Poll
7 votes (20%) | |||
3 votes (8.57%) | |||
6 votes (17.14%) | |||
19 votes (54.28%) |
35 members have voted
Here's why I think so. The library of posts is listed below, but consider ...
teeth1 appeared 2 days after MKL's latest ban, Feb 23.
Wizard has said MKL was very angry at being banned.
Signature lines are similar ...
Quote: mkl654321The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Quote: teeth1Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. ___ Friedrich Nietzsche
... right down to the three dashes before citing the author.
teeth1 knows a lot about long-ago posts. While it is only VERY UNLIKELY that someone would visit for, say, 4-5 months before joining, it is even MORE UNLIKELY that someone visiting that long would hold something of a positive opinion about MKL. The best I think anyone has said of MKL is that he's ... er ... entertaining.
The one small exchange I had, he called me a nasty name and had to have the last word.
Look, I don't like the guy any more than anyone else, but there's always room for redemption. If MKL comes back and demonstrates a truly new attitude, I can (eventually) think better of him. But doing it under a sockpuppet is bullsh.
So, I thought I would test my perceptions against the rest of the forum's and see if I was truly smelling a rat or if I'm seeing something that's not there.
Body of posts here:
Quote: teeth1MKL isn't motivated by trivial things like post counts, you're thinking of MRJJJJJJJJJJJJJ. What ever happened to him?
By the way, his first post under the sockpuppet. Really?!? MKL not motivated by post counts? Knows about mrjjj? Something MKL accused mrjjj of?
Quote: teeth1That's what always got me about this show and Frazier too - a different woman every week.
Do people like this actually exist in real life?
OK, normal one ...
Quote: teeth1As far as absurd quotes go, thanks to Charlie Sheen, there's now a whole new source.
Also normal ...
Quote: teeth1killed
That's more like it!
Quote: teeth1Before this thread lapses, more details on the horse are as follows
Trainer: Dale L. Romans
Jockey: Jesus Lopez Castanon
Owner: Lauffer, Michael and Cubbedge, W.D.
Breeder: Mike Lauffer & Bill Cubbedge
Career Racing Summary:
Starts Firsts Seconds Thirds Earnings
4 2 0 0 $ 71,666
Auction History
Prices in parentheses indicate a horse did not sell because it did not meet its reserve price.
Year Sale
2009 Keeneland Association September 2009 Yearling Sale ($275,000)
Lapses? Really?
Quote: teeth1There's no getting anything past you.
Is it .....
Quote: teeth1Organised labor and organised religion, are they mutually exclusive?
The "s" instead of "z" thing *might indicate something like English, but there's nothing anywhere else.
Quote: teeth1You seem to have acquired some of MKL's paranoia.
HERE we go!
Quote: teeth1I'll take that as a compliment.
In reference to him being like MKL. I don't think I've come across any long-timer here who would take "you're like MKL" as a compliment. I was already suspicious at that point, but that pretty much convinced me. Last word!
His 9th post, btw, and 4 of them on "positive" qualities of MKL. But there's more ...
Quote: teeth1Very impressive, you must have a lot of self control.
However, you didn't mention turnover, so we don't know if you are in the same league as the Wizard.
Possibly not sarcastic, but probably is. So that's 5 out of 10 posts that are either complimentary of MKL or exactly like him in their sarcasm or know-it-all-ness.
But here's the one that nailed it down ...
Quote: teeth1Now we will never know what MKL's IQ was.
WHY would a noob cite a thread that's been dead for, what, 4 months? One started by MKL for MKL's own self-promotion, and yet still think MKL was anything other than what he was? Possibly sarcastic, but in light of the entire body, probably not.
I wonder where "teeth" comes from?
For the record, based on what I've seen, I wouldn't care if they are the same.
Sure, those are some interesting details that were pointed out, but, anything taken out of context can seem like a smoking gun.
But his new persona is far more reserved - at least for now.
Quote: WizardI asked JB to look into it. I hope it comes back negative, as I think teeth is much better behaved than mkl.
I'm open to being wrong, and if I am, I'll do what I have to to make it right. But it JDLR. Part of me is embarrassed because it even matters, but I, like many other participants, have enjoyed the clean air and I guess I just felt like it would be better to err on the side of making an ass of myself than just standing by while MKL made a (possible and underhanded) stealth return.
Quote: odiousgambitgeez, all MKL has to do is apologize and say he wants back in.
No, not even that. He's done his time by the rules and he can get back in simply by getting back in.
Quote: odiousgambitgeez, all MKL has to do is apologize and say he wants back in.
Won't happen. It's both above him and beneath him to do so. It's his Nietzsche-quoting insanity, posture and bickering.
A forum board and its administrators have to be leery and weary of any sort of any creeping Nietzsche insanity.
There's too much gambling and game design to behold.
Quote: PaigowdanWon't happen. It's both above him and beneath him to do so...
He apologized before, after his first suspension. When he keeps his temper under control I think he makes for a valuable contributer.
Quote: ItsCalledSoccerI'm open to being wrong, and if I am, I'll do what I have to to make it right. But it JDLR. Part of me is embarrassed because it even matters, but I, like many other participants, have enjoyed the clean air and I guess I just felt like it would be better to err on the side of making an ass of myself than just standing by while MKL made a (possible and underhanded) stealth return.
Paranoia, paranoia, their coming to get me...
In essence, I think looking for Reds Under the Beds is unhealthy and unhelpful... it just continues feeding those who want to be in the psyche's egos boiling over, and harms any relationship with newer members. Maybe Teeth1 was lurking for ages and didn't like to reply while other people where waging a trolling war? Until someones behaviour is such that it is causing a problem, I don't think it matters too much if you are all sock puppets of Rob Singer posting this in a Mazda 3 while driving to an Indian casino to play Martingales on the Wheel of Fortune.
Quote: thecesspitParanoia, paranoia, their coming to get me...
In essence, I think looking for Reds Under the Beds is unhealthy and unhelpful... it just continues feeding those who want to be in the psyche's egos boiling over, and harms any relationship with newer members. Maybe Teeth1 was lurking for ages and didn't like to reply while other people where waging a trolling war? Until someones behaviour is such that it is causing a problem, I don't think it matters too much if you are all sock puppets of Rob Singer posting this in a Mazda 3 while driving to an Indian casino to play Martingales on the Wheel of Fortune.
Calculated risk, no doubt. But nobody's answered "no" to the poll, which *might* affirm my perception ... although most folks voted "don't care," which, admittedly, is probably what I would've voted.
I guess we'll see what, if anything, JB's look-see yields ...
I'd suggest that the best way to deal with it is to ping/msg the boss man to have a look at the IPs, so no-one external feels victimized by a thread..
(Organise is indeed an UK spelling of organize, most Canadians I know spell it with Z, as do I, even though I'm British... I had a big argument about it being a correct English form in various papers I wrote at University, until I brought along my OED)
Quote: WizardHe apologized before, after his first suspension.
As I recall he managed to insult people in his apology thread.
Which leads to:
Quote:When he keeps his temper under control I think he makes for a valuable contributer.
It's not his temper. If he blew a gasket from time to time, that would be fine. It would have been fine even if he got angry and lashed out often. Mkl's problem is that he has a knack for insulting and offending other people. I posted elsewhere he tends to act against tact, I maintain that. Also in heated arguments he'd attack the poster rather than the argument. Now, that's common in such threads, but usually one attacks the poster and the argument.
Yes, sometimes he had interesting and valuable things to say. But what good is that when so many of the users here had him blocked?
I won't divulge something he told me in a PM. But I'll say this: as a matter of course I don't delete PMs, either received or sent. In his case I was glad to make an exception.
Quote: thecesspitAnd bam... two no's for you :)
I'd suggest that the best way to deal with it is to ping/msg the boss man to have a look at the IPs, so no-one external feels victimized by a thread..
(Organise is indeed an UK spelling of organize, most Canadians I know spell it with Z, as do I, even though I'm British... I had a big argument about it being a correct English form in various papers I wrote at University, until I brought along my OED)
Heh ... yeah, funny how that works. Prolly MKL and teeth1 themselves! (teeth1's name doesn't appear in the "Members Who Have Visited The Forum Today" list, but he may now change that, too. And, does anyone think mkl hasn't checked in since his ban? not once?)
I thought of that option, as well as others. But I landed on this being the best one ... again, calculated risk, we'll see how it goes. I wouldn't think any sock-puppeteer would use the same IP, but I would be interested in seeing if they were in a similar region.
Quote: ItsCalledSoccer<meant to be comical but serve the purpose of not allowing MKL to come back as a sockpuppet>
Here's why I think so. The library of posts is listed below, but consider ...
teeth1 appeared 2 days after MKL's latest ban, Feb 23.
Wizard has said MKL was very angry at being banned.
Signature lines are similar ...
SPRUNG! I'm considering changing my tag to ItsCalledParanoia.
Do you think that somebody so mathematically precise about their gambling, as MKL was, would be interested in racehorses.
Quote: WizardHe apologized before, after his first suspension. When he keeps his temper under control I think he makes for a valuable contributer.
Maybe so...but if he apologized, then he should cease being a risk of a repeat offense;
- once, shame on you; twice, shame on me.
Truly turning a new leaf - in good faith - is the requirement, isn't it?
Quote: NareedAlso in heated arguments he'd attack the poster rather than the argument. Now, that's common in such threads, but usually one attacks the poster and the argument.
That is called an ad-hominem argument, which he often identified others making.
Quote: JBFrom what I can tell, they appear to be different people:
mkl654321 signed up from 76.115.***.*** (somewhere in Oregon) and last
logged in from 98.232.***.*** (also Oregon).
teeth1 signed up from 114.72.***.*** (somewhere in [another country]) and last
logged in from 120.17.***.*** (also [another country]).
That's not proof that it couldn't be the same person, but chances are
good that they are probably different people.
So it appears those who voted 'no' were probably right, although 'don't care' would not have been a wrong answer.
Some of us may be guilty of grudges, for having crossed swords with him here and there.
But starting fights here is a no-no. Worse then defending, responding, or getting involved?
We were spooked by similar appearance, maybe against an innocent.
Big Daddy has to make a call.
Quote: WizardHere is the report by webmaster JB:
So it appears those who voted 'no' were probably right, although 'don't care' would not have been a wrong answer.
I stand corrected. But still, any admirer of MKL has one strike. Anyone (ostensibly) setting a trap on their 11th post has two strikes. Anyone calling people nasty names ... well, we'll let Wizard decide as time goes on.
PaigowDan is right .. very similar, very spooky. It does not bode well.
Or not, but whatever. If someone wants to come in here and poke at people for their own amusement, it really doesn't matter if it is mkl or someone else. It's annoying, and unfriendly. But sometimes people are that way.
Teeth1 and mkl were so similar it was uncanny: quotes, positions, getting under the skin.....
Even without outright personal attacks,
taking a flaming or ludicrous position that just wrecks and spoils a thread is antogonistic, while still technically legal here. An abuse.
It comes off as using lighter fluid and a match saying, "I'm just lighting my way." SOME people are that way.
Hope it's gone.
Quote: WizardThat is called an ad-hominem argument, which he often identified others making.
When someone indicated their dislike for him, he had to assume it was ad-hominem since no one in the world is actually capable of disliking mkl.
BTW I voted "don't care." But I dn't think teeth is wannabe-Jerry simply because it's so unnecessary. Mkl left the board. He wasn't banned and there were no preconditions for his return, past serving a week's suspension. Why go to all the trouble of setting up a sock puppet then? If he wanted to return to the baord all he had to do was log back in on Feb. 28th.
While we're on the subject, is calling a poster "an mkl" or "a Jerry Logan," or any variation or combination thereof, considered a personal insult?
Quote: NareedQuote: WizardThat is called an ad-hominem argument, which he often identified others making.
While we're on the subject, is calling a poster "an mkl" or "a Jerry Logan," or any variation or combination thereof, considered a personal insult?
You're right Nareed it could be. Perhaps I should seek redress from the Wizard. :}).
Quote: WizardHere is the report by webmaster JB:
In case you care, most people don't like their IPs and locations disclosed publicly without consent, and consider it violation of their privacy, so you might want to remove that from your post.
Quote: NareedWhile we're on the subject, is calling a poster "an mkl" or "a Jerry Logan," or any variation or combination thereof, considered a personal insult?
It would depend on the context.
Quote: weaselmanIn case you care, most people don't like their IPs and locations disclosed publicly without consent, and consider it violation of their privacy, so you might want to remove that from your post.
Fair point. Mkl stated he lived in Oregon, so I think that is fair. However, I did just edit out the country of origin of teeth. I also removed the trailing digits from the IPs.
In the future I'm not going to so easily do these investigations.
Quote: WizardIn the future I'm not going to so easily do these investigations.
Actually I would like it if we could let JL and MKL fade into the night. I doubt anyone here liked both of them and no one liked their general behavior. A thread has even started saying how nice it is without them and how even other people are getting along better. Maybe we could all resolve on March 21, 30 days after both have been gone, to move on?
Quote: WizardIt would depend on the context.
Noted.
I won't ask you to divulge a PM, and you wouldn't if I asked, but I'm willing to lay odds one reaon mkl "resigned" was that Jerry got banned. Come to think of it, he probably wouldn't admit it in even in a PM.
Quote:In the future I'm not going to so easily do these investigations.
Good for you. They're mostly pointless anyway. I mean no disrespect to JB, but I'm sure there's a simple way to show a fake IP address. Anonimization tools have been around about as long as the Internet. Remember the old anon.penet.fi domain? Not to mention that prior to posting here, I'd have sworn PGP stood for "Pretty Good Privacy."
Ah, nostalgia: the sure sign one is getting old :P
Quote: Nareed
Good for you. They're mostly pointless anyway. I mean no disrespect to JB, but I'm sure there's a simple way to show a fake IP address. Anonimization tools have been around about as long as the Internet.
Yes, it is easy to hide your real IP. But to hide it in a way that it would not be easily noticeable that you are hiding it is not trivial at all.
(If you are using an anonymizer, you'll be showing anonymizer's IP, which usually is pretty obvious).
Quote: AZDuffmanActually I would like it if we could let JL and MKL fade into the night. I doubt anyone here liked both of them and no one liked their general behavior. A thread has even started saying how nice it is without them and how even other people are getting along better. Maybe we could all resolve on March 21, 30 days after both have been gone, to move on?
I think a better idea would be to let them back but with very limited priviledges. Picture this: A quarantined thread devoted just to MKL and Jerry Logan that would be in some corner of the home page so it wouldn't be the first thing new subscribers see. In this thread MKL and Jerry could fight it out indefinitely and regular members could contribute if they wanted to. This would ensure a more peaceful forum for everyone but access to the train wreck most of us secretly enjoy when we wanted. It would of course need a warning label.
Quote: clarkacalI think a better idea would be to let them back but with very limited priviledges. Picture this: A quarantined thread devoted just to MKL and Jerry Logan that would be in some corner of the home page so it wouldn't be the first thing new subscribers see. In this thread MKL and Jerry could fight it out indefinitely and regular members could contribute if they wanted to. This would ensure a more peaceful forum for everyone but access to the train wreck most of us secretly enjoy when we wanted. It would of course need a warning label.
Good idea in theory but it would never work. Jerry was a troll, and trolls live solely to disrupt and destroy online communities. If he were limited in such a way that it's easy to ignore him, he would eventually start acting up in other places to get attention and get perma-banned again.
Quote: OneAngryDwarfJerry was a troll, and trolls live solely to disrupt and destroy online communities.
And MKL wasn't? His goal was to be the most frequent poster, invade every thread, and insult and belittle anyone who didn't agree with him. Thats what a Troll does.
Quote: clarkacalThis would ensure a more peaceful forum for everyone but access to the train wreck most of us secretly enjoy when we wanted.
For now you will have to make due with what Charlie Sheen puts out I guess.
Quote: EvenBobAnd MKL wasn't? His goal was to be the most frequent poster, invade every thread, and insult and belittle anyone who didn't agree with him. Thats what a Troll does.
I know you had your disagreements with him, but I agree with the Wizard on this one...during that month when Jerry was banned and mkl was still here, he made some worthwhile contributions. He had some controversial opinions, sure, but more often than not they stimulated some interesting discussion.
Quote: EvenBobAnd MKL wasn't? His goal was to be the most frequent poster, invade every thread, and insult and belittle anyone who didn't agree with him. Thats what a Troll does.
When I first came here and disagreed with JL, EnvyBonus thought I was mkl, then you and JL piled on. And you wonder why there aren't more females here?
Not everyone is mkl.
Quote: FarFromVegas
Not everyone is mkl.
I'm mkl!
oh, sorry, Im Spartacus. Its easy to get confused.
You only have to look at the "The Dreaded Variance" thread to realise what the negatives are.
Where are you going to get that sort of incisive analysis now?
Like him or not, MKL made more contributions than most people.
Quote: NareedNo, not even that. He's done his time by the rules and he can get back in simply by getting back in.
I saw his name back at the top of the Top Contributors list and on the logged in members list.
Welcome back Mkl, and may your temper be cool as the weather where I am.
Quote: CroupierI saw his name back at the top of the Top Contributors list and on the logged in members list.
Welcome back Mkl, and may your temper be cool as the weather where I am.
I give him six months. Seven tops. Anyone care to set a pool?
Quote: CroupierI saw his name back at the top of the Top Contributors list and on the logged in members list.
Sigh... I'm back to #2 again.
But welcome back!