Poll

2 votes (15.38%)
3 votes (23.07%)
2 votes (15.38%)
2 votes (15.38%)
1 vote (7.69%)
1 vote (7.69%)
2 votes (15.38%)
4 votes (30.76%)

13 members have voted

MrV
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petroglyph
December 1st, 2018 at 6:50:52 PM permalink
So Bush died.

Personally I never liked the guy.

He seemed smug, superior, elitist, remote and only interested in the patrician class.

While I'm not glad he's dead, I won't shed a tear for his legacy.

The damned fool got us mired in the middle east: bah!
"What, me worry?"
Nathan
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December 1st, 2018 at 7:17:29 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

So Bush died.

Personally I never liked the guy.

He seemed smug, superior, elitist, remote and only interested in the patrician class.

While I'm not glad he's dead, I won't shed a tear for his legacy.

The damned fool got us mired in the middle east: bah!



I feel sorry for George W and Jeb Bush. It's beyond heartbreaking sad that they lost both parents in the same year .. :(
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
billryan
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December 1st, 2018 at 8:32:06 PM permalink
I think history will judge him well. He was the leader of the free world when the Berlin Wall fell. When Germany reunited and the evil Soviet Empire fell.
Rest in peace.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachbumbabs
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December 1st, 2018 at 9:09:33 PM permalink
I was sad when he sold out his own platform as a moderate to be Reagan's VP. He had to buy into two things specifically he was opposed to, anti-abortion stance and supply-side economics, and he did. So I do hold those two against him. But otherwise, he was a very good President.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Wizard
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December 1st, 2018 at 9:44:15 PM permalink
There is a discussion at DT about GHWB, where I gave my thoughts already.

Briefly, I think he was an average president. Of the six Republican presidents in my lifetime, I'd rank him 4th. Personally, I don't feel any strong connection. The best thing I can say is he never made any big mistakes. He was very prudent. I have nothing against prudence, but it isn't exciting. That is probably what women say about me. I'll shut up now.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
bobbartop
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December 2nd, 2018 at 5:32:27 AM permalink
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
TomG
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December 2nd, 2018 at 3:15:54 PM permalink
A great American who died far too young
onenickelmiracle
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December 2nd, 2018 at 7:25:10 PM permalink
I remember when he had his state of the union after desert shield, he stuttered/was interrupted when saying "...in aid of this small country" but it sounded like "in aid of this small c#nt". You would probably have to get an original recording of it to hear it, this kind of thing gets edited out and corrected later on.
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MaxPen
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December 2nd, 2018 at 10:22:40 PM permalink
He represented the deep end of the deepest state. Thank goodness, Donald Trump put the grandson out of business. I wonder how he will be judged by his maker? He always knew what the people would do if they were to judge him on real facts.
lildevilLucy
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December 2nd, 2018 at 11:00:31 PM permalink
"18 hit me, 19 hit me, 20 hit me, 21 hit me" - homer simpson
beachbumbabs
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December 3rd, 2018 at 5:30:25 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

He represented the deep end of the deepest state. Thank goodness, Donald Trump put the grandson out of business. I wonder how he will be judged by his maker? He always knew what the people would do if they were to judge him on real facts.



I guess you don't understand the true calling to service when you see it. GHWB was about this country, not himself. He served from his 18th birthday onward. He used his born-to-it privilege to serve othera especially the people of this country.

Trump has no comprehension of any of this. He took his born-to-it position to bully, demean, and use everyone he ever met, from his teen years to today. He's truly a disgusting, prime example of capitalistic greed and excess. And no, I'm not a socialist.

I'll take a hundred GWHB Presidents in a row over 1 Trump. I was happy to vote for him then, happy to celebrate his life and service now.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
billryan
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December 3rd, 2018 at 10:27:48 AM permalink
During WW2, President Bush served as a pilot in the Pacific. He was one of nine aviators who survived their planes being shot down off the coast of a small island.
His eight compadres were captured, tortured, executed and eaten by their captives. That's correct, I said eaten. The Japanese Commander had some bizarre cult like command over his men and serving them meat taken from their enemies was a vital part of it.
Our future President survives ditching his plane in the China Sea, but Japanese patrol boats spot the smoke from the crash and head to the scene. A single American fighter remains overhead, machine gunning the Japanese boats to keep them away from the small life raft but it is low on both ammo and fuel. A rescue ship has been dispatched but is an hour a way when an American submarine, secretly operating off the island breaks its deep cover to rescue the pilot. There is a military film crew on board that captures the rescue. The footage comes in handy during his political career.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
SOOPOO
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beachbumbabsFinsRule
December 3rd, 2018 at 10:39:14 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

I feel sorry for George W and Jeb Bush. It's beyond heartbreaking sad that they lost both parents in the same year .. :(



I cannot disagree more. GW and Jeb both must be proud of the long successful lives their parents lived, but understand the natural course of life ends with death. You can feel sorry for anyone when their parents pass, but to use the term 'beyond heartbreaking' is just your need to type something.
beachbumbabs
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December 3rd, 2018 at 1:39:31 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I cannot disagree more. GW and Jeb both must be proud of the long successful lives their parents lived, but understand the natural course of life ends with death. You can feel sorry for anyone when their parents pass, but to use the term 'beyond heartbreaking' is just your need to type something.



I have to agree with you, SOOPOO. Could any man or woman ask for a more fulfilling, more rewarding, longer life than either of them had? There is only celebration possible at this point, of his many accomplishments, their great love story, the impact they both had on generations of Americans, flawed or inspiring.

The Bush children were very lucky to have both their parents into their 60s. Hardly anyone gets that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FinsRule
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December 3rd, 2018 at 2:36:53 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I cannot disagree more. GW and Jeb both must be proud of the long successful lives their parents lived, but understand the natural course of life ends with death. You can feel sorry for anyone when their parents pass, but to use the term 'beyond heartbreaking' is just your need to type something.



Thanks for typing out what I was too lazy to do.
Wizard
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December 3rd, 2018 at 2:42:59 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I cannot disagree more. GW and Jeb both must be proud of the long successful lives their parents lived, but understand the natural course of life ends with death. You can feel sorry for anyone when their parents pass, but to use the term 'beyond heartbreaking' is just your need to type something.



Amen to that as well. GHWB made it to 94 and his wife about the same. From that birth cohort, only about 6% of men and 13% of women live that long. Plus, they didn't die of anything slow and painful. If I were one of their kids, I would be thankful they lived as long and as well as they did. We should hope to be so fortunate.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
SOOPOO
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December 3rd, 2018 at 3:11:41 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Thanks for typing out what I was too lazy to do.



YW Fins. I think I've wanted to type something many times but eventually just found someone else said it better than I could and click on the 'like' function.

I have a phrase I use, and I like to think I made it up. (It's possible I heard it and stole it from someone, but I hope not!)

"The only important thing in life is that you attend your parent's funerals, and that your kids attend yours."
JohnnyQ
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December 3rd, 2018 at 4:55:32 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I guess you don't understand the true calling to service when you see it. GHWB was about this country, not himself. He served from his 18th birthday onward. He used his born-to-it privilege to serve othera especially the people of this country.

Well said, I agree 100 %.

I did not vote him. But I respect him as a good president and good person.
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
Greasyjohn
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December 3rd, 2018 at 7:00:46 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

During WW2, President Bush served as a pilot in the Pacific. He was one of nine aviators who survived their planes being shot down off the coast of a small island.
His eight compadres were captured, tortured, executed and eaten by their captives. That's correct, I said eaten. The Japanese Commander had some bizarre cult like command over his men and serving them meat taken from their enemies was a vital part of it.
Our future President survives ditching his plane in the China Sea, but Japanese patrol boats spot the smoke from the crash and head to the scene. A single American fighter remains overhead, machine gunning the Japanese boats to keep them away from the small life raft but it is low on both ammo and fuel. A rescue ship has been dispatched but is an hour a way when an American submarine, secretly operating off the island breaks its deep cover to rescue the pilot. There is a military film crew on board that captures the rescue. The footage comes in handy during his political career.



There was a book written about the nine aviators and their ordeal off the island of Chichi Jima (near Iwo Jima and during the same campaign to take that island). The book is Flyboys written by James Bradley. At the time of the books publishing it was thought that the author's father, John Bradley, was one of the famous group that raised the flag on Iwo Jima. Since then, it was found to be not the case, and John Bradley apparently lived with that knowledge. The whole story of the 5 flag raisers is very interesting. And as far as John Bradley's misidentification and his not acknowledging the truth... well it might have been the military that didn't want to correct the original misidentification because the sorting out of the details sullied the story.
Last edited by: Greasyjohn on Dec 3, 2018
Ayecarumba
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December 3rd, 2018 at 9:05:57 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

There was a book written about the nine aviators and their ordeal off the island of Chichi Jima (near Iwo Jima and during the same campaign to take that island). The book is Flyboys written by James Bradley. At the time of the books publishing it was thought that the author's father, John Bradley, was one of the famous group that raised the flag on Iwo Jima. Since then, it was found to be not the cases, and John Bradley apparently lived with that knowledge. The whole story of the 5 flag raisers is very interesting. And as far as John Bradley's misidentification and his not acknowledging the truth... well it might have been the military that didn't want to correct the original misidentification because the sorting out of the details sullied the story.



It was decades before the “staging” of the famous photo of the flag raising on Iwo Jima came to light. There was a huge statue made in its likeness, all under the impression that the photo captured the actual event. So misidentification of the parties involved is not a surprise.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Greasyjohn
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December 3rd, 2018 at 11:41:32 PM permalink
George H.W. Bush was the oldest lived president. If Carter lives another 3 months and 15 days he will be the oldest lived president.
AcesAndEights
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December 4th, 2018 at 8:42:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

There is a discussion at DT about GHWB, where I gave my thoughts already.

Briefly, I think he was an average president. Of the six Republican presidents in my lifetime, I'd rank him 4th. Personally, I don't feel any strong connection. The best thing I can say is he never made any big mistakes. He was very prudent. I have nothing against prudence, but it isn't exciting. That is probably what women say about me. I'll shut up now.


Surely a reference to this?!
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Wizard
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December 4th, 2018 at 10:50:42 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Surely a reference to this?!



Yes, it may be Dana Carvey's impression that sticks in my mind. He seemed to work the word "prudent" into every sketch. However, it is the perfect word to describe GHWB. I wish we had more prudence right now in the White House.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GWAE
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December 4th, 2018 at 1:13:33 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

George H.W. Bush was the oldest lived president. If Carter lives another 3 months and 15 days he will be the oldest lived president.



Lol I didnt even know Carter was still alive. He must really live quietly since he is never seen or talked about.
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RonC
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December 4th, 2018 at 2:31:37 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Lol I didnt even know Carter was still alive. He must really live quietly since he is never seen or talked about.



Presidents once pretty much went away after the term and stayed out of politics. While Jimmy ventures into the political arena with a statement every now and then, as have others, he is not looking for the spotlight like President Clinton and President Obama. He has done a hell of a lot of humanitarian work since leaving the White House. He has had a long and honorable post-Presidency.

In case any one cares, I think Trump is more likely to fall in the mold of Clinton and Obama post-Presidency based on his desire to maintain the spotlight.
Last edited by: RonC on Dec 4, 2018
Wizard
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December 4th, 2018 at 3:38:52 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Lol I didnt even know Carter was still alive. He must really live quietly since he is never seen or talked about.



About a year ago he was in the news for beating cancer. I think he attributed it to a miracle. Someone (Paco) correct me if I'm wrong.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
beachbumbabs
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December 4th, 2018 at 4:45:36 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Lol I didnt even know Carter was still alive. He must really live quietly since he is never seen or talked about.



Depends on your news feed. He took several trips as a special ambassador post-presidency. He shows up in ads for Habitat for humanity quite often, and still goes and hammers framework together. And he allowed himself to be quite critical of Trump several times.

He also does a lot of writing.

I think in contrast, I only recall him criticizing Obama once publicly, and none about any others who followed him.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
TomG
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December 4th, 2018 at 8:41:47 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

He represented the deep end of the deepest state. Thank goodness, Donald Trump put the grandson out of business. I wonder how he will be judged by his maker? He always knew what the people would do if they were to judge him on real facts.



Accepted definition of "deep state" is: “a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States

Bush was elected to spend 12 years in the White House. There has never been greater consent given to anyone through the most formal political process in our lifetimes.

Of course I'm sure there is a contingency of Americans who would argue that wikipedia is a creation of the "deep state" and the real definition is whatever the voices in their heads tell them it is
RonC
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December 5th, 2018 at 2:51:07 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Depends on your news feed. He took several trips as a special ambassador post-presidency. He shows up in ads for Habitat for humanity quite often, and still goes and hammers framework together. And he allowed himself to be quite critical of Trump several times.

He also does a lot of writing.

I think in contrast, I only recall him criticizing Obama once publicly, and none about any others who followed him.



I did not (and still do not) agree with President Carter politically, but I give him credit for pretty much avoiding trying to remain a celebrity much as past Presidents have up until the Clinton and Obama post-Presidencies. Yes, the Bush family and Carter have had a few things to say along the way about the current President and maybe a few things about the immediate past President, but nothing at all like the the other two.

I know they all make speeches and do appearances, but Carter has been a past President for almost 38 years...for that amount of time, his name has not been involved in politics all that much. In the years since his Presidency, I have come to respect him more as a person for his charitable activities.
MrV
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December 5th, 2018 at 9:35:46 AM permalink
I for one wish that the federal government would end the "national day of mourning" when a president dies.

Life goes on.
"What, me worry?"
RonC
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December 5th, 2018 at 10:38:09 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

I for one wish that the federal government would end the "national day of mourning" when a president dies.

Life goes on.



I have no problem with them. Unlike holidays like Memorial Day, when many people forget there is even a reason for the long weekend, these very few days during the course of our lives help us focus on our great country.

Life does go on...but there is also an importance to remembering why we have the chance to live as we do. It isn't just about the person.
AcesAndEights
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December 5th, 2018 at 10:48:38 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

I for one wish that the federal government would end the "national day of mourning" when a president dies.

Life goes on.


Yeah I was going to check for tax loss harvesting opportunities today. Markets closed :(
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Wizard
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December 5th, 2018 at 3:41:40 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I for one wish that the federal government would end the "national day of mourning" when a president dies.



Every federal worker would disagree with you. I enjoyed my day of mourning for Nixon.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
ThatDonGuy
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December 5th, 2018 at 3:58:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Every federal worker would disagree with you. I enjoyed my day of mourning for Nixon.


And I enjoyed today off. However, it does have its downside - the post offices are closed, so if you had something in the mail, that's an extra day for it to get there.

Not quite as bad as the "three days in a row closed" caused by Ford's funeral in 2007, though (Sunday, New Year's Day, Ford memorial day). I don't remember that ever happening before, except during a postal strike.
beachbumbabs
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December 5th, 2018 at 4:16:25 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Every federal worker would disagree with you. I enjoyed my day of mourning for Nixon.



I didn't get any days of mourning off - would have been Reagan, Nixon, Ford . We got holiday pay instead, but only if we actually worked the day.

And USPS delivered my Amazon package today, some towel bars, as scheduled last week. So not all Post Office employees got the day, either.

All FWIW.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Ayecarumba
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December 5th, 2018 at 4:37:33 PM permalink
Did the air traffic controllers raise a toast to Reagan? Maybe, since most of them probably got their jobs after he kicked out the old guard for striking.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
MrV
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December 5th, 2018 at 5:20:17 PM permalink
How many federal employees spent all day "mourning" him?

Not many, I'd bet.

Yeah, and here I am paying their salary so they can stay at home doing heaven knows what; instead they should be tearing their hair out while uttering woeful cries of lament and sorrow.

We already have a Presidents Day set aside to remember former presidents: that's more than enough.

Bah, humbug.

Oh well, sometimes funerals can rock. .
"What, me worry?"
Sandybestdog
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December 5th, 2018 at 5:48:09 PM permalink
It was nice to see the media talk so positively about him. Where you would traditionally expect the media to cast him in a negative light, there has been pretty much only good things said about him. I think this was the media’s attempt to recreate what happened with McCain in order to make Trump look bad. It didn’t work though.
beachbumbabs
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December 5th, 2018 at 10:22:50 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Did the air traffic controllers raise a toast to Reagan? Maybe, since most of them probably got their jobs after he kicked out the old guard for striking.



No. In fact, to this day, we call DCA Washington National.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RonC
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December 6th, 2018 at 1:48:10 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

No. In fact, to this day, we call DCA Washington National.



While that may be intended as a slight, I have pretty much always referred to the three area airports as BWI, National, and Dulles. I never use "Marshall" or "Reagan" but will slip in "Friendship" sometimes...

In Houston, it is Bush or Hobby. McCarron? I never use that either. Vegas or Las Vegas is where we take a flight to; the airport is where we go to return.
billryan
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December 6th, 2018 at 2:10:46 PM permalink
What the heck were they playing as they removed the coffin from the train?. It seemed pretty inappropriate. It seemed like an original piece interlaced with some 1940s swing. At one point, the refrain of " hot time in the old town tonight." was obvious.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachbumbabs
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December 7th, 2018 at 6:13:10 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

What the heck were they playing as they removed the coffin from the train?. It seemed pretty inappropriate. It seemed like an original piece interlaced with some 1940s swing. At one point, the refrain of " hot time in the old town tonight." was obvious.



Our best guess was the Aggie fight song. But we didn't recognize it either.

I have to assume the Bush family gave them a playlist, and those were some of his favorite happy tunes. Which means stuff popular in or before the 40s, with him being 94, probably.

I also got the "hot time in the old town tonight" refrain. I thought it was kind of ironic as it made me think of hell. But for all we know, it was his and Bar's favorite tune from when they were dating.

Edit: Yeah, I found a reference in several stories prior to the event. It was planned, and it was the Texas A&M band playing the Aggie War Hymn (after Ruffles and Flourishes, aka Hail to the Chief).

Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Dec 7, 2018
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RonC
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December 7th, 2018 at 7:17:07 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

What the heck were they playing as they removed the coffin from the train?. It seemed pretty inappropriate. It seemed like an original piece interlaced with some 1940s swing. At one point, the refrain of " hot time in the old town tonight." was obvious.



It was the "Aggie War Hymn" and it was totally appropriate based on his arrival at Texas A&M and his wishes. Each President is intimately involved in the arrangement of their own funeral. The President and those closest to him make these plans; Presidents start to plan these events early in their Presidency and modify them along the way.

"Ruffles and Flourishes" is part of rendering honors to distinguished persons. That is the fanfare before the designated music is played.

"Ruffles and Flourishes - Ruffles are played on drums and flourishes on bugles. They are sounded together, once for each star of the general officer being honored or according to the title or office held. Four ruffles and flourishes are the highest honor and are played for presidents."

“Hail to the Chief” - Traditional musical honors played for the president and former presidents of the United States.

https://www.usstatefuneral.mdw.army.mil/about-state-funerals/military-honors-for-former-presidents

Here is one protocol list for anyone interested: http://airforcewives.com/index.php/protocol-mainmenu-264/army-protocol-mainmenu-286/112-protocol/air-force-protocol/1111-table-of-honors-19-20
billryan
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December 7th, 2018 at 8:03:46 AM permalink
Seeing as 99 percent of the viewing audience probably has no idea what an aggie is, you can understand the confusion.
You go from the solemn Flourish into a bolero, with riffs from popular music and you are going to get some head scratching.
It's a pretty cool song. I'd never heard it before, but listened to it via Alexa after the funeral. It was very strange watching the flag draped casket and hearing "it's a hot time in the old town tonight".

Was there an explanation for why they used a truck at the airport instead of a hearse?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
RonC
RonC
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December 7th, 2018 at 9:00:18 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Was there an explanation for why they used a truck at the airport instead of a hearse?



I saw the truck used for loading to and unloading from the cabin of the aircraft, but not for movement of the casket other than that...but I did not watch every second of the proceedings.
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