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rxwine
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:02:42 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster


depression is treatable - if it recurs it can be treated by different methods - your message is dark and ugly



This I don't know. I don't know if all depression is treatable. I also think it's possible that recurring depression even if it is treatable may just wear someone out eventually.

If you ever had a repeating condition that takes a lot of energy to deal with it can wear you down. Or wear most people down.

Youth suicide is the one that seems most concerning to me, because so many young people often mistake short term problems as long term ones. If no one convinces them otherwise they may do themselves in without ever realizing their "end of the world" feeling can actually fade and even disappear over time.
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AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 2:13:29 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

No, they don't. Tesla uses multiple radar systems and doesn't need to communicate with anything else.



That is not what he is saying. What he is saying and is true is that a few self-driving cars among regular cars are a huge danger. They will drive slower and different than humans, causing congestion and accidents.

An example would be when everyone is safely doing a few miles over the speed limit. The one person at the limit or lower causes congestion and other issues, they are a bigger danger than everyone going a few miles over.
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 2:54:14 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

then why have we as a society never considered that option (other than euthanasia for people in horrible physical pain)
we all must be 𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐏𝐈𝐃 not to have realized the brilliance of your simple solution

Many societies accept suicide and respect it. Think of the Romans, for example. But they were reasoning about the right reasons to do it and the reasons not to.
It is the religious authorities that banned suicide. With no explanation, just threat (as always with religion). Who is stupid?
Please note there is nothing in the Gospel to prohibit suicide, it is the clergy’s invention.

Quote: lilredrooster

you basically state that mental anguish (depression) is the same as horrible physical pain from stage 5 cancer
not even close to being true - stage 5 cancer is a death sentence
depression is treatable - if it recurs it can be treated by different methods - your message is dark and ugly

You definitely don’t know what depression feels like. I do not wish it on you, but until you experience it, please refrain from talking nonsense.

To put it in perspective, profound depression is not a death sentence. It is a life sentence, and life so insufferable a prospect that the person prefers to die.

Treatment is a joke. They don’t know what works and how or when. They tap at random until, by chance, something works. Quacks. One even got me to try electro shocks ; later on I discovered that the papers I had signed (while under duress of depression) were an agreement to participate in tests. And it did not help my condition.

Want to know the worst? All those people who visit you in the hospital telling you how you’ve got friends, but never show up when you’re out. Would the world really mind if you suicide?

Back in 1980, Queen sang « Don’t try suicide - nobody cares »
As a teenager I wondered: but if nobody cares, why NOT suicide?
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 4:38:14 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

then why have we as a society never considered that option (other than euthanasia for people in horrible physical pain)

we all must be 𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐏𝐈𝐃 not to have realized the brilliance of your simple solution

you basically state that mental anguish (depression) is the same as horrible physical pain from stage 5 cancer
not even close to being true - stage 5 cancer is a death sentence
depression is treatable - if it recurs it can be treated by different methods - your message is dark and ugly

you have a strong mind - your writing is effective
it's a shame you use it to put out nonsense like this



1. I don’t know why society has never considered it. Something about the fundamental value of human life, probably.

2. I didn’t call anyone stupid or suggest it’s a brilliant solution.

3. I didn’t call them the same, quit putting words in my mouth. Depression is likely far less bad than horrible physical pain.

4. Life itself is a death sentence, cancer or otherwise, everybody dies anyway.

5. Thanks for the compliments as to my writing.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Wizard
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August 5th, 2019 at 4:46:02 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

This I don't know. I don't know if all depression is treatable. I also think it's possible that recurring depression even if it is treatable may just wear someone out eventually.



This is a deep topic, but I feel most depression is treatable. Unfortunately, many Americans still don't have health insurance or don't ask for help. For mild to moderate cases, finding the right drug and dosage goes a long way.

If anyone reading this is struggling from depression, I welcome you to PM me to discuss it. It is a subject I know a thing or two about. Contrary to what Mission says, one should not be allowed to take his own life with a treatable condition.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:04:26 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This is a deep topic, but I feel most depression is treatable. Unfortunately, many Americans still don't have health insurance or don't ask for help. For mild to moderate cases, finding the right drug and dosage goes a long way.

If anyone reading this is struggling from depression, I welcome you to PM me to discuss it. It is a subject I know a thing or two about. Contrary to what Mission says, one should not be allowed to take his own life with a treatable condition.



I have multiple thoughts here. IMHO most mild "depression" is people who expect an unrealistic world for themselves. In the real world you do not get a huge apartment right around the corner from a neat coffeehouse and your problem of the week is not solved in 28 minutes. You do not get to hold some fascinating job by age 28 where you are surrounded by hot coworkers and you do not find a hot, new SO once a month. People see this on TV and compare it to their boring life, something must be wrong.

OTOH, severe depression I do not think is treatable in most cases because I think it is "wired in" to some people. Ever notice that the most creative people seem to be the ones depressed? The one who makes the fascinating art or is the great lead singer often is a basket case. Some kind of balance is off.

The problem with pills is they always will have side effects. You cannot just change one thing with meds and one thing only. My thought anyhow.
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:35:58 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I have multiple thoughts here. IMHO most mild "depression" is people who expect an unrealistic world for themselves. In the real world you do not get a huge apartment right around the corner from a neat coffeehouse and your problem of the week is not solved in 28 minutes. You do not get to hold some fascinating job by age 28 where you are surrounded by hot coworkers and you do not find a hot, new SO once a month. People see this on TV and compare it to their boring life, something must be wrong.



The above paragraph has exactly nothing to do with depression, mild or otherwise. The above notion that depression comes by way of, “Expecting,” such things and not getting them is far too ridiculous to be worthy of a response. I wouldn’t even know where to begin fixing this misconception of what depression entails.

Depression, at least for me, is about every little task seeming more arduous and insurmountable than it actually is or would be for anybody who is not depressed. It’s about the fact that it requires one to constantly, “Dig deep,” in order to do anything at all. Procrastination. Distraction.

You need to call somebody about something, you pick up the phone and call them. You actually want to do it and get it out of the way. In my case, I groan and sigh and delay it as long as I can unless I’m on one of my increasingly rare manic highs, during which time it’s easier to be productive. If you’re depressed, you don’t want to deal with anything at all because it saps the very little energy you already have.

But then, you have a, “Good day,” and are very productive. On this good day, it occurs to you that the tasks that you found so difficult aren’t actually that bad and the results (productivity) are repeatable. Unfortunately, today becomes tomorrow and you wake up feeling the same way you did the day before the productive day. Everything seems odious again.

In the meantime, the longer you delay these things, the more difficult they seem to become. In my case, I set times for myself to start doing things, but then those times come and go, and so I set new times.

It’s a feeling of complete and utter listlessness which has nothing to do with not being rich or sleeping with a new person every month. I don’t care whether I’m rich or not and I’ve no desire to sleep with anyone, exception to my fiancé with whom I’ve been in a relationship with for over five years.

It’s the fact that you already feel completely exhausted, exception to manic highs, and every little thing you do makes you feel more exhausted. It’s the fact that I could spend the rest of my life in a room with books and a computer, alone, and that generally seems preferable to the things that most other people seem to find both easy and desirable.

You don’t want to live, but you do it anyway, and most days you’re not even sure why. I guess some of it comes out of a sense of responsibility, but that will only take you so far. You’re not suicidal, but if a bus were to accidentally hit you and cause you to die; you’d take it in a heartbeat.

That’s also not to say that nothing makes you happy, sometimes social and familial things make you happy, as they would anyone else. In the meantime, every little negative thing you have to deal with is amplified 100 times what it would be for most people. You often shut down and take a five hour nap in the middle of the day just to wake up feeling more tired than you did prior to laying on the couch.

The more you stop, the harder it becomes to start. Giving up on things becomes easier and easier until it’s your default position.

During all of this, you have to come off as happy to the people you know, or most of them would abandon you and not want to talk to you anymore. It’s really tough to pretend to be happy and hopeful.

Anyway, that’s what depression is. Also, many depressed people live the sort of life you describe in your quoted paragraph and are profoundly depressed all the same. It has nothing to do with personal wealth or success in any other regard.

I don’t have any issue with the rest of your post.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:38:30 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The above paragraph has exactly nothing to do with depression, mild or otherwise. The above notion that depression comes by way of, “Expecting,” such things and not getting them is far too ridiculous to be worthy of a response. I wouldn’t even know where to begin fixing this misconception of what depression entails.



Which is my point. People think they are "depressed" when they are not. They are in a bad situation or in a rut. I've been there. Broke, awful job I hated, no social life, no way out. You are not suicidal but you do wake up figuring "what's the use/point?" The answer to this is not to be put on dope but to fix a thing or two at a time and improve your life. But we live in a society that requires an instant response.

Weirdest thing I remember is I met a guy went on Prozac. Doc told him, "you will not notice a difference, but everyone around you will." That says something.
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:43:57 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Which is my point. People think they are "depressed" when they are not.



How is that your point? If someone walked into a psychiatrist and said what you put in that paragraph is the problem, it would take an incredibly irresponsible psychiatrist to try to medicate someone for that. I don’t know who you are referring to that is claiming to be, “Depressed,” because of that.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:07:06 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

<…> It’s the fact that I could spend the rest of my life in a room with books and a computer, alone, and that generally seems preferable to the things that most other people seem to find both easy and desirable.

You don’t want to live, but you do it anyway, and most days you’re not even sure why. I guess some of it comes out of a sense of responsibility, but that will only take you so far. You’re not suicidal, but if a bus were to accidentally hit you and cause you to die; you’d take it in a heartbeat.

<…>

During all of this, you have to come off as happy to the people you know, or most of them would abandon you and not want to talk to you anymore. It’s really tough to pretend to be happy and hopeful.

THANK YOU, mate!
Not only do you put words on my (our) suffering, but you made me realise that I’m not out of it, contrary to what I thought.

See, that’s the effect of medicines. They make me think all is right, that my behaviour is wanted and healthy and I’ve reached some sort of wisdom. Yet you show me this is depressive behaviour.

I am content to stay at home with my cat, my books and my computer. I decline invitations. When I project an evening or a holiday, by the time I should go I think I’m finally better at home.
I’m not suicidal anymore, but I welcome death without fear, except for breaking my cat’s heart. The heart of humans I don’t care about anymore.
When I expressed my regret to my nephew that I didn’t see his kids enough, he told me very kindly that ‘’you don’t trust your children to someone depressed’’.

Well, I’m through pretending, at least.

If I am ever to go back working again, I’d probably rather kill myself than have to show respect to the most despicable form of life on Earth: a boss. If I lived in America, I’d probably shoot all the management before...
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SOOPOO
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:27:41 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

No, they don't. Tesla uses multiple radar systems and doesn't need to communicate with anything else.



Questions for you..... If the Tesla has to choose between running over the small child or larger deer does it automatically choose the child?
How strongly will it avoid a pothole versus risking hitting another object?
If there is a human with a sign saying 'slow down, workers ahead' will the Tesla read the sign?

So many reasons I think it is decades away from any real use.
tringlomane
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:32:35 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

In the USA, over the last decade, about 50 people per year die in mass shootings.

In an average year in the USA about 40,000 people die in car accidents, 4,000 in swimming accidents and 800 in bicycle accidents.

Just going by the numbers, shouldn’t we be banning cars first? Would save 100 people every day.



NO, cars are about 10,000 times more useful to the general public. And yes, I pulled that number out of my ass, but I think 10,000 times is on the low end.

I also think I might be one of the first posters to try to answer the OP directly sadly. Most of this thread devolved.
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:33:59 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

THANK YOU, mate!
Not only do you put words on my (our) suffering, but you made me realise that I’m not out of it, contrary to what I thought.

See, that’s the effect of medicines. They make me think all is right, that my behaviour is wanted and healthy and I’ve reached some sort of wisdom. Yet you show me this is depressive behaviour.

I am content to stay at home with my cat, my books and my computer. I decline invitations. When I project an evening or a holiday, by the time I should go I think I’m finally better at home.
I’m not suicidal anymore, but I welcome death without fear, except for breaking my cat’s heart. The heart of humans I don’t care about anymore.
When I expressed my regret to my nephew that I didn’t see his kids enough, he told me very kindly that ‘’you don’t trust your children to someone depressed’’.

Well, I’m through pretending, at least.

If I am ever to go back working again, I’d probably rather kill myself than have to show respect to the most despicable form of life on Earth: a boss. If I lived in America, I’d probably shoot all the management before...



You’re welcome, but I object to the use of the word, “Suffering.” Starving people are suffering. Depression is just being stuck with being who you are and feeling how you feel. I’ll take it over starving to death, given the choice.

I would recommend enjoying the effect of your medicines, my post really wasn’t meant as a call to arms.

I rather like my, “Bosses,” which are the owners and managers of the sites, so I’m afraid we’re separate in that.

Quite frankly, I really like most people, I just don’t want to be forced to having to deal with people. Dealing with them on my terms (like posting) isn’t so bad.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:41:18 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You’re welcome, but I object to the use of the word “Suffering.”

False friend, again. I guess the word ‘’souffrance’’ would have been better translated as ‘’pain’’ than ‘’suffering’’.
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Wizard
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:41:52 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

IMHO most mild "depression" is people who expect an unrealistic world for themselves. In the real world you do not get a huge apartment right around the corner from a neat coffeehouse and your problem of the week is not solved in 28 minutes. You do not get to hold some fascinating job by age 28 where you are surrounded by hot coworkers and you do not find a hot, new SO once a month. People see this on TV and compare it to their boring life, something must be wrong.



What are your qualifications to diagnosis mental disorders?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:49:12 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

False friend, again. I guess the word ‘’souffrance’’ would have been better translated as ‘’pain’’ than ‘’suffering’’.



I object to the use of the word pain.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:51:32 AM permalink
😊
Well what’s the word then? ‘‘Enduring’’? ‘‘Hurting’’?
Like in « Love Hurts »?
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:53:49 AM permalink
Depression. It’s just being who you are. It’s not brought upon by any kind of external source.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:56:44 AM permalink
Internal, then.
I think it is all biochemical. Or genetic, which for me is the same.

But, like a love crush, it may be induced by external factors.

And it DOES hurt!
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:58:23 AM permalink
New project:
Remake the lyrics of the Everly Brothers / Nazareth song into
« Life Hurts »
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 8:02:43 AM permalink
Distress would be most accurate. I’ve said everything I have to say on the subject, we should get back to the primary purpose of this thread.

I’ll take responsibility for the derailment. It all started when I said that suicides should not count towards, “Gun violence,” numbers because I don’t think they qualify as violence. That was relevant to the conversation and I did not realize it would lead to this tangent, so I apologize.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 8:19:33 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What are your qualifications to diagnosis mental disorders?



Just having gone thru life and seen things, hence the "IMHO."
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EvenBob
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August 5th, 2019 at 10:00:23 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

No, they don't. Tesla uses multiple radar systems and doesn't need to communicate with anything else.



So you think the 15 different cars
made by 15 different companies
won't need to talk to each other.
Uh huh, right..
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terapined
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August 5th, 2019 at 10:04:54 AM permalink
Trump is blaming video games
WTF
Video games are played all over the planet.
Video games are not the problem or Asia would be experience these massacres
Everybody knows, Asian teams kick ass in violent video game tournaments
Steverinos
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August 5th, 2019 at 10:07:42 AM permalink
He might as well have blamed it on Marilyn Manson.
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 10:27:06 AM permalink
Quote: Steverinos

He might as well have blamed it on Marilyn Manson.



I blame organized religion.

I don’t think that had anything to do with either of these two cases, but if we’re allowed to just arbitrarily name scapegoats or things we don’t like, I’m going with organized religion.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Tanko
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August 5th, 2019 at 10:37:47 AM permalink
Five presidents. Same wooden, mass shooting speech we’ve been listening to for the past 30 years.

An assault rifle with a 100 round drum magazine, is a WMD. Just add lunatic.

Blames the Internet, video games, social media, and mental illness. No mention of the fire power at their disposal.

“Words without thoughts never to heaven go.” - Claudius

Wizard
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August 5th, 2019 at 11:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Just having gone thru life and seen things, hence the "IMHO."



There is a difference between a normal temporary sense of depression, like after your dog dies, and suffering from it all the time, whether there is a legitimate external reason for it or not.
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AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 11:35:34 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

There is a difference between a normal temporary sense of depression, like after your dog dies, and suffering from it all the time, whether there is a legitimate external reason for it or not.



I agree there is. I am just saying it can be misdiagnosed.
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rxwine
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:29:30 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Questions for you..... If the Tesla has to choose between running over the small child or larger deer does it automatically choose the child?



It explodes, saving both.
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MaxPen
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August 5th, 2019 at 1:24:24 PM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

THANK YOU, mate!
Not only do you put words on my (our) suffering, but you made me realise that I’m not out of it, contrary to what I thought.

See, that’s the effect of medicines. They make me think all is right, that my behaviour is wanted and healthy and I’ve reached some sort of wisdom. Yet you show me this is depressive behaviour.

I am content to stay at home with my cat, my books and my computer. I decline invitations. When I project an evening or a holiday, by the time I should go I think I’m finally better at home.
I’m not suicidal anymore, but I welcome death without fear, except for breaking my cat’s heart. The heart of humans I don’t care about anymore.
When I expressed my regret to my nephew that I didn’t see his kids enough, he told me very kindly that ‘’you don’t trust your children to someone depressed’’.

Well, I’m through pretending, at least.

If I am ever to go back working again, I’d probably rather kill myself than have to show respect to the most despicable form of life on Earth: a boss. If I lived in America, I’d probably shoot all the management before...



Explains alot.
Wizard
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August 5th, 2019 at 1:27:57 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I agree there is. I am just saying it can be misdiagnosed.



Okay, I think we just differ in semantics a bit.
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lilredrooster
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August 5th, 2019 at 1:37:45 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Depression, at least for me, is about




in your post you never mentioned what treatment you are getting
I'm going to make an assumption, and I apologize in advance if I'm wrong
but I have a feeling you haven't gotten much of any treatment

that is true of many men with both physical and mental problems - certain varieties of men resist going to Doctors for anything

as far as depression is concerned new and more effective meds are coming out every year
they affect and stimulate different areas of the brain

there is a problem in that the psychiatrists don't really know which one will be effective with which patient - it's basically a guess

but if one is not effective they move on and try another one

it's far from a perfect system - but it's also far from hopeless

you might be surprised as to how effective some of these meds are

I once knew a young woman who I could best describe as being like a Zombie - she was extremely depressed and it was very obvious in her demeanor - she would wear only the frumpiest dark clothing - old, unstylish sweat pants and dark colored ill fitting old tee shirts

I saw her again a few months later after treatment and talked to her and she was an attractive young woman smiling and getting on with her life - working again - the transformation was incredible


the link is to a blog where many different depressed people write about their experience
I'm not saying you should read what others have experienced about depression - it's not my place to give you advice
I just put it out there for anybody who is interested


https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/category/blog/depression?page=2
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Aug 5, 2019
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petroglyph
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August 5th, 2019 at 4:16:10 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Five presidents. Same wooden, mass shooting speech we’ve been listening to for the past 30 years.

An assault rifle with a 100 round drum magazine, is a WMD. Just add lunatic.

Blames the Internet, video games, social media, and mental illness. No mention of the fire power at their disposal.

“Words without thoughts never to heaven go.” - Claudius

Thanks, there's no way I would have watched a POTUS speech, but this one looked enticing when you posted it. I'm so glad Trump didn't jump through his butt trying to please the gun confiscators in our midst.

Taking guns away from honest patriots is a bad idea. These recent killings have inspired me to conceal carry even more than I did. I hope enough others feel the same and are willing to shoot these crazy's when the opportunity presents.
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