Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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January 6th, 2018 at 9:47:25 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Mexico will not pay for the wall. Why would they?

Second, providing social programs brings people out of poverty and increases safety and happiness. If you spend money, for example, on after-school programs and take someone out of the criminal justice system, that person becomes a valuable part of society instead of jail-ridden scum. The same is true for other programs that lend a helping hand that makes the person productive later in life. It's an investment with a measured return. Same goes for healthcare.

Third, America needs legal immigration for skilled workers and for work that Americans won't do (picking grapes, being your maid, and other crappy jobs). I am a Canadian working in the United States with a valid work Visa. I pay taxes, contribute to social security and Medicare, and besides my contributions to this forum, have been a productive part of America as a visitor. The US is virtually at full employment and unless you plan on raising the retirement age again (maybe necessary to afford Social Security) or encourage people to have children you need immigration for the nation to have economic growth.

Walls are symbolic instruments for simpletons. An immigration policy needs to include an approach that dissuades illegal immigration and yet allows people to come to America to live the American dream, whatever that is.



They would if we threaten tariffs and cuting all foreign and medical aid. Or we can simply tax all money sent there.

As for social programs, I agree with most of those statements, and I do not think many would argue, I and most on my side would only say none of those benefits should go to illegals, I do not care how many anchors they have.....

You say we need legal immigration for both skilled and unskilled labor. We do not. For one thing this argument is racist of itself why should there be "some jobs Americans should not have to do". If the positions are really that hard, employers will be forced to keep raising wages and offers until an American does take the job. As for jobs in America where we need more workers of a certain skill, that is a fair statement. Most countries, especially countries with extremely small amounts of room for immigrants will only take you (regardless of what country you are from) if you are in possession of a skill the country needs or will be beneficial to the economy (IE You have a lot of money)..... Most countries do not let people wander in and get free housing and collect welfare.......
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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January 6th, 2018 at 10:04:14 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

They would if we threaten tariffs and cuting all foreign and medical aid. Or we can simply tax all money sent there.

As for social programs, I agree with most of those statements, and I do not think many would argue, I and most on my side would only say none of those benefits should go to illegals, I do not care how many anchors they have.....

You say we need legal immigration for both skilled and unskilled labor. We do not. For one thing this argument is racist of itself why should there be "some jobs Americans should not have to do". If the positions are really that hard, employers will be forced to keep raising wages and offers until an American does take the job. As for jobs in America where we need more workers of a certain skill, that is a fair statement. Most countries, especially countries with extremely small amounts of room for immigrants will only take you (regardless of what country you are from) if you are in possession of a skill the country needs or will be beneficial to the economy (IE You have a lot of money)..... Most countries do not let people wander in and get free housing and collect welfare.......



Why do so many people think applying for welfare is really simple and easy?

I personally know people who were born here who were turned away. They make you show lots of identification and then make you work for your benefits

Seems a lot of people have serious misconceptions. They just imagine free money is being handed out with a blindfold on or something
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Gandler
Gandler
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January 6th, 2018 at 10:16:50 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Why do so many people think applying for welfare is really simple and easy?

I personally know people who were born here who were turned away. They make you show lots of identification and then make you work for your benefits

Seems a lot of people have serious misconceptions. They just imagine free money is being handed out with a blindfold on or something



It is easier for some people than others. Remember, some states now issue Driver's License and State IDs to Illegals. It has become harder in recent years, but one reason it is so hard for real citizens is because of people abusing the system back when there was virtually no checks. But, an even bigger money drain is Education, Emergency Rooms, etc...... Again people only come here if they think they are going to an improved life, if you make it so there is zero chance of government benefits, zero change of a legal and a high chance of a federal prison sentence, we would see far fewer.


Also, what I wanted to post in that post but forgot, is we need to legalize Marijuana, and decriminalize most drugs, and that would end the vast numbers that come here to sell drugs....
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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Thanks for this post from:
RogerKint
January 6th, 2018 at 10:34:19 PM permalink
Concur with the dumb "jobs Americans won't do" trope.

Maybe they won't be shorter order cooks or maids for $4/hr and no labor laws. In fact, they can't because it's illegal.

For $18 or $20? You bet your ass they would.

It's weird so many liberals cheer on wage suppression and undermining of labor laws. And the destruction of public education.

But that's what happens when you listen to people like the Clintons.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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January 6th, 2018 at 11:34:58 PM permalink
Also, a way to make the Trump Wall even more profitable would be to lease out sections for malls and tourist traps. And, have towers with viewing areas as a national monument, kind of like the Great Wall of China. It should also be built by people in Federal for illegal immigration.
WBGamble
WBGamble
Joined: Jul 10, 2014
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January 6th, 2018 at 11:38:45 PM permalink
All we need to do is take away these ludicrous benefits for illegals and the issue will correct itself.
WBGamble
WBGamble
Joined: Jul 10, 2014
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January 6th, 2018 at 11:44:32 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Why do so many people think applying for welfare is really simple and easy?

I personally know people who were born here who were turned away. They make you show lots of identification and then make you work for your benefits

Seems a lot of people have serious misconceptions. They just imagine free money is being handed out with a blindfold on or something



Tell them to apply in Massachusetts/ California/ Connecticut and check the boxes. They will want for nothing. Different states do have VERY different rules. Don't assume everywhere is run the way you're familiar with. It's possible you have some misconceptions.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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January 7th, 2018 at 4:03:22 AM permalink
Quote: WBGamble

Tell them to apply in Massachusetts/ California/ Connecticut and check the boxes. They will want for nothing. Different states do have VERY different rules. Don't assume everywhere is run the way you're familiar with. It's possible you have some misconceptions.



They will "want for nothing"?

Seriously i doubt anyone on public assistance (and only public assistance not talking about scammers) who will say they receive so much that they "want for nothing"

Seems like its you who have misconceptions
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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January 7th, 2018 at 4:11:54 AM permalink
Quote: WBGamble

Tell them to apply in Massachusetts/ California/ Connecticut and check the boxes. They will want for nothing. Different states do have VERY different rules. Don't assume everywhere is run the way you're familiar with. It's possible you have some misconceptions.



So here is a perfect example of disconnect

Massachusetts was your first state suggestion for people to easily apply for welfare?

https://www.sapling.com/8500863/welfare-eligibility-massachusetts

Read these requirements. They are as stringent as anywhere

I dont even need to look up the other states. The BS is already apparent

EDIT: if you are an illegal alien you do not qualify for benefits in Massachusetts. Go figure!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
speedycrap
speedycrap
Joined: Oct 13, 2013
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January 7th, 2018 at 4:51:04 AM permalink
Welfare life is not a good life. Anytime the government is providing you. You are not living a good life. Government assistance is designed to let you get by and survive.
Looking at government pension and supplement. Is it a good life with that. I guess not.
China's Great Wall is just a symbol now. It does not serve any practical purpose at all. So use it as a tourist attraction is fine.
I read some article long time ago claiming A DOLLAR YOU SPEND ON EDUCATION TODAY WILL SAVE YOU 10 DOLLARS ON PRISON TOMORROW.
Preventive medicine provides a better life and save a lot of money for the government.
Confrontation does not make a country better. Living a good life within a wall is just another form of prison life.

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