Societal Collapse/ Extinction
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| | 8 votes (36.36%) | ||
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| | 3 votes (13.63%) | ||
| | 5 votes (22.72%) | ||
| | 4 votes (18.18%) | ||
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22 members have voted
Quote: billryanDeliver pizza two nights a week.
If your boss isn't paying you for the work you do, is that on him or you?
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If he isn't complying with wage and payroll laws, that's 100% totally on him.
If he's 100% complying with wage and payroll laws and I still need or want more income, then I have some choices to make.
Quote: ChumpChange#FightFor40 ($40 minimum wage for the 1 bedroom $2,000 apartment that requires 3X the rent in income just to qualify to apply, or a $72,000 minimum annual income.) Good luck Door Dashers!
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People must order a lot of food from restaurants deliver to their house to keep doordash in business. I never in my entire life ever ordered cooked food, not even a pizza, delivered to me. It would never even occur to me not to make it from scratch. And they wonder why obesity is a chronic disease in this country.
One video said to just call the restaurant and have them deliver. I'm not sure the fast food places deliver yet.
Apparently some dashers are on bikes.
I Tried DoorDash on the Lacros Thunder Electric Bike (Things didn't go as planned!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRE8a3xFCUI
$2,000 marked down to $1,400 for the bike.
Quote: ChumpChangeMy new phone plan has another week or two where I can sign up for a free $99/year Door Dash Pass so I could get free delivery for a year. But then I read that restaurants increase online prices 11% for regular Door Dash orders and 14% for Door Dash Pass holders.
That is a problem with most of the delivery service that most people don't even notice. Most of them have marked up the price in their apps from what it costs from the restaurant. They are getting you on both ends.
Chile is projected to keep collapsing. One wonders if people will migrate there instead of the USA?
Quote: AZDuffmanI just saw that Chile is at the bottom of Western Hemisphere TFR at about 1.13 kids per woman. Same story as South Korea, Japan, and elsewhere. Collapse in interest in getting married in the first place. It is very interesting that this is happening all over the world in all kinds of societies. Something common has to be driving it.
Chile is projected to keep collapsing. One wonders if people will migrate there instead of the USA?
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I know exactly what's driving it, modern technology. People making more money all over the world. I read decades ago that one of the very first things people do when their income goes up is they stop having so many children. Because they don't need them, they aren't useful for anything except to bleed you dry monetarily. People used to have lots of children so that they could all contribute to the family fortune and maybe one or two of them would take care of you when you were old. All that has changed in most places that aren't third world crap holes. In Niger it's 6.1 kids per woman. I rest my case.
Quote: AZDuffmanI just saw that Chile is at the bottom of Western Hemisphere TFR at about 1.13 kids per woman. Same story as South Korea, Japan, and elsewhere. Collapse in interest in getting married in the first place. It is very interesting that this is happening all over the world in all kinds of societies. Something common has to be driving it.
Chile is projected to keep collapsing. One wonders if people will migrate there instead of the USA?
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I'll stick with my theory of pornography being used as a substitute for dating by so many young people. Supporting that is that it's happening in the more developed places first, where everyone is getting good internet access. Chile is a very developed place for the most part.
A while back, most men liked porn to some degree but we used it when the real thing wasn't available. Once I was old enough to walk into a bar and pick up a chick, sitting there with a strong mag in my hand became much less appealing. But that's fine, for the very young or the very old who are not supposed to be in the reproduction pool anyway.
Now, it's guys in their 20s and 30s who would rather sit and watch a screen and pollute themselves than go out and meet a nice girl, and that's weird. What's worse is the girls are acting the same way. You would never hear a chick talk about how she likes porn and masturbation, now that is considered mainstream and is discussed openly. No wonder they are not having children! They are loading up on the junk food of pornography and lose their appetite for the real thing.
Then the character of the porn has changed so much. Most of it has nothing to do with sexual intercourse, just a lot of 6ULE DV8 acts that I can't imagine anyone would want to do or admit they have done. I've known rough guys who would tell whorehouse stories that would turn your ears blue, but they didn't talk about those acts, most of which we once also considered crimes. That's how most of the young people in the developed world are being introduced to sex now. They are not reproductive acts and they are not even things that have traditionally been considered part of sex. Maybe just part of psychopathy.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanI just saw that Chile is at the bottom of Western Hemisphere TFR at about 1.13 kids per woman. Same story as South Korea, Japan, and elsewhere. Collapse in interest in getting married in the first place. It is very interesting that this is happening all over the world in all kinds of societies. Something common has to be driving it.
Chile is projected to keep collapsing. One wonders if people will migrate there instead of the USA?
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I know exactly what's driving it, modern technology. People making more money all over the world. I read decades ago that one of the very first things people do when their income goes up is they stop having so many children. Because they don't need them, they aren't useful for anything except to bleed you dry monetarily. People used to have lots of children so that they could all contribute to the family fortune and maybe one or two of them would take care of you when you were old. All that has changed in most places that aren't third world crap holes. In Niger it's 6.1 kids per woman. I rest my case.
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That doesn't explain the lack of marriage and even dating, though. Marriage in the USA is down because of many reasons but a big one is how ant-male the family court system is. But are Chile and South Korea the same? And that is really only one reason. Other things have to be coming into play. Low T levels in men are cited often. But why is that happening all over?
This is thread-crossing but lots of it seems to be men checking out. USA college enrollment is 1.2 million since 2010 per what I heard recently. Of that, 1 million or 5/6 are men! Men are really tuning out and dropping out. As the post above says, you can get all the porn you want in an instant now, less need to bother with the real thing. One can ask, is the same thing causing Chile's problems?
In the USA I do not expect decline to be a political issue until the 2032 or 2036 cycle. Vance has just mentioned it on the fringes for now, which is how this kind of thing starts. Historically is is like Eisenhower starting to try civil rights legislation in the mid 50s but the momentum was just not there yet. 10 years later it was. TFR is will follow the same path. The UN will eventually start putting it more front and center by the late 2030s.
Quote: odiousgambitBy now all the babies were supposed to come from test tubes. When is AI going to figure out how to accomplish this? Humans are too squeamish I think
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Ai, is still a baby.
Quote:What would be the funtional extiniction point for humans to be worried about?
AI Overview
A key point of worry for humans is functional extinction, which occurs when a species' population becomes so low that it can no longer sustain itself or play a significant role in the ecosystem, even if a few individuals still exist. This is distinct from numerical extinction, which refers to the complete disappearance of a species.
For humans, estimates for a Minimum Viable Population (MVP) range widely, according to ResearchGate. Some studies suggest 150 to 40,000 individuals for a naturally breeding population. However, with advanced technologies like genetic counseling or IVF, this number could be drastically reduced, potentially even to a single female with access to frozen embryos or sperm. There's also the possibility of recovery through advanced methods like synthesizing humans from fossilized DNA, says ResearchGate.
Personally, I look forward to have a thousand acres or so with fewer people around. But I'm not going to mow all that.
Quote: rxwineMy Ai question for the day.
Quote:What would be the funtional extiniction point for humans to be worried about?
AI Overview
A key point of worry for humans is functional extinction, which occurs when a species' population becomes so low that it can no longer sustain itself or play a significant role in the ecosystem, even if a few individuals still exist. This is distinct from numerical extinction, which refers to the complete disappearance of a species.
For humans, estimates for a Minimum Viable Population (MVP) range widely, according to ResearchGate. Some studies suggest 150 to 40,000 individuals for a naturally breeding population. However, with advanced technologies like genetic counseling or IVF, this number could be drastically reduced, potentially even to a single female with access to frozen embryos or sperm. There's also the possibility of recovery through advanced methods like synthesizing humans from fossilized DNA, says ResearchGate.
Personally, I look forward to have a thousand acres or so with fewer people around. But I'm not going to mow all that.
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AI sounds like a politician running for office.
(millions of humans, that is)
Quote: odiousgambitBy now all the babies were supposed to come from test tubes. When is AI going to figure out how to accomplish this? Humans are too squeamish I think
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I remember the first test-tube baby and the moral discussions about it. One sitcom said "one day a baby will be a kit you buy at Radio Shack."
They still have to be raised. That is the thing. Do we go "Brave New World" where a class of women are there to raise all the kids? Of course not as things are not going to go that way except perhaps in fascist or communist states like North Korea in which the people are already just so robotic.
I know that your post is half-joking, but taking a break from my stock program programming. Made a stupid mistake set me back a day. Grrrrr.
Quote: AZDuffmanAs the post above says, you can get all the porn you want in an instant now, less need to bother with the real thing. One can ask, is the same thing causing Chile's problems?
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Porn definitely plays into it. Men have a totally different feeling about sex than women do, we can enjoy it almost as much by watching it as by actually doing it. Actually doing it is obviously better but it's a lot more work, and it's often hard to access even if you're married. Porn is instantaneous, it's always there whenever you want it. And it suits every mood you're in. On top of that women in the US from what I've seen on YouTube for the last couple years are almost unapproachable if you're single. If you're not driving a $100,000 car and are the least bit overweight or bald or a poor dresser or just an average dude women are going to shun you. My understanding is a huge number of single men in their 20s and 30s have just given up and are leading a single life because they're sick of it. That thing that came out a while back were a survey found that women would rather be in the woods alone with a bear then in the woods with a single man because they trust the bear more has really had a detrimental effect on men. They're saying screw it, if that's what you want hope you and the bear are happy. Because I'm having a good time with my new truck, hanging out with my buddies, making good money at my job, with no woman to hassle me 16 hours a day.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffmanAs the post above says, you can get all the porn you want in an instant now, less need to bother with the real thing. One can ask, is the same thing causing Chile's problems?
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Porn definitely plays into it. Men have a totally different feeling about sex than women do, we can enjoy it almost as much by watching it as by actually doing it. Actually doing it is obviously better but it's a lot more work, and it's often hard to access even if you're married. Porn is instantaneous, it's always there whenever you want it. And it suits every mood you're in. On top of that women in the US from what I've seen on YouTube for the last couple years are almost unapproachable if you're single. If you're not driving a $100,000 car and are the least bit overweight or bald or a poor dresser or just an average dude women are going to shun you. My understanding is a huge number of single men in their 20s and 30s have just given up and are leading a single life because they're sick of it. That thing that came out a while back were a survey found that women would rather be in the woods alone with a bear then in the woods with a single man because they trust the bear more has really had a detrimental effect on men. They're saying screw it, if that's what you want hope you and the bear are happy. Because I'm having a good time with my new truck, hanging out with my buddies, making good money at my job, with no woman to hassle me 16 hours a day.
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I haven't bothered even trying to date for like 15 years. I went MGTOW years before I heard the term. Something like 60% of men in their 20s and 30s are not in a relationship and mostly not trying. It is also South Korea, Japan, and other places. Which is why I keep saying there is something happening.
At the same time women are so picky they are lower and lower value. Single moms, student debt, overweight, other issues. How many guys are going to marry a single mom with student loans?
As to porn, the number of women trying to become porn stars amazes me. Watch "Hot Girls Wanted" if you want to be depressed for the evening.
Quote: EvenBobhat thing that came out a while back were a survey found that women would rather be in the woods alone with a bear then in the woods with a single man because they trust the bear more has really had a detrimental effect on men. /link]
That's not the version I heard, It was would a woman rather meet an unknown man in the woods or a bear?
Has nothing to do with the state of a known relationship. That's just the reality of women and security in general.
Though no doubt relationships have plenty of potential problems all their own.
Quote: billryanI do a good bit of trail riding, and fairly often, I'd be more comfortable seeing a bear than some of the people I've encountered. It's disconcerting when you are deep in a National forest and have a chance encounter with a predator.
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I know I'm supposed to sit in the corner and be ornamental, but that's some fine wordplay.
Quote: billryanI do a good bit of trail riding, and fairly often, I'd be more comfortable seeing a bear than some of the people I've encountered. It's disconcerting when you are deep in a National forest and have a chance encounter with a predator.
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I go bare out in the desert all the time. Never saw a bear though. Only predator was me.
I did have an encounter with a burro, though. I looked up and there was a burro standing there looking at me. He said "Oh, pardon me for disturbing you. I was just grazing but I'll be moving right along now. Have a nice afternoon."
He must have been Russian. For he was a... a...
Urban legend. Maybe, maybe not. I ain't tellin'
I had an idenitical encounter!!! but he turned out to be ............Quote: AutomaticMonkeyQuote: billryanI do a good bit of trail riding, and fairly often, I'd be more comfortable seeing a bear than some of the people I've encountered. It's disconcerting when you are deep in a National forest and have a chance encounter with a predator.
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I go bare out in the desert all the time. Never saw a bear though. Only predator was me.
I did have an encounter with a burro, though. I looked up and there was a burro standing there looking at me. He said "Oh, pardon me for disturbing you. I was just grazing but I'll be moving right along now. Have a nice afternoon."
He must have been Russian. For he was a... a...polite-burro.
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In the last 30 days there have been 396 Earthquakes stronger than 5.0mg.
Credit: @BGatesIsaPyscho
Quote: gordonm888How will society collapse? What extinction events seem like a clear and imminent danger?
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Side story.
I attend a weekly gathering of a Spanish club. One game we play has someone reading a question and we go around the table answering it, in Spanish. Here are example questions the teacher prepared on index cards:
"What do you prefer -- cats or dogs?"
"What do you prefer -- the beach or mountains?"
"What do you prefer -- traveling by train or airplane?"
The last meeting we had a twist where we could make up our own questions. I asked Gordon's question. Everyone else at the table, who were mostly female, were aghast at how dark and depressing my question was.
Quote: WizardQuote: gordonm888How will society collapse? What extinction events seem like a clear and imminent danger?
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Side story.
I attend a weekly gathering of a Spanish club. One game we play has someone reading a question and we go around the table answering it, in Spanish. Here are example questions the teacher prepared on index cards:
"What do you prefer -- cats or dogs?"
"What do you prefer -- the beach or mountains?"
"What do you prefer -- traveling by train or airplane?"
The last meeting we had a twist where we could make up our own questions. I asked Gordon's question. Everyone else at the table, who were mostly female, were aghast at how dark and depressing my question was.
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Mostly female? Now we know why you go to Spanish club.
Quote: WizardQuote: gordonm888How will society collapse? What extinction events seem like a clear and imminent danger?
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Side story.
I attend a weekly gathering of a Spanish club. One game we play has someone reading a question and we go around the table answering it, in Spanish. Here are example questions the teacher prepared on index cards:
"What do you prefer -- cats or dogs?"
"What do you prefer -- the beach or mountains?"
"What do you prefer -- traveling by train or airplane?"
The last meeting we had a twist where we could make up our own questions. I asked Gordon's question. Everyone else at the table, who were mostly female, were aghast at how dark and depressing my question was.
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I confess to a scientific and intellectual interest in these kind of meta issues that may not be shared by everyone.
One of my favorite books: A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson, awakened my interest in tectonics and super-volcanos, asteroids, species extinction, etc.
"the fact is that there is one other extremely pertinent quality about life on Earth: it goes extinct. Quite regularly. For all the trouble they take to assemble and preserve themselves, species crumple and die remarkably routinely. And the more complex they get the more quickly they appear to go extinct. Which is perhaps one reason why so much of life isn't terribly ambitious."
Quote: gordonm888Quote: WizardQuote: gordonm888How will society collapse? What extinction events seem like a clear and imminent danger?
link to original post
Side story.
I attend a weekly gathering of a Spanish club. One game we play has someone reading a question and we go around the table answering it, in Spanish. Here are example questions the teacher prepared on index cards:
"What do you prefer -- cats or dogs?"
"What do you prefer -- the beach or mountains?"
"What do you prefer -- traveling by train or airplane?"
The last meeting we had a twist where we could make up our own questions. I asked Gordon's question. Everyone else at the table, who were mostly female, were aghast at how dark and depressing my question was.
link to original post
I confess to a scientific and intellectual interest in these kind of meta issues that may not be shared by everyone.
One of my favorite books: A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson, awakened my interest in tectonics and super-volcanos, asteroids, species extinction, etc.
"the fact is that there is one other extremely pertinent quality about life on Earth: it goes extinct. Quite regularly. For all the trouble they take to assemble and preserve themselves, species crumple and die remarkably routinely. And the more complex they get the more quickly they appear to go extinct. Which is perhaps one reason why so much of life isn't terribly ambitious."
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Bill Bryson is my absolute favorite modern writer. I have not read all his books but most of them. Right now I'm rereading a walk in the woods because I'm obsessed with the Appalachian Trail. It saddens me he retired a couple years ago. He's my age and his book about growing up in Des Moines Iowa is absolutely spot on about that time.
From what I understand about Japan, that may not be an altogether bad thing though.
Quote: gordonm888Japan's population is expected to go down by a net of one million people this year due to low birth rates.
From what I understand about Japan, that may not be an altogether bad thing though.
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Made me curious.
Quote:Based on various sources, Manila, Philippines holds the title of the city with the highest population density, reaching 119,600 people per square mile. This makes it the most populated square mile on Earth.
Quote: rxwineQuote: gordonm888Japan's population is expected to go down by a net of one million people this year due to low birth rates.
From what I understand about Japan, that may not be an altogether bad thing though.
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Made me curious.Quote:Based on various sources, Manila, Philippines holds the title of the city with the highest population density, reaching 119,600 people per square mile. This makes it the most populated square mile on Earth.
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The Philippines is a great place if you like sweating to death. Every month one of my credit cards when I pay it connects me to somebody in the Philippines and every month I ask the person how they like living there. Every single one of them for the last 3 years has said they hate the humidity and the heat. And they were born there. They say you never get used to it you just learn to tolerate it. The reason Florida was never over exploited by Europe was the heat and humidity. They couldn't take it so they mostly ignored it. And the Philippines is far worse than Florida.
Quote: EvenBob
The Philippines is a great place if you like sweating to death. Every month one of my credit cards when I pay it connects me to somebody in the Philippines and every month I ask the person how they like living there. Every single one of them for the last 3 years has said they hate the humidity and the heat. And they were born there. They say you never get used to it you just learn to tolerate it. The reason Florida was never over exploited by Europe was the heat and humidity. They couldn't take it so they mostly ignored it. And the Philippines is far worse than Florida.
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If its so unpleasant to live in Manila, why do they have the highest population density in the world?
Quote: gordonm888Quote: EvenBob
The Philippines is a great place if you like sweating to death. Every month one of my credit cards when I pay it connects me to somebody in the Philippines and every month I ask the person how they like living there. Every single one of them for the last 3 years has said they hate the humidity and the heat. And they were born there. They say you never get used to it you just learn to tolerate it. The reason Florida was never over exploited by Europe was the heat and humidity. They couldn't take it so they mostly ignored it. And the Philippines is far worse than Florida.
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Asia is like that. They really ctowd into the big cities. No work elsewhere.
If its so unpleasant to live in Manila, why do they have the highest population density in the world?
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Quote: gordonm888Japan's population is expected to go down by a net of one million people this year due to low birth rates.
From what I understand about Japan, that may not be an altogether bad thing though.
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You are thinking in terms of crowded subways and such. But what is happening is small towns there are just dui g away. Some are putting up
Mannequins to make it look less empty. File that under Japan can be weird. But seriously small towns dying off changes many things.
Quote:Based on available information, there are estimated to be over 4,530 ghost towns in the United States as of 2024.
This number represents towns that have been abandoned or significantly depopulated for various reasons since America's founding. Ghost towns are a historical phenomenon influenced by factors like resource depletion (gold, coal, etc.), economic shifts, transportation route changes (e.g., bypassed by railroads), and natural or human-made disasters. The term can even encompass areas that are still populated but have experienced significant decline.
Btw , the question was asked since the founding of US. Some towns may be just the dust and a record somewhere that it once existed.
The ruins of many still exist, as do many old stagecoach depots.
This easily means that in the last decades of the 2000s they will be losing over 1MM per month. It is about 8MM per year flatline. Even if you assume most of that is seniors past working age, say 10% are of working age. 100,000 per month working age people net loss.
In the USA that would be all the workers at Ford or Microsoft GONE every 2 months. Or losing two Harrisburg, PAs every month. (Well, we could lose our one and it might be good lol )
But think of this. Just the number of apartments emptying is staggering.
Quote: billryanI've visited a few dozen ghost towns in Arizona/New Mexico/Colorado, and they range from places that only exist on maps to truly deserted places to towns whose population declined, but still have people. I recently visited a city in Northern Arizona that had 3,000 people in the 1970s, but the mine shut down and now there are just over a hundred residents. Many of these ghost towns were once crossroads that died when better roads bypassed them or the mine/mill shut down. Some towns are remembered with a roadside monument, some are completely abandoned. The Mormons built many way stations across the West for their pilgrims traveling to Utah.
The ruins of many still exist, as do many old stagecoach depots.
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I wanted to do that when I was in AZ but never had the time or money. I should google earth some of them.
Lots of towns in the USA are "walking dead" towns that would be ghost towns if not for people getting SS, disability, etc. Others are just so dead you wonder how people manage. I saw many in NY. Some in the Adirondacks would make a good bug-out for a break from life. But not to hide out as they would wonder why you are there and know you were running and hiding from things.
One of the tallest volcanos in the world (I think -its over 6,000 meters) this is following that very active month of earthquakes on the Pacific Rim.
Quote: AZDuffmanJust saw that China might lose 500-700 million people by 2100.
If they lose close to 700 million people it will be deserted. Most calculated estimates have their population currently between 500 and 800 million people. The published stats still say about 1.4 billion but nobody believes that. In China the government subsidies for areas are based on population so they are all inflated to get more government money.
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanJust saw that China might lose 500-700 million people by 2100.
If they lose close to 700 million people it will be deserted. Most calculated estimates have their population currently between 500 and 800 million people. The published stats still say about 1.4 billion but nobody believes that. In China the government subsidies for areas are based on population so they are all inflated to get more government money.
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That 500-700 is based on the 1.4. They might not have 1.4 but I don’t believe as low as 800MM either. You can be sure the CIA keeps some kind of tabs. Though they might not give heir figures.
No matter gay though Chinas best days are behind her. She will collapse into competing kingdoms yet again.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: DRichQuote: AZDuffmanJust saw that China might lose 500-700 million people by 2100.
If they lose close to 700 million people it will be deserted. Most calculated estimates have their population currently between 500 and 800 million people. The published stats still say about 1.4 billion but nobody believes that. In China the government subsidies for areas are based on population so they are all inflated to get more government money.
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That 500-700 is based on the 1.4. They might not have 1.4 but I don’t believe as low as 800MM either. You can be sure the CIA keeps some kind of tabs. Though they might not give heir figures.
No matter gay though Chinas best days are behind her. She will collapse into competing kingdoms yet again.
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I would guess the current population is much closer to 800 than 1.4
But it wasn't all garbage. I think it had some influence on modern economic theory which, as far as social sciences go, has been pretty reliable ... allocation of limited resources, supply/demand, etc.
Someone told me that, to estimate the number of people who have ever lived, just take the current population and double it. So, 8 billion (or if China is lying, 7 billion) becomes 16 (14) billion that ever lived. Does that sound about right?
Quote: ChumpChangeHurricane Erin forecast for a week from now.
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As long as it stays away from me. My roof can't take another direct hit.
I believe this is the June 2, 2025 eruption of Mt Etna in Sicily, Italy. Always entertaining to see tourists running.
Quote: gordonm888
I believe this is the June 2, 2025 eruption of Mt Etna in Sicily, Italy. Always entertaining to see tourists running.
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I need to run, but I want to film, but I NEED TO RUN, but I WANT TO FILM…!
