Societal Collapse/ Extinction
Poll
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23 members have voted
Quote: odiousgambithttps://slate.com/technology/2025/08/millennials-gen-z-death-rates-america-high.html
link to original post
That is a political article. Not complaining or suggesting you personally are being political, but when something is political you know that accurate conveyance of information is not its primary purpose and its claims and conclusions have to be viewed in that light. On the other side of the political spectrum the excess deaths are regularly attributed to compliance with the things this Slate article regards as salvific.
My own take on it is that it is partially attributable to behaviors of the younger generations that are mostly stereotypes (dependence on drugs licit and illicit, lack of interest in physical conditioning, ideologies and habits that lead to mental illness, unnatural acts) but stereotypes don't just materialize out of nowhere. I realize it is only a small percentage of those generations that is "like that," but the real number of excess deaths is also a small percentage, when expressed as a percentage.
More significant might be the decline in the native and the First World birthrate, leading to most of our population increase coming from immigration over the affected generations, and suffice it to say that the immigrant populations we have been attracting over that period are not the finest examples of humanity to ever set foot on our shores. This is especially so when we are talking about illegal immigration and that population consists mostly of people who have already been in trouble in their native countries. When you have these little dictators emptying out their prisons and mental institutions at our expense, I see no way that does not lead to a decrease in the physical and mental health of our population. Our own native population that is in those categories has poor health and abbreviated lives.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: odiousgambithttps://slate.com/technology/2025/08/millennials-gen-z-death-rates-america-high.html
link to original post
That is a political article. Not complaining or suggesting you personally are being political, but when something is political you know that accurate conveyance of information is not its primary purpose and its claims and conclusions have to be viewed in that light. On the other side of the political spectrum the excess deaths are regularly attributed to compliance with the things this Slate article regards as salvific.
My own take on it is that it is partially attributable to behaviors of the younger generations that are mostly stereotypes (dependence on drugs licit and illicit, lack of interest in physical conditioning, ideologies and habits that lead to mental illness, unnatural acts) but stereotypes don't just materialize out of nowhere. I realize it is only a small percentage of those generations that is "like that," but the real number of excess deaths is also a small percentage, when expressed as a percentage.
More significant might be the decline in the native and the First World birthrate, leading to most of our population increase coming from immigration over the affected generations, and suffice it to say that the immigrant populations we have been attracting over that period are not the finest examples of humanity to ever set foot on our shores. This is especially so when we are talking about illegal immigration and that population consists mostly of people who have already been in trouble in their native countries. When you have these little dictators emptying out their prisons and mental institutions at our expense, I see no way that does not lead to a decrease in the physical and mental health of our population. Our own native population that is in those categories has poor health and abbreviated lives.
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Was that written in NYC in 1852, targeting the Irish, or in 1870, targeting the Italians? In San Francisco in the 1890s against the Chinese or in florida in the 1960s about the Cubans and Puerto Ricans?
When in American History did America attract the best and brightest from other societys? People on the top of the social chain don't tend to leave; it is the poor and unwashed who leave their homes in search of a better life. Georgia was founded by a dictator emptying his prisons and sending them there.
Quote: billryanQuote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: odiousgambithttps://slate.com/technology/2025/08/millennials-gen-z-death-rates-america-high.html
link to original post
That is a political article. Not complaining or suggesting you personally are being political, but when something is political you know that accurate conveyance of information is not its primary purpose and its claims and conclusions have to be viewed in that light. On the other side of the political spectrum the excess deaths are regularly attributed to compliance with the things this Slate article regards as salvific.
My own take on it is that it is partially attributable to behaviors of the younger generations that are mostly stereotypes (dependence on drugs licit and illicit, lack of interest in physical conditioning, ideologies and habits that lead to mental illness, unnatural acts) but stereotypes don't just materialize out of nowhere. I realize it is only a small percentage of those generations that is "like that," but the real number of excess deaths is also a small percentage, when expressed as a percentage.
More significant might be the decline in the native and the First World birthrate, leading to most of our population increase coming from immigration over the affected generations, and suffice it to say that the immigrant populations we have been attracting over that period are not the finest examples of humanity to ever set foot on our shores. This is especially so when we are talking about illegal immigration and that population consists mostly of people who have already been in trouble in their native countries. When you have these little dictators emptying out their prisons and mental institutions at our expense, I see no way that does not lead to a decrease in the physical and mental health of our population. Our own native population that is in those categories has poor health and abbreviated lives.
link to original post
Was that written in NYC in 1852, targeting the Irish, or in 1870, targeting the Italians? In San Francisco in the 1890s against the Chinese or in florida in the 1960s about the Cubans and Puerto Ricans?
When in American History did America attract the best and brightest from other societys? People on the top of the social chain don't tend to leave; it is the poor and unwashed who leave their homes in search of a better life. Georgia was founded by a dictator emptying his prisons and sending them there.
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Counterpoint: how was the lifespan of all those immigrant groups relative to the native population?
The toughest people to ever come to America crossed the Bering Strait about 15K years ago, and it's been all downhill since then.
Now that's a good observation about people at the top of society tending to stay where they are, but you get to be at the top of society because of your social attributes- ultimately who your parents are- rather than your own merits and capabilities. When a person has merit that does not match their social status, it is then that they tend to leave and go someplace where their low social status is not recognized and thus does not impede them, and the USA has always been a favorite destination of such people because of our lack of a hereditary aristocratic class and our open-minded and often idiosyncratic ideas of greatness. To what other country could Andre the Giant have gone and become a rich and famous entertainer? Andrew Carnegie came from a humble family of Scottish laborers.
The most significant change from the period of 19th and early 20th century immigration is the welfare state. There was none back then, and when we enacted the New Deal all the way up until the 1960s there was very little immigration. Now, as soon as people enter they head right to a big city and sign up for the dole, and it does not take much analysis to conclude that the welfare state is why they came here, not just serendipity that it was here when they came. Our ancestors recognized that you can have open borders, or you can have a welfare state, but you cannot have both at the same time. You end up with a surfeit of low-skilled people, and that includes the personal skills, the good habits that lead to a long and productive life, and the recognition of and revulsion towards the bad habits that immiserate and ultimately shorten one's life.
The fact that we are getting smarter about how to create better and better mass extinction could end us. It's a sort of Krell-type ending from Forbidden Planet.
What's his face was wrong about eugenic purity. Stupid people are necessary for survival. A group of people in the wrong place for nonsense reasons might end up being the only survivors because surprising non-forecastable calamities do happen.
That's the essence of evolution in my view.
(there is a theory of why the universe is seemingly barren -- every civilization not destroyed by some mass event still destroys itself if it lasts long enough. I don't know if I believe in that, but it's about as good a theory as any other)
Quote: gordonm888In the 1930s America did attract some of the brightest and best people in the world due to the rise of the German Third Reich.
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We attracted quite a few brilliant people starting around May 7, 1945 in Germany.
Quote: rxwine
(there is a theory of why the universe is seemingly barren -- every civilization not destroyed by some mass event still destroys itself if it lasts long enough. I don't know if I believe in that, but it's about as good a theory as any other)
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Like everything else in nature, it destroys itself until it learns how not to destroy itself. Many small pockets of civilization around the world have learned how not to destroy themselves and they are the future. United States is constantly trying to destroy itself from the inside out it hasn't succeeded yet, there's still time although it's getting harder and harder.
Quote: DRichQuote: gordonm888In the 1930s America did attract some of the brightest and best people in the world due to the rise of the German Third Reich.
link to original post
We attracted quite a few brilliant people starting around May 7, 1945 in Germany.
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Some of them came willingly, some of them came because they were coerced into it, some of them were paid off. Some of them came so they wouldn't have to go to jail for what they did during the war.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: rxwine
(there is a theory of why the universe is seemingly barren -- every civilization not destroyed by some mass event still destroys itself if it lasts long enough. I don't know if I believe in that, but it's about as good a theory as any other)
link to original post
Like everything else in nature, it destroys itself until it learns how not to destroy itself. Many small pockets of civilization around the world have learned how not to destroy themselves and they are the future. United States is constantly trying to destroy itself from the inside out it hasn't succeeded yet, there's still time although it's getting harder and harder.
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Millable wibbles make gibbable hibbles.
Quote: tandworth
Millable wibbles make gibbable hibbles.
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If we ban somebody it means we don't want to hear from them any longer.
Quote: MescalinQuote: DieterQuote: tandworth
Millable wibbles make gibbable hibbles.
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If we ban somebody it means we don't want to hear from them any longer.
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Oh and I have this hankering to charm tinpot moderators impotently abusing their petty moderation powers. I shall cry myself to sleep.
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You would succeed in returning if you were to give up every element of your old self and be "born again" as someone completely different. Redemption, as it were.
Think of it as like the discipline needed to go from being a gambler to an AP. The old gambler practices and habits must be left behind. Do you have such discipline?
Quote: MescalinQuote: DieterQuote: tandworth
Millable wibbles make gibbable hibbles.
link to original post
If we ban somebody it means we don't want to hear from them any longer.
link to original post
Oh and I have this hankering to charm tinpot moderators impotently abusing their petty moderation powers. I shall cry myself to sleep.
link to original post
Crying won't change things.
This thread has caused me to look but I cannot find a simple list.
Quote: rxwinethere is a theory of why the universe is seemingly barren
I don't know why anyone would believe that since there is so very, very much that we don't know
from google:
AI Overview
"160 billion planets in the Milky Way?!
The universe likely contains a staggering number of planets, potentially far exceeding the number of stars. Estimates suggest there are at least hundreds of billions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars, and on average, each star has multiple planets orbiting it. While the exact number is unknown and likely unknowable, current estimates place the number of planets in the observable universe in the TRILLIONS and potentially even beyond.
The universe presents many fundamental mysteries, such as dark matter and dark energy, which make up most of the universe but are not fully understood. Other key mysteries include the origin of the universe and what happened before the Big Bang, the existence of extraterrestrial life, the nature of black holes, and the precise fate of the universe.
While a cornerstone of modern physics, some phenomena within quantum mechanics, such as quantum entanglement, continue to baffle scientists.
Matter-Antimatter Asymmetry:
.
The universe is dominated by matter, but the initial conditions of the Big Bang should have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter. Why matter prevailed is a significant unanswered question.
The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet.
Scientists are investigating unusual phenomena like potential new space objects that don't fit known categories and the mysterious nature of JUMBOs (Jovian-Mass Planetary Objects), which are massive, rogue planets.
Galactic Eruptions:
The Fermi Bubbles, massive structures of plasma erupting from the Milky Way's core, and their implications are still being explored.
.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: rxwinethere is a theory of why the universe is seemingly barren
I don't know why anyone would believe that since there is so very, very much that we don't know
from google:
AI Overview
"160 billion planets in the Milky Way?!
The universe likely contains a staggering number of planets, potentially far exceeding the number of stars. Estimates suggest there are at least hundreds of billions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars, and on average, each star has multiple planets orbiting it. While the exact number is unknown and likely unknowable, current estimates place the number of planets in the observable universe in the TRILLIONS and potentially even beyond.
.
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One can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
Quote: GenoDRPhOne can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
there's also no reliable or valid evidence that there is no life anywhere else in the universe
my personal belief - with Trillions or even Quadrillions of planets out there it seems likely that some have conditions similar to ours that are likely to enable the creation of life
although it might be life much lesser than human life - such as insects - or possibly a much greater form of life
from google:
AI Overview
"The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet."
.
Quote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
Then you still have 3 months! Hurry, hurry, get as many as you can while you can!
Once we can really go underground though…who knows.
Venus is hotter than Mercury. Know why?
Quote: rxwineI fear Mars is already contaminated. Multiple space probes have landed or crashed there from different countries. Though fossils might exist which haven’t been found. Of course, a few fossils would probably be suspect. A fossil field would be ideal.
Once we can really go underground though…who knows.
link to original post
from google:
AI Overview
"there are multiple rovers on Mars right now, including NASA's Curiosity and Perseverance rovers, which are exploring the surface and collecting samples for potential future return to Earth. China also has the Zhurong rover on Mars.
Here are the currently active rovers:
NASA's Curiosity Rover:
.
This rover has been active since 2012, exploring the Martian surface and studying its geological history, including evidence of ancient water.
NASA's Perseverance Rover:
.
Launched in 2021, Perseverance is looking for signs of ancient microbial life and collecting samples for a potential future mission to return them to Earth.
China's Zhurong Rover:
.
The Zhurong rover, which was part of China's Tianwen-1 mission, is also exploring the Martian surface.
Elon Musk is planning to send humans to Mars through his company SpaceX, with recent announcements in May 2025 outlining plans for robotic Starship missions in 2026 and human missions following later, potentially around 2029. His long-term vision is to establish a permanent human settlement on the red planet, with the development of Starship, a powerful rocket designed for this purpose, being central to this plan. "
.
Quote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
I remember Carl Sagan going through this in one of the Cosmos episodes and thinking, there's no way the probability of [something] is so [likely], but I forget what. Maybe it was n sub e, where he put 1 in 10. I would put it more like 1 in 10^9, but that's just a feeling. He ended up with something like 1 in 100,000 stars would have life like us, or assuming a trillion trillion stars (10^24), there are 10^18 examples of life like us out there.
Anyway, here are my estimates and probability:
R*: 1 per 10^6 years
Fp: 0.99 (say 1)
ne: 10^-9
fl: 10^-9
fi: 10^-15
Fc: 0.99 (say 1)
L: 10^6 years
So I get 1 in 10^(-6+0-9-9-15+0+6) = 1 in 10^-33. With 10^24 as the number of stars in the universe**, that makes 1 universe in 10^9 multiverses that produces life like us.
I don't think I'm 100% correct but I don't think Sagan was, either.
What does everyone else think?
**Of course it's not THE number of stars, but just an order-of-magnitude guess.
What does everyone else think?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
The NIH says it's focused on whole-virus vaccines. What are they?
Favoring an older, traditional type of vaccine over newer technologies may be misguided, vaccine experts say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/flu-covid-whole-virus-vaccines-rkf-jr-nih-mrna-rcna226149
The NIH is throwing out science and going back 50 years or more right now and will be unable to respond to fast moving events. They are also shutting down anything having to do with reporting COVID and Bird Flu. Hospitals start overflowing with COVID? Shut down the hospitals!
*******************************************
Found on threads (from a Toronto-an living in Los Angeles):
Can Americans get the COVID vaccine in Canada…. Here’s what I found and this COULD change and probably should to benefit Canada in some way:
Ontario: Free for all, no health card needed.
B.C.: Not available to non-residents.
Quebec: maybe, depends.
Alberta: not available to non residents.
Prairies & Atlantic: mixed, some allow visitors, some don’t.
I’d imagine these will be revised should a vaccine ban go into place. Americans wanting to get vaccinated are generally good tourism for Canada 🇨🇦
(ICE will be at the border.)
Quote: ChumpChangeQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
The NIH says it's focused on whole-virus vaccines. What are they?
Favoring an older, traditional type of vaccine over newer technologies may be misguided, vaccine experts say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/flu-covid-whole-virus-vaccines-rkf-jr-nih-mrna-rcna226149
The NIH is throwing out science and going back 50 years or more right now and will be unable to respond to fast moving events. They are also shutting down anything having to do with reporting COVID and Bird Flu. Hospitals start overflowing with COVID? Shut down the hospitals!
*******************************************
Found on threads (from a Toronto-an living in Los Angeles):
Can Americans get the COVID vaccine in Canada…. Here’s what I found and this COULD change and probably should to benefit Canada in some way:
Ontario: Free for all, no health card needed.
B.C.: Not available to non-residents.
Quebec: maybe, depends.
Alberta: not available to non residents.
Prairies & Atlantic: mixed, some allow visitors, some don’t.
I’d imagine these will be revised should a vaccine ban go into place. Americans wanting to get vaccinated are generally good tourism for Canada 🇨🇦
(ICE will be at the border.)
link to original post
WARNING: This conversation about vaccines is becoming a political discussion. I am asking you to stay away from advocating for or against vaccines or for or against a vaccine ban.
Quote: gordonm888Quote: ChumpChangeQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
The NIH says it's focused on whole-virus vaccines. What are they?
Favoring an older, traditional type of vaccine over newer technologies may be misguided, vaccine experts say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/flu-covid-whole-virus-vaccines-rkf-jr-nih-mrna-rcna226149
The NIH is throwing out science and going back 50 years or more right now and will be unable to respond to fast moving events. They are also shutting down anything having to do with reporting COVID and Bird Flu. Hospitals start overflowing with COVID? Shut down the hospitals!
*******************************************
Found on threads (from a Toronto-an living in Los Angeles):
Can Americans get the COVID vaccine in Canada…. Here’s what I found and this COULD change and probably should to benefit Canada in some way:
Ontario: Free for all, no health card needed.
B.C.: Not available to non-residents.
Quebec: maybe, depends.
Alberta: not available to non residents.
Prairies & Atlantic: mixed, some allow visitors, some don’t.
I’d imagine these will be revised should a vaccine ban go into place. Americans wanting to get vaccinated are generally good tourism for Canada 🇨🇦
(ICE will be at the border.)
link to original post
WARNING: This conversation about vaccines is becoming a political discussion. I am asking you to stay away from advocating for or against vaccines or for or against a vaccine ban.
link to original post
It was political at his first post on the matter.
Several countries suspending shipments to U.S. due to lack of tariff clarity - CBS News
Quote: ChumpChangeAmazon is going to look dark for a lot of products imminently. It will be illegal to get products from many countries after this week.
Several countries suspending shipments to U.S. due to lack of tariff clarity - CBS News
link to original post
This is 100% off topic. If you want to be suspended so bad why not just ask?
People griping that Nebraska will be bankrupt in 6 months.
ON FB: Nebraska’s governor announced that in 6 months, their state is going to be bankrupt because their illegal labor left to avoid deportation. Nebraska’s economy is primarily farm driven. With no one to work the fields, a lot of these farms are about to be broke and lose their land.
I don't know when the starvation starts nationwide, but it won't be long.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: GenoDRPhOne can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
there's also no reliable or valid evidence that there is no life anywhere else in the universe
my personal belief - with Trillions or even Quadrillions of planets out there it seems likely that some have conditions similar to ours that are likely to enable the creation of life
although it might be life much lesser than human life - such as insects - or possibly a much greater form of life
from google:
AI Overview
"The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet."
.
link to original post
Everywhere we've looked, we have not found reliable or valid evidence that there is life anywhere else in the universe. I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence there is no life anywhere else in the universe. Do let us know when that changes.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
News of the Dept of HHS imminently removing multiple vaccines from the US market has been widely reported in recent days in multiple outlets. References available upon request.
$6.4 TRILLION DEBT WALL Hits as Treasury Scrambles for Buyers
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: lilredroosterQuote: GenoDRPhOne can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
there's also no reliable or valid evidence that there is no life anywhere else in the universe
my personal belief - with Trillions or even Quadrillions of planets out there it seems likely that some have conditions similar to ours that are likely to enable the creation of life
although it might be life much lesser than human life - such as insects - or possibly a much greater form of life
from google:
AI Overview
"The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet."
.
link to original post
Everywhere we've looked, we have not found reliable or valid evidence that there is life anywhere else in the universe. I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence there is no life anywhere else in the universe. Do let us know when that changes.
link to original post
No, that logic fails a bit. Ben Franklin didn't know about dinosaurs, Marco Polo didn't know about American Indians, Pasteur didn't know about viruses, Einstein didn't know about quarks. The greatest men and minds are still prisoners of their times.
We haven't been looking nearly long enough and in enough places to come to a conclusion like that with any reliability. We're not even sure what we would be looking for.
If we do discover ET life I predict it will be an accident, made by a scientist who is totally crazy, sloppy in his methodology, oblivious to the standards of his profession, but his craziness and sloppiness allows him to look in unexpected places and stumble into unexpected things, and he'll probably publish his findings as a prank to thumb his nose at his peers.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: lilredroosterQuote: GenoDRPhOne can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
there's also no reliable or valid evidence that there is no life anywhere else in the universe
my personal belief - with Trillions or even Quadrillions of planets out there it seems likely that some have conditions similar to ours that are likely to enable the creation of life
although it might be life much lesser than human life - such as insects - or possibly a much greater form of life
from google:
AI Overview
"The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet."
.
link to original post
Everywhere we've looked, we have not found reliable or valid evidence that there is life anywhere else in the universe. I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence there is no life anywhere else in the universe. Do let us know when that changes.
link to original post
No, that logic fails a bit. Ben Franklin didn't know about dinosaurs, Marco Polo didn't know about American Indians, Pasteur didn't know about viruses, Einstein didn't know about quarks. The greatest men and minds are still prisoners of their times.
We haven't been looking nearly long enough and in enough places to come to a conclusion like that with any reliability. We're not even sure what we would be looking for.
If we do discover ET life I predict it will be an accident, made by a scientist who is totally crazy, sloppy in his methodology, oblivious to the standards of his profession, but his craziness and sloppiness allows him to look in unexpected places and stumble into unexpected things, and he'll probably publish his findings as a prank to thumb his nose at his peers.
link to original post
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Do let us know when we have extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim of life on other worlds.
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: lilredroosterQuote: GenoDRPhOne can believe anything one wishes, but currently there is no reliable or valid evidence of life anywhere in the universe other than here on the Big Blue Marble.
there's also no reliable or valid evidence that there is no life anywhere else in the universe
my personal belief - with Trillions or even Quadrillions of planets out there it seems likely that some have conditions similar to ours that are likely to enable the creation of life
although it might be life much lesser than human life - such as insects - or possibly a much greater form of life
from google:
AI Overview
"The question of whether we are alone in the universe is a perennial mystery, with no definitive answer yet."
.
link to original post
Everywhere we've looked, we have not found reliable or valid evidence that there is life anywhere else in the universe. I'd say that's pretty compelling evidence there is no life anywhere else in the universe. Do let us know when that changes.
link to original post
We have maybe, MAYBE!, been able to examine 0.0000001% of the universe to a point where we can say there is life of no life. Sort of like if aliens landed in a remote part of Antarctica, waked 20 feet, and said, "This planet is uninhabitable, let's go home!" The mere size of the universe indicates that there should be some kind of life somewhere out there.
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
News of the Dept of HHS imminently removing multiple vaccines from the US market has been widely reported in recent days in multiple outlets. References available upon request.
link to original post
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
Quote: AZDuffman
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I guess that could be another possibility for societal collapse or extinction- an unintentional iatrogenic genocide.
I'm not looking for any trouble so I'm not going to express it in terms of any current real-world concerns, but suppose there was some universally applied medical intervention, that was believed to be harmless, but there is no substitute for time and in time it proved to be deadly and sterilizing to all those who took it.
This thought came to me when I read that there was a negative correlation between having had chickenpox and developing brain cancer. Given a choice between those two things, I think I'll take my chances with chickenpox! But now they vaccinate for chickenpox. Given that correlation, are you sure you want to do that?
The microbes that are endemic to a species evolved with that species, and there's generally some kind of symbiotic relationship. Like our gut bacteria. We can't live without those for very long. And who knows what those little bugs in our eyelashes do, maybe they keep us from going blind or something? Trying to hack nature (especially evolution) is risky business. We should do this slowly and thoughtfully.
Quote: AutomaticMonkey
I'm not looking for any trouble so I'm not going to express it in terms of any current real-world concerns, but suppose there was some universally applied medical intervention, that was believed to be harmless, but there is no substitute for time and in time it proved to be deadly and sterilizing to all those who took it.
We might sort of be on the way there. Low testosterone in men is a worldwide problem and it is growing. Don't think that this does not contribute to the lowering TFR.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: AZDuffman
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I guess that could be another possibility for societal collapse or extinction- an unintentional iatrogenic genocide.
I'm not looking for any trouble so I'm not going to express it in terms of any current real-world concerns, but suppose there was some universally applied medical intervention, that was believed to be harmless, but there is no substitute for time and in time it proved to be deadly and sterilizing to all those who took it.
This thought came to me when I read that there was a negative correlation between having had chickenpox and developing brain cancer. Given a choice between those two things, I think I'll take my chances with chickenpox! But now they vaccinate for chickenpox. Given that correlation, are you sure you want to do that?
The microbes that are endemic to a species evolved with that species, and there's generally some kind of symbiotic relationship. Like our gut bacteria. We can't live without those for very long. And who knows what those little bugs in our eyelashes do, maybe they keep us from going blind or something? Trying to hack nature (especially evolution) is risky business. We should do this slowly and thoughtfully.
link to original post
The water we drink, the air we breathe, and the food we eat all have calculations of allowed harmful, or potentially harmful products. So many parts per million, and such calculations. Bacteria and viruses are at us all the time. But if something enters the body other than those pathways, seems to be more concerning, yet much of it does enter, and much of it artificially constructed by man.
We are consuming plastic, mercury, other leaked chemicals, etc. Our food is regularly contaminated no matter the monitoring. We consume actual poisons, just often not it quantities that cause harm, Humans consume cyanide on a daily basis.
All that you can do is calculate risk/reward.
(source: CDC)
2022 1 in 31
2012 1 in 69
2002 1 in 150
1987 1 in 3,000
1970 1 in 13,000
ASD is reported to occur in all racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic groups.
ASD is over 3 times more common among boys than among girls.
About 1 in 6 (17%) children aged 3–17 years were diagnosed with a developmental disability, as reported by parents, during a study period of 2009–2017. These included ASD, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), blindness, and cerebral palsy, among others.
It reminds me of the old punch-line: in ten years we'll all be Elvis impersonators.
Quote: ChumpChangeThe stupid on TV predates Green Acres.
link to original post
Quote:The Pathological Decline of Modernity: A Hootervillian Analysis of Societal Collapse
Abstract:
This article posits a framework for understanding societal decline through the lens of the American sitcom Green Acres (1965–1971). It argues that the central narrative, which pits the rational urbanite, Oliver Wendell Douglas, against the impenetrable, illogical, and hyper-local society of Hooterville, is not merely a comedic premise but a profound allegory for the dissolution of a unified, rational social order. The breakdown of shared meaning, the triumph of solipsistic eccentricity, and the ineffectiveness of technocratic expertise foreshadow a post-rational epoch.
1. The Death of the Social Contract in Hooterville
The traditional social contract, which depends on a shared understanding of reality, is utterly defunct in Hooterville. Oliver Douglas, a Harvard-educated lawyer, operates under the assumption that rules, logic, and codified law are universal principles. This is a fatal miscalculation. The citizens of Hooterville—from the duplicitous salesman Mr. Haney to the perpetually befuddled county agent Hank Kimball—do not subscribe to this worldview. Their actions are governed by an internal, unassailable logic that privileges personal whimsy over objective truth. For instance, the infamous "hotscakes" prepared by Lisa Douglas are never hot, yet the Hootervillians accept them without question, demonstrating a collective rejection of empirical evidence in favor of comfortable mythologies. This represents a societal break where expertise is rendered useless and a consensus reality is no longer possible.
2. The Rise of Ontological Anarchy
The most insidious aspect of Hooterville is not its backwardness but its fundamental ontological fluidity. The very nature of reality is not static. Objects and animals possess a consciousness and agency that defies scientific classification. The most prominent example is Arnold the pig, who attends school, watches television, and is understood by the populace as a human child. Oliver’s attempts to impose a Linnaean taxonomy on this chaos are met with blank stares, as the town has collectively agreed on a different set of rules. This triumph of subjective, communal belief over objective, external reality is the hallmark of a society that has lost its foundation. The citizens, in their solipsistic bubble, have effectively voted reality out of existence. The logical conclusion is a world where all meaning is self-generated and thus, ultimately, meaningless.
3. The Collapse of Urban Sophistication
Oliver Douglas embodies the hubris of the modern, cosmopolitan elite. He believes his urban sophistication and legal training are transferable skills that will allow him to "tame" the countryside. His three-piece suit, a symbol of urban rationalism, becomes a uniform of futile Sisyphean effort, caked in mud and ignored by his neighbors. The joke, of course, is that his knowledge is not only useless but a hindrance. His legal acumen cannot persuade a pig or negotiate a fair price with Mr. Haney. This serves as a cautionary tale: the specialized knowledge systems of advanced society are not universal and crumble when confronted with a pre-rational or post-rational culture. When the foundational assumptions of a society are gone, its most complex products—like a legal system or financial markets—become nothing more than quaint, incomprehensible relics.
4. The Peril of Nostalgia and the End of Progress
Oliver’s move to the country is driven by a romantic, Jeffersonian ideal of the yeoman farmer. He desires to reconnect with an agrarian past, but his version of this past is a sanitized, nostalgic fiction. Hooterville is not the virtuous republic of his dreams; it is a chaotic, irrational space that exposes the fatal flaw in his romanticism. The series implicitly argues that a return to a simpler time is a destructive fantasy. When a society begins to look backward for its solutions rather than forward, it signals a fundamental loss of confidence in its own future. The downfall of the Douglas's agricultural enterprise is a metaphor for the broader societal project—its failure is a testament to the unviability of regress in the face of persistent, structural absurdity.
Conclusion:
Far from being a quaint rural comedy, Green Acres serves as a chilling diagnosis of civilizational decay. It presents a world where logic is a handicap, expertise is a folly, and the very fabric of reality is subject to a collective, capricious whim. Oliver Wendell Douglas’s maddening, repeated failures are not merely comedic beats; they are the desperate cries of reason in a world that has ceased to listen. The path from Manhattan to Hooterville is, therefore, not a journey toward bucolic simplicity, but a metaphorical road to the end of a cohesive, rational society.
Footnotes
Schwartz, R. The Great Unraveling: Post-Narrative Structures in Mid-Century Sitcoms. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1982.
Behrens, A. The Unbearable Weight of Reason: A Case Study of Post-Enlightenment Thought in American Television. Journal of Media Studies, vol. 43, no. 2 (2093), pp. 112–129.
Perkins, M. “From Aristotle to Arnold: The De-humanization of the Rational Animal.” The Philosophical Review of Fictional Narratives, vol. 18, no. 3 (2088), pp. 45–62.
Douglas, O. Correspondence with a Farmer Who Never Existed. Unpublished manuscript, 1971.
Haney, E. “On the Ontology of the Gilded Age and the Pragmatics of the Barn Sale.” Hooterville Historical Quarterly, vol. 9, no. 1 (1969), pp. 31–45.
The Hooterville County Department of Records. Minutes of the Annual Town Meeting. Microfiche collection, Vol. 1–6 (1965–1971).
Kaufman, L. The Post-Structuralist Turn in American TV Comedy. Thesis, The New School for Social Research, 2099.
This is all fake. I just generated it from Ai Google. It did take about 5 seconds though.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
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How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
News of the Dept of HHS imminently removing multiple vaccines from the US market has been widely reported in recent days in multiple outlets. References available upon request.
link to original post
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I choose not to respond to the scientific ignorance that is your post, for fear for delving into politics and personal insults. However, a perusal of the press and media outlets will yield the information that readily refutes aforementioned ignorance.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: AZDuffman
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I guess that could be another possibility for societal collapse or extinction- an unintentional iatrogenic genocide.
I'm not looking for any trouble so I'm not going to express it in terms of any current real-world concerns, but suppose there was some universally applied medical intervention, that was believed to be harmless, but there is no substitute for time and in time it proved to be deadly and sterilizing to all those who took it.
This thought came to me when I read that there was a negative correlation between having had chickenpox and developing brain cancer. Given a choice between those two things, I think I'll take my chances with chickenpox! But now they vaccinate for chickenpox. Given that correlation, are you sure you want to do that?
The microbes that are endemic to a species evolved with that species, and there's generally some kind of symbiotic relationship. Like our gut bacteria. We can't live without those for very long. And who knows what those little bugs in our eyelashes do, maybe they keep us from going blind or something? Trying to hack nature (especially evolution) is risky business. We should do this slowly and thoughtfully.
link to original post
If such a medical intervention had the sort of adverse effect you mentioned, medical scientists and public health experts would be all over it.
As for chickenpox versus vaccination, what is the comparison of the incidence of brain cancer in the vaccinated versus unvaccinated compared the risk of death in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated?
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: AZDuffman
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I guess that could be another possibility for societal collapse or extinction- an unintentional iatrogenic genocide.
I'm not looking for any trouble so I'm not going to express it in terms of any current real-world concerns, but suppose there was some universally applied medical intervention, that was believed to be harmless, but there is no substitute for time and in time it proved to be deadly and sterilizing to all those who took it.
This thought came to me when I read that there was a negative correlation between having had chickenpox and developing brain cancer. Given a choice between those two things, I think I'll take my chances with chickenpox! But now they vaccinate for chickenpox. Given that correlation, are you sure you want to do that?
The microbes that are endemic to a species evolved with that species, and there's generally some kind of symbiotic relationship. Like our gut bacteria. We can't live without those for very long. And who knows what those little bugs in our eyelashes do, maybe they keep us from going blind or something? Trying to hack nature (especially evolution) is risky business. We should do this slowly and thoughtfully.
link to original post
If such a medical intervention had the sort of adverse effect you mentioned, medical scientists and public health experts would be all over it.
As for chickenpox versus vaccination, what is the comparison of the incidence of brain cancer in the vaccinated versus unvaccinated compared the risk of death in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated?
link to original post
Chickenpox was always just a thing you got. Discomfort for about a week then over it. In my day parents had "chickenpox parties" if a kid was known to have it so the others would get it. Because it was better to get it young than as an adult where there could be complications. Risk of death? Pretty close to zero.
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: ChumpChangeLooks like vaccines won't exist in this country from 2026 on. We win the Darwin Award.
link to original post
How do you figure? Are they being banned or something? I thought I would have heard something on the news that big.
link to original post
News of the Dept of HHS imminently removing multiple vaccines from the US market has been widely reported in recent days in multiple outlets. References available upon request.
link to original post
Haven't seen anything on it. "Multiple vaccines" could mean anything. My thought is this happens regular but this is the time you choose to notice and think the world is ending because of it? When you see news like this one should ask themselves, "compared to what?" How many vaccines are being removed vs. how many are there in total? Are they for things we do not need to vax for, like old flu strains or smallpox?
Sounds like business as usual to me.
link to original post
I choose not to respond to the scientific ignorance that is your post, for fear for delving into politics and personal insults. However, a perusal of the press and media outlets will yield the information that readily refutes aforementioned ignorance.
link to original post
So, you choose to avoid a post that makes personal insults with a post that makes personal insults?
Quote: ChumpChangeThe topic is societal collapse and this country leads the pack next to Russia and China and a few other notables.
People griping that Nebraska will be bankrupt in 6 months.
ON FB: Nebraska’s governor announced that in 6 months, their state is going to be bankrupt because their illegal labor left to avoid deportation. Nebraska’s economy is primarily farm driven. With no one to work the fields, a lot of these farms are about to be broke and lose their land.
I don't know when the starvation starts nationwide, but it won't be long.
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Where (besides Facebook) is this comment regarding NE's bankruptcy? I would be very interested to read why he thinks so and I couldn't find anything in a quick search.
But I don't think any of this will happen at all, nothing close to it. Can we tag this post and check back in in 6 months to compare this prediction with the actual?
