Poll

28 votes (90.32%)
3 votes (9.67%)

31 members have voted

AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2010 at 5:44:57 PM permalink
This drives me crazy anytime I see it and I saw it again today. Peoploe who would never throw trash out their window will just toss a cigarette out of their car, making the road and landscape their ashtray instread of putting the butts out in their car. I swear if I was mayor I would use unmarked cars with cameras and fine people $2-300 per offense for doing it. And I am the last person who says we need more laws for the sake of more laws.

In Arizona I remember this was taken seriously as a brush-fire hazard. I would assume NV has similar conditions, though it is a problem anywhere.

Looking at it, I see many smokers (if you smoke don't take it personally unless you are guilty) do this all the time. Ashtray right there and butts all over the place near it but not in it.

What is the deal with this?
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Ayecarumba
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November 8th, 2010 at 5:48:40 PM permalink
Butts seem to last forever. I don't think the filters degrade for years. Definitely qualifies as litter.
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thecesspit
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November 8th, 2010 at 5:50:09 PM permalink
It's a huge fine if you do it in BC's timber country.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
JerryLogan
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November 8th, 2010 at 6:00:30 PM permalink
Not only should the offender be ticketed BIG TIME for it, he should get another one for extreme stupidity for smoking & ignorance in the first place.
jackblack21
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November 8th, 2010 at 6:11:32 PM permalink
Guilty as charged. I'm not saying this is right or even logical, but this may answer your question as to why. Personally, I throw butts out of my window because an ashtray full of butts makes my vehicle smell much worse than simply smoking in it. It's ironic that I don't mind smelling like an ashtray or smoking in my house or vehicle, but I don't want "my personal space" littered up with butts so I dump them on the rest of the world. At home I flush them down the toilet instead of stinking up the trash cans with them. Strange that I should be so considerate of other people in other ways but so inconsiderate when it comes to my nasty habit. I do try to keep my smoke from blowing in others faces and I do try to use public ashtrays when available, and I do avoid throwing butts out the window when I see particularly flammable material beside the road (or a cop in my rear view window hehe), but that just isn't enough. World, please accept my apology for being such a jackass.
EvenBob
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November 8th, 2010 at 6:16:36 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

he should get another one for extreme stupidity for smoking & ignorance in the first place.



I disagree. Smoking is natures way of separating the idiots from the smart people so they can be targeted for extermination. (I'm kidding, smokers can't be exterminated, only ridiculed and despised)
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2010 at 6:34:34 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Butts seem to last forever. I don't think the filters degrade for years. Definitely qualifies as litter.



Filters have had some wicked stuff in them over the years. I think I read of them having fiberglass or/and asbestos depending on the brand of smokes.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
jackblack21
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November 8th, 2010 at 6:54:10 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I disagree. Smoking is natures way of separating the idiots from the smart people so they can be targeted for extermination. (I'm kidding, smokers can't be exterminated, only ridiculed and despised)



I think we already have been targeted for extermination. it's not good enough that we are killing ourselves with tar and nicotine. No, they have to go and add a cocktail of toxic chemicals to the cigarettes to ensure we die from them. Recently they came out with these "fire safety cigarettes" in which they added a chemical used to make glue. So now they are trying to glue our damn lungs shut.

As far as being idiots, I guess all people exhibit extremes at both ends of the scale. We can be geniuses in one area and morons in another. We can show loving empathy at one minute, and be so cruel the next. That's what makes us human.
EvenBob
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November 8th, 2010 at 7:07:28 PM permalink
Quote: jackblack21

I think we already have been targeted for extermination.



There is still time to redeem yourself. My dad smoked 4 packs a day for 35 years and when he was 50, in 1964, and they started putting the warning on cig packs, he quit cold turkey and lived into his 80's. On the other hand, I lost count of the people I know who've died smoking related deaths. And they're always soooooo surprised. If you hit yourself in the head with a hammer long enough, why the big surprise when you eventually reap the benefits.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AZDuffman
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November 8th, 2010 at 7:13:49 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

There is still time to redeem yourself. My dad smoked 4 packs a day for 35 years and when he was 50, in 1964, and they started putting the warning on cig packs, he quit cold turkey and lived into his 80's. On the other hand, I lost count of the people I know who've died smoking related deaths. And they're always soooooo surprised. If you hit yourself in the head with a hammer long enough, why the big surprise when you eventually reap the benefits.



Eghad-- 4 packs times 20 per pack is 80 cigs a day. Assume 3 minutes per smoke that is 240 minutes or 4 hours of smoking a day. Easier to do when you could smoke at work or anywhere else. Glad to hear he gave it up.
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Nareed
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November 8th, 2010 at 7:33:20 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

There is still time to redeem yourself. My dad smoked 4 packs a day for 35 years and when he was 50, in 1964, and they started putting the warning on cig packs, he quit cold turkey and lived into his 80's. On the other hand, I lost count of the people I know who've died smoking related deaths. And they're always soooooo surprised. If you hit yourself in the head with a hammer long enough, why the big surprise when you eventually reap the benefits.



My paternal grandfather smoked two packs a day for well over 50 years, well until the time he died at age 82... of a broken hip.

My maternal grandmother smoked over one pack per day at least as long. She died at age 83, of chronic intestinal bleeding.

On the other hand, I've lost track of people I know who died young and didn't smoke. Two classmates in junior high, one close friend, my grandmother's step son (who never smoked and died of a heart attack at age 47)....
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
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November 8th, 2010 at 7:48:38 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

My paternal grandfather smoked two packs a day for well over 50 years, well until the time he died at age 82... of a broken hip.

My maternal grandmother smoked over one pack per day at least as long. She died at age 83, of chronic intestinal bleeding.

On the other hand, I've lost track of people I know who died young and didn't smoke. Two classmates in junior high, one close friend, my grandmother's step son (who never smoked and died of a heart attack at age 47)....



Hey dude, smoke your butt off, I'm sure you're safe. Seen a pic of Michael Douglas lately? His dad's still alive, how does that fit into your rosy scenerio? At least Douglas lived longer than Bogart, he died at 57 from the same cancer.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 8th, 2010 at 7:52:00 PM permalink
It's bit like explaining pay tables on a VP game, eh? J

Just because it doesn't happen to person X, it doesn't mean that there isn't an increased risk.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
boymimbo
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November 8th, 2010 at 8:08:35 PM permalink
Throwing a cigarette butt on the street *is* littering, of course.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Nareed
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November 8th, 2010 at 8:32:14 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Hey dude, smoke your butt off, I'm sure you're safe. Seen a pic of Michael Douglas lately? His dad's still alive, how does that fit into your rosy scenerio? At least Douglas lived longer than Bogart, he died at 57 from the same cancer.



What scenario? I stated facts contrary to yours. I posed no series of likely or unlikely events.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
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November 8th, 2010 at 8:38:49 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

What scenario? I stated facts contrary to yours. I posed no series of likely or unlikely events.



You stated facts that every smoker has memorized. They know tons of people who smoked all their lives and didn't die. I think thats great, you should smoke more. It helps weed out the gene pool. Just don't induldge in your self destruction around me or you'll hear about it. I could care less who smokes, what makes the rest of us angry is that you also think its your right to force us to do it too.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
JerryLogan
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November 8th, 2010 at 9:22:19 PM permalink
Talking to smokers is always like talking to a wall with dried paint. I've seen smokers shrivel up to nothing from lung cancer and die slow painful deaths while their families were totally terrified and humiliated, yet their children and siblings continued to smoke even after witnessing the horror. It's awful hard to see a smoker these days and not think of how utterly stupid they must be to not ever have gotten it yet. And when you think of their disgusting interiors as well as their smelly, stale breath, yellowing teeth, and overall lack of self confidence and concern for others, you have to wonder why morons like these are allowed to live while people like my mother and sister were taken away so young.
avargov
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November 8th, 2010 at 10:57:02 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

You stated facts that every smoker has memorized. They know tons of people who smoked all their lives and didn't die. I think thats great, you should smoke more. It helps weed out the gene pool. Just don't induldge in your self destruction around me or you'll hear about it. I could care less who smokes, what makes the rest of us angry is that you also think its your right to force us to do it too.



I don't think there are any studies linking genetics and smoking. So smoking would not weed out any genetically deficient humans. Many intelligent and productive people smoke, including our president. As long as you are in a place that allows smoking, you really can't complain about it. Perhaps you should be the one to leave and not force your views on a smoker. And, not to split hairs, but if you could care less, then you do care.

Wonder why no one talks about the functioning alcoholic who pickles his liver?
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
Wizard
Administrator
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November 9th, 2010 at 11:25:03 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I think thats great, you should smoke more. It helps weed out the gene pool.



By the time a smoker gets lung cancer he/she is probably past his child bearing years, so I don't think there will be an effect on the gene pool. Before anyone corrects me, I know men can father children into their seventies. However, how often does that actually happen?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
dwheatley
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November 9th, 2010 at 11:41:34 AM permalink
"It's 2010. Who smokes?" - Masuka from Dexter
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
benbakdoff
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November 9th, 2010 at 1:04:50 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

This drives me crazy anytime I see it and I saw it again today. Peoploe who would never throw trash out their window will just toss a cigarette out of their car, making the road and landscape their ashtray instread of putting the butts out in their car. I swear if I was mayor I would use unmarked cars with cameras and fine people $2-300 per offense for doing it. And I am the last person who says we need more laws for the sake of more laws.

In Arizona I remember this was taken seriously as a brush-fire hazard. I would assume NV has similar conditions, though it is a problem anywhere.

Looking at it, I see many smokers (if you smoke don't take it personally unless you are guilty) do this all the time. Ashtray right there and butts all over the place near it but not in it.

What is the deal with this?



You mentioned Arizona which got me to thinking. Perhaps if these slobs did a day on Sheriff Arpaio's chain gang picking up butts, they would think twice before littering again.
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 3:39:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

By the time a smoker gets lung cancer he/she is probably past his child bearing years, so I don't think there will be an effect on the gene pool. Before anyone corrects me, I know men can father children into their seventies. However, how often does that actually happen?



It weeds out what the gene pool produced, then.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 9th, 2010 at 3:55:48 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

It weeds out what the gene pool produced, then.



Which means nothing in terms of evolution...
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AZDuffman
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November 9th, 2010 at 4:19:38 PM permalink
Quote: benbakdoff

You mentioned Arizona which got me to thinking. Perhaps if these slobs did a day on Sheriff Arpaio's chain gang picking up butts, they would think twice before littering again.



I want Joe to run for President in 2012. How many other sheriffs can anyone name unless they live there-and even then!
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EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 4:20:38 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Which means nothing in terms of evolution...



In my family, I mean my whole extended family, there isn't one smoker. My wife has an even bigger family, she has 4 sisters and a brother and they all have adult children. In both families, nobody smokes and everybody has a college education. Just a coincidence, I guess.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 9th, 2010 at 4:46:46 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

In my family, I mean my whole extended family, there isn't one smoker. My wife has an even bigger family, she has 4 sisters and a brother and they all have adult children. In both families, nobody smokes and everybody has a college education. Just a coincidence, I guess.



Yes, no, maybe.

Your sample size is far too small to make any claims linking smoking to family size and college education.

However, it actually doesn't matter, as no doubt your family is happy, healthy, wealthly and wise (*), so even if the lack of smoking is not the root cause of it, it's probably a good thing and I'm sure it's a contributing factor at some level.

(*) for at least small values of wealth at least... rather than top 2% of the US wealth. Or may be it is, it doesn't matter much to me.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 5:22:51 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Yes, no, maybe.

Your sample size is far too small to make any claims linking smoking to family size and college education.



This has been proven over and over again:

"Less than 6 percent of adults with a college degree
smoke compared with more than 25 percent of adults
with no high school diploma. About 31 percent of
people who live below the poverty line smoke."
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 9th, 2010 at 5:38:31 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

This has been proven over and over again:

"Less than 6 percent of adults with a college degree
smoke compared with more than 25 percent of adults
with no high school diploma. About 31 percent of
people who live below the poverty line smoke."



Correlation is not causation. (Though do you have a link to that study, is useful)

Is it the high school diploma that makes people not smoke, or the not smoking that gives them the high school diploma? I suspect the former. Not least as a good edu-may-kay-shun would make you more aware of the perils of tobacco.

I agree with your main point, it was just a throwaway line that old people dying of lung cancer has 0 (possibly a small) effect on the genepool. I'm really arguing your approach to the conclusion... not the conclusion itself. If I didn't make that clear, shame on me.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 5:46:17 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Correlation is not causation. (Though do you have a link to that study, is useful)

Is it the high school diploma that makes people not smoke, or the not smoking that gives them the high school diploma? I suspect the former. Not least as a good edu-may-kay-shun would make you more aware of the perils of tobacco.

I agree with your main point, it was just a throwaway line that old people dying of lung cancer has 0 (possibly a small) effect on the genepool. I'm really arguing your approach to the conclusion... not the conclusion itself. If I didn't make that clear, shame on me.



Whats not to understand? The higher the degree of your education, the better the chance that you'll 'get it' where slowly poisoning yourself is concerned. Its kind of a 'duh' situation. Its to the point now with me that when I see a smoker, I automatically think 'idiot'. I feel exactly the same when I see somebody that has pierced lips.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 9th, 2010 at 6:02:11 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Whats not to understand?



You tell me.

You seem to be aggressively agreeing with me.

I concur with the conclusion that people with high school diploma's are less likely to smoke because they are aware of the effect of smoking earlier. I concur with the study.

This doesn't mean people who don't smoke are more likely to get a high school diploma and have large, extended families.

Which is what I though you were implying by your anecdote about your extended family having no smokers. Maybe I misunderstood. It's more than likely. And if you do have a link to that study quoted previously I'd be grateful, it would be useful to have.

As an aside, why do you think the same about a pierced lip?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
AZDuffman
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November 9th, 2010 at 6:03:07 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Is it the high school diploma that makes people not smoke, or the not smoking that gives them the high school diploma? I suspect the former. Not least as a good edu-may-kay-shun would make you more aware of the perils of tobacco.

.



Well, if you keep cutting class to smoke then you won't get the diploma maybe?

On the serious side, this is an interesting question. I'd put it as a more social thing. HS dropouts hang out with other dropouts, college buddies hang with college buddies more or less. Since smoking was always seen as a "bad boy" thing the dropouts would be more likely to partake. Years ago smoking was seen as high-class, now it is the oppisite.

Smoking I never took up because I learned early it was bad for you; found it annoying; and had a relative die a long, slow death of it. Snuff I knew was bad but never took it up as I found it about the most disgusting habit I have ever seen. I'd rather people smoke outside than use that stuff around me.
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EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 6:15:41 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit



Which is what I though you were implying by your anecdote about your extended family having no smokers. Maybe I misunderstood. As an aside, why do you think the same about a pierced lip?



You misunderstood, I was pointing to college educations, not family size. I naturally assume you'd have to be a moron to get a pierced lip, and in most cases I'm sure I'm right. Try and get a job with one. I mean a regular job, not working in an S/M bookstore.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
avargov
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November 9th, 2010 at 6:48:23 PM permalink
There are seven of us. Six of us smoke. All seven have college degrees. Four have graduate degrees. I am not disagreeing wth the perils of smoking, however, a lifestyle choice does not make one a moron. I have no problem with anger at an inconsiderate smoker, but then again, perhaps I get angry at people that drive cars. I don't like the pollution that I am forced to breath in.

And society is changing. At my former employer (SBC - now AT&T) our publishing director looked like a pin cushion. You really shouldn't prejudge the intelligence of a person by their lifestyle. Unless of course you are a member of the teaparty. And just remember, the President, and the new Speaker are both smokers.

Oh, and one last thing, several of the people I was in college with didn't smoke. They did, however, drink themselves silly every chance they had. Doesn't mean they are idiots, just made bad choices.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
mkl654321
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November 9th, 2010 at 6:51:24 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Correlation is not causation.



I've discovered that anyone to whom you have to explain this concept in the first place has essentially zero chance of understanding it. The pattern-seeking primate brain rules all--including, ruling over reason.

Coupled with that is confirmation bias. Aggressively seek any evidence that supports your conclusion--ignore any evidence that doesn't.

This means that if you hate smokers, look for some kind of evidence that suggests that they're stupid. Ignore any evidence that says otherwise. Then build a false correlation based on limited data.

I dislike smokers and smoking, but I'm not about to extend that to saying that they are stupid. My not liking someone or something does not equate to "they are stupid"--it equates to "I don't like them". Insofar as proving anything one way or another, I would expect that a good look at China and India (where the percentage of smokers is much higher than the US) might provide enough data to even refute any correlation, let alone a causal link, between smoking and intelligence.

The attempt to "prove" that "smokers are stupid" obviously stems from a need to self-validate: I don't smoke, because I'm smart. How do I prove this? Well, duh--smokers are dumb. (Of course, this is a flawed syllogism--not belonging to a particular class of dumb people doesn't mean that you aren't dumb nonetheless.)
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 7:04:59 PM permalink
Quote: avargov

smoking, however, a lifestyle choice does not make one a moron.



Seriously, if you know the perils of slowly poisoning yourself, what does it make you? The smartest person in the room?
Sorry, its moronic behavior and you know it. Do you consider it a wise choice?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 7:10:35 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321



The attempt to "prove" that "smokers are stupid"



So, in your world, people who engage in stupid behavior are smart? Even you must agree that smoking is stupid, it has not one positive aspect, not one. Self destructive behavior is to be applauded now?

I remember decades ago before I married, I dated a smoker. She tasted like crap when I kissed her and her clothes always smelled like the neighborhood bar. But she was a beauty and you know how that goes. We went out to dinner with my parents once. My girl had to excuse herself twice during the meal to go outside and smoke a cigarette, it was the early days of smoking sections in restaurants. I was so embarrassed that I ended it shortly after that. Last smoker I ever dated.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
avargov
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November 9th, 2010 at 7:28:41 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Seriously, if you know the perils of slowly poisoning yourself, what does it make you? The smartest person in the room?
Sorry, its moronic behavior and you know it. Do you consider it a wise choice?



Oh, I am the self-proclaimed village idiot (or idot for mkl) of this forum. I do know that I am poisoning myself. But I also know that if I quit smoking I won't live forever. And neither will you. You see Bob, to me, smoking is like anything else, a risk. I smoke because, and you won't believe this, I enjoy it.

I also know that my risk of heart disease, COPD, cancer, et cetera is higher. I know that, on average, I will die 15 years sooner than a non smoker. But I also know that you will die. You can not smoke and still die. You can eat as healthy as possible, and get colon cancer and die. You can keep your fat intake low and still have a stroke. None of it matters...you will die. And chances are, you will die of a slow, painful, disease.

I choose to enjoy my life, and enjoy my smoke, and if I die sooner, so be it. I have no regrets, and no fear of death. I guess, even though I am a moron for smoking, I am at peace with myself.

So I shall continue to bet college football, shoot craps, play an occasional slot machine, smoke my cigarettes, drink a grey goose neat, eat red meat, struggle to get to the top of Red Cap, love my wife, love and protect my four children, and die. And at the end of the day, you will be right there next to me, dead. We will both be there right along with all of the other nonsmokers, smokers, and those that couldn't choose.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
mkl654321
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November 9th, 2010 at 8:01:04 PM permalink
Quote: avargov

Oh, I am the self-proclaimed village idiot (or idot for mkl) of this forum. I do know that I am poisoning myself. But I also know that if I quit smoking I won't live forever. And neither will you. You see Bob, to me, smoking is like anything else, a risk. I smoke because, and you won't believe this, I enjoy it.



In the first place, doing something that is either subjectively or objectively "stupid" doesn't mean that the person who does that thing is, in fact, stupid. Smart people do stupid things. In fact, stupid people do smart things. And both kinds of people do things that are only "stupid" according to someone else's point of view, but may, in fact, be smart.

Case in point from my own experience: my mother suffered from severe lower back pain due to disc slippage and sciatica, from well before I was born, until her death. She had medications available, but they would pretty much knock her for a loop and reduce her day to one long nap. So when she wanted to relieve the pain without drugs, she smoked (what a pity that marijuana wasn't available then). She died, at age 72, of cancer that was probably related to her smoking (stomach cancer). Her decision to smoke was based on a valid perception that doing so increased her quality of life. Did it shorten her life? Quite possibly. Did that make her choice to smoke "stupid"? Did that make HER "stupid"? Well, she had a master's degree from a major university--and was an expert on classical music and opera--so I would say, no.

All of us may choose pleasures that have the potential to shorten our lives. This could include smoking, drinking, buying a sports car, or rock climbing. We make a conscious tradeoff, realizing that, say, 62 happy years of life may be better than 68 less-happy years. Calling someone making such a choice "stupid" is being profoundly egocentric. Just because YOU wouldn't do something doesn't mean it's stupid for someone ELSE to do that.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
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November 9th, 2010 at 8:05:21 PM permalink
Quote: avargov

I choose to enjoy my life, and enjoy my smoke, and if I die sooner, so be it. .



Easy to say when you're not there yet. This is a very serious subject for me. I have at least 3 friends who died as a direct result of smoking and they all talked just like you. I asked all of them if it was worth it when they were indeed dying. They all, to a man, said no. The last one died a decade ago and he smoked till the end, tears running down his face as he did so. Smoke on, morons, thats my last word on the subject. Enjoy yourselves.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
thecesspit
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November 9th, 2010 at 8:30:04 PM permalink
Why the plural? There is only one self professed smoker on this thread...

I agree though, doing one stupid thing doesn't make a person stupid... Just like one winning session doesn't make a system a winner... :)
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Wizard
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November 9th, 2010 at 8:38:43 PM permalink
A good sign of intelligence is the ability to delay gratification. What would feel better right now, to study for my high school algebra test, or have a smoke with my friends in the park? I'd say the intelligent person is more likely to pick the former. He may not be rewarded for the decision for many years, but over the long run, it has the higher expected value.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
RonC
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November 10th, 2010 at 2:08:10 AM permalink
Smoking is obviously not a good thing and obnoxious smokers (like obnoxious people of all kinds!!) are nasty. That type of smoker doesn't worry about where they blow their smoke, is inconsiderate about when they smoke, etc. They only care about themselves. I'm not going to get into the whole "rights" issue but I do generally feel that your right to do any old thing you want stops when it interferes with someone else's right to not be bothered by you--stay out of my personal space unless you are invited in. Some smokers get that idea and do everything they can to avoid bothering others; some ignore the fact that smoke is an irritant to many people.

Throwing cigarette butts out the window IS littering and SHOULD be subject to fines. It is a "twofer"--the cigarette butt seems to last forever once it is tossed on the road AND you also were nice enough to attempt arson by throwing it out! How many roadside fires does it take to make one understand that cigarette butts are an immediate danger when thrown in the wrong places? A beer can, McDonald's trash, and cigarette butts are ALL litter. If you don't like the smell of your ashtray, why do you insist on making the rest of the world share in the disgusting smell? Simple--you feel your "rights" are more important than the next person's.
jackblack21
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November 10th, 2010 at 5:09:06 AM permalink
Wizard, you should be ashamed. While not participating in the mud slinging in this thread your comments would indicate that you generally agree with those who have been. I don't think you would advocate making insulting comments about people based on other things like race, sex, or religion. Yet, with smokers it's somehow a different matter. You should be setting a higher standard.

While I dislike many of the posts Mkl makes on this forum, my hat's off to him for some of the best comments in this thread.

We've all called someone a dumbass for doing one thing or another, but that is said in jest - you guys are serious. I guess you would call race car drivers, firemen, or soldiers morons for engaging in life threatening activities. Yes I know, it's not the same thing, one guy smoking cigarettes and another risking taking a bullet in defense of his country. Perhaps gambling is a better analogy. Even if you play a +EV game your chances of losing money are high. So are all of us morons for gambling? It's like Mkl said, intelligent people do stupid things and vice versa.

I don't know why I even bother to post this. When people have an ingrained mindset about something it's nearly impossible to get them to see otherwise. If you're raised to hate black people every time you see one your mind automatically says "nigger". You've been done wrong by women and now when you see one you say "whore". You've become a religious zealot, and now when you see someone not of your faith you think "heathen" or "infidel". Well, you guys have made the obvious intelligent decision not to smoke, and so now all smokers are "idiots". In your mind, this is just one more in a long list of things which elevate you above the rest of humanity.
boymimbo
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November 10th, 2010 at 5:48:34 AM permalink
The thread is really about "should throwing cigarettes out of a car be ticketed as litter"? to which the answer is "absolutely".

Our minds are trained to immediately recognize and make evaluations about people based on first contact. We have been trained that smokers, in general, lead shorter lives and are much more subceptible to certain diseases. Studies show a lower education level. They pay higher life insurance rates, and have through legislation basically be forced to smoke at least 10 feet away from a door in a public building. It's tough to be a smoker.

So the first thing that comes to my mind when I see a smoker is "fool". Just like most people who don't gamble drive by a casino and attribute all of the people inside the casino as "idiots".

Both of my parents were smokers. My Dad had two hearts attacks in his 40s and my mother had early disease attributed to smoking. They subject my family to second hand smoke, putting me at a higher risk of diseases. They were great people, but when it came to smoking, they were idiots.

I'm an idiot too in certain ways... we all are.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
DrJohn
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November 10th, 2010 at 7:56:21 AM permalink
Would anyone be in favor of a "Butt Tax"? My idea is that similar to a deposit on bottles and cans, we would charge a 5 cent per cigarette deposit. (One dollar for a pack, 10 bucks for a carton). Bring back 20 butts, get your dollar back. Don't and forfeit your deposit. An additional benefit as I see it is that it could provide an income stream for transients as they could claim the deposit by picking up butts from the side of the road and turn them in for the reward. Excess revenue could be used for beautification projects.

Just thinkin'.

BTW I LOVE smokers. How can you not love job security!!!
AZDuffman
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November 10th, 2010 at 5:30:04 PM permalink
Quote: DrJohn

Would anyone be in favor of a "Butt Tax"? My idea is that similar to a deposit on bottles and cans, we would charge a 5 cent per cigarette deposit. (One dollar for a pack, 10 bucks for a carton). Bring back 20 butts, get your dollar back. Don't and forfeit your deposit. An additional benefit as I see it is that it could provide an income stream for transients as they could claim the deposit by picking up butts from the side of the road and turn them in for the reward. Excess revenue could be used for beautification projects.

Just thinkin'.

BTW I LOVE smokers. How can you not love job security!!!



WOW! I posted a rant on Facebook as well and my brother came up with the same idea of a butt tax/deposit. I'd say just let the tobacco companies keep the excess revenue being a small government guy. And as to the bums picking them up, I already have seen them pick up butts to get a pull or two off of them (BLEAH!) so why not let them earn?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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November 10th, 2010 at 5:45:00 PM permalink
Quote: jackblack21

Wizard, you should be ashamed. While not participating in the mud slinging in this thread your comments would indicate that you generally agree with those who have been. I don't think you would advocate making insulting comments about people based on other things like race, sex, or religion. Yet, with smokers it's somehow a different matter. You should be setting a higher standard.



Where did he sling any mud? He mentioned behavior and choices. While there have been some personal attacks here, that was not one of them.

The point of the thread is smokers ARE hurting others when they throw their butts out the window. And why do they throw them out the window? Even they admit they don't want butts stinking up their car.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Wizard
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November 10th, 2010 at 6:15:37 PM permalink
Quote: jackblack21

Wizard, you should be ashamed. While not participating in the mud slinging in this thread your comments would indicate that you generally agree with those who have been. I don't think you would advocate making insulting comments about people based on other things like race, sex, or religion. Yet, with smokers it's somehow a different matter. You should be setting a higher standard.



It is fine to challenge me on what I wrote, but don't make me defend any other comments I didn't endorse.

Quote: jackblack21

We've all called someone a dumbass for doing one thing or another, but that is said in jest - you guys are serious. I guess you would call race car drivers, firemen, or soldiers morons for engaging in life threatening activities. Yes I know, it's not the same thing, one guy smoking cigarettes and another risking taking a bullet in defense of his country. Perhaps gambling is a better analogy. Even if you play a +EV game your chances of losing money are high. So are all of us morons for gambling? It's like Mkl said, intelligent people do stupid things and vice versa.



I would never say one bad thing about firemen or soldiers, because they risk their lives for a good cause. I haven't seen statistics on race car drivers, but if the reward is worth the risk they take, then I would not have anything negative to say about it. However, I can't respect the decision to take up smoking. I have to be a little careful, because the two people who work for me, including webmaster JB, smoke. If anyone can show me how the pros of smoking outweigh the cons I' might reverse my opinion. Until then, I find smoking disgusting. When I was single I absolutely refused to even consider dating a smoker.

Quote: jackblack21

I don't know why I even bother to post this. When people have an ingrained mindset about something it's nearly impossible to get them to see otherwise. If you're raised to hate black people every time you see one your mind automatically says "nigger". You've been done wrong by women and now when you see one you say "whore". You've become a religious zealot, and now when you see someone not of your faith you think "heathen" or "infidel". Well, you guys have made the obvious intelligent decision not to smoke, and so now all smokers are "idiots". In your mind, this is just one more in a long list of things which elevate you above the rest of humanity.



As long as smokers don't inconvenience me, go ahead, I don't care. In fact, I should be thanking you, because you'll die sooner, and draw less money from Social Security and Medicare, leaving more for me. That is why I oppose taxes on cigarettes. However, smokers do inconvenience me. Every time I go into a casino I have to suffer their second hand smoke, which is killing me. I do appreciate those who try to have some courtesy, and step away from the table to smoke, or at least blow it away from the table. However, many don't. I also see their butts in piles in parking lots all the time, to say nothing of the title topic of throwing them out the window.

The way I see it, smokers are fighting vehemently for their right to kill me and other nonsmokers in casinos, so I have every right to have some animosity towards them as a group. I still can't forgive the outright lies and repugnant trickery they used in the prop 4 and 5 campaigns here in Nevada.

So there you have it. I look down on religious people too, by the way. Just read any thread on a religious topic for more on that.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EvenBob
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November 10th, 2010 at 6:49:02 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I also see their butts in piles in parking lots all the time, to say nothing of the title topic of throwing them out the window. .



I guess I'm not done with this topic. I see that all the time, where smokers empty their ashtrays right in the mall, shopping center, grocery store, you name it, parking lot. Its like their total disregard for their lungs and heart (and mine) also bleeds over to a disregard for the environment. I certainly don't see piles of garbage or dirty diapers or beer bottles in parking lots, its always just butts.

I see where congress is considering making cig makers put pics of people dying of lung cancer right on the packs. Bout time.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AZDuffman
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November 10th, 2010 at 7:11:39 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I see where congress is considering making cig makers put pics of people dying of lung cancer right on the packs. Bout time.

.

Saw that just today. Canada did that 10 years or so ago. The "example" pics on the news show our law is clearly based on theirs. Not sure how much I like it. I already have to look at ugly warning labels on the sunvisor when I buy a new car, we don't need any new ideas there.

OK, actually I painted over the labels on mine literally the day after I bought it. Still looks bad but not as bad. The pesky manufacturers make them so you cannot peel them off, like I did on a 1998 Malibu company car I bought--literally before I got out of it when I brought it home. If you cannot guess, I am sick of warning labels on everything we buy.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
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