Last Call

So often I read (here and elsewhere) about why smoking and smokers in general are vilified and to an extent I can understand why this is so. What gets me is how often the people who rail against smoking usually have a beer in their hand.

I used to DJ in night clubs and I've seen some pretty nasty things happen when people drink too much - guys get into bloody fights, people drink and drive and end up killing themselves or someone else, people become dependent on alcohol and their lives take a downward spiral, guys take home women they wouldn't be caught dead with when sober... not good. Even a small amount of alcohol in the blood impairs your ability to perceive the world around you.

So, how many here can imagine a world with no alcohol? No beer at the game, no wine at dinner, no drinks in the casino, no booze at the night clubs, no champagne at New Year's, no alcohol... period. What would happen to all of those bars, clubs, restaurants and casinos? We know that alcohol revenue keeps many of these places open.

It is my opinion that more people are dependent upon alcohol than there are people who smoke. It is also my opinion that those who are dependent upon alcohol will not admit it. They'll say things like, "Hey, I just like to have a cold one after work" or, "I enjoy a good meal more with a nice wine" or, "I don't need to drink, I just like to be social". I'd say that if there was no alcohol, most people would be completely lost without this crutch to lean on.

I'm not comparing the pitfalls of drinking with the perils of smoking. I'm not saying that second hand smoke does not affect non-smokers. I'm simply suggesting that most adults could not imagine going through life without alcohol. I'm not saying that everyone wants to get drunk. I am saying that most people NEED to have a drink and although they wouldn't admit it, they couldn't go without that drink for any extended period of time.

So here's the question... could the world make it for one year with no alcohol? Could you?

Well there is a big difference between smoking and alcohol. Not talking about extremes but many doctors will say it is good to have a glass of wine a day. Not many will say it's OK to smoke a few cigarettes. I am not a smoker but I never had a problem wiht it. but will Vegas be smoke free in the next 50 years? Yup unless they can cure COPD and lung cancer you will see less and less smokers. Just look at the smoke rack at a 7/11 and think back 20 years ago about the size of the rack. My wife laughs when I tell her about smoking in hospitals and at the supermarket.

Plus you have many casual drinkers. But very few smokers that are not hooked. Not many drinkers have a few on the way to work or leave the office a few times a day to pound a few beers in the parking lot at work or have a few on the car ride home from work.

Quote: TheNightfly

I'm not comparing the pitfalls of drinking with the perils of smoking. I'm not saying that second hand smoke does not affect non-smokers. I'm simply suggesting that most adults could not imagine going through life without alcohol. I'm not saying that everyone wants to get drunk. I am saying that most people NEED to have a drink and although they wouldn't admit it, they couldn't go without that drink for any extended period of time.

So here's the question... could the world make it for one year with no alcohol? Could you?

I certainly could. But that's simply my personal preference. There's nothing special about alcohol, though--it's one of hundreds of addictive substances. I wouldn't go so far as to say that "most" people "need" to have a drink, i.e., are alcoholics/addicts. They might LIKE to have a drink, but that in itself doesn't qualify as "addiction", any more than my liking General Tso's Chicken makes me a Chinese food addict.

Unless someone gets drunk and runs over my poodle or throws up on my shoes, I am not directly affected by someone's enjoying an alcoholic beverage. Smoking is another matter--if someone smokes in public, they directly harm others. So the only real negative to alcohol consumption is the effects of EXCESSIVE consumption--to the point where it alters people's behavior and/or makes them a danger to themselves or others. And frankly, I don't see that very often at all. I see far more people having a glass of beer or wine, or a cocktail, with their meal or with their slot machine, and doing no harm to anyone while doing so, than I see drunks staggering around and crashing into things.

So I think the world would survive without alcohol. (We'd all just smoke pot.)

Quote: mkl654321

There's nothing special about alcohol, though--it's one of hundreds of addictive substances. I wouldn't go so far as to say that "most" people "need" to have a drink, i.e., are alcoholics/addicts.

All this obsession with addiction would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Alcohol is not addictive. And neither is tobacco, sex, internet or gambling. Just because you like doing something, it does not mean you are addicted to it, or that "that is who you are". It is sure easy and appealing to just blame "addiction", and claim that you are powerless against it, but it doesn't make you an addict, it just makes you a wuss.
Now, there ARE indeed substances, that really are addictive chemically - like heroin or cocaine or amphetamines (but NOT pot or acid) - that means that withdrawal causes you physical suffering, but most of the time people use the term nowadays .... when they say somebody is addicted to something, all it means is that he just likes it.
This is similar to the sexual orientation. Perhaps, you can't make yourself like women, but you sure CAN stop having sex with men, but it is always positioned as if it would be impossible (just as if you were an addict).
Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against gays (or anybody else) whatsoever, I am talking about media and propaganda here, not about people or groups of people.

Re. smoking vs. alcohol ... I do agree, the former is way more dangerous. But I think, that the negativity to the smokers has more to do with that ugly smelly smoke that they make everybody around them breeze in. Personally, I don't care about second hand smoking, I just don't want to breeze that smoke, because I find it gross. If it is outside, and the wind is blowing away from me, I have no problem with it whatsoever - smoke away.

Quote: Wavy70

Well there is a big difference between smoking and alcohol. Not talking about extremes but many doctors will say it is good to have a glass of wine a day. Not many will say it's OK to smoke a few cigarettes. I am not a smoker but I never had a problem wiht it. but will Vegas be smoke free in the next 50 years? Yup unless they can cure COPD and lung cancer you will see less and less smokers. Just look at the smoke rack at a 7/11 and think back 20 years ago about the size of the rack. My wife laughs when I tell her about smoking in hospitals and at the supermarket.

At the supermarket-that brings back memories. I entered the workforce via the grocery store and hated people who smoked there mainly because I hate to say it again, but most smokers are really pigs with their butts. People who would not throw trash on the floor throw butts everywere. And as a young kid I was one who had to clean them up. Anyways, we had one lady manager who was extremely anti-smoking. The instant she saw someone light up she would get on the PA and announce, "just a reminder, smoking is not allowed in a retail grocery store." The place was signed "no smoking" but even in 1988 or so it was selectively enforced. The night shift workers could not function without smoking while working. The one time I really remember I was working the express line right by the office and a guy lights up. He took one puff and she came out of the office and assisted my line, but I knew. She instantly said, "Sir, that is not allowed in here!" He asked if she was kidding then got POed at having to stamp out a cig he took just 1-2 drags from. I loved it and it was the right thing to do, but back then it looked like an extreme move.

On the alcohol thing, could I go a year? Sure. I enjoy the taset of a cold beer, but it is not my life. Could the country do it? No, same as if we magically banned cigarettes too many people would go crazy. But alcohol is different. You need to seperate "alcoholics" from "heavy drinkers." There are lots of heavy drinkers out there, but it does not control their life. Others party, get hung over, then miss work as they sleep until noon. Or live on calories from booze and not food. Most of us have seen some of this. Banning it isn't an answer.

Quote: TheNightfly

So here's the question... could the world make it for one year with no alcohol? Could you?

I would not claim to say that I know what you have gone through in your life, but you do sound like something has made you a neo-prohibitionist. It's odd to me when ex-drinkers [if that's what you are] go this route, instead of urging moderation. Perhaps you didnt intend this to be taken that way.

To answer your question, it is quite interesting to me that there is no society on earth that has successfully eliminated the use of substances for escape and whatever. If it were the right thing to have done to prosper, that culture would have taken over the world ... the rest of us would have gone the way of the Neanderthals. For that matter maybe the problem with those cavemen was they hadn't invented booze ? And, no, I would not like it a bit if someone took my liquor away for a year. I did quit smoking cigarettes 30 years ago.

Quote: weaselman

It is sure easy and appealing to just blame "addiction", and claim that you are powerless against it, but it doesn't make you an addict, it just makes you a wuss.
Now, there ARE indeed substances, that really are addictive chemically - like heroin or cocaine or amphetamines (but NOT pot or acid) - that means that withdrawal causes you physical suffering, but most of the time people use the term nowadays .... when they say somebody is addicted to something, all it means is that he just likes it.

I agree with you somewhat, although I personally don't make out people with these problems as wusses. Certainly the term "addicted" is over-used and can be unhelpfully employed.

Quote: AZDuffman

At the supermarket-that brings back memories. I entered the workforce via the grocery store and hated people who smoked there mainly because I hate to say it again, but most smokers are really pigs with their butts.

An interesting development is the resentment people have now over how many breaks smokers want to take. That used to go largely unnoticed, but really stands out now that they have to march outside or whatever.

Quote: TheNightfly

So here's the question... could the world make it for one year with no alcohol? Could you?

Oh, not only I'm sure I can, I've done it. I think I do it regularly.

I've three reasons for this:

1) I got very drunk while attending language school in Cambridge, England, back in 1985. I wound up getting pneumonia and spending a week in bed, far from home. I swore then I'd never get drunk ever again. And I never have since.

2) Drinking is expensive, unless you like beer. I don't like beer :) When I drink it's usually vodka, tequila and once in a while gin (I do like a good Gin and Tonic, but few bars have diet tonic), plus white wine from time to time. I'd rathe use the money in other things.

3) Drinking is counter-indicated in hormone replacement therapy (HRT). This involves with massive doses of hormones an supporting players which wind up one way or antoher in the liver after being used up, therefore it is recommended not to stress the liver any more by drinking. I haven't begun HRT, but I will soon (I hope soon anyway). So it seems a good idea to get into the no-alcohol habit early.

But it's no big deal to me. I've wanted a drink many times, but I don't think I ever needed one.

Quote: TheNightfly

So, how many here can imagine a world with no alcohol? No beer at the game, no wine at dinner, no drinks in the casino, no booze at the night clubs, no champagne at New Year's, no alcohol... period. What would happen to all of those bars, clubs, restaurants and casinos? We know that alcohol revenue keeps many of these places open ...
So here's the question... could the world make it for one year with no alcohol? Could you?

Sure, I can imagine it. United States of America, 1919-1933. It was the "Noble Experiment." It was indeed noble, but the experiment failed. People simply can't live without alcohol. It's a drug, plain and simple. Fortunately or unfortunately, history has made it more acceptable and less regulated than other drugs.

That would be a sad sad world.

I also make my living by crafting beers for the public to drink, so I'd really hate to have to move my profession underground.


The key to everything in this world is moderation. It's the few bad apples who overindulge and do stupid things who get the ball rolling in order to ruin it for the rest of the responsible ones. I'm a big believer in personable responsibility (which the government is becoming increasingly against), so I like (for the most part) the current alcohol laws, a few states excluded. While I do agree in some places the ban on cigarettes have crossed the line, I am 100% happy with their ban in places where I can't avoid the smoke (bars and restaurants in particular)

I define adiction as a substance or action one enjoys taking or doing, and which cannot be given up with a minnimum of efort.

For example, I used to snack on peanuts or pumpkin seeds while browsing the web. I gave that up 6 weeks ago and all I had to endure were two days when I felt I missed it. That was habit, albeit a pleasant one, not addiction.

In contrast I get really uneasy if I go for more than a couple of hours without a smoke, unless I'm sleeping or very concentrated on some task. As for quitting, which I've tried seriously only once, Im reminded of this quote "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it a dozen times."

I didn't read through the entire post...however I will say...
Look at Prohibition...they say it was the bloodiest time in history...So what is that saying about us as a society? We'll literally KILL for alcohol.
I doubt much has changed in today's society either.
I was actually just speaking to my friend about this. Amazing as it may sound, I'm 28 and have never purposefully went to a bar (I've only been DRAGGED to a bar like three times, which I only stayed for a few minutes to please someone else, then left), nor do I "drink" (I may have an alcoholic beverage once a month, if that)
It's AMAZING the amount of people 21-35 who literally can't go a week (some not even a day) without alcohol; and as you say, most say they "like to be social". It's gottten to the point, where I KID YOU NOT, I don't know anyone who does not drink at least once a week.
Just mind boggling, really.

Quote: TIMSPEED

It's AMAZING the amount of people 21-35 who literally can't go a week (some not even a day) without alcohol; and as you say, most say they "like to be social". It's gottten to the point, where I KID YOU NOT, I don't know anyone who does not drink at least once a week.
Just mind boggling, really.

People who continue to insist they are "social drinkers" while drinking heavily once a week or more are usually -- but not always -- alcoholics. If you see a continued pattern of self-destructive behavior, it would be wise to consider some kind of intervention.

Quote: teddys

People who continue to insist they are "social drinkers" while drinking heavily once a week or more are usually -- but not always -- alcoholics. If you see a continued pattern of self-destructive behavior, it would be wise to consider some kind of intervention.

There livers will thank them later, for drinking so much now...