michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
MDawg
May 8th, 2019 at 8:07:53 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

The homeless shaming of DarkOz is uncalled for and overplayed.

Maybe we can move on? Iím sure we canít.



The proper move in this case is to split off the homeless shaming of darkoz to its own thread.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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May 8th, 2019 at 10:43:22 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

I'm trying to figure out what leverage these drivers think they have and how they think this strike can benefit them.



The biggest leverage they have is in unity. The very nature of the job could give them more unity and leverage than usual. A major reason people drive for Uber is to set their own hours and take time off whenever they want. If I was a driver I would absolutely join the strike, because the benefits would far outweigh any negatives: I get a day to do something anything else I could want and there is a chance it could help raise wages. The only downside would be a loss of a few days pay, which I could easily make up some other way or simply go without.

Quote: MaxPen

Uber should prioritize the apps of those who stayed on during the shutdown in the coming months.



That could be crushing to them. Lawyers would be lined up ready to argue that prioritizing drivers who work the hours Uber wants them to work pushes them too close to employee instead of private contractor. The bigger problem is that it would destroy one of the biggest benefits for being a driver: working for someone who encourages you to work whenever you want. Take that away and they may as well drive a cab or do anything else that also offers health insurance and all the other stuff than comes from punching the clock on someone else's schedule. The only drivers left would be the people who couldn't get hired for any other job
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 9th, 2019 at 2:34:02 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

it's now what I do in my trading



there are a few hedge funds that have done very well

and there are quite a few that have gotten creamed and gone out of business

the individual trader can't get the same deal as the hedge fund manager funneling millions in and out every week

he's going to get beat on the bid and ask - badly - compared to the big money managers



Not a hedge fund, a hedge. Risk management.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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May 9th, 2019 at 2:40:27 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

The biggest leverage they have is in unity. The very nature of the job could give them more unity and leverage than usual. A major reason people drive for Uber is to set their own hours and take time off whenever they want. If I was a driver I would absolutely join the strike, because the benefits would far outweigh any negatives: I get a day to do something anything else I could want and there is a chance it could help raise wages. The only downside would be a loss of a few days pay, which I could easily make up some other way or simply go without.



That could be crushing to them. Lawyers would be lined up ready to argue that prioritizing drivers who work the hours Uber wants them to work pushes them too close to employee instead of private contractor. The bigger problem is that it would destroy one of the biggest benefits for being a driver: working for someone who encourages you to work whenever you want. Take that away and they may as well drive a cab or do anything else that also offers health insurance and all the other stuff than comes from punching the clock on someone else's schedule. The only drivers left would be the people who couldn't get hired for any other job


Alternatively, I'd think Uber could reward those who did not go on strike in one way or another, like top priority / queue skip.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 9th, 2019 at 2:42:25 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Hedge against Uber going down? So making bets that do well if Uber goes up and are hurt when Uber goes down? Why not just skip those bets and win big when it implodes?



The problem is you can lose big waiting for the implosion. So much cheap money sloshing around silicon valley, funding bad ideas. Look at TSLA. Going to issue more stock and bonds to meet cash needs. Their burn rate has finally caught up with them. Closed most of their stores, layoffs, now chasing new funding. TSLA is not only crazy overvalued, it is what, 10 years in the red, a quarter or two not withstanding? No sane person would buy an auto dealership for the kind of multiple they sell for. Yet they are still around. And yes, I know it is the most shorted stock and many shorts have won big. But you need a big wallet to pay to borrow that stock.

UBER will be similar. Simple idea, leading name. It could take years. So you:

Short the stock
Sell puts below, because you WANT the below puts to be exercised.
Buy more calls than puts with the put premium. So if idiots drive the price high you make out
Put the money to work for you. A utility fund will make 7-10% per year most years with dividends.

And I know I am breaking the "thou shall not hedge" commandment. I do not accept that one.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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May 9th, 2019 at 4:05:10 AM permalink
Nothing wrong with a strike. Doesn't mean it's always a good idea.

Is there some reason the business model for the Uber worker would get better over the years? I can't think of any. Too easy for too many people to get into. Why would it not get overplayed? If you're lean and mean, you can probably continually make money at it. How much though?
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 219
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May 9th, 2019 at 4:33:02 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Nothing wrong with a strike. Doesn't mean it's always a good idea.

Is there some reason the business model for the Uber worker would get better over the years? I can't think of any. Too easy for too many people to get into. Why would it not get overplayed? If you're lean and mean, you can probably continually make money at it. How much though?



The business model probably is not all that bad. Prices will have to rise over time and it will all level out. The popularity is there for both driver and passenger. Maybe we eventually see manufacturers make cars more suited to UBER. Four-door models with a more taxicab-basic interior, etc. Same as they once had "business coupes" for traveling salesmen.

UBER is IMHO doing a bad thing with this self-driving experiment. Why take on all the capital and labor expenses of having your own fleet of vehicles?

The advantage of UBER is that it is everywhere. That is a high barrier to competitor entry. If I go on vacation I can use my UBER app and have assurance that the driver has been vetted by UBER. While this is not perfect, think of it like McDonald's. McDonald's was never the best burger, but on the road, tired, not in the mood to experiment, stop at the golden arches. In a strange city, do you chance it? Do you want to take the time to find the local ride-share operator after a long flight? I don't.

At the moment it is a pricing problem. Similar to McDonald's early days, the cut is not enough to cover the costs. Maybe UBER needs to rent the UBER Black cars to the drivers, and you only get that rating if you lease it from UBER. A $100 "sandwich" profit could be the difference? Maybe, maybe not. As it is it will not make it.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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May 9th, 2019 at 5:39:11 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Alternatively, I'd think Uber could reward those who did not go on strike in one way or another, like top priority / queue skip.



They could do that and there is a chance they might. The benefits for rewarding them out of loyalty are pretty small. Doing that would necessitate de-prioritizing the ones who took those few days off. The drawbacks to punishing them out of pettiness are much greater.

Uber would be fine to prioritize their best drivers. That should be determined by profits over a long time period. Not loyalty over one weekend. In business, it is always a problem to loyalty in close proximity to profits. This isn't dating.

I am always in favor of striking. The reason it is so rare is both sides are so scared by it. Labor because they are far too dependent on their jobs. Management because they make their workers far too irreplaceable.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 9th, 2019 at 6:48:38 AM permalink
Well, we just used Uber for a messenger shipping service.

Arrived at airport for spring fling trip. The 13 yr old granddaughter couldnt come today due to a sudden commitment (tickets to a concert but to a 13 yr old that a commitment)

So we booked her a flight alone tomorrow

Mom always carries her daughter's passport so guess where it is when we arrive this morning at airport. In her moms purse.

No way we were gonna make it back home and to the airport for our flight.

Great idea. We had an Uber come, pu the passport and deliver it to my granddaughter.

Yippee!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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May 9th, 2019 at 7:02:48 AM permalink
Quote: Face

I can almost taste the heroin in this post =)



Mitch Hedburg was an enigma for sure
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous

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