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DRich
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March 21st, 2020 at 1:53:00 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

But then you risk infecting other people if you have it and don't change your habits. Do you see how selfish that is?



Yes I do, but as others have said I am a sociopath.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
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March 21st, 2020 at 1:54:08 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

As an older person, my thought is that I have lived a good life and if I get it I get it. I won't materially changes my habits.



As an older person, my thought is that I have lived a good life and if i get it I get it. I am significantly changing my habits to decrease that chance. And thus decreasing the chance I pass it on to the ones I care for.

If your bad decisions get you infected but you have a mild case, but your wife dies as a result of her getting the virus from you, you'll be happy you didn't 'materially change my habits?"
DRich
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March 21st, 2020 at 1:56:21 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO



If your bad decisions get you infected but you have a mild case, but your wife dies as a result of her getting the virus from you, you'll be happy you didn't 'materially change my habits?"



No I would not be happy, but I am willing to take that chance. I am very selfish.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TigerWu
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March 21st, 2020 at 1:56:56 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Yes I do, but as others have said I am a sociopath.



Oh, right... forgot who I was talking to for a second.

Anyway, I see all these stores are refusing to accept returns on things like rice, toilet paper, and other things people hoarded. I don't get it.... are these people not going to need that stuff in the future? Why not just hang on to it?
SOOPOO
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March 21st, 2020 at 1:59:22 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Oh, right... forgot who I was talking to for a second.

Anyway, I see all these stores are refusing to accept returns on things like rice, toilet paper, and other things people hoarded. I don't get it.... are these people not going to need that stuff in the future? Why not just hang on to it?



What areas are now overstocked with those things enough that people have no fears anymore?
petroglyph
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March 21st, 2020 at 2:29:07 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

My wife and I both work in retail (both "non-essential" industries). Pretty much all of our customers recently have been older people/senior citizens.

I don't get it. They're the biggest at-risk group right now. Do they just not give a **** that they're putting themselves, and subsequently others, at risk? It just seems so incredibly stupid and selfish to me.

If this gets any worse over the next few days (which I'm sure it will) I'm just gonna tell my boss I'm not coming in anymore until this whole thing blows over.

All the young and strong beat all the old folk to the supply chain and bought out all the tp and essentials, rudely I might add.

When are old folk supposed to replenish our meager supply's?

Would you be available to drive down here and terminate someone on a ventilator, for a fee of course ? Asking for a friend.
petroglyph
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March 21st, 2020 at 2:31:35 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Oh, right... forgot who I was talking to for a second.

Anyway, I see all these stores are refusing to accept returns on things like rice, toilet paper, and other things people hoarded. I don't get it.... are these people not going to need that stuff in the future? Why not just hang on to it?

Is that old people trying to return the overage they clamored over the young and quick to hoard?
darkoz
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odiousgambit
March 21st, 2020 at 2:39:34 PM permalink
I suspect a lot of people hoarded to extort exorbitant fees thru eBay and Amazon sales

Then found out

A) the supply chain isn't broke

B) Amazon and eBay are deleting scalp-like pricing

Now they want to return the product. I guess joke is on them.
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SOOPOO
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March 21st, 2020 at 2:46:11 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph



Would you be available to drive down here and terminate someone on a ventilator, for a fee of course ? Asking for a friend.



Your question may be tongue in cheek, but these decisions are made every day.
If someone had enough life left in them that they pre -determined to be a 'full code' and thus wanted everything possible done, I would advise to not 'pull the plug' if the reason they are intubated is because of coronavirus. Colleagues have told me maybe half will get better. And as opposed to someone whose main illness is long term (metastatic cancer, massive stroke, severe traumatic brain injury) once recovered from coronavirus you may be fully recovered.

If your grandpa is a 92 year old demented individual who is basically unaware of his surroundings I'm hoping the steps have been taken care of to not ever allow him to be on a ventilator.
TigerWu
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AxelWolf
March 21st, 2020 at 2:50:14 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

All the young and strong beat all the old folk to the supply chain and bought out all the tp and essentials, rudely I might add.

When are old folk supposed to replenish our meager supply's?



I'm not talking about going to grocery stores, which obviously everyone should have access to whenever they need it... I'm talking about non-essential/non-life-sustaining/whatever retail stores.... there's a pandemic going on, entire States and countries are shutting down, and these old folk are out here shopping for luxury goods.

But to actually answer your specific question, a lot of grocery stores are reserving certain times for older and more susceptible people to do their shopping.

Quote:

Would you be available to drive down here and terminate someone on a ventilator, for a fee of course ? Asking for a friend.



I don't know what that has to do with shopping, but what kind of fee are we talking here?

Quote: petroglyph

Is that old people trying to return the overage they clamored over the young and quick to hoard?



I don't who is trying to do the returning. I've just seen the signs in stores about not accepting returns for certain products.

Quote: darkoz

Now they want to return the product. I guess joke is on them.



But even if someone hoarded a year's worth of toilet paper, why return it? It won't go bad... now that's one less thing you have to worry about buying on future shopping trips. Just keep it.
petroglyph
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March 21st, 2020 at 3:32:57 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I'm not talking about going to grocery stores, which obviously everyone should have access to whenever they need it... I'm talking about non-essential/non-life-sustaining/whatever retail stores.... there's a pandemic going on, entire States and countries are shutting down, and these old folk are out here shopping for luxury goods.

But to actually answer your specific question, a lot of grocery stores are reserving certain times for older and more susceptible people to do their shopping.

Sounds like I misunderstood? I've been to several medical visits in the last few years, and I agree with you. I'm down to two rolls and rationing. And I'm only looking to get one pack, some butter, eggs and a few other essentials. The "senior hour" isn't for me. Those people can get pretty brutal. They didn't get that old, without having some moves.

It's sad, but some old folk are so lonely, they make Dr. appt's for a social life. That is one of the most helpful things I learned from a cancer nurse at the Mayo.

It can take a few weeks or even months to get in to the Mayo for an exam. I waited and got in, and a nurse sat me down and told me, how it is . She said a lot of older people wait weeks to get in here, and all they want to do, is talk. She said, I have to see about 4 patients per hour, and you have already used five minutes, what do you want to do with the other ten?

I really appreciated her frankness. What I got out of it is, know what you want, be your own best advocate, and get to it. Also, limit it to 3 items : ) Can you imagine the years of training these professionals have been through, just to be jacked for some social time by lonely seniors?

Quote:

I don't know what that has to do with shopping, but what kind of fee are we talking here?

Interesting.

Quote:

I don't who is trying to do the returning. I've just seen the signs in stores about not accepting returns for certain products.

IDK, but that one guy had over 17,000 bottles of hand sanitizer, and sold some on E-bay for up to 80 dollars per.
Wizard
Administrator
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March 21st, 2020 at 4:36:15 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Anyway, I see all these stores are refusing to accept returns on things like rice, toilet paper, and other things people hoarded. I don't get it.... are these people not going to need that stuff in the future? Why not just hang on to it?



I so applaud the stores for that policy. I think the motive to return the stuff would be that some food like rice and beans go bad, not to mention the storage space. EvenBob said even canned food can go bad, depending on acidity, but I don't know if that's true.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
bobbartop
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March 21st, 2020 at 5:20:11 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I so applaud the stores for that policy. I think the motive to return the stuff would be that some food like rice and beans go bad, not to mention the storage space. EvenBob said even canned food can go bad, depending on acidity, but I don't know if that's true.




It's definitely true. Canned food can go bad.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
onenickelmiracle
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March 21st, 2020 at 5:45:54 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

It's definitely true. Canned food can go bad.



I don't even think it's close to being likely unless the cans lose their seal from rust or damage. If it doesn't stink like hell when you open it, it's most likely safe and you're better to eat it than to starve.
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AxelWolf
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March 21st, 2020 at 6:05:11 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I so applaud the stores for that policy. I think the motive to return the stuff would be that some food like rice and beans go bad, not to mention the storage space. EvenBob said even canned food can go bad, depending on acidity, but I don't know if that's true.

I'm sure it depends on what kind of canned food and how it was stored. In the right situation I'm sure some types of canned food would last over 20 years and still be edible. Anything a couple years old should probably be fine.
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darkoz
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March 21st, 2020 at 6:12:22 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I don't even think it's close to being likely unless the cans lose their seal from rust or damage. If it doesn't stink like hell when you open it, it's most likely safe and you're better to eat it than to starve.



Of course canned food expires... Otherwise they would not all come with clearly printed expiration dates

The longest I have ever seen is five years in the future



For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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March 21st, 2020 at 6:49:10 PM permalink
A best by date is not an expiration date. If it was it would say so or say dispose of after this date. I've eaten c-rations from the Korean War and have heard of people opening hundred year old cans and it being edible
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
onenickelmiracle
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March 21st, 2020 at 7:05:36 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Of course canned food expires... Otherwise they would not all come with clearly printed expiration dates

The longest I have ever seen is five years in the future





Agreed with Bill Ryan. It might not look the best, but it will be fine until it's not. You'll know when it isn't most of the time. Expiration dates are pretty useless for safety. Obviously, a store doesn't want to sell people food which may be old and not taste right as expected. Sometimes expiration dates are just so people throw food out and buy more.
I am a robot.
petroglyph
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March 21st, 2020 at 7:26:47 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Agreed with Bill Ryan. It might not look the best, but it will be fine until it's not. You'll know when it isn't most of the time. Expiration dates are pretty useless for safety. Obviously, a store doesn't want to sell people food which may be old and not taste right as expected. Sometimes expiration dates are just so people throw food out and buy more.

Having home canned since the 70's and also my family fore me, food lasts a long time properly canned. We went by the rule, if it hasn't lost it's seal it wouldn't hurt you. I know we've eaten ten year old king salmon, it wasn't as good as fresh but no one got sick.

I used to give my older rotation of store bought to the xmas food drives, as did a lot of other people. Now they won't accept food if the date hasn't expired. So I don't care if I ever donate another can. It's good enough for me to eat it, it should be good enough for freebies, imho.
bw
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petroglyph
March 21st, 2020 at 7:52:42 PM permalink
There is a youtube channel where they open old cans, here is one video where they open 20-30 year old cans, but if you check his other videos he has some cans that are much older:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIdv_pnkHJk
onenickelmiracle
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March 21st, 2020 at 8:15:59 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Having home canned since the 70's and also my family fore me, food lasts a long time properly canned. We went by the rule, if it hasn't lost it's seal it wouldn't hurt you. I know we've eaten ten year old king salmon, it wasn't as good as fresh but no one got sick.

I used to give my older rotation of store bought to the xmas food drives, as did a lot of other people. Now they won't accept food if the date hasn't expired. So I don't care if I ever donate another can. It's good enough for me to eat it, it should be good enough for freebies, imho.



Most people aren't even average intelligence, they'll open a can full of botulism which smells like feces and eat it. They're the ones the food drives need to protect, it makes sense when you don't put yourself in the situation.
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odiousgambit
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March 22nd, 2020 at 4:04:23 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Most people aren't even average intelligence, they'll open a can full of botulism which smells like feces and eat it. They're the ones the food drives need to protect, it makes sense when you don't put yourself in the situation.

If you heat the food, you can smell it's not right. If not, or not heated well, it can fool you.

As for canned food you buy, cans of tomatoes at least eventually swell, a matter of years. Might not hurt you to eat that, but who would? I also had a can of sauerkraut leak after about 5 years [my wife had bought Bavarian type, which I don't like but I couldn't make myself toss it till this happened. ]

As for home-canned food, seems like I have to keep saying this. I'll look for a link see link below. That it has sealed does not mean it is safe in many cases and fish would be one of those cases. If the internal temperature reached only just above boiling, bacterial spores can survive - the food can have botulism. Acidic foods do not require the extra hot 240 degrees F that non-acidic canned foods require using pressure cookers, and the right procedure, so in the case of acidic food like relish made with vinegar, if the jar has sealed it is safe.

Be careful about home canned food someone has given you. Thorough boiling does make the food safe to eat but it might taste bad. Only learned that recently. Botulism is the toxic by-product of bacterial activity, it's not the germs themselves that get you.

These are things I have learned from always having used a lot of canned foods and from home-canning.

>>>

https://extension.psu.edu/lets-preserve-basics-of-home-canning

Low-Acid Foods

Low-acid foods include meats and vegetables (except for acidified tomatoes and pickled products). Low-acid foods lack the acidity needed to inhibit the growth of bacteria and spores that can survive the temperature of boiling water (212°F). The bacterium of greatest concern in home canning is Clostridium botulinum because it can produce spores that generate a dangerous toxin that causes food poisoning. Botulism spores thrive on low-acid foods in the absence of air, in the presence of moisture, and at room temperature—the conditions inside a jar of home-canned meat or vegetables. While spores of Clostridium botulinum may survive a boiling water bath, they are destroyed when processed in a pressure canner where the temperature can reach 240°F or higher.
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jjjoooggg
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March 22nd, 2020 at 12:08:34 PM permalink
I recall stores carry only 3 days of inventory. So the hoarders actually took a limited amount. If the rationing continues, theoretically the supplies should recover.
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jjjoooggg
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March 22nd, 2020 at 3:10:30 PM permalink
I read that china was on a 2 month lockdown. But still able to run to the grocery store or see doctor.

Im going to experiment with small square damp newspaper
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Carvillmon
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April 28th, 2020 at 1:46:24 PM permalink
However, the whole thing is a mess. It may be possible for supplies to last 6 months or more, but if this whole problem spreads longer than expected, it will create more chaos and people will continue to hoard much more out of selfishness. Clearly the industries are paralyzed and there is no way that all the establishments have enough supplies for everyone, that makes it very complicated to be locked up for so long at home. Besides, many are out of work, including me.
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