2020 Election
Quote: RonCIt is obvious who it has the "most" impact on...the unborn child.
Bingo. There are people that swear they
have birth memories and even womb
memories. That's a living person in
there. Ever know a woman whose had
a miscarriage? They are devastated by it,
they know beyond a doubt that was
a living, feeling human they had inside
of them.
Quote: EvenBobBingo. There are people that swear they
have birth memories and even womb
memories. That's a living person in
there. Ever know a woman whose had
a miscarriage? They are devastated by it,
they know beyond a doubt that was
a living, feeling human they had inside
of them.
Plenty of people have no problem eating what others consider their dear dear pets. And they eat them with ENTHUSIASM and ENJOYMENT!!
Quote: RonCWhat an absolutely idiotic question to ask someone when trying to attack them for a position or belief in something other than what you believe.
Calm down.
I’m not trying to attack you for your abortion position. I don’t give a flying f*** what you think about abortion. Same goes to every other guy who feels like ranting about it on here, pro or con.
But don’t get offended when I place higher value on the opinions of women who.... have actually been affected by abortion.
Unless the health of the mother is at risk, I think the cutoff should be sometime before the point where the child would survive a premature birth.
Quote: ams288Come on, guys. Everyone knows the abortion debate will finally be settled on a Vegas message board by a bunch of men who aren't doctors*.
You're so close. Keep it up!Anesthesiologists don't count.
My feelings are hurt! I can give some background, perhaps. There are some neonates that due to mainly some congenital problem will not live more than minutes once outside the womb. The doctors won't 'murder' the child, rather, they just won't use extraordinary methods to make a futile attempt to prolong the child's life. I remember quite a few of these from residency, but that is over 30 years ago. These decisions were not made lightly, and were always difficult for both the doctors and the parents.
I feel my opinions mirror terapined.... I am 'against' abortion, but wholly support a woman's right to have one.
We differ on alcohol.....
Quote: terapinedQuote: FaceBout time. See you at the next GOA meeting.
The problem is some gunowners deny other humans the freedom to live
I am ok with freedom until somebody uses their freedom to deny another person their freedom
The definition of trolling, right there, ladies and gentlemen.
The problem is some expecting mothers....oh, you already knew what I was gonna say.
The important part of the bill below. Other stuff not so important (basically redefines murder, homicide, and manslaughter to remove abortion from it), other legalese mumbo jumbo, and saying stuff about women’s rights and equality.
Quote:ABORTION. 1. A HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONER LICENSED, CERTI-
14 FIED, OR AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE EIGHT OF THE EDUCATION LAW, ACTING WITH-
15 IN HIS OR HER LAWFUL SCOPE OF PRACTICE, MAY PERFORM AN ABORTION WHEN,
16 ACCORDING TO THE PRACTITIONER'S REASONABLE AND GOOD FAITH PROFESSIONAL
17 JUDGMENT BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE PATIENT'S CASE: THE PATIENT IS WITHIN
18 TWENTY-FOUR WEEKS FROM THE COMMENCEMENT OF PREGNANCY, OR THERE IS AN
19 ABSENCE OF FETAL VIABILITY, OR THE ABORTION IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE
20 PATIENT'S LIFE OR HEALTH.
21 2. THIS ARTICLE SHALL BE CONSTRUED AND APPLIED CONSISTENT WITH AND
22 SUBJECT TO APPLICABLE LAWS AND APPLICABLE AND AUTHORIZED REGULATIONS
23 GOVERNING HEALTH CARE PROCEDURES.
Wouldn’t it be safe to say that an expecting mother’s health is always at risk, no matter how big or small?
Quote: ams288Calm down.
I’m not trying to attack you for your abortion position. I don’t give a flying f*** what you think about abortion. Same goes to every other guy who feels like ranting about it on here, pro or con.
But don’t get offended when I place higher value on the opinions of women who.... have actually been affected by abortion.
I'm not the one who asked the idiotic question.
I'm not offended by what opinions you value more.
Quote: RSWouldn’t it be safe to say that an expecting mother’s health is always at risk, no matter how big or small?
But that's the thing, I think it does matter how big or small the risk is to the mother's health...or life.
Conservatives love to break things down in binary, 1's and 0's, and either/or. If only it were that simple, right? Things are much more complicated than that.
That being said, I usually refrain from discussion on this topic for the obvious reasons.
Quote: RonCI'm not the one who asked the idiotic question.
Ah, I see. You only gave the idiotic response.
Quote: RS
Wouldn’t it be safe to say that an expecting mother’s health is always at risk, no matter how big or small?
Absolutely
Its up to a Dr to determine the risk to a mothers health and take the appropriate action
Every case is different and unique when it comes to a risky pregnancy.
Quote: SteverinosBut that's the thing, I think it does matter how big or small the risk is to the mother's health...or life.
Conservatives love to break things down in binary, 1's and 0's, and either/or. If only it were that simple, right? Things are much more complicated than that.
That being said, I usually refrain from discussion on this topic for the obvious reasons.
From what I read of the bill (quoted), it basically just sounds like if there exists a health risk or if it's possible to have a problem, then the abortion is okay. It didn't say anything about how risky the health concern may be, just that there needs to be one (and like I said, there always is one AFAIK).
I'm not the one breaking it down into 1's and 0's, either/or's, etc. That's how the bill is written.
Quote: RSQuote: SteverinosBut that's the thing, I think it does matter how big or small the risk is to the mother's health...or life.
Conservatives love to break things down in binary, 1's and 0's, and either/or. If only it were that simple, right? Things are much more complicated than that.
That being said, I usually refrain from discussion on this topic for the obvious reasons.
From what I read of the bill (quoted), it basically just sounds like if there exists a health risk or if it's possible to have a problem, then the abortion is okay. It didn't say anything about how risky the health concern may be, just that there needs to be one (and like I said, there always is one AFAIK).
I'm not the one breaking it down into 1's and 0's, either/or's, etc. That's how the bill is written.
Its Doctor freedom
Quote: RonCI didn't ascribe to the aborted baby as feeling or knowing what was happening; I simply said that the life that was ahead for that whatever you feel like calling it was taken away.
The reason many woman feel remorse for having abortions is because they realize that they have taken life away from something.
Taken away from whom? You can only take something away from someone who understands or will come to understand they have that thing to begin with.
We all know he likes to raw dog his mistresses. He suggested to Howard Stern that he wanted Marla to abort Tiffany when he found out she was pregnant.
Surely it’s gotta be a large number...
Quote: ams288Ah, I see. You only gave the idiotic response.
That’s not at all necessary.
Your views will be challenged, and perhaps self-affirmed, only when you take the time to understand why people think the way they do. Sometimes people have opinions that are both better, and are more consistent internally than mine, unless I don’t listen to the why. I’ve changed my positions on a few things, but only by way of really trying to understand other people.
The most important realization I’ve ever come to?: I don’t know, I only think.
Spatacus! What a brain trust, how
entertaining the debates will be. Wait
till Hillary announces about June or so.
She'll say she wasn't going to run, but
the field is so weak it's her duty to the
country to save it from Trump.. lol
Quote: EvenBobWait
till Hillary announces about June or so.
She'll say she wasn't going to run, but
the field is so weak it's her duty to the
country to save it from Trump.. lol
Saddest fan fiction I’ve ever read.
Quote: ams288Saddest fan fiction I’ve ever read.
Be even sadder when it happens. She's
saying she won't run but her friends
say she talks a different story to them.
Quote: RonCOnce the child is born, it is no longer abortion. If we go by the current standard that an unborn child or "fetus" is not a human being and US citizen and, at birth, it becomes both of those things being the lowest possible standard, the Dr and mother deciding to terminate the life of the baby would then be murderers.
The least acceptable standard, even for those committed to allowing wide open abortions, should be that you can't kill a baby that has been delivered.
No, it really shouldn't be the least acceptable standard. The mother is the next of kin. If the baby is born alive but will not live long (my brother died at 3 days), the mother and doctor should be allowed to make the decision about extraordinary measures, DNR, ventilators, surgery or drugs with a low probability of success, all the thousand other things that can be tried. NOBODY but them has a right to get in the middle of that decision.
There are cases where the best care for the mother is to let the baby come to term. They're really rare. They know ahead of time the baby will not be developed enough or has enough defects not to survive, but it will damage the mother somehow if they take it before it's delivered. There are also cases where the baby dies in the womb but somehow the mother's bodies don't get the message and she doesn't miscarry. Other stuff. I don't know enough about to speak on it medically.
Point being, neither do you, or voters, or legislators, or churchers. Doctors know. They discuss the situation, options, reasons to take a particular course of action. With the mothers (and fathers if available) and it's THEIR decision. THEIR flesh. THEIR private business.
Quote: EvenBobCory Booker has entered the race, yay
Spatacus! What a brain trust, how
entertaining the debates will be. Wait
till Hillary announces about June or so.
She'll say she wasn't going to run, but
the field is so weak it's her duty to the
country to save it from Trump.. lol
Didn't you get the memo? Nobody cares about Hillary anymore.
AOC is the new boogeyman for the far-right. They are absolutely OBSESSED with her.
Quote: TigerWuAOC is the new boogeyman for the far-right. They are absolutely OBSESSED with her.
She DANCED in a fun video.
DANCED!!!
I admire their courage. And in most of those cases, I believe the country owes them a great debt of thanks.Quote: beachbumbabsNo, it really shouldn't be the least acceptable standard. The mother is the next of kin. If the baby is born alive but will not live long (my brother died at 3 days), the mother and doctor should be allowed to make the decision about extraordinary measures, DNR, ventilators, surgery or drugs with a low probability of success, all the thousand other things that can be tried. NOBODY but them has a right to get in the middle of that decision.
There are cases where the best care for the mother is to let the baby come to term. They're really rare. They know ahead of time the baby will not be developed enough or has enough defects not to survive, but it will damage the mother somehow if they take it before it's delivered. There are also cases where the baby dies in the womb but somehow the mother's bodies don't get the message and she doesn't miscarry. Other stuff. I don't know enough about to speak on it medically.
Point being, neither do you, or voters, or legislators, or churchers. Doctors know. They discuss the situation, options, reasons to take a particular course of action. With the mothers (and fathers if available) and it's THEIR decision. THEIR flesh. THEIR private business.
How can those that sit in judgement of a woman's choice to deliver, have a different opinion about the death penalty, or foreign war?
Where is the outrage for the millions we have killed with sanctions? When Madelline Albright was asked if it was worth it, to kill 500 thousand children in Iraq [before we had invaded] she said, " I think it was". We are starving, and withholding life saving medicine in Yemen, Syria and now Venezuela as I type. Where is the horror for those living children? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/us-bombs-yemen-children-humanitarian-disaster
It isn't about life, it's about control. Evidenced by the 1.5 million children in orphanages and foster care [worldwide] some 118 thousand waiting to be adopted right now in the USA. Some of them, the premium baby's.
Kudo's to those women's courage, to make tough choices, and not "leave it up to nature". Bravo.
Quote: TigerWuDidn't you get the memo? Nobody cares about Hillary anymore.
Wait till June..
Quote: EvenBobWait till June..
Don't worry.
I don't have to wait until then to tell you she's not running.
Quote: TigerWuDon't worry.
I don't have to wait until then to tell you she's not running.
I think you will be correct. But if you are sure I'll give you some free money. I'll send you $100 tomorrow. Just agree to send me $10,000 if she runs. Since you 'know' "she's not running" you have nothing to worry about!
Quote: BozI’m going to assume your father isn’t a member here and while I don’t think he is a public figure, he is still open game here like President Trump.
So I’m going to say he was obviously a loser in life and was a disappointment to many. And it appears he was a bitter man for never making anything of his life and blaming others for his life decisions. Sad, but not unexpected.
No clue how you see him.
Time for another new rule?
Personal insult. Per the Martingale policy, nothing four previous suspensions since 12/25/18, this one shall be for a month.
While Steverinos' father is not a forum member, I take an insult of him to not only be an indirect insult of Steverinos, but much worse. This principle was explained when somebody insulted EvenBob's wife and was correctly suspended for it.
However, to answer your question, I will amend the rule on personal insults to put in writing that it extends to family members. I still think it doesn't need to be said as there is a certain code of honor that gentlemen respect that insulting the mother, father, or wife of a man, especially a wife or mother, is much worse than insulting the man directly.
It is understood that BBB issued a warning for this previously. However, this is a rare incident where I'm pulling rank. I will take 100% of the heat on this.
Quote: SOOPOOI think you will be correct. But if you are sure I'll give you some free money. I'll send you $100 tomorrow. Just agree to send me $10,000 if she runs. Since you 'know' "she's not running" you have nothing to worry about!
Haha, no way! That's a sucker bet. I'm not psychic. There's always a chance she could run. I think it's highly unlikely, though. Even if I was 99% sure she wouldn't run, I wouldn't risk $10,000 on it. I'm not that big of a prop bettor.
Regardless, I've already offered a wager to Evenbob multiple times on this issue, and he refuses to take me up on it. Guess he's not so sure she'll run, after all.
I don't like to see Boz get suspended. Not sure what he said ,I dont care, whatever the cecumstances are, I DO believe family members should be off limits. I'm not sure how that's not obvious. You don't even need a written rule for that.Quote: WizardPersonal insult. Per the Martingale policy, nothing four previous suspensions since 12/25/18, this one shall be for a month.
While Steverinos' father is not a forum member, I take an insult of him to not only be an indirect insult of Steverinos, but much worse. This principle was explained when somebody insulted EvenBob's wife and was correctly suspended for it.
However, to answer your question, I will amend the rule on personal insults to put in writing that it extends to family members. I still think it doesn't need to be said as there is a certain code of honor that gentlemen respect that insulting the mother, father, or wife of a man, especially a wife or mother, is much worse than insulting the man directly.
It is understand that BBB issued a warning for this previously. However, this is a rare incident where I'm pulling rank. I will take 100% of the heat on this.
p.s. It's probably a good idea not to even mention family members hete most of the time.
Quote: WizardPersonal insult. Per the Martingale policy, nothing four previous suspensions since 12/25/18, this one shall be for a month.
While Steverinos' father is not a forum member, I take an insult of him to not only be an indirect insult of Steverinos, but much worse. This principle was explained when somebody insulted EvenBob's wife and was correctly suspended for it.
However, to answer your question, I will amend the rule on personal insults to put in writing that it extends to family members. I still think it doesn't need to be said as there is a certain code of honor that gentlemen respect that insulting the mother, father, or wife of a man, especially a wife or mother, is much worse than insulting the man directly.
It is understand that BBB issued a warning for this previously. However, this is a rare incident where I'm pulling rank. I will take 100% of the heat on this.
30 days is harsh, imo, considering he was suspended for incorrectly assuming another member was a Trump supporter. I don't think he meant any harm by that incorrect assumption at all.
Quote: tringlomane30 days is harsh, imo, considering he was suspended for incorrectly assuming another member was a Trump supporter. I don't think he meant any harm by that incorrect assumption at all.
Boz has been suspended something in the range of 40 times.
I don’t think a nuke would be overly harsh at this point.
Im not advocating for that, though. I am going to go back to keeping my nose out of mod decisions. They do a nice job keeping this place humming along. This incident just particularly bothered me.
Quote: WizardPersonal insult. Per the Martingale policy, nothing four previous suspensions since 12/25/18, this one shall be for a month.
Even tho I like Boz, insulting a father,
mother, sibling, like he did, would
literally get you killed in some
cultures, and the killer would not
be prosecuted. There are just some
areas that are taboo.
Reminds me of a scene in Modern
Family. Cam has a terrible redneck
sister and he's complaining about
her. Claire chimes in with her opinion,
and Cam gets angry saying, "Hey,
she's my sister, not yours. Only I can
trash her."
Quote: TigerWuDidn't you get the memo? Nobody cares about Hillary anymore.
Don't be so sure. This headline kinda sums it up.
https://www.dailyfreeman.com/news/local-news/applicants-for-dutchess-county-legislature-seat-all-from-rhinebeck-are/article_b54feb44-2678-11e9-ae27-f3a8d30b4819.html
Quote: billryanHe is attempting "Suicide by Moderator" and he is hoping to take a few " traitors" with him
Surprised more people haven’t realized this.
Seems like he’s been anticipating a nuke for a while now.
Quote: tringlomane30 days is harsh, imo,
I don't think he meant any harm by that incorrect assumption at all.
Gimme a break. Here's Boz's suspension history before his current suspension:Quote: SOOPOOI like Boz.
However, this time I agree with the mods, but disagree with the length.
| Date | # of days |
|---|---|
| 07/26/14 | 7 days |
| 09/24/14 | 3 days |
| 04/01/15 | 14 days |
| 05/04/16 | 3 days |
| 06/06/16 | 7 days |
| 08/29/17 | 7 days |
| 12/20/17 | 3 days |
| 04/18/18 | 7 days |
| 06/19/18 | 3 days |
| 11/25/18 | 3 days |
| 12/02/18 | 7 days |
| 12/20/18 | 14 days |
| 01/28/19 | 3 days |
And you guys are complaining that he only got 30 days after his 14th suspension?!!? So much for all the righties who claim liberal bias from the mods lol.
Boz has gotten the most lenient treatment out of any member of the forum. He should have been nuked 3 years ago back on 06/06/16. and if he was properly martingaled, his current suspension would be for 28,672 days. If anything I see conservative bias lol!
Quote: DarrenGGimme a break. Here's Boz's suspension history before his current suspension:
Boz's prior suspensions
Date # of days 07/26/14 7 days 09/24/14 3 days 04/01/15 14 days 05/04/16 3 days 06/06/16 7 days 08/29/17 7 days 12/20/17 3 days 04/18/18 7 days 06/19/18 3 days 11/25/18 3 days 12/02/18 7 days 12/20/18 14 days 01/28/19 3 days
And you guys are complaining that he only got 30 days after his 14th suspension?!!? So much for all the righties who claim liberal bias from the mods lol.
Boz has gotten the most lenient treatment out of any member of the forum. He should have been nuked 3 years ago back on 06/06/16. and if he was properly martingaled, his current suspension would be for 28,672 days. If anything I see conservative bias lol!
I'll admit that I didn't look at his suspension list before I wrote that I thought it was too long. I just knew I totally disagreed with his last 3 day suspension. But even totally ignoring that one, it looks like he deserves 30 days under the standard "martingale" rules.
Quote: beachbumbabsNo, it really shouldn't be the least acceptable standard. The mother is the next of kin. If the baby is born alive but will not live long (my brother died at 3 days), the mother and doctor should be allowed to make the decision about extraordinary measures, DNR, ventilators, surgery or drugs with a low probability of success, all the thousand other things that can be tried. NOBODY but them has a right to get in the middle of that decision.
There are cases where the best care for the mother is to let the baby come to term. They're really rare. They know ahead of time the baby will not be developed enough or has enough defects not to survive, but it will damage the mother somehow if they take it before it's delivered. There are also cases where the baby dies in the womb but somehow the mother's bodies don't get the message and she doesn't miscarry. Other stuff. I don't know enough about to speak on it medically.
Point being, neither do you, or voters, or legislators, or churchers. Doctors know. They discuss the situation, options, reasons to take a particular course of action. With the mothers (and fathers if available) and it's THEIR decision. THEIR flesh. THEIR private business.
Quote: RonCThe least acceptable standard, even for those committed to allowing wide open abortions, should be that you can't kill a baby that has been delivered.
You misread what I said. I said that you shouldn't be able to kill the baby after it is delivered.
I said nothing about what treatment protocol should be followed after birth.
Quote: MintyIs that real??
Yes.
But he's endorsed her before, and she told him to buzz off.
Quote: MintyEven if she isn't interested in his support, there fact that it's there concerns me.
Do you realize that controversial people like David Duke feign support for the candidate they don’t want to win?
Quote: MintyEven if she isn't interested in his support, there fact that it's there concerns me.
why
Doesn't concern me
Putin supporting Trump to be President, now that really concerns me
Could you list your complaints with her?Quote: gamerfreakTulsi Gabbard is terrible, I really wish she wasn’t running.
What I know of her is she is anti war. She has also supported strict gun control. She doesn't want us to invade Cuba and kill lots of innocent people. What do you have against her?
Quote: gamerfreakDo you realize that controversial people like David Duke feign support for the candidate they don’t want to win?
Haha... makes sense.
That would explain why some KKK klowns endorsed Hillary.