When My Marker Went To The DA

This happened about five years ago. This story isn't worthy of a screenplay or a book or even a short story for Readers Digest.

About five years ago I had a period of illness linked to my kidney/pancreas transplant and I was hospitalized and then homebound.

I had a marker outstanding at Caesars Palace with a 30-day payoff.

At the time I was living in LA and usually would return the following weekend with a cashier's check which would pay the marker and clear my account for immediate use.

This time illness broke the routine.

I notified my Host and the cage and there was no problem. A delay of a couple of weeks for a good customer was okay.

I got better. I called my Host and said, I'm driving up with the cash (cashier's check). Should I go to the cage or pay someone else since I'm late?

My host called the cage and the cage said it was with the "collections department" and my host gave me their phone number that the cage provided to her.

My host said she didnt know there was a collections department.

I called the number. It was the DA's office for bad check collections.

Luckily for me they just got the case that morning so NO WARRANT was issued. I was told to simply bring my cashier's check to them PLUS A FEE (I think it was 6%, I dont really remember after 5 years) and there would be no record of it.

I went to my bank. It was embarrassing to get a cashier's check made out to the DA's office of bad checks but that's what I did. I drove like a bat outta hell for the DA's office for bad checks which looked like a bank with tellers.

I handed them my check.

On the way out some undercover looking police types looked at me (stopping their conversation) as if to say "we never saw this guy before." (LOL)

Got in my car, paid the parking fee, got driving and called my host.

"I found the collections department," I said. "It's the DA's office."

My host was in shock. She called the head host and he was in shock.

Somehow, by accident, that morning someone sent my file to the DA's office. Everyone apologized.

But I still got stuck with the fee.

Edited to add: when I went to the casino and the cage I was nervous someone would say something to me. But no one did say anything. It was like it never happened.

You got lucky. Your casino chose to use the DA. Others would have used Chili Palmer.

I thought an outstanding marker would just automatically deduct from your bank account? MGM told me they take it out after 10 days unless you physically pay it off before that.

Quote: TigerWu

I thought an outstanding marker would just automatically deduct from your bank account? MGM told me they take it out after 10 days unless you physically pay it off before that.
link to original post

That's how it was when I used markers, but the check has to clear. I had a check from The Edgewater returned because I'd switched checking accounts and never updated the information. The casino called me and was very polite about it but did let me know that if the check wasn't made whole, they would be forwarding a criminal complaint. It was squared away almost instantly, but I admired the way the casino rep could threaten criminal prosecution while carrying on an extremely polite conversation. They must have a lot of practice.

Quote: TigerWu

I thought an outstanding marker would just automatically deduct from your bank account? MGM told me they take it out after 10 days unless you physically pay it off before that.
link to original post

Markers vary. Some casinos give you ten days, some 30 days. High rollers might have 90 days or no cap at all.

Every once in a while you read about some celebrity who has several million in outstanding markers over a period of a year or more.

The usual procedure is that the marker -- which is drawn up as a draft on your bank account -- is deposited if you dont pay it off by the due date.

Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them. I dont know the reason for this but several casino companies have told me it's their procedure.

By the way at the DA's office the teller told me that they get players "all the time" coming in to pay late markers. Apparently it's common, and the DA's office is happy to collect its fee and then turns the money over to the casinos. I got the impression that actual prosecutions are very rare. In chatting with the teller I was told they even had a payment plan available.

By the way, when I got a ticket in Vegas for keeping my California car registration too long (yes the cops saw my car too often on the same stretch of Charleston Blvd) I was offered a three month payment plan on the $180 fine.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them. I dont know the reason for this but several casino companies have told me it's their procedure.

That's not what they told me at Aria, where I recently opened my first marker line of credit. Just a few weeks ago when I used it for the first time, I asked them if I should wire them funds if I could not pay it back at the end of my trip...they said don't bother and they will deduct the funds from my bank account on the tenth day. Makes sense to me...the whole point of the marker is convenience so why overcomplicate it

Driving up to vegas with a cashiers check sounds like something you might do 100 years ago

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them. I dont know the reason for this but several casino companies have told me it's their procedure.

That's not what they told me at Aria, where I recently opened my first marker line of credit. Just a few weeks ago when I used it for the first time, I asked them if I should wire them funds if I could not pay it back at the end of my trip...they said don't bother and they will deduct the funds from my bank account on the tenth day. Makes sense to me...the whole point of the marker is convenience so why overcomplicate it

Driving up to vegas with a cashiers check sounds like something you might do 100 years ago
link to original post

Sounds like they gave you a tough deal. You mentioned you used it for the first time. Perhaps after a longer experience your conditions will change.

I think Stations Casinos offers 15 days. I never opened a credit line with them.

My question is this: should they not be required to first run the marker through the gambler's bank before coming after him?

The theory Nevada uses is that failure to pay is fraud, akin to writing an NSF check; so in theory they'd need to run the marker through the bank and have it rejected, right?

I suppose if they try that and there are insufficient funds available to pay the marker then yes, it would go to the DA.

I just don't get the claim that "Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them'

Seems to me that depositing the drafte first would be a necessary condition precedent to submitting to the DA for prosecution.

Quote: MrV

My question is this: should they not be required to first run the marker through the gambler's bank before coming after him?

The theory Nevada uses is that failure to pay is fraud, akin to writing an NSF check; so in theory they'd need to run the marker through the bank and have it rejected, right?

I suppose if they try that and there are insufficient funds available to pay the marker then yes, it would go to the DA.

I just don't get the claim that "Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them'

Seems to me that depositing the drafte first would be a necessary condition precedent to submitting to the DA for prosecution.
link to original post

Remember... it was a mistake that my marker went to the DA. They were holding it because I was ill.

And why would casinos rather that you pay? To get you back to the casino and to have good relations. And to avoid wives and bookkeepers and business partners seeing debits from a casino on a bank statement.

Geez. Isnt it obvious? LOL

I can tell you the story of a craps player who bankrupted his chain of dry cleaning stores taking markers.

Alan, my query was not directed at you specifically, it was more an open-ended question as to the legal ability of a casino to by-pass the submission of a marker to the gambler's bank before turning it into the DA.

But for clarity let me please ask: in your case did they first submit it to your bank or forego that and then submit it to the DA after thirty days (without trying to run it through your bank)?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Sounds like they gave you a tough deal. You mentioned you used it for the first time. Perhaps after a longer experience your conditions will change.

I think Stations Casinos offers 15 days. I never opened a credit line with them.

Why is it a tough deal and why would someone need more than 10 days? I'd be fine with 4 days since I've never stayed in Vegas more than 3 days

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: MrV

My question is this: should they not be required to first run the marker through the gambler's bank before coming after him?

The theory Nevada uses is that failure to pay is fraud, akin to writing an NSF check; so in theory they'd need to run the marker through the bank and have it rejected, right?

I suppose if they try that and there are insufficient funds available to pay the marker then yes, it would go to the DA.

I just don't get the claim that "Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them'

Seems to me that depositing the drafte first would be a necessary condition precedent to submitting to the DA for prosecution.
link to original post

Remember... it was a mistake that my marker went to the DA. They were holding it because I was ill.

And why would casinos rather that you pay? To get you back to the casino and to have good relations. And to avoid wives and bookkeepers and business partners seeing debits from a casino on a bank statement.

Geez. Isnt it obvious? LOL

I can tell you the story of a craps player who bankrupted his chain of dry cleaning stores taking markers.
link to original post

If you're a criminal and/or trying to hide something then I guess it's obvious. But not it you're a responsible, creditworthy person with nothing to hide

Quote: MrV

Alan, my query was not directed at you specifically, it was more an open-ended question as to the legal ability of a casino to by-pass the submission of a marker to the gambler's bank before turning it into the DA.

But for clarity let me please ask: in your case did they first submit it to your bank or forego that and then submit it to the DA after thirty days (without trying to run it through your bank)?
link to original post

The marker did not go to my bank. It was being held. It was a mistake that it went to the DA.

I suspect casinos would submit a marker to the bank before going to the DA. But I know casinos would rather keep a customer than alienate a customer.

I dont sue every client who doesnt pay me on time. It's business. And in this regard the advertising business is no different than the casino business.

A casino's credit customers are probably very good customers to keep around. Why kill a relationship when you can work with them during a rough spot?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Markers vary. Some casinos give you ten days, some 30 days. High rollers might have 90 days or no cap at all.

This is hard to believe unless you're a true whale that has losses partially forgiven etc.

But lets say you're not a whale and take a marker for $100k. In normal times the cost of capital is at least 5% since you could get that just sitting in a money market account so the the casino is losing about $1700 over 90 days. Why would they do that?

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: MrV

My question is this: should they not be required to first run the marker through the gambler's bank before coming after him?

The theory Nevada uses is that failure to pay is fraud, akin to writing an NSF check; so in theory they'd need to run the marker through the bank and have it rejected, right?

I suppose if they try that and there are insufficient funds available to pay the marker then yes, it would go to the DA.

I just don't get the claim that "Casinos dont like to deposit the drafts (markers) and prefer you pay them rather than they deposit them'

Seems to me that depositing the drafte first would be a necessary condition precedent to submitting to the DA for prosecution.
link to original post

Remember... it was a mistake that my marker went to the DA. They were holding it because I was ill.

And why would casinos rather that you pay? To get you back to the casino and to have good relations. And to avoid wives and bookkeepers and business partners seeing debits from a casino on a bank statement.

Geez. Isnt it obvious? LOL

I can tell you the story of a craps player who bankrupted his chain of dry cleaning stores taking markers.
link to original post

If you're a criminal and/or trying to hide something then I guess it's obvious. But not it you're a responsible, creditworthy person with nothing to hide
link to original post

You understand why casinos dont allow photographs? To protect the identity of players.

You understand that casinos will agree to block your name appearing on hotel guest registers? To protect the identity of players.

There are casino players with private bank accounts and there are players who use joint accounts with wives and business partners. Don't be naive.

In my second divorce her lawyer spent $25,000 doing discoveries searching casinos for secret accounts in my name. I told the judge if she found one account I would pay the $25,000 charge. They found no secret accounts and her lawyer ate that $25,000 discovery cost.

They subpoenaed every casino in Nevada.

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Markers vary. Some casinos give you ten days, some 30 days. High rollers might have 90 days or no cap at all.

This is hard to believe unless you're a true whale that has losses partially forgiven etc.

But lets say you're not a whale and take a marker for $100k. In normal times the cost of capital is at least 5% since you could get that just sitting in a money market account so the the casino is losing about $1700 over 90 days. Why would they do that?
link to original post

I'm no whale but they gave me a great wedding.

Quote: AlanMendelson

You understand why casinos dont allow photographs? To protect the identity of players.

You understand that casinos will agree to block your name appearing on hotel guest registers? To protect the identity of players.

There are casino players with private bank accounts and there are players who use joint accounts with wives and business partners. Don't be naive.

In my second divorce her lawyer spent $25,000 doing discoveries searching casinos for secret accounts in my name. I told the judge if she found one account I would pay the $25,000 charge. They found no secret accounts and her lawyer ate that $25,000 discovery cost.

They subpoenaed every casino in Nevada.
link to original post

You make it sound like entering a casino is illegal or immoral!

Are we back in Prohibition now? No, we are going the other way and legalizing all forms of gambling throughout the country, like almost every other developed nation always has been

Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm no whale but they gave me a great wedding.
link to original post

What it the 1st marriage, 2nd, 3rd...?

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

You understand why casinos dont allow photographs? To protect the identity of players.

You understand that casinos will agree to block your name appearing on hotel guest registers? To protect the identity of players.

There are casino players with private bank accounts and there are players who use joint accounts with wives and business partners. Don't be naive.

In my second divorce her lawyer spent $25,000 doing discoveries searching casinos for secret accounts in my name. I told the judge if she found one account I would pay the $25,000 charge. They found no secret accounts and her lawyer ate that $25,000 discovery cost.

They subpoenaed every casino in Nevada.
link to original post

You make it sound like entering a casino is illegal!
link to original post

It had nothing to do with legality. It's about protecting the confidentiality of players.

For example: In a divorce the other side is always looking for money. Her lawyer subpoenaed the casinos looking for it. She couldn't get my apartment building in NYC because that was from before the marriage.

But I started my Internet company during that marriage. Her lawyer didnt want any part of it. This was in 2000 before the Internet took off.

In 2006 my partners and I sold it... for a lot.

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm no whale but they gave me a great wedding.
link to original post

What it the 1st marriage, 2nd, 3rd...?
link to original post

That was marriage #3.

Marriage #4 was at The Little White Chapel.

Now please forgive me as I get a little more personal and emotional. I've been on this forum a lot in the past few days because I'm with ex wife #4 at a hospital where she's getting treatment for leukemia. I spend a lot of time watching her sleep. Unfortunately it's not going well. She has had brain bleeds. Yesterday they told me to go home. I'm in my hotel room. I have a flight tomorrow. There's nothing left to do. Janet and I were married about 5 years ago when she had lung cancer. MrV probably can find that photo. The leukemia developed a year ago, January. I've been acting as her care giver.
It got to the point that I was spoon feeding her applesauce.

That is truly horrible news, Alan: what a rough thing to have to go through.

It is interesting and to your credit that you are quite literally at her bedside during her time of woe; good for you not to become her enemy post-divorce.

I get along well with my first wife: makes life so much less complicated.

We became very close in the last year or so. I broke up with another girl to go back to Janet.

Yes, we had a horrible breakup after our short marriage but she was ill then too. I excused and forgave what she did to me.

It's been so hard the past year watching what happened to a once beautiful Arizona beauty queen.

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Markers vary. Some casinos give you ten days, some 30 days. High rollers might have 90 days or no cap at all.

This is hard to believe unless you're a true whale that has losses partially forgiven etc.

But lets say you're not a whale and take a marker for $100k. In normal times the cost of capital is at least 5% since you could get that just sitting in a money market account so the the casino is losing about $1700 over 90 days. Why would they do that?
link to original post

You're not getting anything remotely close to 5% in a money market account nowadays. And the casino is not really "losing" that interest... Worst case scenario is the player at least breaks even and they're only losing out on whatever the difference is between $100k now and $100k 90 days from now when factoring in the time value of money. Statistically it's more likely that $100k player will have lost a portion of that money to the casino anyway, in which case the casino probably comes out ahead way more than what any theoretical interest rate would provide.

And in answer to your question of why they would give someone an interest-free loan for $100,000 for 90 days, it's because it's just another comp... same reason they give out free hotel rooms and alcohol and show tickets etc., etc., etc. for active players.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Markers vary. Some casinos give you ten days, some 30 days. High rollers might have 90 days or no cap at all.

This is hard to believe unless you're a true whale that has losses partially forgiven etc.

But lets say you're not a whale and take a marker for $100k. In normal times the cost of capital is at least 5% since you could get that just sitting in a money market account so the the casino is losing about $1700 over 90 days. Why would they do that?
link to original post

You're not getting anything remotely close to 5% in a money market account nowadays. And the casino is not really "losing" that interest... Worst case scenario is the player at least breaks even and they're only losing out on whatever the difference is between $100k now and $100k 90 days from now when factoring in the time value of money. Statistically it's more likely that $100k player will have lost a portion of that money to the casino anyway, in which case the casino probably comes out ahead way more than what any theoretical interest rate would provide.

And in answer to your question of why they would give someone an interest-free loan for $100,000 for 90 days, it's because it's just another comp... same reason they give out free hotel rooms and alcohol and show tickets etc., etc., etc. for active players.
link to original post

Well said, TigerWu

Very sorry, Alan.

Quote: AlanMendelson

MrV probably can find that photo.

I can and I did, here ya go:



Alan, I just gotta say this: we've jousted for years on these forums but I still believe this is one of the coolest things I've seen in a casino; bravo.

Quote: TigerWu

You're not getting anything remotely close to 5% in a money market account nowadays. And the casino is not really "losing" that interest...

Which is why I said normally. These are not normal times, though it seems they might normalizing soon

Wrong wife. But this was my wedding at Caesars.

I think there's a wedding picture of me and Janet on that "other forum." But I dont go there anymore.

Thanks for trying MrV.

LOL

OOPS

Quote: MrV

LOL

OOPS
link to original post

I'm still friendly with Shelley. She's in health care and has been caring about Janet too.

I feel so empty now.

We don't ask to be born, we've no choice in the matter: poof, we exist.

As time passes we experience, learn, live, suffer, baffled by the wonder of it all.

Death is the leveler, all fall to the scythe; the trick I think is to love and be loved, so that when the final moment comes you can feel complete.