AZDuffman
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April 29th, 2011 at 8:26:59 PM permalink
While dealing a monte carlo event a female player insisted she saw a story about a 20 year dealer in Vegas who could, blindfolded, tell if the card in his hand was a face card or not, based on weight. The difference being that face cards take more ink and his hands were so sensitive he could tell the micro-difference in weight. She said they opened several decks from different manufacturers and he could always tell. My thought is that it was total BS and, if it was on TV, he had a trick. The weight difference would be so little, and add to that the fact that dealers rarely handle one card at a time via holding it in their hand and looking at it, etc.

But, has anyone else seen this on TV? I will add to this that the dal was a blonde with a few drinks in her. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.........
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rdw4potus
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April 29th, 2011 at 8:33:55 PM permalink
I would think that with casino cards, the extra ink in the corners of aces and faces (and 10s) might have a different texture?
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Wizard
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April 29th, 2011 at 9:21:28 PM permalink
Somewhere, somehow, I heard about people who could do this. Maybe it is just an urban legend. Sorry I'm not of much help.
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FleaStiff
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April 29th, 2011 at 9:30:11 PM permalink
How would any one dealer obtain enough feedback to develop such a sensitive touch?

A miniscule amount of ink difference yet someone can determine it by hand?

I remain skeptical of the entire notion. Though I would like to test anyone with that sensitive a touch on some nearby bank vaults.
pacomartin
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April 29th, 2011 at 9:41:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Somewhere, somehow, I heard about people who could do this. Maybe it is just an urban legend. Sorry I'm not of much help.



I've seen this trick in a book, but not blindfolded. The con artist pre-arranges the deck so that all the face cards are pointed in one direction. He then hams it up by pretending to feel the weight of the card.

The first card you may not now since the cards may have been turned around. Also you can make it more believable by letting someone shuffle the deck. Normally people who shuffle don't mix up the cards the way professionals do. Guess it is a number card since statistically you are more likely to be correct. If wrong then play it off by offering to double the bet. Once you know the first card you can be certain of the orientation.

Clearly you need to do this trick with cards that have an orientation on the back.


But with the blindfold added, that adds a wrinkle. The obvious techniques are cheating by peeking or having a fake deck with flocking so that you can feel the orientation.
rxwine
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April 29th, 2011 at 10:29:59 PM permalink
While people can develop all sorts of odd esoteric skills if they practice something long enough (years probably) I kinda doubt anyone could detect such a small difference of weight. I'm heavily in the skeptic camp. I mean, Houdini did learn to swallow and regurgitate at will, key picking devices by using a potato peel on a string to practice, so a lot of things are possible. But i just don't think so on this. More practical to develop the illusion.
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odiousgambit
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April 30th, 2011 at 2:19:46 AM permalink
I was just at the "Louisville Slugger" baseball bat factory in Louisville KY and they featured a story that a famous baseball player [Dimaggio?] had bats made to his specifications and sent back a set saying something was wrong. They found that the diameter of the bat where gripped was off by 5 thousandths of an inch from specs. Evidently he could detect that, so maybe someone can detect that card weight difference too. My gut says it is a card trick though.
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SOOPOO
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April 30th, 2011 at 3:41:21 AM permalink
You guys are all wrong. After smashing the casino by dice setting, mauling the casino with an infallible roulette system, that same player rapes the casino by 'ink weight hustling'.....
pacomartin
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April 30th, 2011 at 3:52:23 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

While people can develop all sorts of odd esoteric skills if they practice something long enough (years probably) I kinda doubt anyone could detect such a small difference of weight. I'm heavily in the skeptic camp. I mean, Houdini did learn to swallow and regurgitate at will, key picking devices by using a potato peel on a string to practice, so a lot of things are possible. But i just don't think so on this. More practical to develop the illusion.



Please stop talking about this con as serious skill.
Paigowdan
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April 30th, 2011 at 4:06:52 AM permalink
I doubt you can manually determine the weight difference.

Interesting factoid though:

Older Asian dice where the pips are polished or ground out of the dice, the "ace" side single pip is largest, the pips on the "two" side are mid-sized, going up to the "six" side, where the dug out pips are small.
This is so that the same amount of material is removed from each side of a die, so the die is in balance, - and not accidentally weighted.
The miniscule weight difference would have an effect over very many rolls if not done, forcing the ace and the two to occur more frequently, and the 5 and 6 to be rarer.
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JimMorrison
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April 30th, 2011 at 4:57:13 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I was just at the "Louisville Slugger" baseball bat factory in Louisville KY and they featured a story that a famous baseball player [Dimaggio?] had bats made to his specifications and sent back a set saying something was wrong. They found that the diameter of the bat where gripped was off by 5 thousandths of an inch from specs. Evidently he could detect that, so maybe someone can detect that card weight difference too. My gut says it is a card trick though.



I remember that story too. Was it DiMaggio? I thought it was Ted Williams but I easily could be wrong.
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AZDuffman
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April 30th, 2011 at 5:34:13 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I was just at the "Louisville Slugger" baseball bat factory in Louisville KY and they featured a story that a famous baseball player [Dimaggio?] had bats made to his specifications and sent back a set saying something was wrong. They found that the diameter of the bat where gripped was off by 5 thousandths of an inch from specs. Evidently he could detect that, so maybe someone can detect that card weight difference too. My gut says it is a card trick though.



This one I can somewhat believe. Athletes get a very good feel for their tools. I remember a NHL Playoff game where a player was penalized for an illegal stick the blade being too wide (top to bottom, not "thick.") How was he caught? Another player asked it be checked. He guessed it was an illegal size when he felt it; his hand getting a small piece of it during play. If you consider that was for a fraction of a second, imagine a bat you can examine or hold.

As to the cards, everyone here seems to be saying what I was thinking, not possible. Though if anyone did see it on TV please say where. Would be nice to know in case it comes up from another player.
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SOOPOO
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April 30th, 2011 at 5:41:23 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: odiousgambit

I was just at the "Louisville Slugger" baseball bat factory in Louisville KY and they featured a story that a famous baseball player [Dimaggio?] had bats made to his specifications and sent back a set saying something was wrong. They found that the diameter of the bat where gripped was off by 5 thousandths of an inch from specs. Evidently he could detect that, so maybe someone can detect that card weight difference too. My gut says it is a card trick though.



This one I can somewhat believe. Athletes get a very good feel for their tools. I remember a NHL Playoff game where a player was penalized for an illegal stick the blade being too wide (top to bottom, not "thick.") How was he caught? Another player asked it be checked. He guessed it was an illegal size when he felt it; his hand getting a small piece of it during play. If you consider that was for a fraction of a second, imagine a bat you can examine or hold.

As to the cards, everyone here seems to be saying what I was thinking, not possible. Though if anyone did see it on TV please say where. Would be nice to know in case it comes up from another player.



That has occurred more than once. As a fan in the stands I could see that certain players' sticks were too curvy. It had absolutely nothing to do with another player touching it. Also, I have seen hockey sticks requested to be checked that did pass specs. The NHL now will penalize YOUR team if you request a stick be checked and it does conform to specifications.
Wizard
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April 30th, 2011 at 6:02:48 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I've seen this trick in a book, but not blindfolded. The con artist pre-arranges the deck so that all the face cards are pointed in one direction. He then hams it up by pretending to feel the weight of the card.



Yeah! I should have thought of that. You don't need the obviously non-symmetrical cards in your example either. This could be done by "edge sorting" ordinary casino cards. DorothyGale is an expert on it. I'll try to do an demonstration at WOVcon.
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AZDuffman
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April 30th, 2011 at 6:08:09 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yeah! I should have thought of that. You don't need the obviously non-symmetrical cards in your example either. This could be done by "edge sorting" ordinary casino cards. DorothyGale is an expert on it. I'll try to do an demonstration at WOVcon.



That would be interesting to see.

BTW: On the example she noted, the guy did not have a chance to sort or even touch the cards before. She said it was all new, factory-sealed decks opened then and there.
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pacomartin
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April 30th, 2011 at 8:15:14 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

That would be interesting to see.

BTW: On the example she noted, the guy did not have a chance to sort or even touch the cards before. She said it was all new, factory-sealed decks opened then and there.



Since this is a variation of a common trick, I cannot believe that what you are talking about is real. I wish there was a source.
AZDuffman
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April 30th, 2011 at 8:19:47 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Since this is a variation of a common trick, I cannot believe that what you are talking about is real. I wish there was a source.



I agree, which is why I brought it up to see if anyone else heard of it. As I like to hear about some "systems" just to be able to explain the flaws in them if they come up I would like to know the real deal here. Perhaps she heard about it from some guy at a bar who also worked for the CIA undercover. She looked like she will be a nice cougar in a few years.

Chicks that have several drinks in them are not the easiest to probe for additional info I am afraid.........
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rdw4potus
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April 30th, 2011 at 9:43:20 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

That would be interesting to see.

BTW: On the example she noted, the guy did not have a chance to sort or even touch the cards before. She said it was all new, factory-sealed decks opened then and there.



How did they pick the card that he identified? New, sealed decks are in order. Maybe he could tell by the depth of their cut what the card was likely to be?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
AZDuffman
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April 30th, 2011 at 10:10:35 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

How did they pick the card that he identified? New, sealed decks are in order. Maybe he could tell by the depth of their cut what the card was likely to be?



Just heard "new, sealed decks." I assume they gave him a face and nonface card and he compared. If it happened.
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reno
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May 3rd, 2011 at 7:59:28 AM permalink
Interesting thread. Anecdote: music producer Brian Eno said that he once had an argument with U2 drummer Larry Mullen, Jr. who was upset because the metronome in their recording studio was slightly off. Eno told him this was impossible, because the metronome wasn't mechanical, it was computer-generated. Mullen stubbornly refused to play drums that day, and stormed off. Later, Eno investigated and realized that the metronome was indeed off by 2 milliseconds! (a millisecond is a one-thousandth of a second.)
kp
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May 3rd, 2011 at 8:35:10 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Chicks that have several drinks in them are not the easiest to probe



It may be your technique.
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