Gambling Addiction in Las Vegas

A good you tube video on the subject.

We all walk that line, don't we ...

video

Quote: MrV

A good you tube video on the subject. We all walk that line, don't we

Don't WE??? Nooooo, WE don't walk that line.
Do you? I really resent crap like this. I've been
going to Vegas since 1975, and local casinos
since the mid 90's. Its a laughable joke to think
I have a gambling problem. If anything, I'm
too conservative. And I know WTF I'm doing,
in spades..

So, bro, don't even try and foist your personal
shit onto us. Everybody who gambles doesn't
have a problem. Far from it..

Quote: EvenBob

Everybody who gambles doesn't
have a problem. Far from it..

Although I agree with this last sentiment, there is nothing phoney here, it is real life. I have found in life [personally] there is little value in being smug about being able to avoid the dangers. For example most drinkers, to isolate something, are playing with fire. I drink. I prefer to recognize I am playing with fire. Your results may vary.

Also, maybe somebody here needs to hear this. The rest can skip it.

Thanks for the link.

Quote: EvenBob

Don't WE??? Nooooo, WE don't walk that line.
Do you? I really resent crap like this. I've been
going to Vegas since 1975, and local casinos
since the mid 90's. Its a laughable joke to think
I have a gambling problem. If anything, I'm
too conservative. And I know WTF I'm doing,
in spades..

So, bro, don't even try and foist your personal
shit onto us. Everybody who gambles doesn't
have a problem. Far from it..

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

17 minute video? Nah.

Next.

Quote: MrV

We all walk that line, don't we ...

Come now. these days an accusation of addiction is like an accusation of witchcraft in the old days. You can't refute it. If you say you're not an addict, then you're in denial, right? So any person who's placed $5 on black is ipso facto a problem gambler now. Good to know.

All who gamble run the potential of becoming addicted.

Most avoid it; some do not.

Same thing with alcohol and drugs.

But enough of the pontificating ...

5,428 posts in two years on WoV? Now that's an addict. Don't deny it! I'm not much better.

Some people have addictive tendencies. I'm one of them. I'm gone back and forth from being a problem gambler and not, but in the end, I've played with fire, and I can tell you from first hand experience that one can become addicted to gambling. I'm not (nor never have been) at the point where I need to go to gambler's anonymous or that it is causing me financial or marital problems because of it, but I've been at the point where gambling has played an overwhelmingly big role in my life. It's been a struggle.

I live in a town with two casinos, and one across the border. I recently was stationed for work in Reno (and was staying at the Peppermill for a few months). Gambling is a huge temptation to me. And I know that I've been guilty of staying too long, spending more than I can afford, and having an unbalanced lifestyle. My presence on this forum is a part of that love of gambling.

We now have a gambling budget (which is a substantial portion of our entertainment budget) which we stick to. We limit our trips to the casinos to once a month and leave the bank cards and credit cards at home. This is the right way to handle gambling. If I didn't have a problem with gambling, the cards would come with us, and I wouldn't have a schedule, as the casino would just be another entertainment activity along with movies, bowling, golf, etc.

Those of you who think that addiction is a bunch a crap are either in denial or hasn't seen it ruin people's lives. Gambling addiction is real. 94 - 97% of gamblers are not addicts - it is a balanced part of their life and is just entertainment. For the other 3 - 6% (who contribute between 30 and 52% of casino revenue), it is a serious problem in their life and they are indeed playing with fire. Gambling problems lead to other addiction, financial and marital problems. It ruins lives.

That doesn't mean that you aren't responsible for your own crap. There should be more money spent on addiction awareness programs, and more (government paid) programs designated to help people out of their addictions. I say "government paid" because they are largely the ones benefiting from the casino's existence.

I know that the Wizard doesn't subscribe to the spiritualness of Gambler's Anonymous, but as the leading source of gambling information on the internet, I think it would be great for him to include a section on problem gambling on WoO 5.0. I'd be happy to write the text for that page.

If you can't control when you gamble or if when you gamble you can't stop at a predetermined stop loss, you probably have a problem. From his posts I would guess that EvenBob is too much of a control freak for that.

Quote: MrV

We all walk that line, don't we ...

I agree. And I'm not afraid to admit it either.

Quote: MrV

All who gamble run the potential of becoming addicted..

This is flat out untrue. Addiction is complicated,
and most people aren't addicted to anything.
The experts say if you're a male and not addicted
to gambling by the age of 21, you probably never
will be. Women are more prone to it than men.
I know lots of people who gamble, none are
addicted to it. Its just not that prevalent. If you
work in a casino, of course you'll see it all the
time. If you work in a tatoo shop, you'll see
lots of tatoos. Doesn't mean everybody wants or
will get a tatoo.

Well, I have known two people addicted to gambling. One filed bankruptcy and discharged about 100k in unsecured debt, largely due to gambling. The other one is always on the verge of losing her house and car. I also know that I have the potential of becoming addicted, and I am glad that I don't live near casinos.

Not everyone has the potential. For instance, I drink a six pack a week, but I'm not walking that line.

Gambling addiction is sad, but gambling is fun recreation for many more people.

I'd like to compliment boymimbo on the post above. I agree that I should address the issue of compulsive gambling; I've just struggled with how to do it. I'll PM you about it.

Quote: MrV

All who gamble run the potential of becoming addicted.

Most avoid it; some do not.

Same thing with alcohol and drugs.

But enough of the pontificating ...

Yeah, I have to disagree with this too. Addiction is by and large a genetic issue. Folks without this displacement have little to worry about. I suspect a great majority of gamblers are these types of people. No matter how much they gamble, addiction is just not going to happen. Addiction isn't some j/p that can strike at any time.

People also confuse addiction and dependancy. In the drug sense, dependancy is more a physical reaction whereas addiction is mental. Many of us are probably dependant on caffeine. If we just stop, chances are we'll have physical repercussions - lethargy, headaches, shakes. Many of us are NOT addicted, we will not suffer paranoia, rage, psychosis.

I think that can be translated into gambling. Some may become dependant, I'd suppose these are the people who say "I just got caught up". Newbies, or guys that go on a good run, can kind of get lost in their gambling, maybe have a run where they go too deep for too long. But, they quickly realize it and take the lesson away with them. That's not addiction. Addiction are the guys that just can't quit. Doesn't matter if you embezzled a GDP or only play pennies, doesn't matter if you ruin your life or just waste some time, self destructive or perfectly functioning, if you CAN NOT QUIT, chances are you're an addict. There are people who will fall into this, but it's very few. And constant exposure alone has little to do with it.

Quote: boymimbo

For the other 3 - 6% (who contribute between 30 and 52% of casino revenue)

I'm curious where you got this statistic. I've read
here and there its 3% who are addicted and they
provide 25% to 30% of casino revenue. Most
addicted gamblers aren't rich, they have very
average jobs. For 3% to contribute 52% of the
95 billion lost in 2009, they'd all have to be very
wealthy, and they're not.

Quote: teddys

I agree. And I'm not afraid to admit it either.

Agree.

I don't have an overall problem with gambling, I have no problem not going to a casino that I can walk to from work. But I've been in the casino and had a problem stopping when I wanted to: after a certain loss amount, or hitting the ATM when I shouldn't. Such are few and far between, and I avoid them be reminding myself how crappy I've felt when I've done it... i.e., it feels crappy to drop $200 in the $5 Wheel of Fortune machine, but IT FEELS A WHOLE LOT CRAPPIER to drop $700 in the $5 WoF.

But the pull is so strong that sometimes I've done it anyhow, and it's been often enough that it's made it easy to ignore the casino that I can walk to from work. And I never had that problem when we used to drive to AC, when Mohegan wasn't right there, because budgeting the money on a trip like that is important lest we be 250 miles from home with no money. With Mohegan right there, and some nice restaurants, Mrs Mosca sometimes calls me at work and suggests we meet there for dinner.

Quote: Mosca

But the pull is so strong that sometimes I've done it anyhow

Can you quit when you're ahead, or do you have to keep
playing till you've lost your BR.

I carefully budget my potential gambling losses. When I blow the budget, I stop. It's all decided before I walk into a Casino and feed that first $20 into a slot machine or buy a stack of chips. -->THIS<-- is my budget and I'll play until midnight or until -->THIS<-- is gone, whichever happens first.

If I'm staying in Las Vegas for 6 days like I'm going to do on the 8th through the 13th, I'll budget for the whole week and divvy it up between the days. I think my gambling budget for the whole week will be $2000 so I'll make the first day a $300 budget day, anything left over may carry to the next day but probably not because I don't like losing more than $300 in a day. I will have some cash left over for Hugo's Cellar and I'll have a good time. If I lose the whole stack, I'll have had a good time. It's a built in trigger that tells me if I have a "problem" and so far, I've never come close to crossing that line.

That's how it works for me and I've never gambled more than I can afford. Even with that paltry budget, I still get comp'd at the Rio for the entire stay.

Quote: EvenBob

Can you quit when you're ahead, or do you have to keep
playing till you've lost your BR.

I've played until I've lost my BR, and swore loudly, and then I waited until the pissed-offedness went away and I left before re-upping. Maybe 2-3 times in 10 years, out of probably 1000 sessions or so. As far as CAN I quit before I've lost it all, sure. I have good discipline in regard to that. And I have no "casino urge" at all. Mrs Mosca goes without me, often, but I NEVER go without her. I'd rather go to a game, or read.

Quote: MrV

All who gamble run the potential of becoming addicted.

Are you sure? It sounds like a good line, but there's a big difference between the unavoidable physical addiction caused by, say, narcotics and the psychological addiction experienced by problem gamblers. You seem to suggest that all gamblers are potential addicts, and I don't believe the current psychological research supports that position. Do you have a reference?

Quote: MathExtremist

You seem to suggest that all gamblers are potential addicts,

Self destructive tendencies and gambling addiction
go hand and hand. An older friend of mine describes
himself as a 'nose cutter', he'll cut off his nose to spite
his face every time. Until he started taking medication
for depression 10 years ago, it was a mistake to go
to a casino with him. He wouldn't leave until his access
to money was exhausted. If he was winning, he'd play
even faster, trying to lose it all. You couldn't beg him
to leave. Then he'd piss and moan all the way home
about what a pathetic loser he was, how he was crap.
On meds now, he has no desire to even go to a casino.

When you actually see someone in that losing frenzy, its
very scary. He would sit at the same slot for hours, betting
the $3 max. In a trance, he wouldn't even answer if you
asked a question. And he has an IQ in the upper 160's.

I just -knew- you and MKL654321 -were- buddies from way back ;)

Quote: MathExtremist

...but there's a big difference between the unavoidable physical addiction caused by, say, narcotics and the psychological addiction experienced by problem gamblers.

Just so we don't get tripped up on terms (like Doc and weasel discussing weight) the "unavoidable physical addiction" is dependency, not techinically addiction. As part of my pain regiment, I am "dependant" on opioids. When I "clean out", I will have physical repercussions (nervous energy, itchiness) but I won't feen out, won't rage, won't stoop to scoring some smack. There is no mental connection and neither my personality nor my priorities will change. Addiction is the psychological, the flipping of the switch, where you have an irresistable compulsion to do something.

And when it comes to addiction, the mental processes is quite similar, whether we're talking cocaine, Craps, calories or coitus. The American Society of Addiction Medicine's defines it as "a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry." That applies to anything which gives us pleasure (reward) whether it's drugs, gambling, video games, sex, chocolate, pain, material possessions, excercise, what have you.

Quote: thecesspit

I just -knew- you and

I never saw him win, he always left a loser.
Yet when he went without me, he always
reported he won, and won a lot. Always.
Addiction, lying, denial. Charming stuff.

He also did it with candy. He's go the store
after dinner and buy a pound of assorted
candy, and sit in his car and eat all of it. Self
destructive behavior.

Quote: EvenBob

This is flat out untrue. Addiction is complicated,
and most people aren't addicted to anything.
The experts say if you're a male and not addicted
to gambling by the age of 21, you probably never
will be. Women are more prone to it than men.
I know lots of people who gamble, none are
addicted to it. Its just not that prevalent. If you
work in a casino, of course you'll see it all the
time. If you work in a tatoo shop, you'll see
lots of tatoos. Doesn't mean everybody wants or
will get a tatoo.

If addiction is complicated, how can you flat out insist that some who gamble are immune to it? It is not complicated to you? You understand just how and why certain gamblers cannot become addicted? Can you list a few of the dead giveaway traits possessed by the lucky immunes?

Quote: s2dbaker

I carefully budget my potential gambling losses. When I blow the budget, I stop. It's all decided before I walk into a Casino and feed that first $20 into a slot machine or buy a stack of chips. -->THIS<-- is my budget and I'll play until midnight or until -->THIS<-- is gone, whichever happens first.

If I'm staying in Las Vegas for 6 days like I'm going to do on the 8th through the 13th, I'll budget for the whole week and divvy it up between the days. I think my gambling budget for the whole week will be $2000 so I'll make the first day a $300 budget day, anything left over may carry to the next day but probably not because I don't like losing more than $300 in a day. I will have some cash left over for Hugo's Cellar and I'll have a good time. If I lose the whole stack, I'll have had a good time. It's a built in trigger that tells me if I have a "problem" and so far, I've never come close to crossing that line.

That's how it works for me and I've never gambled more than I can afford. Even with that paltry budget, I still get comp'd at the Rio for the entire stay.

That budget doesn't seem paltry to me, or probably, many.

Quote: dm

Can you list a few of the dead giveaway traits possessed by the lucky immunes?

Gambling has nothing to do with the addiction. Gambling
is just a way the addiction manifests itself. My friend has
an addictive personality. He can get addicted to almost
anything given half a chance. The vast VAST majority
of people don't have addictive personalities, they could
gamble for 50 years and never get addicted to it. Its not
the gambling, its the person. The gambling has nothing
to do with anything.

Quote: EvenBob

Self destructive tendencies and gambling addiction
go hand and hand. An older friend of mine describes
himself as a 'nose cutter', he'll cut off his nose to spite
his face every time. Until he started taking medication
for depression 10 years ago, it was a mistake to go
to a casino with him. He wouldn't leave until his access
to money was exhausted. If he was winning, he'd play
even faster, trying to lose it all. You couldn't beg him
to leave. Then he'd piss and moan all the way home
about what a pathetic loser he was, how he was crap.
On meds now, he has no desire to even go to a casino.

When you actually see someone in that losing frenzy, its
very scary. He would sit at the same slot for hours, betting
the $3 max. In a trance, he wouldn't even answer if you
asked a question. And he has an IQ in the upper 160's.

So, the people who are immune to addictions better, by your own statement, be, first, immune to depression. Tell us how the lucky ones get all those immunities.

Quote: dm

So, the people who are immune to addictions

Addiction isn't a disease you 'catch', like a cold. You
don't walk into a casino without the addiction and
catch it while you're there. Gambling is a symptom of
a condition you already have.

While it's true that there are addictive personalities that are prone, there are plenty of problem gamblers that are not addicted to anything else. There are many, many studies that show that problem gamblers also are much more likely to struggle with drugs, alcohol, and other addictions in their life. However, the number is not 100% -- it's just more likely. Some people get hooked to escape their lives, to relieve anxiery or depression, or because they are lonely.

The act of pressing that button, of scratching off that lotto ticket, of checking your draw tickets, all release dopamine. That repeated release that you get into a casino, especially a slot machine, is similar to taking drugs. It's a hit, every few seconds, that is magnified when you win and leaves you longing for the big release when you lose. One will argue that food will release dopamine too, but you know what, if you eat every few seconds you have a problem. One will argue that sex releases dopamine (it most certaintly does), but unless you're taking alot of Viagara (at my age), have a willing partner, and lots of lube, you have a problem. One will argue that exercise releases dopamine too, and at least that's healthy, but of course, you wear out after a while (in the Wizard's case, 13 miles).
No, it's not a chemical dependency like drugs are as the withdrawal is just a feeling of emptiness and depression.

After a while, sitting at the machine for a couple of hours, you know that you're never going to make up for the money that you lose. You know that you should go home. You know that you shouldn't play anymore. You know that you can't afford it. But you play anyway, knowing full well that 2-7 percent cents of that $1.60 or $2.50 is leaving you on every draw or spin. And when you're done, you go home, try to figure out how you're going to pay the mortgage/phone bill/car payment, and feel shame. You swear you won't go back until you have lots of money in the bank, or out of debt, or whatever. You tell yourself you'll do something else with your time, like work harder, go to the gym, write on this forum, watch movies, etc.

But you lather, rinse, repeat, and the next weekend / day, you're back at the casino again, doing exactly the same thing. You're hooked. You justify it by the free meal on your player's card, by the $30 in free play that the casino mailed you for losing so much, or that some time a year ago you won a big jackpot. Or maybe you had a stressful day: your ex-wife called you, you got some bad news. Or maybe you had a good day: you just got a promotion. Whatever the excuse is a justification. You'll leave your cards at home and just take out a few hundred dollars, but hey, the missus has her credit card in the car. Woo hoo.

Quote: EvenBob

Addiction isn't a disease you 'catch', like a cold. You
don't walk into a casino without the addiction and
catch it while you're there. Gambling is a symptom of
a condition you already have.

Quite true. Addiction is a "mental disorder", for lack of a less offensive term. It's genetics, it's a hand you're dealt. Some people get it bad, and find addiction problems in many areas. Some just have certain triggers. Some won't have any at all.

Edit: Great post, boymimbo. That is a typical story of addiction; substitute drinking, drugging, etc in there and the song remains the same.

I hope my posts aren't serving to minimze the danger of the problem, because it undoubtably exists. I just wish to quell the exteme thoughts, like everyone who gambles is in danger. Your post is a prime example of things to look out for, the warning signs.

Quote: boymimbo

While it's true that there are addictive personalities that are prone, there are plenty of problem gamblers that are not addicted to anything else..

Again, so what? So they have mental health issues,
how is that my problem. If they weren't addicted
to gambling, they'd be addicted to something else.
Are we supposed to treat them, or make sure all
the things they could get addicted to are banned
from society.

Who the heck said it was your problem?

Quote: Face

Addiction is a "mental disorder", for lack of a less offensive term.

A "mental disorder," eh?

What, sort of like being a drunk is a "mental disorder" also?

No, there is no "disorder" there, no true mental illness like schizophrenia.

Character flaw and individual weakness, maybe.

Quote: MrV

A "mental disorder," eh?>>What, sort of like being a drunk is a "mental disorder" also?

Yup, gambling addiction is an impulse control disorder, look it
up. Chemical dependancy is not the same thing. Non chemical
addictions are hardly character flaws, they are full blown mental
disorder's, just like kleptomania or pyromania. Thats why you
can't 'catch it', you've either got it or you don't.

Quote: MrV

A "mental disorder," eh?

What, sort of like being a drunk is a "mental disorder" also?

No, there is no "disorder" there, no true mental illness like schizophrenia.

Character flaw and individual weakness, maybe.

Indeed, for lack of a better word to use. What else would you call a compulsion to do something that you know destroys you? Realize "mental disorder" covers a library of issues, from schizo to anxiety to body dismorphic to phobias to ADHD to sadism to tourettes to insomnia to mania to anorexia, and yes, even addiction.

It is no more a character flaw or weakness than is any other ailment. Thinking in this manner and promoting this mindset is damaging to those who may need help, and are scared out of it for not wanting to appear "weak". It's a common problem among addicts.

There's a wealth of knowledge about addiction from the ASAM found here ASAM info

I'm sorry, but addicts are, at least by MY definition, "weak."

Also "abnormal," "lame," and "self-indulgent."

Quote: MrV

I'm sorry, but addicts are, at least by MY definition, "weak."

Also "abnormal," "lame," and "self-indulgent."

And that's fine. It's actually a very common stance to take, I would say a majority of those who have an opinion have this same one. The only other opinions are those who have no interest, and those who've either dealt with it and sought treatment, or that have educated themselves about it and now know otherwise.

I had weaknesses, sure. Still have some. If <50% of people are addicts, then by definition I'm abnormal. Self indulgent? You betcha. Also impulsive, irresponsible, self-destructive. Ignorant, immoral, self absorbed, selfish. That's all a part of who I was, but that's not what I am.

I'm just a dude with a genetic disposition, that made some bad choices, and was too stupid and too lazy to fix them. Thankfully, I woke up. Many don't. You can't force anybody to do anything, and drink, drugs and Don't bettors aren't going anywhere. The only thing you can do is educate, which has hopefully been done in some small part here. Opinions are fine, I'm just glad you stated your comments as such.

Quote: MrV

I'm sorry, but addicts are, at least by MY definition, "weak."

Of course they are, their addiction has got
the better of them, the addiction controls
them, not the other way around. Thats the
very nature of addiction, weakness. In that
sense, casinos are no better than opium
dens, they cater to the weakest in society.
They exploit those who can't control themselves,
they bleed them dry. Casinos are the Darkside
to many people, evil incarnate.

Quote: EvenBob

Gambling has nothing to do with the addiction. Gambling
is just a way the addiction manifests itself. My friend has
an addictive personality. He can get addicted to almost
anything given half a chance. The vast VAST majority
of people don't have addictive personalities, they could
gamble for 50 years and never get addicted to it. Its not
the gambling, its the person. The gambling has nothing
to do with anything.

Same with my brother. He was an addict who cleaned himself up and became a drug and alcohol counselor. I once asked him if he wanted to go to a casino with us, and he replied, "No way. As soon as I see those lights and hear the bells, something happens. My mind goes blank, and I won't be able to stop. If I go into a casino, I won't leave until I've lost every cent, and mortgaged the house and sold the car."

Jim had it pretty bad as an addict. I was a habitual user who stopped, he was an alcoholic who could never even have cough syrup in the house. That made him a very effective counselor; at his funeral were hundreds of recovering addicts who wanted to tell us (Jim's family) how much he'd helped them.

I agree with EvenBob on this one. It's the person, and gambling just happens to be what they get addicted to.

Indeed, Mosca. It's absolutely up to the person.

Quote: boymimbo

Indeed, Mosca. It's absolutely up to the person.

Thing is... it is, and it also isn't at the same time. He didn't get to pick that he was wired to become addicted to things. But he also had to understand that the only way around it was a lifetime of vigilance. It's not about strength and weakness, it's about results. That's why the focus is on day at a time, hour at a time, sometimes even seconds at a time.

Those who call it a weakness are right only in the sense that there aren't adequate words for the condition. And strength isn't the right word for the solution. It's a "weakness" that the self is incapable of defending against, that no amount of "strength" can help. The solution is that never ending vigilance, that even willpower can't help with, which is why all these people have each other's contact numbers and the promise to be available 24/7/365.

We are "ugly bags of mostly water." In most cases our chemistry and biology will do a fine job of controlling the bag, in some cases it won't... it can't.

Quote: Mosca

It's a "weakness" that the self is incapable of defending against, that no amount of "strength" can help. The solution is that never ending vigilance, that even willpower can't help with...

For some, not all.

For example, I smoked for years, and decided one day to just STOP: and I did, using will power alone.

Same thing with alcohol: I decided to STOP, and did, immediately, without any 12 step programs, etc.

How then was I able to suddenly and immediately end my regular participation in both of these strongly addictive behaviors, given your statement that "It's a "weakness" that the self is incapable of defending against, that no amount of "strength" can help?"

Quote: MrV

For some, not all.

For example, I smoked for years, and decided one day to just STOP: and I did, using will power alone.

Same thing with alcohol: I decided to STOP, and did, immediately, without any 12 step programs, etc.

How then was I able to suddenly and immediately end my regular participation in both of these strongly addictive behaviors, given your statement that "It's a "weakness" that the self is incapable of defending against, that no amount of "strength" can help?"

Yeah. "For some, not all." I don't know, MrV. I think it's just different. I know what you're saying, though.

I quit smoking without any help. I quit drugs without any help. I did both with minimal backsliding; smoking was harder, it took several tries before it stuck. Drugs was pretty much, "Today is the day I quit this shit." It was a long time ago. I smoked some pot in Jamaica about 7 years later, just to see what it was like and I hated it. And cocaine had a resurgence in the mid '80s, that caught me, but I quit it the same way.

I don't have an answer because it's not my area of expertise. But Jim was different from me and you. He truly couldn't control it. All I can say is that if it was an easy problem with a simple answer it would have been solved by now.

Some people do heroin for decades but never become strung out or addicted.

"Its the person not the drug"... yet they all go to these 12 step group nonsense meetings wherein they learn "I am helpless".

Addicts probably have it hard. Many times its the "addict lifestyle" that traps them. One guy gets off drugs but heck he has no friends and certainly no girlfriends in the world of the straight and narrow. And he doesn't live in an area where its anything but druggies and drug dealers.

Gambling in Vegas is all over the place. It must be rough there to stay out of the casinos and the supermarkets and the barber shops.

I have a feeling that the "second buy in" is more affected by alcohol than the desire to gamble but its still something that requires an effort. I've seen a man gamble his monthly disability check away at a minibacc table, I've seen a woman gamble her mortgage payment at blackjack and not even know basic strategy. Yet these are the people who were none too bright to begin with.

Quit smoking? One man totaled up the math and quit instantly with nary a bit of backsliding. Its not hard to quit. It may be hard for some to want to quit, but its not hard to do it.

Teenage girls see a new movie and suddenly they've changed their hair and their fashions. Its not hard to change their drug habits as well, they just don't want to.

Quote: MrV

How then was I able to suddenly and immediately end my regular participation in both of these strongly addictive behaviors, given your statement that "It's a "weakness" that the self is incapable of defending against, that no amount of "strength" can help?"

Quote: FleaStiff

Its not hard to change their drug habits as well, they just don't want to.

That's a difficult question to answer, MrV. I was the same way with many things. The side effects of LSD use became worse than the high, so I quit just like that. I got into coke when an inner city dealer with prime stuff came to town and was in it hard for almost a year. When he left, the prices tripled overnight, and I stopped right then and there. When I realized my drinking caused three straight nights of bad decision making, I decided there wouldn't be a fourth and quit on the spot. Booze and cocaine are high on the list of addictive substances, but I quit at the drop of a hat with no psychological issues.

Weed, on the other hand, was my kryptonite. Quitting that was like quitting heroin. I got the shakes, the cold sweats, the nightmares, the insomnia. I followed right down the addiction process of bargaining, denying, greifing, all over a drug that has been long stated to be "non-addictive". Why was I fine quitting coke but wanted to die quitting weed? That's just how my brain was wired. FleaStiff's comment of "they just don't want to" is true, but it's more in depth. It's not like not wanting to wash the dishes. Addiction changes your brain chemistry, it literally shuffles your survival instincts. Seeing a smackhead or tweaker in a state of emaciation is evidence of this. Your or my survival instinct is led by such things as food, water, shelter. The addicts is led by their drug. They "don't want to quit" in the same way a sober person "doesn't want to starve".

People are just different, the mind hopelessly complicated. Some are hardcore like those mentioned by Bob and Mosca. Some are like me, vulnerable to certain things. And there's some like you, that either have no issues, or can put a stop to their issues with no problem whatsoever.

Quote: FleaStiff

Gambling in Vegas is all over the place. It must be rough there to stay out of the casinos and the supermarkets and the barber shops.

Problem gambing in Nevada is by far the highest in the nation due to the length of time gambling has been a mainstay in the state (plus it attracts people from outside of state). Youth is now at risk for gambling problems. There are studies that show the incidence of problem gambling among the young is triple the national rate. I think this is due to the acceptance of gambling within society, the popularity of Texas hold'em on the net, and the availability of gambling (for fun) on the net.