Ayecarumba
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November 12th, 2018 at 7:08:47 PM permalink
Just saw a news piece about a Las Vegas Air Traffic Controller who was slurring, creating a potentially hazardous situation.

I’m surprised she was alone in the tower for 40 minutes before the second guy came back from a break. Is this common?
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Wizard
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November 12th, 2018 at 8:00:13 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Just saw a news piece about a Las Vegas Air Traffic Controller who was slurring, creating a potentially hazardous situation.



I had the same reaction, how is it possible to have just one controller managing the air traffic for that whole airport, which I think gets a landing every few minutes.

Once I went into the tower at the Santa Barbara airport, which gets about one flight an hour, and there were several people in the control room.
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FleaStiff
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November 12th, 2018 at 8:29:44 PM permalink
probably only one at that station.... ground control, approach control... ?
beachbumbabs
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November 12th, 2018 at 9:32:49 PM permalink
It was not unusual for one person to be working alone in the tower. I used to do it for 7+ hours a night, once a week, at Portland Intl in Oregon. There was also one other person staffing the radar room.

Other places, too, but that was the largest air carrier airport I worked. Pretty standard as traffic falls off late evening until pre-dawn, with a few exceptions. Mostly cargo hubs like Louisville or Memphis, which run full crews on the midshift. Charleston SC, (CHS), was 1 person with not just tower but 1/3 of the state of SC radar approach all on 1 person, about 12 small airports, for about 7 hours every night.

I was surprised McCarran did it at all, though, because they have a pretty sizable redeye push. But I don't think she was supposed to be alone for as long as she was. When I retired, standard had grown to 2 people except for a short break here and there, usually 15-20 minutes.

It had been 1 for decades, but then they had that controller fall asleep on position at DCA (Washington National), and the FAA made 2 mandatory. Now they seem to have upped requirements again with this event.

She would have had clearance delivery (which is largely automated now) combined with Ground Control (movement on taxiways and ramps) combined with Local Control (runway arrival and departures). Not a huge load if ita routine stuff, but sizable, and not advisable, even without whatever her problem was, at an hourly rate of roughly 50 operations.

It must have been a gross violation for them to have fired her so quickly, though. My first reaction, hearing about this a couple days ago, was some kind of fumes from cleaning solvents or maintenance in the cab overcame her gradually. Wouldn't be the first time that happened by a long way.

But there was something very wrong (like maybe drugs) if they could fire her this fast. The person who took his break, if she was showing any evidence of impairment before he left the cab, may also be lined up for discipline, especially since his break went on so long. As may the supervisor who scheduled it. Lots of details we'll never hear, I think, though I have a couple friends there and I may hear more.

Edit: "something very wrong" could include non-drug causes, and it's not really fair of me to speculate. She could have been having problems for some time, say with narcolepsy, and this was the last straw. She would have been tested for drugs and alcohol immediately when this happened, and could have failed or refused the test. She could have been eligible to retire and just said screw it, either scared herself into leaving, or took the easy way out of the fuss. IDK yet.
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MaxPen
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November 13th, 2018 at 1:10:29 AM permalink
No one is saying what the cause is. I wonder if she was having a stroke. In no way should there only be one controller in the tower ever. I can't believe anyone could find that acceptable.
FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 1:37:54 AM permalink
she has not been fired
there was no panic button to summon aid or an other controller back from a break
Several planes on ground used cell phones to dial 911 but no response for at least 20 minutes
While an adverse reaction to meds is possible it sounds more like a 'stroke/tia' incident with progressive inability to operate push to talk mechanism and to control throat muscles.
male voice 'are you okay' was controller returning to room without having been summoned or alerted.

It seems 911 considered it an FAA matter and did not send ambulance or police car but this can not be confirmed.
FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 2:18:44 AM permalink
Her second class medical has been suspended but she has not been fired.

No indication yet of how many calls to 911 were made or what official disposition was but it seems nothing happened despite several crews in planes on ground using cell phones.
MidwestAP
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November 13th, 2018 at 5:35:59 AM permalink
This identifies it as a stoke, but don't know if that is accurate or not. You can clearly hear her ability to effectively communicate decrease as time goes on.

VAS Aviation channel on YouTube
FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 6:04:01 AM permalink
I am surprised at the generalized grumbling but no one taking clear and effective action to announce tower communications are unreliable and that medical assistance is probably needed there.
beachbumbabs
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November 13th, 2018 at 7:31:23 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I am surprised at the generalized grumbling but no one taking clear and effective action to announce tower communications are unreliable and that medical assistance is probably needed there.



The strangest part of it is definitely 40 MINUTES without intervention. That's an eternity. For no pilot to say something to Vegas Approach/Departure (the fastest way to have gotten help) is just bizarre. 911 couldn't help? More bizarre. Every tower cab has a red phone direct to EMS. Rings both ways. Tested daily. 911 dispatch has a direct hookup to it.
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FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 7:46:32 AM permalink
Agreed.
No need to switch to an emergency frequency... just blurt out a warning 'tower communications are unreliable, situation unknown'.
No direct phone line will bring help if no one uses it.
All this grumbling on the various frequencies and in cockpits but no one really DOES anything.

attn: All Las Vegas Traffic: Tower communications are unreliable. situation and duration unknown"
Could have saved a lot of time and brought help to her earlier.
I think 911 dispatcher thought it an FAA staffing problem rather than 'adult in need of medical attention' and 'critical safety to the public' issue.
DRich
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November 13th, 2018 at 8:30:33 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

More bizarre. Every tower cab has a red phone direct to EMS. Rings both ways. Tested daily. 911 dispatch has a direct hookup to it.



I have been around numerous people who are having strokes and not a single one of them knew what was going on. With that in mind I wouldn't expect the controller to call EMS. A good friend has had numerous strokes and still doesn't realize what is happening in the moment. Clearly if the person was self medicating, they wouldn't call because they know they would lose their job.
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FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 8:39:48 AM permalink
TIA,stroke, brain attack,,, most people will not recognize that is going on. Coworkers might well have thought it was booze. No coworkers present is the root of the problem. That is why a controller has an extra EKG part that other second class medical applicants do not have.

Long ago Europe had a 'only two planes in the sky and they hit head on' incident and its root cause
was a second controller on a break.
petroglyph
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November 13th, 2018 at 9:30:45 AM permalink
It's a matter of priorities. They have a hundred TSA agents at the ready for a full body cavity search, but only one ATC on duty.
beachbumbabs
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November 13th, 2018 at 11:01:16 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I have been around numerous people who are having strokes and not a single one of them knew what was going on. With that in mind I wouldn't expect the controller to call EMS. A good friend has had numerous strokes and still doesn't realize what is happening in the moment. Clearly if the person was self medicating, they wouldn't call because they know they would lose their job.



No, you misunderstood me. If I'm in the tower, and I'm incapacitated to the point someone calls 911 from the ramp, 911s first move is ALWAYS to grab the hot line and do a wellness check direct to the tower.

This happened to me personally on a midshift in 1991 over labor day weekend. And it's (unavailability )happened to others. I told that story some years back on here, but in this context maybe it bears repeating. WALL OF TEXT To FOLLOW. TLDR at end. It is sort of a funny story, though, so hopefully worth the read.

I was working alone that night as usual, with one person downstairs solo on the radar. I had to go use the bathroom about 2 am, which is down 2 flights of stairs and out of contact. There were no flights scheduled in or out for the next 20 minutes. Our headset are hardwired still, to protect communications from interference - no Bluetooth or wireless.

Procedure was for either of us to coordinate with the other, tell them I would be off frequency and why, and the other person would acknowledge. They would then pull up my tower frequency on their panel downstairs, or I would pull up their overnight assigned approach frequency (published to all pilots either way), and the Center would also be advised that the position was temporarily unmanned.

Upon return, first calls would be to tell the others you had returned, and get any updates necessary. All phone lines, coordination lines, and frequencies are taped and coordinated with UTC to the second for these things, so when they get investigated, as mine was, they know exactly what happened. And you don't dawdle in the restroom, of course.

So, we followed procedure, and I left the cab. About 53 seconds after I finished coordinating (and so had already run downstairs), EMS (we call it ARFF) called the tower for runway crossing clearance.

They usually only responded to airport emergencies, but somehow were tasked with covering nearby callouts that night, I think because of the holiday. There was an accident with injuries on Marine Drive, which is the only road between the Columbia River and the main runways, parallel to it. Very tight perimeter there, probably would not be public roadway if the airport weren't 80 or so years old.

The fire station, at that time, was located in the middle of 3 runways. (Might still be, but a lot changes in 30 years.) They could not enter or exit their base without calling the tower, but since the tower was 24/7, it was not usually an issue.

So ARFF, called out for a traffic accident, rolled without notice to the tower, then called for runway crossing. Got no answer, even though the radar room was monitoring the tower frequency. They were not allowed to "look and go" or take it on themselves to cross.

So they called repeatedly on frequency, then they called Airport Emergency Ops with a tower OTS complaint. Ops reached out by frequency and then by red phone, and by land lines, and were on the way physically into the tower from their ramp offices when I hit the top of the stairs on my return.

As I'm climbing the second flight of stairs I can hear pandemonium upstairs, with 3 phone lines ringing, someone shouting on the radio, and the radar man on override speaker calling for me. I get some sense of the issue as I'm listening running upstairs, get to the cab level, look out the window, see the firetrucks lined up trapped at base, and after a quick scan for unknown traffic, transmit to them first, get them moving, and then start grabbing phones and answering people.

I was offline for 6:23 total, which was, in everyone's opinion, an extremely fast round trip including doing my business and 2 flights of stairs, but an eternity when ARFF is on a response that should have taken within 2 minutes to the site and instead took 7. (The wreck was just outside the perimeter fence, beside a runway.) They had to answer for that.

After all the fuss was settled, my radar man calls back on the override and says, what the hell, over. We have a discussion about what the hell did they expect us to do beyond procedures for a prb (physiological relief break) that included maybe I should have peed in the sink, except that only works for men where the sink is (was), maybe I should have a long cord on the headset and hang my butt over the catwalk, maybe I should have a designated mayonnaise jar for midshifts, etc.

Unfortunate lapse for us to discuss it over recorded media. But we thought it was handled and over. It was sort of a comedy routine one-up thing for about 20 seconds. Oops.

So, of course ARFF files a formal inquiry/complaint. This happened on Sat going on Sun midshift, holiday weekend, so the office got the investigation inquiry Tuesday morning and started playing tapes. My first shift back is Wed afternoon, and people are looking at me very oddly.

My supervisor, who was an extremely straight laced introvert, says to me as I'm plugging into Local (runways), "Is there anything I should know about your last shift before I go down and listen to tapes"? I'm mystified for about 5 minutes, because that was no big deal, over and done, at the time. But then while I'm clearing somebody for takeoff, it suddenly hits me what it has to be about, and I start laughing. Had to come off frequency for about 10 seconds.

So I tell him basically what happened (between airplanes), and he turns beet red, realizing he's going to have to talk about bathroom things, which is a really hard and embarrassing topic for him. And, yeah, that's what it was about. I got reprimanded for inappropriate content on a coordination line, but otherwise I did exactly what I was supposed to do, so they weren't too harsh about it.

It turned out that we had exposed a flaw in procedures and frequency assignments. ARFF and Airport Ops always stayed on Ground Control Frequency 24/7. They could change to and monitor Tower with their radios, which they often did while working an aircraft emergency, but their requirement was to use GC first and otherwise when calling.

The radar room only had the Tower frequency installed and could only bring that up when covering a prb. So they didn't hear the ARFF call. The tower phone was a separate number from the TRACON, and the Red phone also only rang in the tower.

Basically, every way the Ops and ARFF had of reaching the tower ONLY went to the tower, for a single point of communication failure. Someone finally thought to call the radar room on their separate phone number just before I hit the stairs, so the radar man had just started to call on the override as I got back. And all of this was transcribed from the phone and frequency tapes, correlated to the second, dissected and argued about for days. (Insert huge, embarrassed eye-roll. Yeesh)

The fix was simple. ARFF and Ops, from 11p to 6a, switched their radios to Tower frequency so they were on the same page with the rest of the operation. And when we went to digital comm equipment the next year, both tower and TRACON could pull up all of the other's frequencies whenever needed, and did, with a simple push of a button for a group preset.

And when I took a promotion across the country 2 years later, they did a great going-away party for me. One of my best gifts was a beautifully decorated and labeled, empty mayonnaise jar. I still have it.

TL:DR - Emergency response critically delayed several minutes by communication mismatch while controller working alone was offline in the bathroom. Pandemonium ensued, complaint brought formal investigation, procedural flaw discovered and fixed.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DRich
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November 13th, 2018 at 11:09:46 AM permalink
Babs, interesting story and thanks for sharing.
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beachbumbabs
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November 13th, 2018 at 12:07:13 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Babs, interesting story and thanks for sharing.



Yeah, one of my less-stellar moments, but oh, well.

The point in telling it is, how weirdly this LAS situation proceded. By contrast, my really minor incident that only took 6 minutes to unfold and resolve became a major investigation.

I can't fathom how LAS went for 40 minutes, how any notification dead-ended, how the other controller was gone so long, how they fired her so fast (I think "firing" was mis-reported, tbh. It almost has to be a resign or quit event, there's no way they could process a firing that fast, even if she took illegal drugs), a dozen other discrepancies with FAA HR and Procedure requirements.

Then again, it is LAS. They're sort of famous for a number of weird things along the way. One I recall was, when it was still a combined tower/Tracon, the Chief was caught embezzling facility funds and also gambling on federal work time. Apparently the ATM paper trail was a blizzard of work-time records at casino cash machines. And somehow he didn't lose his GS-15 job. Got to do addiction counseling instead, and moved to an office job at the region. He must have known where some bodies were buried.
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FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 12:15:40 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Babs, interesting story and thanks for sharing.

Yes, thanks. I wonder what the EMS people in setting up this system ever thought about exceptional circumstances arising. Never a lone operator, never a thought about bathroom breaks. It may have been the first time it actually happened but someone at EMS should have thought about stand by procedures, unless of course EMS personnel don't ever take bathroom breaks or had never heard of such things.
billryan
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November 13th, 2018 at 12:22:55 PM permalink
As someone who had a stroke last year, I can tell you that in my case I was fully aware of what was happening. From the moment I first felt something wrong until I got myself help, I was aware. In my case I could still communicate . I'm not saying everyone is, because that's obviously wrong, but at least some people are.

As far as the Tower goes, is it hardened against outside entry? Would an ambulance or first responder find a secured door barring their entry?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachbumbabs
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November 13th, 2018 at 12:28:10 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

As someone who had a stroke last year, I can tell you that in my case I was fully aware of what was happening. From the moment I first felt something wrong until I got myself help, I was aware. In my case I could still communicate . I'm not saying everyone is, because that's obviously wrong, but at least some people are.

As far as the Tower goes, is it hardened against outside entry? Would an ambulance or first responder find a secured door barring their entry?



Yeah, it's hardened behind at least 2 secured steel doors, open by combination only, with restricted key back-up, cctv, alarmed, etc. Combination not issued beyond working people, but emergency keys issued to both Ops and on-site ARFF. Usually 1 secure door to facility, sometimes secure elevator in addition, always secure door at final staircase leading to cab floor. Open at top, no superstructure to staircase for sightlines. Low guardrail at best.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DRich
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November 13th, 2018 at 12:44:53 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

As someone who had a stroke last year, I can tell you that in my case I was fully aware of what was happening. From the moment I first felt something wrong until I got myself help, I was aware. In my case I could still communicate . I'm not saying everyone is, because that's obviously wrong, but at least some people are.



I expect to have one soon so I will report back if I was aware of what was happening. My blood pressure was down today 192/128.
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billryan
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November 13th, 2018 at 1:10:16 PM permalink
Doctor told me I had approx. a one in ten chance of having a second, larger one within a year. That was eleven months ago.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachbumbabs
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November 13th, 2018 at 3:00:02 PM permalink
Update. The controller resigned Sunday. No word on whether she was eligible to retire, but she wasn't fired. Also no further info on what happened to cause her incapacitation.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
gordonm888
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November 13th, 2018 at 5:10:33 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Doctor told me I had approx. a one in ten chance of having a second, larger one within a year. That was eleven months ago.



Yikes. Best wishes for good health.

Quote: DRich

I expect to have one soon so I will report back if I was aware of what was happening. My blood pressure was down today 192/128.



OMG. That is about the same blood pressure numbers that Franklin Delano Roosevelt had in the period leading up to his death.

I assume you are under medical care -but with those numbers you perhaps should be in a cardiac ward of a hospital. WOV Forum is not the place to get medical advice - but please get a doctor's advice if you have not already.
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gamerfreak
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November 13th, 2018 at 5:34:00 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Yikes. Best wishes for good health.

OMG. That is about the same blood pressure numbers that Franklin Delano Roosevelt had in the period leading up to his death.

I assume you are under medical care -but with those numbers you perhaps should be in a cardiac ward of a hospital. WOV Forum is not the place to get medical advice - but please get a doctor's advice if you have not already.


As long as we are bragging about our numbers, I have high cholesterol at age 26.
ThatDonGuy
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November 13th, 2018 at 5:40:11 PM permalink
Audio of the incident, in case anyone is interested in what actually happened
FleaStiff
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November 13th, 2018 at 6:34:06 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

My blood pressure was down today 192/128.

get yourself a blue light.
MaxPen
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November 13th, 2018 at 11:30:49 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

get yourself a blue light.



What is that?
FleaStiff
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November 14th, 2018 at 12:18:31 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

What is that?


Spectrum = ROYGBIV = red orange yellow green blue indigo violet.
light = lamp = bulb.
FleaStiff
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November 14th, 2018 at 8:37:00 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Yeah, it's hardened behind at least 2 secured steel doors, open by combination only, with restricted key back-up, cctv, alarmed, etc. ......

There are special safety standards for control towers that I read years ago. ASTM or something. Construction and equipment specifications showing how fortress like they must be ... non of this patrol car drives up and cop knocks on door.
billryan
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November 14th, 2018 at 9:00:55 AM permalink
About ten years ago, LaGuardia built a new control tower. The old one was out on the runway, in a restricted area. The new one was built in what had been a short term parking lot, in an area the public can easily access. That never made sense to me.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachbumbabs
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November 14th, 2018 at 9:56:05 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

About ten years ago, LaGuardia built a new control tower. The old one was out on the runway, in a restricted area. The new one was built in what had been a short term parking lot, in an area the public can easily access. That never made sense to me.



Yeah, LGA tower was a famous old legacy. They had to move it because sightlines for every inch of all runways and taxiways visible dictated the height. Which made it so tall it would have been a flight hazard (obstruction) if they had built in the same spot. So they moved it.

They determine that by taking a helicopter up foot by foot to find the lowest possible cab floor elevation from various vantage points. Every foot is extremely expensive, given the bracing and hundreds of miles of cables and electronics they run.

But once the site is determined, it's then fenced with 24/7 armed guards on the gates, all cars subject to search, (including the mirror under and all compartments, employee or not) pre-arranged admittance just to parking by ID list only, etc. And that's just to park your car. There's also a wide no-park protected area so no one can bring a vehicle close to the building. Then you still have to get into the building.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
billryan
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November 14th, 2018 at 10:28:24 AM permalink
There was something very comforting about the old tower. I can't put my finger on it, but seeing it from the air was special. The new one is simply sterile.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
FleaStiff
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November 16th, 2018 at 6:26:09 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Spectrum = ROYGBIV = red orange yellow green blue indigo violet.
light = lamp = bulb.


If my prior response was inadequate I'm sure Doc, Soopoo and Tanko will chime in with praises for the great depth and breadth of my medical knowledge just as they will surely sing praises for my great knowledge of terrorism.
Doc
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November 16th, 2018 at 11:06:24 PM permalink
I think I must have missed something somewhere. I thought there was a degree of sarcasm going around, but maybe it went way over my head.

On the other hand, the mention of my forum name along with anesthesiologist Soopoo's and the words "medical knowledge" all in the same sentence make me wonder if there has been a misunderstanding on someone else's part. Just in case there is that kind of confusion, I should repeat that my handle of "Doc" does not imply any kind of medical school training. I am an engineer. The handle mostly came out of the nickname that some of my students came up with to cut the formalities when they asked me to join their intramural basketball team a few decades ago -- it sounded friendlier on the court than "Doctor So-and-so" while more professional/respectful between student/professor than a first name basis. On another forum some years ago, I used the handle "Dr. J", since my first name begins with J, and it was a play on Julius Irving's nickname.
FleaStiff
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November 16th, 2018 at 11:56:37 PM permalink
Oh, I had simply assumed it was medical doctor, but as an engineer you are certainly qualified to
chime in on the use of blue light to treat hypertension.
tringlomane
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November 17th, 2018 at 1:25:49 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Oh, I had simply assumed it was medical doctor, but as an engineer you are certainly qualified to
chime in on the use of blue light to treat hypertension.



He is? I have a PhD in engineering, and I'm not at all qualified to answer that. Honestly, I would have to look it up for it to be true. Because at face value, I wouldn't assume it was.

A quick google hints that this article discussing it came out last week, I would be surprised if any of them read it.
Tanko
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November 17th, 2018 at 3:03:19 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

If my prior response was inadequate I'm sure Doc, Soopoo and Tanko will chime in with praises for the great depth and breadth of my medical knowledge....



I am not a medical professional.

I suppose you included me because I suggested people see a physician instead of treating themselves like lab rats.

I believe in being a good patient. I have faith in my physicians and the medicines they prescribe. I don’t believe in alternative medicine. Especially, herbs, teas and lightbulbs.

That blue light study involved only 14 healthy males over a two day period. No females. It only lowered systolic. No mention of diastolic. Doesn't mention how long the effect lasted.

Green Tea Supplement and liver failure.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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Joined: Dec 28, 2014
November 17th, 2018 at 3:48:01 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I think I must have missed something somewhere. I thought there was a degree of sarcasm going around, but maybe it went way over my head.

On the other hand, the mention of my forum name along with anesthesiologist Soopoo's and the words "medical knowledge" all in the same sentence make me wonder if there has been a misunderstanding on someone else's part. Just in case there is that kind of confusion, I should repeat that my handle of "Doc" does not imply any kind of medical school training. I am an engineer. The handle mostly came out of the nickname that some of my students came up with to cut the formalities when they asked me to join their intramural basketball team a few decades ago -- it sounded friendlier on the court than "Doctor So-and-so" while more professional/respectful between student/professor than a first name basis. On another forum some years ago, I used the handle "Dr. J", since my first name begins with J, and it was a play on Julius Irving's nickname.


What type of engineering if you don’t mind me asking?
Doc
Doc
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November 17th, 2018 at 7:57:48 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

What type of engineering if you don’t mind me asking?

No harm in asking. I drive a steam locomotive.






;-)

And yes, I am occasionally a smarta$$, just to amuse myself.

But I can give a strait answer sometimes. The short answer is "Mechanical." The longer explanation is that I went to school longer than I can reasonably justify. I sometimes say that the life of a student is really, really, attractive except that it doesn't pay worth a dang in the very near term.

My college-student years were intermittent and extended over four decades leading to a BS (undesignated on the diploma but majoring in Physics), a BME (that's Bachelor of Mechanical Engineering), an MSME, an MS in Industrial Management, and a PhD (again undesignated on the diploma, as is normally the case, but with a major field in Mechanical Engineering.) To address a recent comment, as with tringlomane, my PhD didn't teach me anything about blue lights and treatment of medical conditions. I didn't even read the article.

I have long been retired from engineering pursuits, and my wife and I describe our full-time jobs as "having fun."
billryan
billryan
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
November 17th, 2018 at 8:40:04 AM permalink
Flea stiffs amazing academic credentials are to be found where? As he
declared whom he thought was qualified to comment on his postings, surely his bonifides must be well established.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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November 17th, 2018 at 10:16:36 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Flea stiffs amazing credentials . . . .

LOL Not much more than Draft Dodging
and Collecting Unemployment Insurance.
Face
Administrator
Face
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Joined: Dec 27, 2010
November 17th, 2018 at 10:26:21 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

get yourself a blue light.



Quote: MaxPen

What is that?





Sound advice, IMO.

Quote: gamerfreak

As long as we are bragging about our numbers, I have high cholesterol at age 26.



Resting heart rate of ~39. It's why I'm always so mellow.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
billryan
billryan
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November 17th, 2018 at 11:01:56 AM permalink
Loved me some Labatt Blue back in the day. Before Light beer was a thing.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
DRich
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Joined: Jul 6, 2012
November 17th, 2018 at 12:20:24 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Loved me some Labatt Blue back in the day. Before Light beer was a thing.



I was a Molson Golden guy.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
billryan
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
November 17th, 2018 at 4:46:43 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I was a Molson Golden guy.





We stapled together the six pack holders of Molson and wallpapered our entire three bedroom apartment except for the bathroom. Went on Spring Break to discover Molson changed the design of the six pack on us. Had to go back and substitute some Molson Brador six packs to stretch out the job.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
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