Everything happens for a reason?

I hear this a lot, and it seems like I've heard it a lot more lately. What do you think, does everything happen for a reason?

Yes, it's called cause and effect... for every reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction. Newton wrote a treatise about it.

Everything happens because of a reason (that sounds odd, but that's one way of putting Newton's law).

But the phrase "everything happens for a reason" implies that there is some future reason guiding events. That doesn't sit so well with me.

Quote: thecesspit

Yes, it's called cause and effect... for every reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction. Newton wrote a treatise about it.

Haha! Come on now you know that phrase isn't referring to Newton's laws of motion. By the way, it's every ACTION.

Quote: clarkacal

Haha! Come on now you know that phrase isn't referring to Newton's laws of motion. By the way, it's every ACTION.

I know it's not what is meant... I did ask once, as it seemed such a strange thing to comment on, that I thought people must just mean "shit happens cos other stuff happens". But they didn't. They meant there is some sort of grand karmic plan.

I don't believe that myself.

It's the secular way of saying "It's God's will," or something like that.

It has as much validity as the original.

Its an axiom, and all axiom's are bogus. Some things happen for a reason, some things don't.

Axiom: A self-evident principle that is accepted as true without proof.

Not sure if this is what you intended but here's the story anyway:

A few friends and I were running in the Seattle St Patrick's Day Dash on Sunday. Mrs. Slyther and I had finished and were waiting at the finish line area (standing under the announcers tent since it was raining) with the wife of one of the others in our group. As it turns out he had already finished but we had missed him (easy to do in a race with 13,000+ people in it). He found us just as someone was noticing a runner had collapsed at the finish.
our friend's wife, who is an Army ER doctor, ran over there to check it out. The next thing we know she is administering CPR. After a couple minutes medics arrive from further up the finish area to take over and the runner (now breathing on his own) is taken to the hospital. Our friend's wife said he did not have a pulse when she started working on him. The Seattle Times article on the race mentions this guy at the end and said he turned out ok.

So was there a reason we just happened to be in the right spot at that moment for her to act, only because we had missed seeing her husband cross the finish? Either way it's a pretty awesome story and she's a hero.

Quote: EvenBob

Its an axiom, and all axiom's are bogus. Some things happen for a reason, some things don't.

Axiom: A self-evident principle that is accepted as true without proof.

Isn't it axiomatic to say, "all axioms are bogus"? ;)

I think folks have done a good job of sorting out the question to mean, "Everything happens for a reason (as guided by a supreme being who cares about you, wants your ultimate long-term good, and brings tragedies and joys into your life towards that end, some of which you may understand in this life but some you may not)," as opposed to "Everything happens for a (cause-and-effect) reason."

While physical phenomena can be traced to the latter, I tend to give more weight to the former as far as the psychological "why" of tragedies and joys in our lives. Otherwise, what we call "free will" is just a joke, because if our behaviors and instincts are cause-and-effect, then we're only biological automatons that think things and behave in certain ways because we have to think and behave that way as an effect of a multitude of causes.

In other words, we would have no more "fre will" in our reactions than a rock has to fall to the ground when dropped.

Plus, it rings truer to our experience. All of us, at some point, have looked back on a (then-thought-to-be) tragedy and thought, man, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Conversely, we may look back on a (then-thought-to-be) joy and think, man, that was the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Also, I don't think any of us look back on the body of our experiences as just "things that happened because of cause and effect." Instead, we look back on some things fondly and others regretfully.

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

Otherwise, what we call "free will" is just a joke

Its not a joke, its just another meaningless way to explain something we don't understand. The universe is obviously ruled by random events. We think we see a 'creation', so there must be a creator hiding somewhere in the wings, running everything.

Quote: slyther

So was there a reason we just happened to be in the right spot at that moment for her to act, only because we had missed seeing her husband cross the finish?

Only if chance qualifies as a reason.

How many times has she been, say, two blocks away from someone in a similar situation? How can you even tell?

Quote:

Either way it's a pretty awesome story and she's a hero.

Certainly. but that's a different matter.

Quote: EvenBob

Its not a joke, its just another meaningless way to explain something we don't understand. The universe is obviously ruled by random events. We think we see a 'creation', so there must be a creator hiding somewhere in the wings, running everything.

I think this thinking betrays something. If our thinking and behavior was truly cause-and-effect, we would not be considering the question of whether or not anything ruled the universe at all. We couldn't think outside that "box." Using your reason to conclude that the universe is ruled by *anything* - random chance or otherwise - is thinking outside that "box." Using your reason to conclude that reason is useless seems, to me at least, like cutting off the branch on which you sit.

Frankly, it was this question which moved me off of the strict "we come from nature, and what is natural is what rules us" question. It's just impossible to intellectually accept both the reliability of your reason in thinking about matters outside the "box" and simultaneously declare that we're unable to think outside the "box."

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

We couldn't think outside that "box."

Now you're inventing a 'box' and the rules that govern it. Just like people invent a 'creation'.

Quote: EvenBob

Now you're inventing a 'box' and the rules that govern it. Just like people invent a 'creation'.

Maybe. But maybe you're ignoring a box that's as plain as the nose on your face. Are you open-minded to that possibility?

Quote: slyther

So was there a reason we just happened to be in the right spot at that moment for her to act, only because we had missed seeing her husband cross the finish?

The problem with this is if you weren't in the right place and the person didn't make it, many people would still say it happened for a reason. So either way, and with either outcome, you overfit the event and it's related future events to your way of thinking. If things just keep getting worse and it seems there is no good at all coming from some important event then many people say "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger", which helps explain away the situations that aren't easily categorized into "everything happens for a reason".

I don't buy it.

The army doc was a great story. But had she not been there, it would have been someones else great story, along the lines of "Man, I wasnt even gonna race, good thing I was there and knew CPR. Musta happened for a reason" or "Gee, good thing I took that work-offered CPR course. I wasn't even gonna, I guess it happened for a reason" etc and so on. And as clarkacal offered, had no one been there and the dude died, well, "it musta happened for a reason".

Even though I consider myself a (severe?) Atheist, I still did spiritual things, one of which was visiting the site of my Grandfathers grave. I'd often talk to him whenever things really hit rock bottom, even though I knew (believed) that there was no true purpose nor could he hear me or possibly affect anything. On one of my darkest days I visited, late NY fall, sky an angry gray, winter breeze like a knife hiding behind the last vestige of Summer's warmth waiting to cut right through you. I began talking and lost track of myself, just wandering through the misery of my life at the time, and I couldnt tell you if it was 5 minutes or 2 hours, but right about the time I came to the 'asking for guidance' portion of my speech, the clouds parted and a blast of sunshine came right down and lit up only the cemetary. The wind stopped, the air warmed, and literally nothing but the cemetary was under the light; you could see the rays falling from the sky, and here was literally the only place you could see them breaking through the clouds. At first it didn't strike me as odd (hate NY weather? wait 5 minutes, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk =P) but only as nice. Being that it was so grey and so cold for so long, any sun was nice. But to have that rare, late Fall, hot sun break through the clouds and only shine where I was, on one of the extremely rare times I 'got spiritual', right as I was asking for relief? VERY bizarre. And at about that point, I realized I felt better. In fact, it pretty much marked my turn around point, and less than 3 months later I met the girl who's now my wife.

Coincidence? OF COURSE IT IS!

Happened for a reason? You bet. I was there due to some bad life decisions, the weather changed because NY Fall weather is as bi-polar as a 13 yr old girl, I felt better because sunshine makes people feel better, and I found my now-wife cause I'm a smooth mf'er ;) But fate? Grand karmic plan? God sayeth to be so, let it be so? Nah.

Everyone has a story such as these. And everyone is as debatable as religion itself. You can go back and forth with reason for or reason against, they'll all eventually degrade into 1 of 2 of the very first childhood arguments you've ever had, either "yeah-huh...nuh-uh...yeah-huh...nuh-uh" or "why? because. but why? because! why tho? just because"

But even so, these discussions ARE good fun so no need to stop on anyone's behalf, least of all my own. Carry on!

Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

But maybe you're ignoring a box that's as plain as the nose on your face.

Hey, thats a box you made, not me. Everybody has there own boxes, they don't mean anything anybody but them. And people who think things happen for reasons other than the obvious ones, are just trying to make themselves 'special' in some way.