Poll

4 votes (44.44%)
2 votes (22.22%)
3 votes (33.33%)

9 members have voted

DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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December 5th, 2020 at 7:36:19 AM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

Thanks for the info! But don't establishments also pay to lease the machines? I had heard that Debbie Reynolds's casino was losing money every day from leasing slots. Or was that situation different because she was likely on the hook for paying out jackpots?



Casinos can pay to lease machines if they can't afford or don't want to buy them.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 5th, 2020 at 7:40:28 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Casinos can pay to lease machines if they can't afford or don't want to buy them.



Aren't some games only available by leasing them?
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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December 5th, 2020 at 7:44:53 AM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

Thanks for the info! But don't establishments also pay to lease the machines? I had heard that Debbie Reynolds's casino was losing money every day from leasing slots. Or was that situation different because she was likely on the hook for paying out jackpots?



If the slot route gets 15% of the weekly win, I would hope that would cover everything (maintenance, leasing, etc.) In Illinois that cost is 35% of the net win but certainly covers all those costs. And the state takes 30%, so the establishment only keeps 35% of the net win. And right now they are earning nothing because casinos and bar gaming are shut off statewide again due to Covid-19.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 7038
December 5th, 2020 at 8:01:25 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Aren't some games only available by leasing them?



Most of the "big fancy" games like WAP's and themed games are only available on a participation basis. The manufacturer will place the games for free but take 20% or so of the win and many have a daily minimum that must be paid. For example, a game like Wheel of Fortune would be a participation game where IGT might get 20% of the win with a minimum of $30 a day. So IGT would get about $900 a month even if the game made no money. If the machine had a good month IGT would get 20% of the win.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
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December 5th, 2020 at 8:36:43 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888


I found this to be a fairly tough calculation. On the Royal Seeker Return Table from the link above, the Wizard also reports the probability of getting all the other various poker hands on the payout table (Jacks or Better up to a straight flush). I can see how to do that, but I must tell you that, in my opinion, the Royal Seeker Return Table was really an impressive combination math calculation by Wizard!



It's not difficult to get the answer. Just set all payoffs to zero except the RF and the calculators will do the work for you.


Hand NamePayoutProbabilityCycleVarianceReturn %
Royal 8000.000043326 23080.7 27.726 3.4661%
Str_Flush 00.000031433 31813.9 0.000 0.0000%
Quads 00.000218609 4574.38 0.000 0.0000%
Full_House 00.001349264 741.144 0.000 0.0000%
Flush 00.004307323 232.162 0.000 0.0000%
Straight 00.004925848 203.010 0.000 0.0000%
Trips 00.020206871 49.4881 0.000 0.0000%
Two_Pair 00.046190698 21.6493 0.000 0.0000%
JOB 00.203925181 4.90376 0.000 0.0000%
Nada 00.718801446 1.39120 0.001 0.0000%
----1.000000000-- 27.728 3.4661%

# HeldProbability% of RFRF Cycle
00.00000020205 0.47% 4949257
10.00000373455 8.62% 267770
20.00001476432 34.08% 67731
30.00001539077 35.52% 64974
40.00000769539 17.76% 129948
50.00000153908 3.55% 649740
Any0.00004332615 100.00% 23081


You can easily confirm this with JB's calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/

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