Midnight
Poll
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| | 16 votes (64%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) |
25 members have voted
Or is it something else?
Of course, that leaves the question of when the day ends, if it is not at the same time that a new one begins, supporting "both", but I view that moment of midnight as being part of the new day.
Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if there is a claim for an event that occurs exactly at midnight....
However, the English speaking population seems to be evenly divided between those who feel midnight falls on the old day, the new day, and just aren't sure. For this reason, if I see a coupon or promotion that starts/end on midnight, I can't trust the person who wrote it knew the correct definition. This is a particular problem with Internet bonuses. The Golden Palace 20% bonus, which I wrote about in another thread, made this mistake for two years, despite my many Emails about it.
As DJ wrote, to avoid confusion, I recommend starting and ending promotions at 12:01 AM rather than midnight. That is what my insurance company does.
Quote: WizardAs DJ wrote, to avoid confusion, I recommend starting and ending promotions at 12:01 AM rather than midnight. That is what my insurance company does.
That's a little like a baker's dozen, right? Just making it unmistakable.
When it comes to time people are clueless anyway. We celebrate the end of the year at midnight on Dec. 31st, even though the year still has about 6 hours left to run. The calendar needs a correction every 4 years, leap years, to compensate for this (of course it's not exactly 6 hours, so this over-corrects and 3 leap years need to be taken off every 400 years).
There's also the matter of simple counting. The current era started in year 1 AD. meaning the first decade ended in the year 10 AD and the second started on the year 11 AD. That's why the Millennium started on 2001, not 2000. It's perfectly simple, but try and get, I fear, 99.9999999999999999999999999% of humanity to comprehend this (present company excepted, of course).
Quote: AyecarumbaOr is it something else?
I'm the guy who first voted "Neither". Like most of you, I was all ready to just click "Beginning of the day", when I stopped to think.
MIDnight should be the instant BETWEEN two days. It is not measurable as a "time" of either 24.00.00 or 00.00.00.
Wikipedia appears to back this idea up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight
The forum posters on the whole are a relatively intelligent bunch, I invite you to reconsider. If the Wizard himself changes his view, I will feel vindicated!
Incidentally, my wife and child took a 23.59 flight last night, so the airlines at least have either learned the hard way or got some intelligent staff.
Quote: NareedWe celebrate the end of the year at midnight on Dec. 31st, even though the year still has about 6 hours left to run. The calendar needs a correction every 4 years, leap years, to compensate for this (of course it's not exactly 6 hours, so this over-corrects and 3 leap years need to be taken off every 400 years).
At the risk of going off topic, I think you're being too much of a perfectionist. Yes, it takes 365.24 days for the earth to revolve around the sun. However, the way a "year" is commonly defined has 365 days in some years, and 366 in others. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Quote: NareedThere's also the matter of simple counting. The current era started in year 1 AD. meaning the first decade ended in the year 10 AD and the second started on the year 11 AD. That's why the Millennium started on 2001, not 2000.
This is a topic that has been over-debated. I have no problem with either position. You're technically right, but I was not one of those trying to throw cold water over those who wanted to celebrate the new millennium on 1/1/2000. I recall this was debated vociferously on another board I belonged to at the time. There have been so many adjustments to the calendar that it is hard to date things within a year that happened 2000 years ago anyway.
Quote: WizardAt the risk of going off topic, I think you're being too much of a perfectionist. Yes, it takes 365.24 days for the earth to revolve around the sun. However, the way a "year" is commonly defined has 365 days in some years, and 366 in others. I'm perfectly fine with that.
What bothers me, a little, is that people are exacting on counting down the moment the year ends. They have to do something, be it kissing, hugging, drinking, yelling, etc, at exactly midnight. So it amuses me they're all wrong at the same time.
Quote:This is a topic that has been over-debated. I have no problem with either position. You're technically right, but I was not one of those trying to throw cold water over those who wanted to celebrate the new millennium on 1/1/2000.
My beef there is the problem people have understanding the concept of counting from 1 to 10, versus counting from 0 to ten. Of course people are more clueless at math than they are with time.
We celebrate at midnight because everyone else does. If it was the social norm to celebrate the millenium on 1/1/2001 or new year's at 6 in the morning, noon and 6 pm every year, we'd do it.
Quote: DocI think "military" time shows midnight as 00:00 hours, not 24:00 hours...
Although that said, there was a sign outside Fort Huachuca's east (?) entrance that gave its hours as 0500 - 2400. Granted, it might not have been an official military sign, and it might have been "corrected" (I haven't been down that way in years), but it stuck in my mind.
Quote: NareedWhat bothers me, a little, is that people are exacting on counting down the moment the year ends. They have to do something, be it kissing, hugging, drinking, yelling, etc, at exactly midnight. So it amuses me they're all wrong at the same time.
I think you're all by yourself in that position.
Quote: NareedMy beef there is the problem people have understanding the concept of counting from 1 to 10, versus counting from 0 to ten. Of course people are more clueless at math than they are with time.
I wrote a while back how I find it annoying when people rate things on a 1 to 10 scale. It should be 0 to 10. Don't even get me started about those who go outside the scale. Maybe those who celebrated the new millennium on 1/1/2000 are trying to correct for the earlier error of making the first year 1.
Quote: WizardI think you're all by yourself in that position.
I'm sure I am :)
Quote:I wrote a while back how I find it annoying when people rate things on a 1 to 10 scale. It should be 0 to 10. Don't even get me started about those who go outside the scale.
I know. People who also don't quite grasp the notion of a set scale.
Quote:Maybe those who celebrated the new millennium on 1/1/2000 are trying to correct for the earlier error of making the first year 1.
A proper correction would require we substract one year, and that can't be done.
Next best thing is we measure a person's first year of life, post-birth, in zero years and x months. That way you're one after you've been alive for one year, and so forth. So at least ages indicate time accomplished :)
Quote: Wavy70To mix it up more traditionally in East Asian cultures they consider a baby is born at 1 years and the age goes up on the lunar new year.
I agree with the first part. As I understand it, they credit everyone a year for time in utero. The part about the lunar new year I have never heard of.
By the way, happy Chinese New Year!
Was the first year, really year 1?Quote: WizardMaybe those who celebrated the new millennium on 1/1/2000 are trying to correct for the earlier error of making the first year 1.
I don't want to start a debate about that here, but I know it's been debated by greater minds than ours.
For the record, I think a lot of people are now aware of the confusion. Some people choose to be 'wrong' for no reason other than to be argumentative, others, because the wrong year has a nice round number ring to it.
Also, there was no denying that New Year 2000 was a big deal because of the Y2K bug. As such, it was hard to hold the new millennia off for another year. That helped the 'wrong' thinkers in their cause....
On a side note, I still find it funny that the biggest reported Y2K problem that I heard of was that the slot machines at Dover Downs Delaware stopped working.
On another side note, the greatest thing I ever heard about the Y2K bug was this: "Trust the computer industry to shorten 'Year 2000' to 'Y2K'. It was this sort of thinking that caused the problem in the first place."
Quote: DJTeddyBearWas the first year, really year 1?
Not in the sense that Jesus was born and people then started the next year counting it as one. I don't know when the Christian Era was instituted, but ti ahppened in the Roman Empire. The Romans had no number to represent zero, therefore they counted from one, therefore there was a year 1 of the Chrsitan era in retrospect.
BTW the lack of a zero is one of the great failings of the Romans. But perhaps zero dind't fit into the Roman numeral system.
Quote:On another side note, the greatest thing I ever heard about the Y2K bug was this: "Trust the computer industry to shorten 'Year 2000' to 'Y2K'. It was this sort of thinking that caused the problem in the first place."
:)
You know the problem was the date on many systems was represented by using only two digits for the year, done that way to save computer memory. An article I read late in the 90s criticized this practice as unnecessary, but then pointed out dates show up a LOT in all kinds of software. meaning there was a need to spare resources by using shortcuts.
BTW I grasped a bit of this problem, indirectly, in 1976! How? I saw a stack of balnk invoices that had the date area with the year printed as "197__" and I thought "Won't they be useles in 1980?" Of course printing new ones was easy.
At work I had to get new versions of three programs in order to solve the big bad bug problem. I did a lot more work convincing our customers I was on top of things and they'd have zero problems with us.
Yeah, in the 90's the price of storage had come down enough that it was FINALLY unnecessary. But when the two digit year got started, back in the 40s, every byte cost big-time. Plus, they knew the problem they were creating wouldn't rear it's ugly head in their lifetimes...Quote: NareedAn article I read late in the 90s criticized this practice as unnecessary...
Answering those questions was my job too.Quote: NareedAt work I had to get new versions of three programs in order to solve the big bad bug problem. I did a lot more work convincing our customers I was on top of things and they'd have zero problems with us.
Many customers, and vendors, sent standardized inquiry forms.
One customer sent a ten page document, via certified mail, with a request that it be notorized upon completion. Man were they serious! Instead of answering, I checked our billing records. In the prior 36 months, they had a grand total of two invoices, for a total of about $300. And they paid them late. Yeah, their questionaire went right into the circular file!
Quote: DJTeddyBearYeah, in the 90's the price of storage had come down enough that it was FINALLY unnecessary. But when the two digit year got started, back in the 40s, every byte cost big-time. Plus, they knew the problem they were creating wouldn't rear it's ugly head in their lifetimes...
In the early 90s RAM was expensive and HD meant hard drive, not high-def, and they were expensive, too. Today a 2GB thumb drive is practically a throw-away. In the days of punch cards and magnetic tape, well, i know little about that but obviously both memory and CPU time were at a premium.
Quote:One customer sent a ten page document, via certified mail, with a request that it be notorized upon completion. Man were they serious! Instead of answering, I checked our billing records. In the prior 36 months, they had a grand total of two invoices, for a total of about $300. And they paid them late. Yeah, their questionaire went right into the circular file!
We've had customers like that. One wanted us to get a $2,000+ software package to make our invoices compatible with their systems. We billed them around $100 a month! Pass. Another had a slightly different way of calculating the sales tax, so sometimes out invoices for in-store commissions were off by 1 cent (that's one cent of a peso, not even a dollar. In real terms it's nothing), so they wanted a credit note to make up the difference. What I did was send a one peso coin with the next invoice, and a note saying "Here, this covers us for six or seven years. Call me when it runs out." ;)
On the other hand our big customer sent us bi-monthly reports on sales, which I just copied for the invoice, and paid in full and on time in 7 days.
Quote: WizardThe part about the lunar new year I have never heard of.
Japan has something called Coming of Age Day, where everyone that turned twenty over the previous year has a "party" about reaching adulthood. That might be related.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWas the first year, really year 1?
I don't want to start a debate about that here, but I know it's been debated by greater minds than ours.
For the record, I think a lot of people are now aware of the confusion. Some people choose to be 'wrong' for no reason other than to be argumentative, others, because the wrong year has a nice round number ring to it.
Also, there was no denying that New Year 2000 was a big deal because of the Y2K bug. As such, it was hard to hold the new millennia off for another year. That helped the 'wrong' thinkers in their cause....
On a side note, I still find it funny that the biggest reported Y2K problem that I heard of was that the slot machines at Dover Downs Delaware stopped working.
On another side note, the greatest thing I ever heard about the Y2K bug was this: "Trust the computer industry to shorten 'Year 2000' to 'Y2K'. It was this sort of thinking that caused the problem in the first place."
I'm no calendar expert but as best I understand things, there was no Year 0. in other words, the calendar read 12-31-1BC, then midnight struck (or 12:01, apologies to Wizard), and the calendar then read 1-1-0001. (Yes, I know they didn't mark time then the way we do now, which leads to ...)
(Not worrying about what I understand about the current best guess of Jesus's birth actually being about 3-4 years BC. No big deal, though, all that was set in a different age, and by the time they found the mistake, it was probably impractical to bump everything back three years. Then we'd have the Philadelphia 79ers and the San Francisco 52ers.)
Anyway, I think this because of all the sort-of debate on when the millenium ended - did it end on 12-31-1999 or 12-31-2000? The answer was debated back-and-forth by those who find it interesting to debate such things. I didn't care, I just liked the goofy "2000" novelty specatcles where the two middle 00s were for your eyes to look through.
But the one thing I think both sides agreed on was that there was no Year 0. "The spring equinox falls on March 21, 0."
If that's true, then 2011 is not marked the same way westerners mark birthdays. It's the 2011th year since the turn of the calendar, meaning the earth has circled the sun 2010 times since then and is presently on its 2011th circle.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWas the first year, really year 1?
You never hear about a year zero. I don't want to get into the whole history of the calendar, but I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church established the first year as 1 sometime after the fact.
Trivia Time: In what year were 10 days dropped from the month of October? This was done by skipping over Oct 5-14.
Quote: WizardYou never hear about a year zero. I don't want to get into the whole history of the calendar, but I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church established the first year as 1 sometime after the fact.
Trivia Time: In what year were 10 days dropped from the month of October? This was done by skipping over Oct 5-14.
Just a guess ... didn't it have something to do with the discovery of leap years? That would have put it, oh, in the 16th century or so, maybe?
Guess that would have been 1582, when the Catholic-dominated countries converted from the Julian to Gregorian calendars. Other countries converted later, some as late as the 20th century.Quote: WizardTrivia Time: In what year were 10 days dropped from the month of October? This was done by skipping over Oct 5-14.
Quote: WizardTrivia Time: In what year were 10 days dropped from the month of October? This was done by skipping over Oct 5-14.
Where? In the Brittish empire and its possesions it wasn't til the 18th Century, and this includes what is now the US. In Russia it didn't happen til after the October revolution (which didn't take place in October), and the Russian Orthodox Church hasn't changed its calendar as far as I know. In the rest of the world, it mostly happened sooner.
BTW the reason for the drop in days are leap years. Originally there was a leap year every four years without fail, but this over-corrects the calendar, since the year is not quite 365.25 days long. The reform omits leap years in years ending on 00, such as 1800 and 1900, unless they are evenly divisible by 400, which made 2000 a leap year (and that was another worry in the Y2K mini-era).
OooPs! I just noticed the Wizard specified October. That would be the British adjustment, but I can't pin it down more than in thE 18th Century, not too long before the American Revolution.
Quote: DJTeddyBearMany legal documents, including insurance policies, avoid the topic entirely by stating that it is valid from 12:01am xx/xx/xx thru 11:59pm xx/xx/xx.
Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if there is a claim for an event that occurs exactly at midnight....
I wonder even more about 11.59.0000.....01 PM and 12.00.99999..... AM. That 2 minute span just doesn't exist? Can time fly that fast?
When clocks for sports events started counting down the final minute in tenths of a second, I have noticed that they go from 1:01 to 1:00 to 59.9... 1.1, 1.0, 0.9... 0.0.
The question is, is that adding an extra second of game time since 'in the old days' the buzzer would sound immediately when the clock hit 0:00 while now the clock must display 0.9 to 0.0 then sound the buzzer?
Quote: WizardI agree with the first part. As I understand it, they credit everyone a year for time in utero. The part about the lunar new year I have never heard of.
By the way, happy Chinese New Year!
Dammit, I forgot to wish everyone a happy National Gorilla Suit Day (Jan. 31)!
Quote: slytherThe question is, is that adding an extra second of game time since 'in the old days' the buzzer would sound immediately when the clock hit 0:00 while now the clock must display 0.9 to 0.0 then sound the buzzer?
The solution is to do away with the buzzer. In Football the game ends when there's no time on the clock and the ongoing play ends. In basketball they could make it when the time runs out and the ball is on the ground. I don't know what other sport uses a buzzer.
I know I have heard them at soccer games. Field hockey and lacrosse, also, I think. Probably some other field games, too. Never been to a polo match -- anyone know for certain about that? I think I remember them at some scholastic wrestling matches, too.Quote: Nareed... I don't know what other sport uses a buzzer.
Quote: DocI know I have heard them at soccer games. Field hockey and lacrosse, also, I think. Probably some other field games, too. Never been to a polo match -- anyone know for certain about that? I think I remember them at some scholastic wrestling matches, too.
At the World Clown Championships, wearing and use of buzzers by contestants is mandatory.
Quote: DocI know I have heard them at soccer games.
It's a sport? Really? :P
The rest simply don't strike me as popular enough, not in this hemisphere, to warrant any worry ;)
Quote: DJTeddyBearOne customer sent a ten page document, via certified mail, with a request that it be notorized upon completion. Man were they serious! Instead of answering, I checked our billing records. In the prior 36 months, they had a grand total of two invoices, for a total of about $300. And they paid them late. Yeah, their questionaire went right into the circular file!
I got lots in 1998-9. I was lucky to just be able to send it to our IT department. But one was funny. We had many divisions and sometimes we served each other but billed like any other customer. I got one letter FROM OUR OWN COMPANY! Halarious.
Quote: NareedThe solution is to do away with the buzzer. In Football the game ends when there's no time on the clock and the ongoing play ends. In basketball they could make it when the time runs out and the ball is on the ground. I don't know what other sport uses a buzzer.
I referee NCAA soccer and sadly we use a buzzer in that.
Don't forget Hockey.
