Photography advice requested

In the trivia warm-up thread, I was able to guess the Fontainbleau skeleton as the next tallest structure in Las Vegas after the Stratosphere. I confessed that I checked a photo that I took in 2008 and picked out the tallest structure I could find. That prompts me to ask for some advice as to the best location to take a photo that I want.

I have lots of my own photography on the walls of my condo, including skyline photos of Seattle and Toronto with their major towers. I would like to add a photo of the Las Vegas skyline (primarily the strip) including the Stratosphere. I have not yet found a really good place to stand to take the photo. The one I looked back to for help on the trivia question, I took with a long lens from somewhere out near E. Lake Mead Blvd. and N. Hollywood Blvd (don't know the area well enough to say just where I was). The perspective wasn't too bad, but the distance was so great that there was too much haze between me and the strip. I thought of another site I would like to try to shoot from, but I don't think I can get access to that road to the radio/TV/communications towers on the hill near Henderson, and that may also be too distant from the strip for clear images. Another long-distance view would be from the Skybar at the Eastside Cannery -- never been there, but the promo photos are intriguing.

At the other extreme, getting too close presents a different problem. I don't have a panorama lens, so my position must be able to include the strip buildings and the Stratosphere with a modest wide-angle lens. I have a zoom lens for my D70 that goes as wide as 18mm, which is equivalent to a 27mm lens on a 35mm camera. That means that even though there may be some great views from atop the Eiffel Tower, from there I could not get the kind of image I am looking for. I have never been up to the Voodoo lounge, so I don't know whether the view from there gives the perspective I would like. I will be staying at the Rio week after next, so I may go up to the roof to check it out.

Any better suggestions for a skyline photo op? I don't really want to pay for a helicopter or balloon ride just to take the photo.

Quote: Doc

I will be staying at the Rio week after next, so I may go up to the roof to check it out.

I went up to the Voodoo Lounge last time I was in Vegas, and had the same idea (unfortunately, I forgot my mini-tripod... and my memory card). I think it would be a good place to take photos of the Strip, but there's a few caveats:

1) Rio is only about a mile from the Strip, which is about four miles from Strat to Mandalay. If you want to do this in one shot (you didn't mention this as a specific requirement), this requires a lens that can see about 130°, which I think is about twice what your lens can do. Of course, if you don't mind multiple exposures and stitching, this won't be a problem.

2) The Voodoo Lounge isn't open until 5:00. Sunset is at about 4:20 this time of year. It's going to be dark by the time you get up there, so if you're looking for a daytime shot, no dice until mid-March. The nighttime view is pretty damn cool, though, especially CityCenter (oh, yeah, and Cosmo's going to be open by then, too).

3) You'll mostly be seeing the back side of the west side Strip properties. You can see some of the east side properties, but some of them are completely blocked.

I was looking at ghOstbar (top floor of the Palms), but they don't open until 8:00, and they're only a half-mile further out, so you'd still need a 110° lens for a single shot.

Also, if you're interested in shots of downtown, the top floor of the parking garage at the Premium Outlets looks like a good spot to shoot from (although it's only four stories up).

Quote: wildqat

I went up to the Voodoo Lounge last time I was in Vegas, and had the same idea (unfortunately, I forgot my mini-tripod... and my memory card). I think it would be a good place to take photos of the Strip, but there's a few caveats:

1) Rio is only about a mile from the Strip, which is about four miles from Strat to Mandalay. If you want to do this in one shot (you didn't mention this as a specific requirement), this requires a lens that can see about 130°, which I think is about twice what your lens can do. Of course, if you don't mind multiple exposures and stitching, this won't be a problem.

2) The Voodoo Lounge isn't open until 5:00. Sunset is at about 4:20 this time of year. It's going to be dark by the time you get up there, so if you're looking for a daytime shot, no dice until mid-March. The nighttime view is pretty damn cool, though, especially CityCenter (oh, yeah, and Cosmo's going to be open by then, too).

3) You'll mostly be seeing the back side of the west side Strip properties. You can see some of the east side properties, but some of them are completely blocked.

I was looking at ghOstbar (top floor of the Palms), but they don't open until 8:00, and they're only a half-mile further out, so you'd still need a 110° lens for a single shot.

Also, if you're interested in shots of downtown, the top floor of the parking garage at the Premium Outlets looks like a good spot to shoot from (although it's only four stories up).

I'd rent a good panarama lense.

Quote: Doc

I thought of another site I would like to try to shoot from, but I don't think I can get access to that road to the radio/TV/communications towers on the hill near Henderson, and that may also be too distant from the strip for clear images. Another long-distance view would be from the Skybar at the Eastside Cannery -- never been there, but the promo photos are intriguing.

Horizon Ridge Pkwy runs in front of the radio/TV hill (Black Mountain) in Henderson. A great view is from the corner of Gibson Rd and Horizon Ridge. When I have relatives visiting, I take them to that corner for good views of the strip at night. That area is still relatively undeveloped so you wouldn't have much interference from lights and traffic.

The view from the parking garage at Green Valley Ranch is also good but the light from their sign might make the view difficult to photograph.

May I suggest you go to the Montecito Casino? They can do wonders there with photography of the various buildings on the Las Vegas Strip.

Quote: FleaStiff

May I suggest you go to the Montecito Casino? They can do wonders there with photography of the various buildings on the Las Vegas Strip.

Yeah, I recall that the outside of the Montecito is across the street from the Luxor or Mandalay Bay, though Ed's office window looked out at Harrah's or something. Very clever configuration for good views. I don't think I can find my way around the property well enough to get the really good shots.

Quote: annaj10

Horizon Ridge Pkwy runs in front of the radio/TV hill (Black Mountain) in Henderson. A great view is from the corner of Gibson Rd and Horizon Ridge.

Thanks! I'll try to get out to check that out. I haven't driven around in the area other than within a block or three from the interstate. Google Maps satellite view suggested the road to the highest points (Westview Drive, maybe?) is a bit rough and might require a 4WD. I think it eventually runs to a "no trespassing" zone closer to the towers.

Quote: wildqat

... Rio is only about a mile from the Strip, which is about four miles from Strat to Mandalay. If you want to do this in one shot (you didn't mention this as a specific requirement), this requires a lens that can see about 130°, which I think is about twice what your lens can do. ...

The Voodoo Lounge isn't open until 5:00. Sunset is at about 4:20 this time of year. It's going to be dark by the time you get up there, so if you're looking for a daytime shot, no dice until mid-March. ...

Also, if you're interested in shots of downtown, the top floor of the parking garage at the Premium Outlets looks like a good spot to shoot from (although it's only four stories up).

Thanks. I had not done the calculations, but I was afraid the Rio was too close for my lens. I will take a look anyway, to see whether I can get the Strat and enough of the strip buildings for a suitable skyline. A nighttime shot would be O.K. Is there a viewing area around the Voodoo Lounge that might be open during the day before the lounge is open for business? I think a just-before-sunset shot from the west might be good. As for downtown, I have reasonably good views from the top of the Stratosphere itself, though even at that distance they are pretty much looking down on Fremont Street. I might check out the Outlets garage, but I have a feeling that location might include a bunch of unwanted foreground material. Hard for me to tell without going there for a look.

Quote: EvenBob

I'd rent a good panarama lense.

Good suggestion. But I'm probably too cheap for that -- not sure what the charge would be. Any suggestion of a photo rental place in Las Vegas I could check for such a lens? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to rent and carry one from home for most of a week for really just one shot.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'm still open to others.

This picture from my Treasure Island review was taken from the top of the TI parking garage.

I recall amazing views of the whole Strip while on final approach to McCarran.

Of course, you can't use digital cameras during that time, but if you have an old-fashioned film camera you can snap away then.

There's a pretty good strip view from the east side of the Orleans. I noticed when walking out of the Arena after watching the Wranglers thump the Salmon Kings (sigh).

Quote: Doc

Thanks. I had not done the calculations, but I was afraid the Rio was too close for my lens....

Quote: EvenBob

I'd rent a good panarama lense.

Good suggestion. But I'm probably too cheap for that -- not sure what the charge would be.

Don't know about places or charges in Vegas, but lensrental.com has a Sigma 4.5 mm for about $13 a day, so you can use that as a starting point. A 4.5 should get you to 130°.

Quote: Doc

Is there a viewing area around the Voodoo Lounge that might be open during the day before the lounge is open for business?

There is an outside deck, but you have to go through the lounge to get there, so I don't know if it's open before 5:00. Of course, It Never Hurts to Ask.™

Quote: Doc

I think a just-before-sunset shot from the west might be good.

Same here. It'll be well-lit with the sun right behind you, and you might get some nice coloring and shadowing from the setting sun.

Quote: Doc

As for downtown, I have reasonably good views from the top of the Stratosphere itself, though even at that distance they are pretty much looking down on Fremont Street. I might check out the Outlets garage, but I have a feeling that location might include a bunch of unwanted foreground material. Hard for me to tell without going there for a look.

Well, it's the north garage, right off Bonneville. IIRC, from that location, it's pretty clear to Fremont; lots of low buildings and empty space. It shouldn't be too busy (you're going the weekend before Christmas, right?). You can also get a good picture of the Las Vegas Design Center, if you like funky fresh architecture yo.

Quote: Nareed

Of course, you can't use digital cameras [on final approach to McCarran]...

Civil disobedience is fun:





Taking pictures in low light on a shaking airplane, not so much.

Just sit on it until the FAs strap in, then pull it out and shoot away (turn the flash and sounds off, of course). These were on takeoff from 1-R. Anyway, they'll tell you to stow your old cameras, too, just because it's one less object bouncing around the cabin Just in Case.™

Quote: Wizard

This picture from my Treasure Island review was taken from the top of the TI parking garage.

I like the photo, Wiz, except that my objective for this shot is to include the Stratosphere and the strip skyline, which I don't think I can do from anywhere on the strip. I also have been given a really nice panoramic photo taken from the Eiffel tower, but it doesn't show the Strat -- can't see anything beyond maybe the Wynn.

What kind of lens did you use for that photo?

Quote: Nareed

I recall amazing views of the whole Strip while on final approach to McCarran.

I have been disappointed in my photos from commercial aircraft -- generally a problem with the window I have to shoot through, I think. Also, the plane would need to be almost on the ground for the image to have the skyline effect I want. But thanks!

Quote: thecesspit

There's a pretty good strip view from the east side of the Orleans.

Thanks. I'll check that out, too. Is there a good position in that area with a little elevation so that I don't have a bunch of utility poles, self-storage businesses, and the like in the shot?

Edit: And thanks also to wildqat for your suggestions and images. You posted while I was typing (an all-too-common experience for me.)

Orleans : The arena's smoking gallery is a couple of floors up.

Otherwise a room in the Orleans on the East side (there's one wing that runs North/South that would give you that view on one side). The latter is probably a much harder prospect....

I certainly wasn't looking with a photographer's eye, so it may be lousy for what you want.

Quote: FleaStiff

May I suggest you go to the Montecito Casino? They can do wonders there with photography of the various buildings on the Las Vegas Strip.

How they managed to rebuild that casino in a different location every week is amazing to me. So was how Danny's car could magically teleport from going southbound on LV Blvd to underneath the Fremont St. Experience.

Seriously, have you considered the top floor of the Bank of America building on Rainbow and Westcliff? It's the one you see heading westbound on 95 before the Summerlin Pkwy exit. That's a reasonably tall building, and it appears that looking toward the strip would give you a decent angle to capture what you want to capture.

Quote: MathExtremist

... have you considered the top floor of the Bank of America building on Rainbow and Westcliff? ...

I am not familiar with that part of town, so I didn't even know about that BoA building. I'm guessing access might be a bit of an issue for a general bum member of the public. Whadya think?

Just looking at a map and satellite view, I was thinking that somewhere on W. Sahara or W. Desert Inn, or maybe as far south as Twain, and perhaps between Decatur and Rainbow, would give the right view, provided that I could get sufficient elevation. Any suggestions in that general area? From the Google satellite, I can't even judge where the hills are, and certainly not where tall, public-access structures might be.

Quote: wildqat

Taking pictures in low light on a shaking airplane, not so much.

I could make my old, fully-manual Minolta SLR sing and dance to whatever tune I chose. the new digital cameras, no matter how much I RTFM and beg, they do mostly as some idiot programming design commitee thinks idiots want to shoot their pictures.

I've thought of pulling the SLR out of stasis for the next trip, but the throught of lugging a heavy camera and two rolls of film doesn't exactly fill me with joy. More likely next time I won't take any camera at all.

Quote: Nareed

More likely next time I won't take any camera at all.

I used to take lots of pics, I haven't taken a camera to Vegas in ages. Just buy postcards, its all the same to me.

Say, Doc, have you tried googling for photography clubs or hobbyists in Vegas? Local photo enthusiasts are bound to know of a good location, and might help you get to some hard to access places.

Quote: Nareed

... have you tried googling for photography clubs or hobbyists in Vegas? ...

Now there's a good idea. Nareed, you make me feel as though I have had my brain turned off. I'll see whether I can find something.

Quote: Doc

Now there's a good idea. Nareed, you make me feel as though I have had my brain turned off. I'll see whether I can find something.

And it only took me a whole day to come up with it! ;)

Now that I am back home, I thought I would let you folks know how my photo ventures went in Vegas. In the rush leading up to the trip, I did not follow up on Nareed's suggestion to look for photo club members for advice. I did check out the Orleans, as suggested by thecesspit. I tried their parking deck, but it is not very high, and since it is on the west side of the property, their event center and hotel tower both intrude on the view of the strip. I talked to both a security guy and a lady at the hotel desk in an attempt to gain access to a better spot. There didn't seem to be any opening for me to get onto the roof. The desk clerk offered to get me onto an upper floor, but I would have had to take the shot through a window, and I have never found that to work out all that well. Both the clerk and the security guard suggested I try their "sister" property, the Gold Coast. I asked them whether they realized that a photo of the strip taken from the Gold Coast would be totally dominated by the hulk of the Rio right across the street.

The best photo op I could come up with was the Voodoo lounge/steakhouse atop the Rio. I had considered that originally, and wildqat also suggested it. There is truly a remarkable view from there. It is only available to the public after the steakhouse opens at 5:00, so daytime images are not available at this time of year. I went there early one evening before they had customers and got my shots.

I had several surprises: the MGM Grand and the Luxor are completely hidden from view from atop the Rio. The Stratosphere is almost completely hidden too, with only the spire at the very top visible over the Trump tower. I would never have guessed that they were that directly in line. My original objective was to get a skyline photo that included the Stratosphere, to compare/contrast with my Seattle and Toronto skyline photos with their towers. No such luck from the Rio, but I did get some very usable photos.

As was discussed previously, the Rio is much too close to the strip for my lens to capture the entire scene, and I did not look into the possibility of renting a panorama lens, as suggested by EvenBob. Below is the shot I wound up with, and I think it turned out pretty good. It is a digital paste-up, of course. I now need to try to get it on paper -- I'm thinking of trying to get a print about 7"x56".



If you are interested in seeing this in higher resolution, the full image is available here. It runs somewhere around 9 MB, so don't click the link if you don't mean it. At least with my Firefox browser, the link opens in a new window with the image as wide as the window. If you click on that, it becomes full-size and scrollable in two directions.

Sorry the Orleans didn't work out.

Nice picture!

Doc, nice shot. I enlarged it and looked at the detail; not bad, considering the conditions.

Great shot.

Quote: Doc

Now that I am back home, I thought I would let you folks know how my photo ventures went in Vegas. In the rush leading up to the trip, I did not follow up on Nareed's suggestion to look for photo club members for advice. I did check out the Orleans, as suggested by thecesspit. I tried their parking deck, but it is not very high, and since it is on the west side of the property, their event center and hotel tower both intrude on the view of the strip. I talked to both a security guy and a lady at the hotel desk in an attempt to gain access to a better spot. There didn't seem to be any opening for me to get onto the roof. The desk clerk offered to get me onto an upper floor, but I would have had to take the shot through a window, and I have never found that to work out all that well. Both the clerk and the security guard suggested I try their "sister" property, the Gold Coast. I asked them whether they realized that a photo of the strip taken from the Gold Coast would be totally dominated by the hulk of the Rio right across the street.

The best photo op I could come up with was the Voodoo lounge/steakhouse atop the Rio. I had considered that originally, and wildqat also suggested it. There is truly a remarkable view from there. It is only available to the public after the steakhouse opens at 5:00, so daytime images are not available at this time of year. I went there early one evening before they had customers and got my shots.

I had several surprises: the MGM Grand and the Luxor are completely hidden from view from atop the Rio. The Stratosphere is almost completely hidden too, with only the spire at the very top visible over the Trump tower. I would never have guessed that they were that directly in line. My original objective was to get a skyline photo that included the Stratosphere, to compare/contrast with my Seattle and Toronto skyline photos with their towers. No such luck from the Rio, but I did get some very usable photos.

As was discussed previously, the Rio is much too close to the strip for my lens to capture the entire scene, and I did not look into the possibility of renting a panorama lens, as suggested by EvenBob. Below is the shot I wound up with, and I think it turned out pretty good. It is a digital paste-up, of course. I now need to try to get it on paper -- I'm thinking of trying to get a print about 7"x56".



If you are interested in seeing this in higher resolution, the full image is available here. It runs somewhere around 9 MB, so don't click the link if you don't mean it. At least with my Firefox browser, the link opens in a new window with the image as wide as the window. If you click on that, it becomes full-size and scrollable in two directions.

Wow, that is an amazing picture. I love these kinds of skyline pictures. I was also surprised that the Luxor and MGM Grand are completely hidden, but I think you can see every other major hotel on the strip pretty clearly (I don't consider the Strat to be on the strip).

I barely noticed the lines where the multiple pictures are pasted together - in fact I don't think I would have noticed at all if I hadn't been looking for them, since I new it was a digital paste up.

Were you ever successful in getting this on paper? I would love a print of it.

I wound up getting an 8"x64" print. If I had planned properly, I would have tripled the image and gotten three for the same price as one, since I had to pay for a 24"x64" print that was 2/3 blank. The price of the print itself wasn't too outlandish, but the custom framing stung a bit. I couldn't get non-glare glass 64" long, so I went with acrylic. The framed print looks just fine over the double doorway heading out to my patio.

If you are really interested in a print of your own, you are welcome to download the .jpg you have aleady seen and have a print made for personal use. Please don't go commercial with my image. If you feel some compulsion to pay for the use, we can make it a second beer added to the one you promised in that PM. Since, as I have previously posted, I don't consume alcohol, I am unlikely ever to try to collect. ;-)

Quote:

Thanks for the new computer background works great over a 3 monitor setup.

I'd never thought of that, probably because I have never used a multiple-monitor setup. I have long used my own photos for my single-monitor desktop background. I am currently using an image of Rainbow Bridge at Niagara Falls, taken from the Skylon Tower.

I have a number of my bridge photos that I like, framed and hanging around my condo: O'Callaghan-Tilman Memorial Bridge, New River Gorge Bridge, Bridge of the Americas, Lion's Gate Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge, Tower Bridge, "World's Longest Covered Bridge" in Hartland, New Brunswick, ....

Great picture Doc. With a picture that wide, you need to take multiple images and stitch them together. I think at that focal range, you get a workable amount of distortion. If you had, say, the Nikkor 10.5, the distortion is huge and must be corrected in NX2 or Photoshop to get anything useful. The other Nikon option would be a D700 with a 14-24mm (which has far leas distortion, but runs about $4000).

So, I take it that you used the manual settings to keep the exposure identical from photo to photo.

Again, great and inspiring photo.

I used a Nikon D70 with an AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm Type-G lens. Of course, since the CCD detector is only 23.7x15.6mm, that affects the field of view for this camera, and the "35mm equivalent" focal length of lenses is about 50% higher, i.e., about 27-105mm equivalent field of view for this lens. According to the .jpg image data, I had the lens at 48mm, though I don't remember exactly why -- I assume that gave me a vertical composition that I liked at the time. The exposure was manual at f4.5 for 1/8 sec using whatever my default ISO equivalent setting is on the camera -- 400, I think.

There are ten images used in the paste-up, with eight of them only using the center segment of the image, maybe somewhere between the center 1/3 and 1/2 of each. The extreme left and extreme right sections of the paste-up use a much larger portion of a single original image each. There was no vertical cropping of the images except the little required to trim where I didn't have the top/bottom exactly even on the images. I didn't have a real tripod with me and just used a Gorilla-grip pod wrapped around a handrail, so I didn't keep the camera in perfect alignment along the horizon for all of the shots.

If the images had been shot in daylight, I expect the paste-up seams would be much more evident. I have never owned or learned to use Photoshop, but this paste-up would be a good application if the seams were particularly evident. Mosca did an excellent job of Photoshopping out the rough edges of the paste-up I did for a scene of an Acapulco cliff diver, and that composite is posted in a thread somewhere around this forum.

Quote: Doc

I used a Nikon D70 with an AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm Type-G lens. Of course, since the CCD detector is only 23.7x15.6mm, that affects the field of view for this camera, and the "35mm equivalent" focal length of lenses is about 50% higher, i.e., about 27-105mm equivalent field of view for this lens. According to the .jpg image data, I had the lens at 48mm, though I don't remember exactly why -- I assume that gave me a vertical composition that I liked at the time. The exposure was manual at f4.5 for 1/8 sec using whatever my default ISO equivalent setting is on the camera -- 400, I think.

Oh, f-stops! That takes me back. Most modern, digital one-shot wonders don't have f-stop settings.

And you are quite talented, too. Would you be interested in being the official WoVCon ][ photographer? :)

If you can tolerate my snapshots, I will certainly be willing to take the shots and post them. I will try to do much better than the one I posted of the get-together last year -- I rushed it and didn't have the group posed in a good arrangement. We looked absurd.

Quote: Nareed

Oh, f-stops! That takes me back. Most modern, digital one-shot wonders don't have f-stop settings.

And you are quite talented, too. Would you be interested in being the official WoVCon ][ photographer? :)

Oh, they have f-stops, they're just hidden so deep in the menu that by the time you find them the light is gone.

Also, the optical physics of the tiny sensors means that there isn't a huge difference between settings. The flip side of that is that small one-shot wonders can have incredibly deep focus (if that's what your shot needs).

I'm an equipment junkie, no matter what it is; one of the reasons I held out on photography for so many years was that I knew I'd go nuts on the gear. I love all cameras, from the $100 one-shot wonders to the multi-thousand dollar DSLRs, and the out-of-reach Leicas and medium and large format cameras. Even the cheapest cameras today are amazing for their ingenuity and craft; I can see that engineers sat and thought a long time about bringing the machine to market at a price point, while still maintaining quality.

I have two cameras that I use frequently, two that I use infrequently, and half a dozen that I want but can't justify buying.

Quote: Doc

If you can tolerate my snapshots, I will certainly be willing to take the shots and post them.

I do more than tolerate them. You're on!

Quote:

I will try to do much better than the one I posted of the get-together last year -- I rushed it and didn't have the group posed in a good arrangement. We looked absurd.

You look fine. The shot, though, was badly lit. I won't fault you for that, as lighting is tricky even when you have any control of it. And indoor shots always need more light that is available, don't they? We can take the group shot outside before we go gambling.