s2dbaker
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March 23rd, 2012 at 7:36:33 AM permalink
This is not knowable. Everyone can come up with Oklahoma City, OK but they will not be inclined to produce Coeur d'Alene, ID. The chances of picking each state is not evenly distributed. Without knowing what the individual probabilities are, there's no way to calculate the overarching solution.
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Wizard
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March 23rd, 2012 at 7:42:15 AM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

but they will not be inclined to produce Coeur d'Alene, ID.



Especially because that isn't a capital.

I hope this post doesn't derail the mathematical pursuit of an answer assuming each capital has the same chance.
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s2dbaker
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March 23rd, 2012 at 7:47:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Especially because that isn't a capital.

I hope this post doesn't derail the mathematical pursuit of an answer assuming each capital has the same chance.

D'oh! It's Boise? But that demonstrates in a rather embarrassing way the reason you can't assume each state has the same chance of appearing on a list.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
AZDuffman
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:45:09 AM permalink
Quote: Dween

The are allowed to use a map. Some chose to do so, some did not.

My school is located in Kentucky.



Makes this a little more interesting from the "they may choose border states" thing as I believe KY borders more states than any other.
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Doc
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:49:44 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

... as I believe KY borders more states than any other.


Stupid trivia question: Which states border the fewest other states?
Wizard
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:51:14 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I believe KY borders more states than any other.



Kentucky has 7. Missouri has 8.
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thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 9:30:16 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Stupid trivia question: Which states border the fewest other states?



Alaska and Hawaii have zero US state borders.
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Nareed
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March 23rd, 2012 at 9:38:12 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Quote: Doc

Stupid trivia question: Which states border the fewest other states?



Alaska and Hawaii have zero US state borders.



I assume the question is about a state that does border other states.

Good question. I can't tell without looking at a map.
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MidwestAP
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March 23rd, 2012 at 9:42:58 AM permalink
If that's the criteria, it has to be Maine.
Dween
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March 23rd, 2012 at 10:03:38 AM permalink
CORRECTED POST

Re: Of the contiguous 48 states, the state that borders the fewest other states.
Spoiler:. . . Maine . . .
It's one of those geography trivia bits that I know.

Not to further derail the discussion or anything, but this is one of my favorite trivia stumpers:
Which of the contiguous 48 states juts further north than any other?
Fixed Spoiler:. . . Minnesota - It has a little "nub" of land that seems to poke into Canada . . .
On most maps, Maine may LOOK farther north, but check the lines of lattitude.
-Dween!
dwheatley
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March 23rd, 2012 at 10:14:53 AM permalink
You put the wrong state in the 2nd spoiler. The rationale is correct.
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P90
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March 23rd, 2012 at 10:29:26 AM permalink
Quote: Dween

Re: State that borders the fewest other states.
Spoiler:. . . Maine . . .


How so? I was sure the answer's Hawaii.
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thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 10:39:16 AM permalink
Quote: P90

Quote: Dween

Re: State that borders the fewest other states.
Spoiler:. . . Maine . . .


How so? I was sure the answer's Hawaii.



Or Alaska if you are taking that sort of thing... British Columbia and the Yukon aren't American States :)
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Wizard
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March 23rd, 2012 at 10:46:44 AM permalink
Quote: Dween

Spoiler:. . . Wisconsin - It has a little "nub" of land that seems to poke into Canada . . .
On most maps, Maine may LOOK farther north, but check the lines of lattitude.



Spoiler response: I think you mean Minnesota.
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P90
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:19:45 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Or Alaska if you are taking that sort of thing... British Columbia and the Yukon aren't American States :)


However they are states. You can count them as two, or as one (Canada). Without additional qualifiers, any state counts.
So the answer to that question is Hawaii. If asked more precisely, two answers would be Canada and Hawaii.

It's not even nitpicking. If you were to pick the country with the fewest cities, the winner would be Nauru, not Singapore or Vatican.
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thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:25:37 AM permalink
Quote: P90

However they are states. You can count them as two, or as one (Canada). Without additional qualifiers, any state counts.
So the answer to that question is Hawaii. If asked more precisely, two answers would be Canada and Hawaii.



What!!!! They are not states. One is a Province, and one is a Federal Territory. Canada is a country, not a state.

If you are going to claim a country is a state (and i can see why you might), then any island "state" would fit. Australia. New Zealand
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
P90
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:34:34 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

What!!!! They are not states.

Right. I just wasn't really concerned with that (as it's not important), so went with your reply.

Quote: thecesspit

If you are going to claim a country is a state (and i can see why you might), then any island "state" would fit. Australia. New Zealand


These would also be correct answers to the question. "State" is rather the correct (not just alternate) term for what we usually refer to as "countries".

So we have Hawaii, every island state (country) out there, and likely some other non-sovereign states.
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thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:38:03 AM permalink
Okay, I'll go with that. You win the pedant prize, but that's not a bad thing in my book :)
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
DJTeddyBear
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:42:47 AM permalink
While "state" can also mean "country", this thread was started about the 50 united states.

Also, since our host as well as most members are Americans, it is fair to assume that all discussions about "states" refer to the United States.

Therefore, even if Canada called their areas "states", for the spirit of the question at hand, we're talking about the 50 US states. And, for the question about state borders, then we're talking about the 48 continental states.

By the way, doesn't Mexico call their areas "states" as well?


Any other questions?
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AZDuffman
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March 23rd, 2012 at 11:46:14 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Kentucky has 7. Missouri has 8.




That GD notch.......
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P90
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March 23rd, 2012 at 12:39:16 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

While "state" can also mean "country", this thread was started about the 50 united states.
...
And, for the question about state borders, then we're talking about the 48 continental states.


Agreed with the first, hence didn't go about all the other island countries.

But a further restriction to CONUS is not really implied in any way, neither from the title, nor from the question. (before a more the recent correction.) In any quiz containing a share of trick questions, making assumptions like that would be fatal.
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DJTeddyBear
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March 23rd, 2012 at 12:44:11 PM permalink
P90 -

Um, you got me.

Quote: Doc

Stupid trivia question: Which states border the fewest other states?



For the record, when I made my comment above, I had thought this original question said "Which state ..." i.e. Singular.

When the question is posed in the plural, then the correct answer is Alaska and Hawaii - and that it was a trick question.

When the question is posed in the singular, then it's correct to assume that only one state qualifies. Therefore Alaska and Hawaii are eliminated, leaving the lone state that has a single border with one other state.
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MidwestAP
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March 23rd, 2012 at 12:49:01 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear



When the question is posed in the singular, then it's correct to assume that only one state qualifies. Therefore Alaska and Hawaii are eliminated, leaving the lone state that has a single border with one other state.



So is my response of Maine (about two pages back) not correct?
DJTeddyBear
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March 23rd, 2012 at 12:57:11 PM permalink
Yeah, I think because the original question was plural, Maine is incorrect.
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Doc
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March 23rd, 2012 at 2:15:24 PM permalink
When I posted the question, I had in mind Alaska and Hawaii, with "fewest" being zero. That's why I labeled it "Stupid trivia question".

I considered asking, "What state comes in 3rd in fewest number of other states touching its borders," with the intended answer being Maine, but I decided that question was too cumbersome.

As for which of the contiguous 48 states extends furthest north, I have known the answer to that since I was a kid and we didn't need to included the word "contiguous" in such conversations. However, it was only recently that, being a southern boy, I looked more closely at a map and examined just what that northern extremity really consists of. Have the rest of you looked at that? I'm not coming right out and saying which state, since there might be some who haven't thought about the basic trivia question yet. Instead, I'm asking those who know which state this is about whether they know anything about that most northern chunk of land. I think it is unusual, and the background story would probably be interesting; I just don't know it.
thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 2:51:42 PM permalink
There are six places in the lower 48 states of the US which are not directly connected to the rest of the States by land. Can you name 'em, without cheating?

I thought there was only two, but I was wrong.
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AcesAndEights
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March 23rd, 2012 at 2:55:00 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

There are six places in the lower 48 states of the US which are not directly connected to the rest of the States by land. Can you name 'em, without cheating?

I thought there was only two, but I was wrong.


Unfortunately I'm already cheating as I started reading about them after reading Doc's post above. Interestingly, I've driven by one of these places several times in the past and will have an opportunity to visit again in about a month. I'm actually pretty excited as I'm kind of a geography nerd.
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WongBo
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March 23rd, 2012 at 2:57:48 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

There are six places in the lower 48 states of the US which are not directly connected to the rest of the States by land. Can you name 'em, without cheating?

I thought there was only two, but I was wrong.



florida keys, channel islands california, san juan islands washington...
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thecesspit
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March 23rd, 2012 at 3:01:07 PM permalink
WongBo points out how my question is flawed....


Please add "but are also still part of the mainland of North America".

:) Cheers!
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WongBo
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March 23rd, 2012 at 3:03:23 PM permalink
i know of two: Northwest Angle MN and Alburgh VT
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Doc
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March 23rd, 2012 at 3:21:54 PM permalink
I am familiar with the one I referred to earlier and one in Washington that was in the news not too long ago -- something about the need for passports to ride the school buses. There is certainly the potential for such a thing in the southwest, too, but I don't know of a case. Don't know the others -- hey, I'm a southern boy.
Ayecarumba
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March 23rd, 2012 at 4:06:26 PM permalink
Isn't a chunk of Michigan disconnected across the lake?
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Doc
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March 23rd, 2012 at 4:12:16 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Isn't a chunk of Michigan disconnected across the lake?


Disconnected from the rest of Michigan, yes, but it is connected to Wisconsin, i.e., connected to the other states. There are some islands that are across lake water, but they are not connected by land to the rest of North America (above the water line), so I don't think any of Michigan is an answer to the question.
Toes14
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:36:53 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

That GD notch.......



It's called the bootheel (because it looks like one), and is home to the New Madrid Fault. However, even without the bootheel, Missouri would still touch Tennessee. Mississippi County in Missouri cuts a small piece out of Kentucky and touches Tennessee. To reach the exclave of Kentucky Bend, you have to drive through Tennessee.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on it: Kentucky Bend
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WongBo
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:42:23 PM permalink
your link has an extra backslash in it, which is rendering it invalid...
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Toes14
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:43:10 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

i know of two: Northwest Angle MN and Alburgh VT



I know of Point Roberts, Washington and two in Minnesota at the Lake of the Woods. One is the Northwest Angle, I forget the name of the other. Didn't know about the Vermont one though.
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thecesspit
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March 24th, 2012 at 11:59:48 AM permalink
The answers are :

Point' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://g.co/maps/u7ttq"]Point Roberts, WA
The Northwest Angle, MN
Elm Point, MN (Both around the Lake' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.013351,-73.193257&spn=0.3,0.3&t=m&q=45.013351,-73.193257"]Lake of the Woods)
Alburgh,' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://g.co/maps/4cbc9"]Alburgh, VT
Province' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.013351,-73.193257&spn=0.3,0.3&t=m&q=45.013351,-73.193257"]Province Point, VT(just north of Alburgh, there's a tiny point that dips below the US border on Lake Champlain)
and this unamed place in North' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://maps.google.com/?ll=48.997747,-99.879262&spn=0.012713,0.01914&t=h&z=16"]North Dakota

There are no such exclaves with the Mexican Border that I could find.

Canada has two exclaves with the US, one is Campobello Island, which you can drive to from Maine by bridge, but isn't part of the mainland, so I don't count that.
The other is St Regis, which is part of Akwesasne, a Mohawk nation around the the St. Lawrence.

You could possibly say the whole of the Gaspe, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia is an exclave, as to reach the rest of Canada you have to drive across the St. Lawrence, or drive through the US. Which is the same deal with Alburgh.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Doc
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March 24th, 2012 at 12:51:45 PM permalink
When I said that I felt there must be an interesting story behind that northernmost extension of the 48 states, I was referring to the fact that my atlas seems to indicate that the entire land area in that projection is a Native American tribal land. Is that correct? If so, how did that wind up being a tribal land inside the U.S. border rather than a tribal land inside the Canadian border? How did the border get set to poke up there and include that peninsula?
thecesspit
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March 24th, 2012 at 6:00:57 PM permalink
" thence through Lake Superior Northward of the Isles Royal & Phelipeaux to the Long Lake; Thence through the middle of said Long Lake and the Water Communication between it & the Lake of the Woods, to the said Lake of the Woods; Thence through the said Lake to the most Northwestern Point thereof, and from thence on a due West Course to the river Mississippi; Thence by a Line to be drawn along the Middle of the said river Mississippi until it shall intersect the Northernmost Part..."

From the treaty Of Paris in 1783.

Problem was, the Mississippi doesn't go north of the Lake of the Woods, so they were guessing based on a "Here Be Dragons" type map.

So in 1818, the next convention said :

"Article II set the boundary between British North America and the United States along "a line drawn from the most northwestern point of the Lake of the Woods, [due south, then] along the 49th parallel of north latitude..." to the "Stony Mountains"[3]"

So surveyors went to the Lake of the Woods in 1820's and found the most North-western point of the lake, and discovered it was rather further North than assumed, and chopped of that peninsula.

The Stony Mountains being the Rockies. So that explains the Northwest Angle. Apparently, in 1990's there was a move for the Angle to cede from the US to Canada, but the Indian Reservation who owns a lot of that land were against it.

In the 1840's the Oregon Treaty was signed and we got the 49th Parallel extended until the San Juan Islands, and then around Vancouver Island and up the Juan De Fuca strait. This border around the San Juan islands was disputed between the British and American's, and led to the Pig War (1859), and a stand off for about 12 years. Top fact : the commander in charge at the time of the Pig War in San Juan, one George Pickett, infamous for his charge(*) at Gettysburg.

The Juan De Fuca boundary is still actually disputed between the US and Canada, as is the marine border between the end of the Alaska Pan Handle and Haida Gwaii (The Queen Charlotte's). There's also some resentment about the exact border of the Alaskan pan-handle as well, as the British representative when that was negotiated very much sided with the US rather than the Canadians.

(*) Pickett's charge was ordered by General Lee, and was the movement of an 3 Divisions under Longstreet against the Union forces, Pickett commanding just one division of the three.
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pacomartin
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March 24th, 2012 at 6:11:21 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

When I said that I felt there must be an interesting story behind that northernmost extension of the 48 states, I was referring to the fact that my atlas seems to indicate that the entire land area in that projection is a Native American tribal land. Is that correct? If so, how did that wind up being a tribal land inside the U.S. border rather than a tribal land inside the Canadian border? How did the border get set to poke up there and include that peninsula?



There were a lot of mistakes like that. The famous Mason Dixon Line was drawn up because the charters of Maryland and Pennsylvania set the southern border at 40 degrees latitude. The problem was that the original grants assumed that this latitude would intersect the Twelve-Mile Circle around New Castle which formed the border of Delaware. Since that was not the case, the southern boundary had to be reset at 39°43′20″ North (16 +2/3 nautical miles south).
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