pacomartin
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July 9th, 2012 at 10:47:34 AM permalink
Quote: scire

i never go anymore. The DVD of the flick -less than 4-5 months after movie release- has a lot to do with decline in attendance.
Consider also,--- the internet has the undividing attention of everyone just about----this has to have something to do with decline in attendance.



Yes, of course. The movie audience hasn't dropped precipitously, it was 1.6% higher domestically last year as it was in 1989 when Batman was released. The difference is that ticket prices have doubled, candy, popcorn and soda has probably more than doubled. The international audience has grown by leaps and bounds.

I saw the Amazing Spider Man yesterday. It was enjoyable (not great), but it is the exact same story that was written in the comic book that came out when I was 4 years old in 1961.

In 1989, the top 12 movies included 5 movies that were of little to no interest to children or young teenagers.
Driving Miss Daisy
Parenthood
Dead Poets Society
When Harry Met Sally... (R rated)
The War of the Roses (R rated)

In 2011 the only to 12 movie that young teenagers might not see was
The Hangover Part II (R rated) , and I imagine they are a good portion of the audience anyway.
teddys
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July 9th, 2012 at 11:12:15 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I saw the Amazing Spider Man yesterday. It was enjoyable (not great), but it is the exact same story that was written in the comic book that came out when I was 4 years old in 1961.

In 1989, the top 12 movies included 5 movies that were of little to no interest to children or young teenagers.
Driving Miss Daisy
Parenthood
Dead Poets Society
When Harry Met Sally... (R rated)
The War of the Roses (R rated)

In 2011 the only to 12 movie that young teenagers might not see was
The Hangover Part II (R rated) , and I imagine they are a good portion of the audience anyway.

Hollywood is not really for adults anymore. The secondary "arts" system does a good job of distributing intelligent, adult film if you live in at least a modest-sized metropolitan area or college town. When I was in college, I worked at an art house cinema that was part of a major chain of art theaters (Landmark, later bought by Mark Cuban). They had a reciprocity agreement where employees could see any movie in the chain for free. I saw EVERYTHING. (Not at my own theater; I would go to the bigger one downtown. Frankly, I abused the privilege and even pissed off a manager or two). Most of it was very, very good although there were some stinkers. It was around this time that the first Spider-Man/X-Men films came out and Hollywood started it's second downward spiral. (The first was in the late 70s/early 80s when Jaws/E.T./Star Wars came out. Funny how those are now thought of as classics.) I think Jurassic Park in 1993 was the beginning of "event' movie marketing. It was the first film I can remember being touted with an opening date. Before that, you just heard about the movies after they opened when somebody told you it was good, maybe a day or two before if you read the daily newspaper.

Amazing that quality films like Godfather, Raging Bull, Apocalypse Now, Deer Hunter, etc. were all made within the studio system. Even in the 90s there was good stuff like Shawshank Redemption, Forrest Gump (okay, okay), Driving Miss Daisy, etc. Now the art system has taken it all over. That's not all bad, but I weep for the majority of Americans who are stuck with garbage.
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FleaStiff
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July 9th, 2012 at 12:30:13 PM permalink
Look at the "dud" one firm had in the pipeline and decided to make the most of it by selling half the proceeds for a flat rather paltry sum. They were experienced in the art and the money side of film making. Flashdance!

Look at Casablanca that was not a cult film until it was marketed as a cult film.

Look at the accidental hits made by Sam Arkoff inventor of the retort "Art who?".

The people who make movies often simply have been lucky, it doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

The two major stars of one money-making films were box-office poison who were unbankable on any movie deal. One start had cold conked the biggest male lead in Hollywood history and the other was on so many drugs all the time he didn't know where he was or what he was on. Yet together they made a very profitable film.

Little makes sense in the whole industry.
Face
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Face
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July 9th, 2012 at 1:36:06 PM permalink
Much like Nareed, I don't find movies to have much of a draw anymore. Lord of the Rings was the last movie I took in, simply because it was such a high caliber of movie (for ME, settle down Nareed ;)) that I just couldn't wait for the DVD. Prior to that, the last movie taken in was in my late teens, simply because I had a car and a date.

Like AZ brought up with statdium sports, I can rarely find a reason to go. Sports is one thing, because there's something deeper about braving WNY winters to watch Bills/Dolphins, take in the tailgate parties, play football in the lot pregame, it's an experience. Ditto that for hockey. Joining my drunken Canadian brothers in a display of blue and white while the Sabres face the Leafs isn't something I can get at home. But for movies, I can't find these same reasons.

There just isn't much draw for "the experience". Dolby 5.1 can be found in probably all of our homes. Likewise for a giant TV. Popcorn, sody pops, we go those, too. The local convenience store keeps you in Twizzlers and JuJu Bees as easily as the theatre, and they don't cost $5 a box. And even a "comfy" theatre seat doesn't compare to your favorite recliner.

No, theatres need to do something to set themselves apart. In my youth, theatres were IT. VCRs, HBO, these were things rich folks had. If a movie came out, the theatre was the ONLY chance we had to see it. Now, that's no longer true for even the poorest of individuals. Unless theatres can do something to both justify the price, and offer something I can't get easier at home, I think they'll just die out.
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Nareed
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July 9th, 2012 at 1:45:47 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Much like Nareed, I don't find movies to have much of a draw anymore.



I like going to the movies. I love the "VIP" theaters nearby, too, with the deep reclining seats, side tables and really good sound. It's just I have no reason to go. I doubt the next Batman movie will rouse me, either. Frankly, the best Batman movies were the animated ones in the 90s, by far the best still being "Mask of the Phantasm" (I should get it on DVD...)

Quote:

Lord of the Rings was the last movie I took in, simply because it was such a high caliber of movie



Hey, you're free to waste your time and money as you like :P
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aceofspades
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July 9th, 2012 at 2:18:19 PM permalink
Until movie theaters enforce their own rules about no cell phone use during the movie, I will stay at home.
Nareed
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July 9th, 2012 at 2:44:54 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Until movie theaters enforce their own rules about no cell phone use during the movie, I will stay at home.



There's that, too.

And crying infants, unruly children, unruly teens, unruly adults, people who need the movie explained, people who come to the movies to chat with their friends....

That's one reason I favor the "VIP" theaters. Because the admission is more expensive (concessions are about the same), most people willing to pay more want to watch the movie, and they usually don't drag children in with them.

If only there were movies to see...
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EvenBob
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July 9th, 2012 at 3:08:11 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


Not surprising sequels
Avatar 2
Despicable Me 2



The only way I'll see Avatar2 is if its XXX rated.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
ewjones080
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July 9th, 2012 at 3:39:14 PM permalink
I think the movie biz is doing just fine. Maybe it's the huge price hikes. My local mall used to be bustling, food court, toy store, arcade with prize tickets and tons of cool prizes you could win. But since the early 2000's, the arcade started slowly drying out, the food court almost cut in half, and fewer and fewer lots being used. I think the movie theatre was the only thing keeping the mall alive. They just built a brand new theatre. Haven't been there yet, but it sounds a hell of a lot better than the other one.
WASHOO2
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July 9th, 2012 at 3:57:00 PM permalink
Great idea with DVD watching but I have become so lazy lately I don`t even bother with them any more. Back to TV channel flipping.
Nareed
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July 9th, 2012 at 4:28:06 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

I think the movie theatre was the only thing keeping the mall alive. They just built a brand new theatre. Haven't been there yet, but it sounds a hell of a lot better than the other one.



Near my appartment there used to be one movieplex and one mall. Since then they've built two other malls, each with a bigger multiplex movie complex than the last. In fact, the third mall has the same chain movie theaters as the first, and they are less than one mile apart.

What I miss are the large theaters with the BIG screens as tall as a building. There are some IMAX theaters, but it's not the same.
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pacomartin
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July 9th, 2012 at 5:32:15 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Near my appartment there used to be one movieplex and one mall. Since then they've built two other malls, each with a bigger multiplex movie complex than the last. In fact, the third mall has the same chain movie theaters as the first, and they are less than one mile apart.

What I miss are the large theaters with the BIG screens as tall as a building. There are some IMAX theaters, but it's not the same.



Is it Cinemark? I know they have a lot of Latin American complexes




One of the smaller chains in the USA, has departed from IMAX and is introducing a 78 feet wide and 35 feet tall , "Big D" format. There are a lot of complaints that IMAX is too small.
Nareed
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July 9th, 2012 at 5:39:42 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Is it Cinemark? I know they have a lot of Latin American complexes



No. Cinépolis. The other malll has a Cinemex.

I don't think I've ever been to a Cinemark. The closest one is very inconveniently located.
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pacomartin
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July 9th, 2012 at 7:56:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

No. Cinépolis. The other malll has a Cinemex.

I don't think I've ever been to a Cinemark. The closest one is very inconveniently located.



The problem in the USA is they have nearly doubled the number of movie screens from 1989-2011 for an increase in ticket sales of 1.5% . They are now at the point that they sell 94 tickets per screen per day on average. Generally they show a movie at least 4 times a day on a screen, and sometimes more.

So if an average theater has 200-300 seats, with four showings a day to sell an average of 94 tickets per day. There are enough seats in theaters for the entire population of the country to watch a movie every week, but weekly ticket sales average 8% of the population.

The overcapacity is ridiculous. What the movie theaters are hoping is that with new digital projectors, they can convince people to have business meetings in movie theaters. I don't know if they will be showing Power point on movie screens, but they have to open up a new market.

Half the screens are 10 circuits in US and Canada.

Theoretically, it would be nice if one screen were used for something different instead of 3 -5 screens used for the latest blockbuster.

rank Circuit Headquarters Screens Sites
1 Regal Entertainment Group Knoxville,TN 6777 548
2 AMC Entertainment. Inc. Kansas City, MO 5336 378
3 Cinemark USA, Inc. Plano, TX 3825 293
4 Carmike Cinemas, Inc. Columbus, GA 2268 242
5 Cineplex Entertainment LP Toronto, ON 1347 130
6 Rave Motion Pictures Dallas, TX 936 62
7 Marcus Theatres Corp. Milwaukee, WI 668 54
8 Hollywood Theaters Portland, OR 546 49
9 National Amusements Dedham, MA 450 34
10 Harkins Theatres Phoenix, AZ 429 30
FleaStiff
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July 9th, 2012 at 8:18:58 PM permalink
Think back to the days when merchants didn't want movie theaters in shopping malls because they would be parasitic as far as parking places and movie goers rather than shoppers.

Over capacity? Yes, but now they can have over capacity in super duper technowhatsit.

Power point presentations amidst the odor of popcorn?
AcesAndEights
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July 9th, 2012 at 9:10:05 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


Re-imagine
The Hobbit
Oz Wars
Oz: The Great and Powerful (Prequel)


You can add the "Total Recall" remake to that list. I can't stand the lack of originality in Hollywood these days. I rarely see a movie unless my girlfriend really wants to see one and drags me along. The last 2 were Hunger Games and The Avengers. I quite enjoyed Hunger Games, but not for $13. The Avengers was okay, but definitely not worth $13. The prices are just too ridiculous.

I think we got some discount tickets from Costco for the next movie we see. Something like $10/ticket. I'm not the most frugal person in the world, but these prices still cheese me off.
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pacomartin
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July 10th, 2012 at 7:12:46 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Think back to the days when merchants didn't want movie theaters in shopping malls because they would be parasitic as far as parking places and movie goers rather than shoppers.

Over capacity? Yes, but now they can have over capacity in super duper technowhatsit.

Power point presentations amidst the odor of popcorn?



In Las Vegas the Movie theaters in Shopping Malls are growing old (except for Rave at Town Center) as most of them have moved to casinos.

But one has to question the overall logic of having enough seating capacity for the entire nation (once per week) in rooms that are being equipped with gear to expose the customer to increasingly more elaborate stimulii (better sound systems, larger screens, vibrating chairs, etc.). It would be more efficient to deliver this stimulus directly to people individually. The old idea of having a dark place for teenagers to cuddle is increasingly obsolete when they are having cyber sex.


Also, if I want to see Midnight in Paris, the Woody Allen film which sold 7 million tickets over the course of its box office run, there has to be a more intelligent way to see this movie than going to the multi-plex with the kids. They release it in 6 theaters the first week, then 58, 147, 944, 1038 theaters in the 2nd through fifth week while hopefully reviewers build up interest in the film. By the end of the fifth week it has reached 42% of it's total viewership as the number of theaters begins to wind down.
Nareed
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July 10th, 2012 at 7:27:06 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The overcapacity is ridiculous. What the movie theaters are hoping is that with new digital projectors, they can convince people to have business meetings in movie theaters. I don't know if they will be showing Power point on movie screens, but they have to open up a new market.



That would have been great some years ago, before skype and cheap digital projectors for PCs.

In Mexico, Cinemex shows MNF games. I've never been to one, but it seems like a good idea. I don't know how they do with that.

The point is that technologies come and go. Whale oil gives way to kerosene, which gives way to the light bulb, which gets replaced by the CFL, which makes way for the LED. I hear stables for horses in the middle of cities aren't as profitable as they used to be in the 1800s, too.

The funny thing is when there's a lot of noise made to the effect that development A will kill industry B, it's usually wrong. Like when TV was going to kill the movie industry. But then there's a development C, which kills industries A and B, and no one saw it coming. Like when the web began killing movie theaters and TV networks.
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pacomartin
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July 10th, 2012 at 7:46:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That would have been great some years ago, before skype and cheap digital projectors for PCs.
In Mexico, Cinemex shows MNF games. I've never been to one, but it seems like a good idea. I don't know how they do with that.



I am also skeptical how many people want to have a business presentation in a movie theater.

Do they charge admission for the MNF games? Most theaters make their money on snack food sales. Can you buy beer in some Mexican theater? They are experimenting with theaters in the USA where you can drink, but most of them don't permit it.

Mexico, nor any nation, has the overcapacity of movie theaters like the USA. The attendance figures published by Cinemark indicates at least double the patrons per movie theater in Mexico than the USA. The biggest problem that I can see, is the widespread availability of the knock-off DVD's. I am amazed at how fast they put them on the streets. They were everywhere the day after a movie premiers.

I bought one once, just because I was curious. The quality was so bad, that it was essentially unwatchable.
AZDuffman
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July 10th, 2012 at 7:54:47 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


Mexico, nor any nation, has the overcapacity of movie theaters like the USA. The attendance figures published by Cinemark indicates at least double the patrons per movie theater in Mexico than the USA.



In the USA, many of the theatre chains are thinly-disgusied real esate plays. Buy land, show movies at break-even until the mortgage is paid off, sell appriciated in value land for redevelopment.
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MrV
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July 10th, 2012 at 8:06:01 AM permalink
FWIW, several old movie theaters up here have found new life as a church.

So did a closed K-Mart.

"Salvation on aisle 10 ..."
"What, me worry?"
Nareed
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July 10th, 2012 at 8:12:18 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Do they charge admission for the MNF games?



I suppose so.

Quote:

Can you buy beer in some Mexican theater?



The VIP theaters at Cinepolis have a bar alongside other concessions, or they did when I last went. There was also a coffee stand, sushi bar, dessert bar, the common popcorn/candy/soda concession and some kind of hot food available. You can order mid-showing through a waiter as well.


Quote:

The biggest problem that I can see, is the widespread availability of the knock-off DVD's. I am amazed at how fast they put them on the streets. They were everywhere the day after a movie premiers.



They have them before the movie premieres, but usually no one will buy them until after the movies are in theaters.

And yes, the quality usually sucks. But at under $1 per title in a poor country, well, the math is clear.
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AZDuffman
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July 10th, 2012 at 8:34:34 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

FWIW, several old movie theaters up here have found new life as a church.

So did a closed K-Mart.

"Salvation on aisle 10 ..."



That is wild as down here several old chruchs found new life as berw-pubs. Buildings are buildings....
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buzzpaff
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July 10th, 2012 at 8:39:06 AM permalink
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