My company owes me $6,000 and won't pay!
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Long story short, I accepted a transfer to a different office within my company. I was given a $6,000 moving expense budget to help with the move. I got a signed letter from my company indicating the $6,000 could be used for, amongst other things, rent paid in advance. Hence, trying to make the best of the situation, I did the move myself and saved the bulk of the $6,000 for rent.
I confirmed on two separate occasions with HR that rent was a reimbursable expense. Well guess what, after submitting my expenses, my company has backed up on their offer and are not willing to reimburse me the rent money. The amount I expensed in rent is $4,000. They won't pay any of it, even after escalating it to the very top of the company. Six months has passed with no resolution.
I want to preface this with the fact that I really love my job in my new office. I moved from a very large office to a very small one, which I find to be a much more suitable working environment for me. I'm an actuary working in a consulting company and this new office has launched my career forward at least 5 years from where it was when I left my old office. I have made tons of networking connections in the short 6 months I've been in this new office. Other than this expense issue, I have never been more satisfied with my job.
I have three options at this point:
-Let it go
-Offer a compromise ($2000 instead of $4000)
-Take my employer to court (or at the very least, start legal proceedings)
How would you proceed? I am pretty sure if I took them to court I would win seeing as I have a signed agreement. But there may be other consequences at work if I go that route.
Don't trust them.
The writing is on the wall.... read it. They don't like you much... so something is going to be happening to you eventually even if you like the new job.
If you sue... you lose your reputation in the industry. Unless perhaps you sue after you leave.
Quote: cardsharkI have made tons of networking connections in the short 6 months I've been in this new office.
Time to see whether those connections can help you find another job.
Your employer has already indicated to you how much it values keeping its word and dealing fairly with its employees. It's $4000 now... what if something worse happens in a couple years? At the very least, you've reached the "fool you once, shame on them" point.
Quote: cardsharkI have three options at this point:
-Let it go
-Offer a compromise ($2000 instead of $4000)
-Take my employer to court (or at the very least, start legal proceedings)
How would you proceed? I am pretty sure if I took them to court I would win seeing as I have a signed agreement. But there may be other consequences at work if I go that route.
You're an actuary, so you can compute the EV of each option (and its natural consequences) on your situation. Given that you're 4000 in the hole, letting it go has a fixed 0 EV from now. Taking your employer to court has a likely +4000 EV, plus possible negatives. On the other hand, if you get fired after attempting to collect a debt from your employer, that might also be wrongful termination. You should at least talk to an employment attorney about this.
Another option: attempt to extract $4000 in value from your company in another fashion.
I realize that loving your new office is a big consideration. Do you love it enough to let the $4,000 go? Perhaps you can negotiate a permanent pay raise - one that, in the long term, will give you more than $4,000.
If they had not offered anything, would you have made the move anyway?
You could test this by offering to forgo the moving expense, in lieu of a cash bonus. If the answer is still no, then you can assume it is all about the money, and nothing else.
I got into a situation once where I accepted an official offer for a job within the same company, in another state, complete with moving expenses, and a nice raise. We were in the other state looking at houses when I got a call telling me the CFO had vetoed the deal. This was almost 3 weeks after I had accepted it. Perhaps someone in your company has pulled a similar stunt.
If you have a great relationship with your manager, talk with him/her. Perhaps they have access to discretionary funds, and would be willing to give you 'an award'.
Discussing this with your HR department could be another option. Of course, taking this to people outside of those you have already involved will not be welcomed by the people who have already said NO.
You are in a tough spot my friend. Give up $4k, or risk ticking off people in a job you really like.....................
I am an employment attorney, and damn if I didn't also contemplate becoming an actuary before going to Law School. Send me a PM via the Board if you'd like. And yes, the advice will be free to a fellow Bd. member ... ;-)
Quote: DJTeddyBear
If they had not offered anything, would you have made the move anyway?
Good question, the answer is yes.
Quote: s2dbakerLawyer up and sue. They'll walk all over you for the rest of your career if you let them walk all over you now. Let your lawyer decide if you have a case.
I was actually thinking about this is as well. If I don't take a stand for myself now, will they try to pull something like this again in the future? What will my salary increases and bonus look like in the future if they think they can low ball me and I'll just sit there and take it? At the same time, I don't want to come off as being greedy and only in it for the money...
Quote: cardsharkI am looking for advice regarding an issue I am having with my company at the moment.
I did the move myself and saved the bulk of the $6,000 for rent.
Did you have to rent something temporary, ie. short notice or while you were waiting to sell an existing house? If the answer is no to both of those your company may not feel like subsidizing your rent and frankly I don't blame them... no offense but it sounds like you were trying to get over a little on them. Was the transfer their idea or your? Higher cost of living city or lower? A signed agreement however is a signed agreement.. Talk to an attorney but they will be able to find a reason to fire you with cause down the road if you piss them off too much.when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
If you can't trust what your employer says, even in writing, do you really want to stay at that job? If tomorrow they decide they don't want to pay for your vacation, what are you going to do then? Or they just decide they don't want to pay you at all any more?
This is not the only firm out there, nor is it a very good one judging from what you have said. Update your resume, and start looking. Get a new job.
Then sue. You don't need a lawyer. Sue them by yourself in small claims. But be sure to have changed the employer before you do.
Quote: RaleighCrapsPerhaps the company has discovered there is some legal reason they can't treat the rent as moving expense. If they had to put the expense in another bucket, like wages, then perhaps they have other legitimate issues to deal with (ss taxes, etc.)
You could test this by offering to forgo the moving expense, in lieu of a cash bonus. If the answer is still no, then you can assume it is all about the money, and nothing else.
I got into a situation once where I accepted an official offer for a job within the same company, in another state, complete with moving expenses, and a nice raise. We were in the other state looking at houses when I got a call telling me the CFO had vetoed the deal. This was almost 3 weeks after I had accepted it. Perhaps someone in your company has pulled a similar stunt.
If you have a great relationship with your manager, talk with him/her. Perhaps they have access to discretionary funds, and would be willing to give you 'an award'.
Discussing this with your HR department could be another option. Of course, taking this to people outside of those you have already involved will not be welcomed by the people who have already said NO.
You are in a tough spot my friend. Give up $4k, or risk ticking off people in a job you really like.....................
This is a good point. I did escalate this to HR, that's why its been 6 months since I first submitted the expenses. The "legal" reason they give me is that rent is not a tax deductible expense for them, so they should have never promised to reimburse me that. I think if they were serious about reaching a fair agreement, they would have already offered to pay me the money as a bonus, grossed up for taxes or not. Instead they stay firm that they will not pay it, despite the fact that I have a signed contract from them.
The relationship with my boss is good, but it has already been hurt by this. It was him who refused to reimburse me in the first place. He could have easily just "signed off" on the expenses, but instead put up a road block. We still have a good working relationship, but if I pursue this, I think it will deteriorate. This is a small office, so its only three of us in this office, I report to him and I have a junior under me.
Some other people made strong points about looking for another job. I'd hate to go that route, but I also recognize that I need to work for people who value me and compensate me accordingly. I hope it doesn't come to that.
Quote: Scotty71Quote: cardsharkDid you have to rent something temporary, ie. short notice or while you were waiting to sell an existing house? If the answer is no to both of those your company may not feel like subsidizing your rent and frankly I don't blame them... no offense but it sounds like you were trying to get over a little on them. Was the transfer their idea or your? Higher cost of living city or lower? A signed agreement however is a signed agreement.. Talk to an attorney but they will be able to find a reason to fire you with cause down the road if you piss them off too much.
The transfer was something I volunteered for. More specifically, it was an internal email I responded to announcing the staffing need. It was short notice, 2 weeks - they needed someone urgently. I have a house I currently pay a mortgage on in my old city, so in a way, yes this is a temporary rental. I do plan on selling my old house in a few months. Cost of living here is much higher.
Quote: buzzpaffBut aren't you only in it for the money? Not there is anything wrong with that. First three goals of any business are make a profit, make a profit, make a profit. Seems a little late to seek a high moral ground ?
Yes and no. If I had no need for money, I'd probably pick a different profession that is a bit more altruistic. But I do love my job. I don't come to work everyday thinking I'm only here because of the money, I actually enjoying coming in to work.
I don't see how I am seeking a high moral ground. I'm just seeking the money I was promised. Right now, I am weighing the consequences of taking them to court in order to get it.
Quote: thecesspitAre you a member of a professional body? They may be able to provide legal help.
Hmmm, yes I am. Good thinking, I'll look into that.
Quote: cardsharkThis is a good point. I did escalate this to HR, that's why its been 6 months since I first submitted the expenses. The "legal" reason they give me is that rent is not a tax deductible expense for them, so they should have never promised to reimburse me that. I think if they were serious about reaching a fair agreement, they would have already offered to pay me the money as a bonus, grossed up for taxes or not. Instead they stay firm that they will not pay it, despite the fact that I have a signed contract from them.
The relationship with my boss is good, but it has already been hurt by this. It was him who refused to reimburse me in the first place. He could have easily just "signed off" on the expenses, but instead put up a road block. We still have a good working relationship, but if I pursue this, I think it will deteriorate. This is a small office, so its only three of us in this office, I report to him and I have a junior under me.
Some other people made strong points about looking for another job. I'd hate to go that route, but I also recognize that I need to work for people who value me and compensate me accordingly. I hope it doesn't come to that.
The relationship with your boss is not good. If you sue and win you will be getting 4k, but it will be taxable to you. If you also have to pay a lawyer then it is not even close to being worth your while. You have to make the decision whether working for a boss who lied to you is worth the overall job satisfaction and money you make from the job. I would have a difficult time working for the boss you describe.
I personally think they are giving you some B.S answers but I have seen Relo packages as big as 1MM . They may feel in this economy they have you by the shorthairs and the accountants can call the shots. Is the company private, partnership, public?
FYI you can deduct the moving expenses.
This is what it turns on:
Quote: CSamongst other things, rent paid in advance.
Rent paid in advance, is rent that you paid prior to moving to the new location. So, if you were being asked to move in April, and you go out in February, and you pay for two months of rent on the new place, the time before April, then you might have a shot.
The rent paid between the date of the move, in your case, almost immediately, and the date that you were finally out of your old house, but performing your duties in your new office, doesn't count.
Sorry. You actually saved your company $6k by being frugal in your moving costs. They would have paid the moving company $6k to move you, but refuse to give you $4k becasue you were cheap. That is kinda illogical to me, but, that's life sometimes.
Your new boss doesn't want his P&L hit becasue of moving costs, and the folks in the old office do not want the expense, cause you are gone. And home office says that they are not qualified expenses. Your screwed. And the amount isn't anywhere near enough to die over.
That's why I own the firm......
SFB
