ahiromu
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beachbumbabs
December 11th, 2018 at 10:05:32 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

how would you get enough water on the moon to support a whole city?



Perfect recycling technology will be necessary for any sustained space mission like that. My information is a few years old, but I don't think this is the toughest technological hurdle for us.

There is no definitively profitable reason to have a permanent presence on the moon yet. Yes, mining in a lower gravity well and a staging point for the rest of the solar system are reasons, among others, but we aren't there yet. It's still prohibitively expensive to get things into orbit and even more expensive to make the vacuum of space somewhat livable. We still don't have an answer for long term radiation exposure.

We haven't been back because there's no tangible reason to put another set of feet on a desolate body 300k miles away when we can do a bunch of unmanned missions for the same price. Anyone that denies the moon landing is almost as stupid as a flat earther and disrespecting every single person involved with the Apollo missions.
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beachbumbabs
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December 11th, 2018 at 7:51:14 PM permalink
Just a couple of thoughts about the responses.

I think, re: radiation, people would have to live IN the moon rather than on it. Blow out a lot of caverns and tunnels, and limit their exposure to the surface.

Re: water, we breathe out, sweat, and pee water. That would have to be reclaimed, and the wastes mulched into the farm tunnels, along with solid waste, dead bodies, and whatever else will provide minerals, nutrients, water, and fertilizer.

Water could be gotten there by steering ice-covered comets/asteroids to near-orbit or even into the farside. It only has to be lifted once, even if it comes from Earth, because it can be endlessly cleansed and reused. They'd just have to protect it from boiling off into a vacuum.

It's also possible there is ancient ice below the surface. There is a theory that the moon did, at one time, have an atmosphere and oceans. If you look at the craters and stressor lines, it appears the moon might have been hit by a massive asteroid, that could have blown the atmosphere from the surface (if there was an atmosphere - nobody knows, but it is in the temperate zone that could have had one.)

So, if there was an atmosphere, it might have had oceans. Which may mean there is water frozen deep beneath the surface. Again, nobody yet knows. That's part of why it's so interesting that the Chinese will land a probe on the farside soon. They may find a way to sample the inner mantle and learn a lot.

And I'm not sure why they're going to send men to Mars without learning how to sustain a colony on the moon. Maybe I just don't know enough about Mars, but at least if something goes wrong on the moon, it's 3 days away, not 8 months or whatever in our respective orbits.

Obviously I didn't go to the moon, but I did see several of the launches. They happened, and there's no question in my mind that they went there, not around the corner to some soundstage. I don't even know.where that conspiracy theory started.
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ChesterDog
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December 11th, 2018 at 8:11:56 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

...That's part of why it's so interesting that the Chinese will land a probe on the farside soon. They may find a way to sample the inner mantle and learn a lot...




I heard a comment that the only way to get US politicians to invest again in moon landings is for us to be talking about China's moon projects, and hint at China's military uses for the moon.
RogerKint
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December 11th, 2018 at 10:12:06 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu


We haven't been back because there's no tangible reason to put another set of feet on a desolate body 300k miles away when we can do a bunch of unmanned missions for the same price. Anyone that denies the moon landing is almost as stupid as a flat earther and disrespecting every single person involved with the Apollo missions.



Yes, let's talk about radiation. *sits down at the wrong table in the HS cafeteria*

This NASA spokesman must be almost as stupid as a flat earther. Maybe the exceedingly brilliant men and women of this thread (i mean that sincerely) can educate NASA engineers on how to sail humans harmlessly through the Van Ellen radiation belts. Again, this is like modern-day Spanish and Portuguese still trying to figure out how Columbus traveled to the New World given that there's a giant ocean in the way.

#defundNASA
#ripGusGrissom

Last edited by: RogerKint on Dec 11, 2018
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RogerKint
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December 11th, 2018 at 10:29:44 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

I heard a comment that the only way to get US politicians to invest again in moon landings is for us to be talking about China's moon projects, and hint at China's military uses for the moon.



.gov using scare tactics to fund its programs? Preposterous! Then again, those pesky Chinese could be hiding weapons of mass destruction on the moon.
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beachbumbabs
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December 12th, 2018 at 1:46:40 AM permalink
Arstechnica printed one today about exactly that, and it was more than a hint.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/science/2018/12/china-just-launched-a-far-side-moon-lander-and-thats-pretty-important/%3famp=1

Also, NASA answered back to Steph:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25508943/nasa-offers-show-proof-moon-landing-golden-state-warriors-star-stephen-curry?platform=amp
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lilredrooster
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December 12th, 2018 at 1:51:52 AM permalink
the temperature on the moon swings from about 260 degrees Farenheit to about minus 280 degrees Farenheit

about 13.5 days of daytime and then 13.5 days of nighttime

can't be real easy to deal with

need to plan what time you take your walk real carefully
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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December 12th, 2018 at 2:03:08 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

the temperature on the moon swings from about 260 degrees Farenheit to about minus 280 degrees Farenheit

about 13.5 days of daytime and then 13.5 days of nighttime

can't be real easy to deal with

need to plan what time you take your walk real carefully



True. But it's extremely predictable, and we've solved similar problems to some extent in the ISS and Shuttle programs. Those predictable conditions could even be an asset, with supercool and superhot processes making purer crystals, chips, or other materials without having to create the energy needed on earth to reach those temperatures.

I don't think life on the surface is possible, though, and that's part of why. It would have to be inside, with shielded and airtight access to the surface. All compartments and airlocks, some inner domes, a warren of tunnels. But nearly unlimited power available to shape the environment. Lots of silicate to make thick glass. Not much iron (or there would be magnetic fields) for steel, but other metals in the crust (aluminum? Seems like I read that somewhere, that there was bauxite.) Could be used. Just gotta find the water somewhere, and the rest can be done with today's technology.

Does anybody know the physical properties of compressed hydrogen or LOX? I know water doesn't compress, but those do - if you ship the elements compressed, do you somehow end up with a larger volume of water than the gases represent as components, once they're recombined?
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RogerKint
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December 12th, 2018 at 2:06:19 AM permalink
Will Curry be able to take those so-called moon rocks to have them analyzed? Shouldn't science be tested and re tested? Wouldn't it be super sciency to not take things by faith but rather question things?

When government-sponsored religion is presented to the masses as "science", people will believe all sorts of ridiculousness.
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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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December 12th, 2018 at 2:10:56 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Will Curry be able to take those so-called moon rocks to have them analyzed?

When government-sponsored religion is presented to the masses as "science", people will believe all sorts of ridiculousness.



I think it's a federal crime for anyone to mess with the moon rocks. I could be wrong.

I don't know who he would trust to analyze them, anyway. If he already thinks it's a fake, isn't it easier to claim any scientist or testing lab is in on the conspiracy, than to admit he was wrong?
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