Oriental as a word
The term South Asian is very uncommon in the United States. The preferred term is now Asian although there it defacto means East Asian in common speech. To the census bureau, Asian means East Asian, Southeast Asian, and Indian subcontinent.
The term Middle East is more common than West Asia in the USA.
Oriental has become slightly old fashioned, bordering on negative in the USA. While not a racial slur it is now lumped with Eskimo, and Redman and other old fashioned terms.
I am not sure what the status of the n-word is now in the UK. It is my understanding that in Australia and Hong Kong it still retains it's older use as a color. However, as American hip hop culture is such is so widely commercialized, it is difficult for me to to believe that there are too many people who are unaware of it's connotations in America.
Quote: pacomartinMy understanding of the word Oriental is that it has no negative connotations in the United Kingdom, and is freely used instead of East Asian to distinguish between East Asian people and South Asian people.
The term South Asian is very uncommon in the United States. The preferred term is now Asian although there it defacto means East Asian in common speech. To the census bureau, Asian means East Asian, Southeast Asian, and Indian subcontinent.
The term Middle East is more common than West Asia in the USA.
Oriental has become slightly old fashioned, bordering on negative in the USA. While not a racial slur it is now lumped with Eskimo, and Redman and other old fashioned terms.
Where I used to work a (white) woman asked a guy not to use "oriental" and instead use Asian. He just kind of defused the situation and asked about using "chinaman." I had never heard anyone say "oriental" was negative. I can simply state that in the USA the more oppresed an ethnic groop feels (or the more sorry they seem to feel for themselves) the more often they seem to demand that the "preferred name" change. It may sound as a very un-PC statement but it is true.
Kicker is that many of the people in the group could not care less about the new, "trendy" name. There was an uproar on the left that the Census Bureau was sitll using "negro" as an ethnic group, one of many on a single choice (ie: african-american, black, negro....) and a few older blacks said they still used the term in self description and what on earth was the uproar about?
Considering that the Census Bureau is made up of lefty government worker types, I think your characterization of "uproar on the left" is a wee bit too broad.Quote: AZDuffman..There was an uproar on the left that the Census Bureau was sitll using "negro" as an ethnic group, one of many on a single choice (ie: african-american, black, negro....) and a few older blacks said they still used the term in self description and what on earth was the uproar about?
Quote: s2dbakerConsidering that the Census Bureau is made up of lefty government worker types, I think your characterization of "uproar on the left" is a wee bit too broad.
I consider the readers of this board intelligent enough to read such a statement in the way it was intended and not as a literal "every person on the left was upset."
You give us too much credit. When I see someone write "uproar on the left", I visualize more then half the nation holding pitchforks and torches in search of Sarah Palin's limousine.Quote: AZDuffmanI consider the readers of this board intelligent enough to read such a statement in the way it was intended and not as a literal "every person on the left was upset."
Quote: AZDuffmanI can simply state that in the USA the more oppresed an ethnic groop feels (or the more sorry they seem to feel for themselves) the more often they seem to demand that the "preferred name" change. It may sound as a very un-PC statement but it is true.
The dominant ethnic/racial group probably make that antrhopological insight all the time the world over. Although, who knows, maybe not. I'm just sayin'.
Quote: s2dbakerIn literary context, Oriental is simply the opposite of Occidental. But considering that there are some white supremacy groups that have taken on the name Occidental, I can see where the word Oriental could become irritating especially if one is aware of the hatred associated with it.
Many of these words do not have anything inherently insulting about them. No one thinks of the phrase "Western World" as anything racist. Many people think the word Asian is meaningless as it applies to more than 2/3 of the population of the world and covers a lot of indigenous groups. There are people who object to the term "sub-saharan" since they think that the term sub has negative connotations.
It's why I asked the question. I was particularly curious about people not from the US.
Quote: s2dbakerYou give us too much credit. When I see someone write "uproar on the left", I visualize more then half the nation holding pitchforks and torches in search of Sarah Palin's limousine.
What??? She has a limousine? grrrrrrr
I thought the term Oriental is only used properly these days to describe rugs.
Quote: zippyboyI have long thought Asian women are hot. But when I voice it out loud to someone, he asks "You mean Japanese? Vietnamese?" Hell, I don't know. I'm white. Asian women are hot.
I thought the term Oriental is only used properly these days to describe rugs.
I prefer "Oriental" to "Asian" as the former is more descriptive. "Asian" could mean Mongolian or Iranian or parts of Russia. "Oriental" is more confined to the paciffic rim area as I understand it.
As to Asian Women being hot, I wish I would have tried to teach english in Japan right out of college. American men are considered exotic over there I am told. One guy I talked to said male english teachers get approached al the time. With the dollar as weak as it was then, wow.
As to other countries, guys I talked to in the military said it is next to impossible to be stationed in the Phillipines and come back still single.
Quote: zippyboyI have long thought Asian women are hot. But when I voice it out loud to someone, he asks "You mean Japanese? Vietnamese?" Hell, I don't know. I'm white. Asian women are hot.
There are good-looking women in every part of the wrold. What varies is how exotic a given set of regional characteristics are in relation to what you're used to, and what specific aspects of a woman you find attractive.
So, in the case of "Asian" women, the most prevalent characteristics throughout Asia are straight dark hair, dark eyes and light-brown skin. For Japanese, korean (prety much the same thing BTW), Chinese, Vietnamese, etc kind of women, they tend to be petite as well. If you find those traits attractive, and you aren't used to seeing them, you'd condlude a good-looking Asian woman is hot.
Quote: AZDuffman
As to other countries, guys I talked to in the military said it is next to impossible to be stationed in the Phillipines and come back still single.
I know a guy that happened to 40 years ago. She was a beauty when he brought her home, now she looks like a Marine drill sargeant.
And she runs her family like one.
Quote: NareedFor Japanese, korean (prety much the same thing BTW)...
Don't tell a Korean that (s)he's pretty much the same as Japanese. There's a high level aminosity between the two countries. Or at least there was when I travelled to South Korea 15 years ago.
Quote: thecesspitDon't tell a Korean that (s)he's pretty much the same as Japanese. There's a high level aminosity between the two countries. Or at least there was when I travelled to South Korea 15 years ago.
I know. We had a South Korean supplier for some time several years ago. I read up on Korea and leaned that. among other things. Korea was once dominated by Japan, so they've got reasons.
In any case, like it or not, the Japanese are descended mostly from Korean stock.
Quote: AZDuffman
As to other countries, guys I talked to in the military said it is next to impossible to be stationed in the Phillipines and come back still single.
Or, as my Navy friend would put it: "I love you no shit American GI! Take me to land of Navy Exchange and buy me air-conditioned Honda car."
Quote: EvenBobI know a guy that happened to 40 years ago. She was a beauty when he brought her home, now she looks like a Marine drill sargeant.
And she runs her family like one.
EvenBob's autobiography?
Quote: thecesspitDon't tell a Korean that (s)he's pretty much the same as Japanese. There's a high level aminosity between the two countries.
The Japanese don't like anybody, try living in Hawaii. I lived there for a year and there are tons of Japs everywhere, they thought they were going to get it in WWII, now they just pretend they did. They don't like anybody and nobody likes them. I've never seen a place with more prejudice, nobody gets along with anybody outside their own nationality.
Quote: EvenBobThe Japanese don't like anybody, try living in Hawaii. I lived there for a year and there are tons of Japs everywhere, they thought they were going to get it in WWII, now they just pretend they did. They don't like anybody and nobody likes them. I've never seen a place with more prejudice, nobody gets along with anybody outside their own nationality.
I lived in Kawasaki for a while. I don't agree with your assessment.
Quote: EvenBobThe Japanese don't like anybody, try living in Hawaii. I lived there for a year and there are tons of Japs everywhere, they thought they were going to get it in WWII, now they just pretend they did. They don't like anybody and nobody likes them. I've never seen a place with more prejudice, nobody gets along with anybody outside their own nationality.
Do you actually read the things you write?
In Hawaii after the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, Japanese immigrants were sought by industrialists to replace the Chinese immigrants. In 1907, that immigration of workers largely ended.
Quote: thecesspitI lived in Kawasaki for a while.
You lived in a motorcycle? Its different when you live in a place where the races are mixed. My wife lived in Japan in her early teens because her father was stationed there, and she loved it. Different circumstances than Hawaii. The races in HI segregate themselves.
Quote: pacomartin
In Hawaii after the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, Japanese immigrants were sought by industrialists to replace the Chinese immigrants. In 1907, that immigration of workers largely ended.
HUH? All I can tell you is what I experienced. The blatant daily racism is why I left Hawaii. The Chinese and Japanese hated each other, and everybody else. Everybody hated the military stationed there. The natives hated absolutely everybody, and Whites were largely discriminated against. I rode public buses every day and saw it every day. Don't get me started.
Quote: thecesspitThe motorcycle got its name from somewhere... like Yokohama tires did...
So there's a Honda and a Toyota, Japan? Have you been there too?
Quote: EvenBobSo there's a Honda and a Toyota, Japan? Have you been there too?
There was a Mr Honda and there is aToyoda (Japanese Spelling) city. There a Pontiac, MI. There is a company called Milwaukee that makes machine tools.
Several Japanese companies are named for their city, or in the case of Toyoda City the other way around.
Quote: NareedI know. We had a South Korean supplier for some time several years ago. I read up on Korea and leaned that. among other things. Korea was once dominated by Japan, so they've got reasons.
In any case, like it or not, the Japanese are descended mostly from Korean stock.
Japan is known for racism, look up the term Gaijin. It means "outsider." If you are a foreigh national you have to carry your "gaijin card" at all times, even if you are just taking trash to the dupmster. Failure to carry it can result in arrest. (Imagine if we tried this in the USA. Oh yes, we did, in AZ. And Obama sued to stop it! But I digress.....)
However, the Japanese are known for being cordial to foreigners, it is more that you will just never be accepted as an equal.
Koreans (and other asians) are an exception to this. Korea was brutally occupied and dominated by Japan. Koreans will always be an underclass in Japan. Japanese see Koreans as "less pure." This is even with a lot of common history. Koreans in Japan will go to great legnths to hide their Korean roots. Even in the USA if you go to a Japanese Restaurant it is fairly lilely the "Japanese" owner, cook, or sushi chef is really Korean. Being mixed race of anything with Japanese in Japan is a life sentence of exclusion for the child.
For more on this and life of a foreigner in Japan, read "Tokyo Underworld." It is a fascinating story.
Quote: EvenBobThe natives hated absolutely everybody, and Whites were largely discriminated against. I rode public buses every day and saw it every day.
Did they make you sit in the back?
Quote: EvenBobSo there's a Honda and a Toyota, Japan? Have you been there too?
Nope, but I once slept in the back of a Datsun.
Quote: AZDuffmanJapan is known for racism,.
Try and become a Japanese citizen or even a permanent resident, its virtually impossible. Unless you're Japanese, they want nothing to do with you.
>Did they make you ride in the back of the bus>
You WANT to ride in the back, because of all the frights that break out between the military and Hawaiians and Samoans. You want to be near the back door so you can escape being involved.
I was in Hawaii with my girlfriend, and the Hawaiian men would try and pick her up when I was standing right there. We were living in Makaha, which was a poor area in those days. Everybody was on welfare and sat around all day drinking Olympia beer. Most of them had been on welfare all their lives. We went to a Mormon picnic one day and a hugely fat and very nice Hawaiian woman told me we should go back to the mainland, we weren't wanted there. She said I would never find a job and she was right, being white I was on the bottom of every list. Decades later I went to my HS reunion and one of my classmates owned a business on Oahu for over 30 years and I asked him how he handled all the blatant racism. He said easily, just stay where you belong, in your own neighborhood, and you're barely aware of it. Oh yeah, if you want be very very afraid, call a Japanese guy Chinese. Or vice versa. They'll put the fear of god into you real fast.
