Hunterhill
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April 16th, 2018 at 7:56:47 PM permalink
Conventional wisdom is that you shouldn't bother repairing an old car if the cost of repairs is more than the cars value.
I'm not sure this is correct,for example lets say you don't care about having the newest or latest or coolest looking car,you just want dependable transportation.
If you buy a new car for lets say 38k then after 8 years sell it for 6k you have spent 4k per year on your car,( not counting maintenance,taxes insurance etc..).
So if you have an old car even if you have to spend 2k a year in repairs it seems like you are better off.
Thoughts anyone?
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
MrV
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April 16th, 2018 at 8:01:30 PM permalink
Right up my alley.

I've bought one new car in my life, and got rid of it a few years later.

My daily drivers are older turbobricks, i.e. older Volvos which I've restored and maintain doing most of the work myself.

Also we own an older F-250: same thing.

I bought an exotic but it is too esoteric for me to really tear into: I have specialists service that one.

I enjoy working on them, it exercises both mind and body.

I would not recommend others rely on cars as old as mine ('82, '86) however unless they are mechanically adept, as a lot of tinkering is always on the menu to keep them tip top.

Once sorted out they're as reliable as a new car, provided maintenance is not neglected (key).

I have over the course of my lifetime saved one helluva lot of money on transportation expenses; I find that in not buying a new car every couple of years I am giving up very little in exchange.

I'd call it "Mr. V's Advantage Play."
"What, me worry?"
Greasyjohn
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April 16th, 2018 at 8:17:58 PM permalink
One of the problems with owning an old car is that you have to be able to put up with squeaks and noises. Some noises in the suspension can be almost impossible to track down. You can rebuild almost everything and still listen to the same noise. Once a vehicle has 140,000 miles on it you can expect just about anything to happen; the tranny can go, the rearend can go, the power steering can go, the air conditioning compressor can go. It's endless.

I completely agree with your philosophy that the amount of money that you lose on depreciation, increased insurance and registration makes owning an older car very palatable--even if you have to spend a couple of thousand dollars a year it's well worth it. But be ready for the noise, the rattles, the old sagging suspension, the endless nuisances and the aggravation. I know, I had a T-Bird for 20 and 1/2 years. Bought it new. At 195,000 miles I blew a head gasket (at least I estimate the vehicle had 195,000 miles on it, because the odometer quit working at 145,000 miles). Bye bye. Got a one year old car. Not one problem in the last 7 years.

I used to think that you could keep a car looking and running primo forever. It's impossible, unless you're willing to spend bucket loads of money.
Last edited by: Greasyjohn on Apr 16, 2018
beachbumbabs
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April 16th, 2018 at 9:03:28 PM permalink
Just sold mom's 1999 Buick Friday, 112k miles, still ran fine. MV is so right, you HAVE to do the routine maintenance from new if you want to keep the car.

I've bought 4 cars new, 18 used. Only once did I feel I got value from a new car, and that's the one I now own.

My guidelines are (fwiw, I'm no car guru):

Get an account at a credit union. They have the best rates on car loans. Build your credit with autopay at the same time.

Buy a recent model year, used car with a great reputation for reliability and low maintenance costs. Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, Edmunds, others have a lot of info on which cars fit your needs. Car depreciates 25-40% the minute you drive it off the lot.

When the maintenance cost per month exceeds the monthly payment on a new (er) car that you like, time to sell the old car and get the new one. Beyond that, you've got a hobby, not a savings.

Avoid aluminum engine blocks and digital dashboards. They are the 2 things I've had the most trouble with. Can't avoid electronics and chips any more, but that's the stuff that fails first. Aluminum, in most smaller engines, warps if the engine overheats, and can't be fixed.

Leather interiors are useless. Good cloth lasts better, stains less, stays cooler, and is cheaper.

Do not buy low-profile rims, no matter how great they look. They don't ride for s!#/, dent in any pothole (which ruins the air seal), and can't be repaired. Replacements are 600-1k each. Tires for them are double or more the standard tire price for similar quality.

I find, for me, extended warranty (of the right kind, there's lots of crap out there) on a quality car is usually worth the money. For a fishin' truck or a college kid car, don't bother.

If you can, buy used cars from gearheads. Everybody knows one. They have the 2 bedroom house with a 6 car garage, their own engine hoist, and keep their cars like you could eat off the engine. They spend a lot of time getting a car just right and doing all the little maintenance.

Mom didn't listen to most of this, btw. YOLO. 2015 Veloster, sunburst orange, leather interior, all the bells and whistles, tiny 1.6L aluminum engine w/turbo, 18" low profile tires. She loves it.

So be like Mom; take my advice with a big grain of salt.

In fact, MrV seems a good resource. Mosca is in the business and VERY knowledgeable. A PM to him would probably be very worthwhile.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
billryan
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April 16th, 2018 at 9:44:22 PM permalink
A friends formula.
Buy a $5,000 car. Make it better ascetically, drive it a few months and sell it for a small profit. Rinse and repeat. After two or three years, you are driving $10,000 cars and you get rid of them before they get too much mileage.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Face
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beachbumbabsAZDuffmanpetroglyph
April 17th, 2018 at 12:55:22 PM permalink
Please buy new. We with more sense than money need a well populated trade-in pool =p

I'm an end of the line guy so have a few cents to throw...

A big "pah" on Greasyjohn's naysaying. Just about everyone has a rattle knob on the dash. Mine reads "PWR VOL"; yours may be different but it will be similar. Just turn it to the right until the rattles go away. Guaranteed to work and 100% free.

Also a correction to Babs, warping due to overheating isn't a feature of Al but rather a feature of overheating. Fe will warp just as well, though (and perhaps your point) not as easily as Al. And while neither is a shadetree fix, either element can be repaired by way of milling the head. It requires CNC and a f#$% ton of labor hours, but it can be, and often is, still done.

But yeah, run em into the ground, sell to me, and I'll run another 60k on 'em. There's just.... they're too f#$%ing expensive! A new, terribly equipped full sized truck runs near $50 freaking k nowadays. We're talking $500+/mnth. And all the (now) clean records and safe driver discounts still ain't getting me insured for less than several thousand a year, since I ain't paying no cash and can't get away with just liability. So just to have it in my driveway and legal, forget putting a single mile, having a single mishap, or wearing on a single wear part, I'm up around $10k a year in expense. Even if I pull it back to trucks I can actually almost afford, that's still a payment of $350 with only a light discount on insurance. Still $7k a year.

I got a s#$%box outside with roughly 190k Buffalo NY miles on it (don't know exactly cuz too many dash warnings omit the odometer). In '17 I lost tranny lines ($300) then the entire tranny ($1,700), blew out the brakes 3 different times, talking ALL lines and ABS controller ($900), seized a caliper ($300)...I could quite literally pull the leaking, smoking, dying 4.8 out, slam a brand new VORTEC in, PAY someone to do it all, and STILL be financially better off than buying new. Hell, I'd still be better off than buying used. Plus you get vegan points for recycling / non-consuming, or whatever the crunchy granola crowd gives out these days. It's a no brainer.

"Not being worth it if repairs are over the value" is insurance talk, or perhaps is a factor if you plan on selling it for future highway use. If like mine its only future is a field or a furnace, then the repair is worth it if it's cheaper than your next payment. I would put a $3k engine in my $500 truck without batting an eye, because added to my $600/yr insurance and no other payments, it's still twice as cheap as the alternative.

I suppose there's a bunch of caveats, including where you live (some places murder vehicles, some are light an automotive retirement home) and what car you intend to run to the moon and back (some cars are just s#$% (Looking at you, Dodge)). But for just a quick confirmation, yeah Hunter, you're on the right track.
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Ibeatyouraces
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April 17th, 2018 at 1:09:05 PM permalink
Famous line by Eazy E...

"I throw it in the gutter and go buy another."
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
gamerfreak
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April 17th, 2018 at 1:15:37 PM permalink
Coming from someone who has been a first responder and seen many really terrible car accidents, buy the newest car you can afford.

Car manufacturers have made significant progress with vehicle safety over the last 20 years, and continue to improve each year. I have seen a head on collision of a late 90's sedan -vs- a 2010 sedan. The owner of the newer vehicle walked away while the driver of the older vehicle was completely entrapped and eventually died.

Older used cars are definitely a better monetary value, but what is your life worth?

MrV
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April 17th, 2018 at 1:20:46 PM permalink
Buying new is no guarantee that you'll have problem-free motoring; that's why manufacturers have warranties, and why states have Lemon Laws.

I just resolved a Lemon Law case today for my son, who'd purchased a top of the line GMC Sierra 1500 4X4 pickup.

Come to find out the 8 speed automatic transmission had "issues" which four or more trips to the dealer could not resolve; it would lurch and clunk on certain shifts with overall poor drivability.

So keep that in mind: if you buy a new vehicle and it has problems that cannot be resolved you might be able to get all of your money back plus an award of attorney's fees.

Like the old loggers say (my apologies to the ladies): "If it's got t*ts or wheels it will cause you trouble."
"What, me worry?"
beachbumbabs
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April 17th, 2018 at 1:35:07 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Coming from someone who has been a first responder and seen many really terrible car accidents, buy the newest car you can afford.

Car manufacturers have made significant progress with vehicle safety over the last 20 years, and continue to improve each year. I have seen a head on collision of a late 90's sedan -vs- a 2010 sedan. The owner of the newer vehicle walked away while the driver of the older vehicle was completely entrapped and eventually died.

Older used cars are definitely a better monetary value, but what is your life worth?



Or a Volvo.

I bought my niece a 1994 Volvo from a semi-gearhead friend of mine in 2007 for $1500. It had ~80k miles on it, but ran great. She was 16 and just learning to drive, in a.rural area.

About 2 months in, she was exiting a divided highway onto a gravel road, left-turning across oncoming traffic. She gunned it rather than waiting, shot across, got into the deep, loose gravel on the shoulder still accelerating, and lost control.

She slammed through a wooden horse fence and into a big oak tree head-on, at maybe 40mph. Totaled the car, really nailed it in the front, got a mild bump on her head, was all. So I'm a believer. In most other cars, I think she would have been badly injured.

And thank God for.gearheads. Yeah, Face, you definitely qualify. :)
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DRich
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April 17th, 2018 at 1:40:35 PM permalink
I am a new car guy and I refuse to apologize for it. I get a new car every two to three years and I don't mind spending a little more for something that I use daily. I am cheap in most aspects of my life but I do tend to splurge on cars.

Caveat: I use a website called Leasehackr which is the advantage players website for car leases.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Hunterhill
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April 17th, 2018 at 2:28:33 PM permalink
I drive too many miles to consider leasing,about 30 to 40k per year.
Right now i have a 2008 honda with 326k on it.
I keep thinking its time for a new car but i just put new tires on it and did the brakes so i guess Ill keep it until the tires wear down:)
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
gamerfreak
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April 17th, 2018 at 2:46:15 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Caveat: I use a website called Leasehackr which is the advantage players website for car leases.


Sigh....and the spreadsheets begin.

Thanks for this. I am in the market and started to take a look at leases and they are not as terrible of a deal as I once thought.
GWAE
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April 17th, 2018 at 3:01:05 PM permalink
I have a 2001 Saturn ion with a body that looks brand new. About tlingit 200k miles. I only drive it 14 miles a day now so miles are moving slowly. I thought about replacing it but it runs perfect except for a terrible squeak in the front but like face said I have one of those noise reduction knobs that works wonders. My only other problem is I burn 1 quart of oil per 500 miles. I have some seal or a lifter that is bad and I blow pretty blueish smoke out the back after I am stopped at a light and hit the gas. Been like this for the last 25k miles so I think it's ok.. I think I am going to run it until I get stuck on the highway then I will leave it there.
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gamerfreak
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April 17th, 2018 at 4:31:01 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Or a Volvo.

I bought my niece a 1994 Volvo from a semi-gearhead friend of mine in 2007 for $1500. It had ~80k miles on it, but ran great. She was 16 and just learning to drive, in a.rural area.

About 2 months in, she was exiting a divided highway onto a gravel road, left-turning across oncoming traffic. She gunned it rather than waiting, shot across, got into the deep, loose gravel on the shoulder still accelerating, and lost control.

She slammed through a wooden horse fence and into a big oak tree head-on, at maybe 40mph. Totaled the car, really nailed it in the front, got a mild bump on her head, was all. So I'm a believer. In most other cars, I think she would have been badly injured.


I would not drive or put my family in anything older than 10-12 years.

At minimum something with side airbags, they save lives.

I probably have a more extreme opinion than most when it comes to car safety. It's not something to mess around with. I like how states like Virginia will impose jail time on speeders and wreckless drivers, even first offenses. More places should do that. Fines and points are a slap on the wrist.
billryan
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April 17th, 2018 at 4:36:44 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Sigh....and the spreadsheets begin.

Thanks for this. I am in the market and started to take a look at leases and they are not as terrible of a deal as I once thought.



I've been leasing since 2014. On my third car and will most likely not do it again. It's not a bad deal, but I think you can do better with selective buying. Might work better for you with the business write offs
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Face
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April 17th, 2018 at 4:52:43 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Coming from someone who has been a first responder and seen many really terrible car accidents, buy the newest car you can afford.



Coming from someone who's lived in actual poverty, a 5pt and a helmet will run ya $400 =p For real though, for the saving of used, you can buy a new face =p

OK, for real for real, gamer's on point. V's got less worries with his Volvo's, but in the 80's, YOU were the crumple zone. Won't deny it, couldn't if I tried. But when talking '18 v '14, or even '18 v '08, I just can't summon up enough worry to care. Seems good enough to know to take extra care cruising a classic, but otherwise, live your life. Then again, I race 80's, so perhaps I should be giving no advice.

And MrV, I'm with you on everything about tinkering and maintenance, but I wonder if you'd hold the same attitude if you had, you know, a modern ride. One dive into a '16 Kia Optima will have you longing for the days of Ferrari simplicity and utilitarianism =p

Drich, you're doing God's own work.

@Hunter, at that age and length, the free ride is certainly over. I think that Gen Civic / Accord had tranny issues that might arise, and you're probably due (or are in the middle of) a higher than most maintenance schedule with the bearings and rod ends and ball joints. But you know whatever you get you're gonna drive into the dirt immediately anyway, so is $15 - $25k worth a five year reprieve? Or do you dump $2k in mass incidentals and put aside 2 more for the big tranny issue incoming, and "make" $10-$20k over 5 years?
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Hunterhill
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April 17th, 2018 at 5:07:32 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Quote: gamerfreak

Coming from someone who has been a first responder and seen many really terrible car accidents, buy the newest car you can afford.



Coming from someone who's lived in actual poverty, a 5pt and a helmet will run ya $400 =p For real though, for the saving of used, you can buy a new face =p

OK, for real for real, gamer's on point. V's got less worries with his Volvo's, but in the 80's, YOU were the crumple zone. Won't deny it, couldn't if I tried. But when talking '18 v '14, or even '18 v '08, I just can't summon up enough worry to care. Seems good enough to know to take extra care cruising a classic, but otherwise, live your life. Then again, I race 80's, so perhaps I should be giving no advice.

And MrV, I'm with you on everything about tinkering and maintenance, but I wonder if you'd hold the same attitude if you had, you know, a modern ride. One dive into a '16 Kia Optima will have you longing for the days of Ferrari simplicity and utilitarianism =p

Drich, you're doing God's own work.

@Hunter, at that age and length, the free ride is certainly over. I think that Gen Civic / Accord had tranny issues that might arise, and you're probably due (or are in the middle of) a higher than most maintenance schedule with the bearings and rod ends and ball joints. But you know whatever you get you're gonna drive into the dirt immediately anyway, so is $15 - $25k worth a five year reprieve? Or do you dump $2k in mass incidentals and put aside 2 more for the big tranny issue incoming, and "make" $10-$20k over 5 years?


Well at this point if i can squeeze another 10 to 15k miles out of it I'll be happy.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
coilman
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April 18th, 2018 at 8:57:32 AM permalink
1983 first car a 71 Mustang Fastback
1985 a brand new 85 Mustang
1987 a 1984 Thunderbird to replace the stolen 85
1992 a 1988 Bonneville to replace the 84 tbird
1998 a 91 Cougar to replace the Bonneville
2007 a 1997 Ram 1500 to replace the 91
2017 gifted a 2006 Chrysler 300 from a buddy who I help out a lot

mileage put on each car
71 Fastback about 20,000 miles
85 Mustang about 30,000 miles in 18 months before it was stolen out of the driveway
84 Tbird about 100,000 miles
88 Bonneville about 110,000 miles
91 Cougar about 125,000 miles
97 Ram only 55,000 miles (working 7 yrs in oilpatch averaged only 3500 miles per yr) still have this 21 yr old truck runs great with only 135,000 miles on it
2006 Chrysler 300 was a gift since it had 150,000 miles on it put 5000 miles on it since I got it

roughly 450,000 miles of driving... total spent on all the above for purchases $ 42,000 Canadian ( $33,000 US at todays exchange rates)... the Tbird actually put about $3000 back into my pocket as it was that much cheaper than the payment I got from the insurance company for the stolen mustang

I did almost all my own repairs on the cars in the past 20 yrs... except a $1400 repair on truck(plenum gasket), $800 repair on Cougar ( head gasket) $600 on 300 ( timing belt water pump were about 35000 miles overdue to replace) $200 on exhaust on truck.... basically stuff I do not have all the tools to do myself

brakes, shocks , suspension parts, alternators, wheel bearings, door hinges tune ups water pumps power steering pumps. I do myself sometimes with the help of the buddy that gave me the 300 . The 300 needed a part replaced inside the transmission called the conductor plate....$134 part from Rockauto...$1400 from the dealer.... watch the youtube videos and away we go ...saved $1800 on that repair alone

oh one might ask how many miles on the cars when you bought them


Tbird had 28000 Km or 18000 miles
bonneville had 25000 miles but also had extended bumper to bumper warranty to 100,000 miles
Cougar which was 7 model yrs old when I purchased had ONLY 13,000 miles..church and to the doctors car
Ram was 10 yrs old with 77,000 miles.... paid $9000 owner gave me all the bills as he purchased it new for $33,000 plus added $3500 for cap mudflaps and running boards

all low mileage used cars so thanks to the folks that buy them NEW and drive them little before selling them for 25-50% of what there were new
onenickelmiracle
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April 18th, 2018 at 9:12:56 AM permalink
I like Mercury Grand Marquis. Very good, will last well over 200,000 miles. Older seniors have them until they can no longer Drive, that they're yours. Probably won't be many on the road soon, they stop making them almost 10 years ago.
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DanielHubbard
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May 27th, 2018 at 6:08:46 AM permalink
A noble cause, especially if the car is worth it
AZDuffman
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May 27th, 2018 at 6:18:40 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Please buy new. We with more sense than money need a well populated trade-in pool =p

I'm an end of the line guy so have a few cents to throw...

A big "pah" on Greasyjohn's naysaying. Just about everyone has a rattle knob on the dash. Mine reads "PWR VOL"; yours may be different but it will be similar. Just turn it to the right until the rattles go away. Guaranteed to work and 100% free.

Also a correction to Babs, warping due to overheating isn't a feature of Al but rather a feature of overheating. Fe will warp just as well, though (and perhaps your point) not as easily as Al. And while neither is a shadetree fix, either element can be repaired by way of milling the head. It requires CNC and a f#$% ton of labor hours, but it can be, and often is, still done.



+1 to the trade-in pool. Buy off lease. Let someone else take the hit. Learn to live with the occasional rattle. You will spend 100,000 less in your lifetime if you start in your 20s.

To the aluminum blocks, I think what BBB said was true of the early ones but less so nowadays. IMHO when they started with them they probably just designed them like iron blocks. Over the years they learn and make all the water flow in better ways to keep them cooler.

I am sad that this will probably be my last car without a touch screen control. I hate them. Too many things to break, complicates too many simple things.
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EvenBob
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May 27th, 2018 at 12:02:21 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I am sad that this will probably be my last car without a touch screen control. I hate them. Too many things to break, complicates too many simple things.



I rent a car every weekend to go
to the casinos. I've rented most
models of Chevy, Ford, Nissan,
Kia, VW, Honda, Hyundi, etc, in
the medium to compact range.

I'm always appalled at the whistles
and bells a lot of these cars have.
Just something else to go wrong
3 years down the road. There are
so many sensors, so many things
you can monitor on the dash, it
takes all the fun out of driving.

What drives me the most nuts is
the alarm that goes off when you
cross the white line on the right
or the centerline. Ding ding ding,
and a screen lights up that shows
which line you crossed. So damn
distracting and annoying.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrV
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May 27th, 2018 at 12:05:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I rent a car every weekend to go
to the casinos.



Have you considered buying a car instead?

Not a bad option, and you'll have wheels at your disposal 24/7.
"What, me worry?"
onenickelmiracle
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May 27th, 2018 at 12:32:10 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Have you considered buying a car instead?

Not a bad option, and you'll have wheels at your disposal 24/7.

He might be putting a lot of miles on in a weekend, it's not that foolish. Weekend rates are cheap. Not believing the roulette stories now though.
I am a robot.
billryan
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May 27th, 2018 at 1:33:53 PM permalink
I had my car several months before I became aware of the lane drift warning signal. Guess it comes down to driving habits.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
EvenBob
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May 27th, 2018 at 2:33:16 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Have you considered buying a car instead?



I own 2 cars, I'm not going to subject
them to all the mileage when I can
rent a car thru Costco and put all
the wear and tear on it instead of
my own. Plus it's a business deduction
on my taxes and it's fun to drive a
new car on out of town trips. No
rental this weekend, I don't go to
casinos on holiday weekends.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
GWAE
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May 27th, 2018 at 3:16:34 PM permalink
It's funny this thread was up when I got home. Took my car in this morning to get looked at. My 2003 Saturn ion with 200k miles is making a terrible squeaking noise when I hit bumps. It has been doing it for a while but I use face's (I think that is who mentioned it in here) method which is play the music louder and the noises go away. Anyways he gave me a list of front end things that it needs. He also mentioned the driver side floor is almost rusted through and the engine mounts are shot. It is going to cost me about 1200 to fix and inspection is up soon. Driving home I passed an auto body place and they have a Buick SUV out front. Window says new inspection and runs great. My guess is high mileage and maybe a salvage title. They want $1600 for it. Now I have a decision to make. Uggg
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FleaStiff
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May 27th, 2018 at 3:55:30 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I enjoy working on them, it exercises both mind and body.

You have the inclination, the skills, the tools and the space. So its fine for you.
I can't even keep my tires inflated properly or buy gas before the light starts winking at me.
Can't do car mechanics at gunpoint.
petroglyph
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May 27th, 2018 at 4:15:43 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

What drives me the most nuts is
the alarm that goes off when you
cross the white line on the right
or the centerline. Ding ding ding,
and a screen lights up that shows
which line you crossed. So damn
distracting and annoying.

How do you think that will work when there is snow, or snow ruts on the road?
coilman
coilman
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May 27th, 2018 at 4:31:37 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It's funny this thread was up when I got home. Took my car in this morning to get looked at. My 2003 Saturn ion with 200k miles is making a terrible squeaking noise when I hit bumps. It has been doing it for a while but I use face's (I think that is who mentioned it in here) method which is play the music louder and the noises go away. Anyways he gave me a list of front end things that it needs. He also mentioned the driver side floor is almost rusted through and the engine mounts are shot. It is going to cost me about 1200 to fix and inspection is up soon. Driving home I passed an auto body place and they have a Buick SUV out front. Window says new inspection and runs great. My guess is high mileage and maybe a salvage title. They want $1600 for it. Now I have a decision to make. Uggg



https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/saturn,2003,ion,2.2l+l4,1431614

parts on older cars sometimes at ROCKAUTO are amazingly cheap as they want to clear shelf space for newer vehicles
billryan
billryan
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May 27th, 2018 at 4:31:38 PM permalink
It works fine.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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onenickelmiracle
May 27th, 2018 at 5:06:01 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It's funny this thread was up when I got home. Took my car in this morning to get looked at. My 2003 Saturn ion with 200k miles is making a terrible squeaking noise when I hit bumps



The front end went the same way
on my old Saturn a few years ago.
Dump it, the price they gave you
is way low. I guarantee your sub
frame is shot, it's what holds the
engine and struts in place. You're
looking at $2000 at least and it
will never be right, it will nickel
and dime you to death.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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May 28th, 2018 at 2:50:26 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The front end went the same way
on my old Saturn a few years ago.
Dump it, the price they gave you
is way low. I guarantee your sub
frame is shot, it's what holds the
engine and struts in place. You're
looking at $2000 at least and it
will never be right, it will nickel
and dime you to death.

There should be an amusement park where you drive your jalopy off a cliff into a pit and see it burst into flames.
I am a robot.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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May 28th, 2018 at 11:53:46 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

There should be an amusement park where you drive your jalopy off a cliff into a pit and see it burst into flames.



Replacing the sub frame is hugely labor
intensive. At one point it takes 3 people
to do it and they better know what they're
doing because it's easy to screw up.
3 mechanics at $75 an hour if you're lucky,
really adds up fast.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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May 28th, 2018 at 6:02:33 PM permalink
I have a early 2000’s Toyota SUV with almost 200k miles and it’s still really nice, but the AC system has a leak in an area that would require removing the dashboard to repair, but the cost of that labor would be more than the vehicle is worth.

Sucks cause I still really like the car and it’s mechanically and cosmetically in great shape for its mileage/age.
ECoaster
ECoaster
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May 29th, 2018 at 4:54:46 AM permalink
It's worth mentioning that over the past 5 years, many new cars have been equipped with some pretty amazing and useful high-tech safety features. These days, you can even find them on some 2018 models with sticker prices under $25K. A late model used car may also have some of these things. They add to the value and benefit of having a newer car beyond a strict dollar / cost analysis for many people.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
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May 29th, 2018 at 5:03:23 AM permalink
Quote: ECoaster

It's worth mentioning that over the past 5 years, many new cars have been equipped with some pretty amazing and useful high-tech safety features. These days, you can even find them on some 2018 models with sticker prices under $25K. A late model used car may also have some of these things. They add to the value and benefit of having a newer car beyond a strict dollar / cost analysis for many people.



Safety features are a funny thing. I have heard of people near scared to death to get a car without airbags back in the day. Once a female co-worker my age and I were discussing how we did not care about them and a younger woman chimed in, "ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS?!"

IMHO, boomers and millennials seem to go more for it while Gen X it is "just nice to have."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
EvenBob
EvenBob
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May 29th, 2018 at 11:50:42 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Safety features are a funny thing. I have heard of people near scared to death to get a car without airbags



On Seinfeld's show about picking up
people in old cars and getting coffee,
some of the stars are nervous about
riding in a car with no airbags. Real
nervous.

Seinfeld will say something like, 'Until
today, how often has an airbag saved
your life."

They usually shut up about it after that.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Face
Administrator
Face
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May 29th, 2018 at 1:27:01 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It's funny this thread was up when I got home. Took my car in this morning to get looked at. My 2003 Saturn ion with 200k miles is making a terrible squeaking noise when I hit bumps. It has been doing it for a while but I use face's (I think that is who mentioned it in here) method which is play the music louder and the noises go away. Anyways he gave me a list of front end things that it needs. He also mentioned the driver side floor is almost rusted through and the engine mounts are shot. It is going to cost me about 1200 to fix and inspection is up soon. Driving home I passed an auto body place and they have a Buick SUV out front. Window says new inspection and runs great. My guess is high mileage and maybe a salvage title. They want $1600 for it. Now I have a decision to make. Uggg



Aye, that was me. A disclaimer, though - I condone very much this technique when you know what's wrong. I wouldn't advise it straight out of hand, because 1) it might be an easy / cheap fix that goes exponentially worse with time, or 2) it might be a serious safety issue. An unbalanced tire, damaged bearings, and loose lug nuts all sound and feel the same. One, though, is just annoying. The other two are counting down the days (hours, minutes) until they try real hard to kill you, everyone with you, and anyone around you. Know first. Jam Creedence when applicable.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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May 29th, 2018 at 2:06:16 PM permalink
Quote: Face

An unbalanced tire, damaged bearings, and loose lug nuts all sound and feel the same. One, though, is just annoying. The other two are counting down the days (hours, minutes) until they try real hard to kill you, everyone with you, and anyone around you. Know first. Jam Creedence when applicable.

Like some guy headed down the highway without trailer brakes. : )
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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RogerKint
July 1st, 2018 at 10:55:05 PM permalink
Aren't airbags just meant for people not wearing seat belts? Do they do anything besides cost more money to repair a car after a wreck?
I am a robot.
Gabes22
Gabes22
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July 2nd, 2018 at 6:58:30 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Aren't airbags just meant for people not wearing seat belts? Do they do anything besides cost more money to repair a car after a wreck?



No, even if you are wearing a seatbelt, your head can still hit the wheel, dash or windshield. Cars these days have driver knee airbags so their knees don't jostle up into the steering column. Cars today have seat airbags, keeping you in a proper position for the driver or passenger airbag to work most effectively. Cars today also have side curtain airbags which stay inflated long after deployment to protect your head from hitting the asphalt in a rollover in which your windows are blown out.

Many cars today are designed to be total losses after a significant wreck and while the cost or resetting an airbag is part of it, that is obviously not the full story. Stuff like the crumple zones in the hood are designed to have points in which the hood will bend and absorb the brunt of the impact so you do not feel it as much in the cabin. In major collisions, the engine is designed to fall off of its track and drop down to the road, thus preventing an 800 lb engine coming into the cabin of the vehicle. Even things you don't think about like the placement of the spare tire allows an extra buffer from a car rear ending you, to your kids in the back seat.

Some of the more modern safety technology like automatic emergency braking I have seen fail too often at closed track events to rely on them.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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July 2nd, 2018 at 9:37:49 AM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

No, even if you are wearing a seatbelt, your head can still hit the wheel, dash or windshield. Cars these days have driver knee airbags so their knees don't jostle up into the steering column. Cars today have seat airbags, keeping you in a proper position for the driver or passenger airbag to work most effectively. Cars today also have side curtain airbags which stay inflated long after deployment to protect your head from hitting the asphalt in a rollover in which your windows are blown out.

Many cars today are designed to be total losses after a significant wreck and while the cost or resetting an airbag is part of it, that is obviously not the full story. Stuff like the crumple zones in the hood are designed to have points in which the hood will bend and absorb the brunt of the impact so you do not feel it as much in the cabin. In major collisions, the engine is designed to fall off of its track and drop down to the road, thus preventing an 800 lb engine coming into the cabin of the vehicle. Even things you don't think about like the placement of the spare tire allows an extra buffer from a car rear ending you, to your kids in the back seat.

Some of the more modern safety technology like automatic emergency braking I have seen fail too often at closed track events to rely on them.

ok thanks
I am a robot.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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July 2nd, 2018 at 2:32:06 PM permalink
I recall one "Car Talk" episode where Click and Clack Tappet had to explain to a young bride that her new hubby would NEVER be finished repairing that car; it was his hobby.

So for some people it is indeed worth it to through time and money into a foolish enterprise; its a way to drink beer, wield a wrench and escape from estrogen and "honeydo"s for awhile.

Now y'all know I'm marooned in Florida by ill-health and poverty and Florida is not a state to be in when your vehicle does not have airconditioning. The quote was something like 800.00 for a/c repair and the vehicle is most definitely on its last legs and is always over heating. The only thing that really works on it is the Low Coolant lamp. Drips coolant and evaporates the oil.

Chevy Venture. 2000. 2002? Gonna have to save pennies. Did find a place that sells Irma damaged vehicles for six hundred dollars total. Guarantee lasts five hundred feet only. I don't like that but may have to do it.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
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July 3rd, 2018 at 10:19:34 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Aren't airbags just meant for people not wearing seat belts? Do they do anything besides cost more money to repair a car after a wreck?



The USA is (or at least used to be) the only market where air bags had to be effective if someone was not wearing a seat belt. This meant that they had to deploy with far more force. causing other issues. IITC it was about afraid of lawsuits from unbelted people.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
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