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bobbartop
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November 17th, 2017 at 12:17:06 PM permalink
This don't mean I'm turning democrat, they're still pukes. But F**K this guy. How can he call himself a man? Cuz he ain't one.

'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 12:47:57 PM permalink
What?
TigerWu
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November 17th, 2017 at 12:58:32 PM permalink
The logic behind this big game hunting is that, believe it or not, in some areas these animals are overpopulated, and they need to be culled to ensure the overall survival of the population. Also, apparently there are some members of the population that are a danger to the others. For example, there may be an elephant who is overly aggressive and is attacking or killing other members of his herd for no reason. The hunting is supposed to be highly regulated by the local authorities. The thing that Trump overturned has nothing to do with the actual hunting as far as I know. It only allows the hunters to bring parts of the animal back with them. They could still hunt under Obama, they just couldn't bring back trophies.

I'm not saying I agree with any of that, but those are the facts to my understanding. Even if big game hunting is environmentally necessary, I still wouldn't pose for a picture holding up a severed elephant tail. That's just called being a scumbag.
rxwine
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:05:41 PM permalink
Two questions occur to me.

1. Aren't there plenty of other animals who really need shooting for better or at least similar reasons? (NYC rats seem like a good choice for Trumps)

2. So, they are man enough to shoot elephants, but not man enough to put a condom on them elephants to prevent overpopulation?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
FleaStiff
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:16:52 PM permalink
Heck, some "hunters'' pose next to a tame, declawed panther that was too old to perform in a circus anymore and the "hunter" shot him in the cage as the defenseless cat cowered in the corner.
FleaStiff
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:16:53 PM permalink
Who was that famous author who was such a hunter? Ernest Hemingway?
odiousgambit
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:24:27 PM permalink
2 cents

*African buffalo are considered dangerous to hunt as you have to go after any you wound and they can ambush you. We don't know if dude here was willing to expose himself to that.

*cutting off the tail is probably traditional

*allowing the legal hunting of wild game ironically preserves them - it provides the money to stop the poaching

*allowing the importation of the ivory seems like a horrible idea, but every article that pops up I've seen is completely anti-hunting or anti-Trump or both and I haven't looked at them.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mcallister3200
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:49:07 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

The logic behind this big game hunting is that, believe it or not, in some areas these animals are overpopulated, and they need to be culled to ensure the overall survival of the population. Also, apparently there are some members of the population that are a danger to the others. For example, there may be an elephant who is overly aggressive and is attacking or killing other members of his herd for no reason. The hunting is supposed to be highly regulated by the local authorities. .



In Africa currently some governments are paying contractors to kill a not insignificant number of lions due to the decline of hunting. Huge backlash after a dentist from MN shot a well known lion I don't believe he was supposed to, now the hunting numbers have dropped off as people are scared to do so. Scientists more or less know the healthy population numbers in these ecosystems, why we need more deer hunters as much of the increase in Lyme disease has been attributed to an overpopulation of deer. You have a choice, you can either pay someone to control the numbers or have hunters pay you to do so.

Now I'm still gonna say the trump one is some inner ego thing thinks helps him be his own man, because they know they have no chance to be a self made man without going to the extreme of denouncing family.
rxwine
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:55:38 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

*allowing the importation of the ivory seems like a horrible idea



As the items made from it are attractive, importing it seems likely to increase the demand -- therefore, it will probably increase illegal poaching.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 1:57:10 PM permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU
gamerfreak
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November 17th, 2017 at 2:28:28 PM permalink
Quote: RS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU


Lol so now you wanna justify something with a government program?
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 3:05:09 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: RS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU


Lol so now you wanna justify something with a government program?


I watched the video months ago, so forgive me if I'm wrong here, but pretty sure the program works because people pay voluntarily for license to hunt and tags for certain animals....it's not based on taxes.
billryan
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November 17th, 2017 at 4:49:27 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

The logic behind this big game hunting is that, believe it or not, in some areas these animals are overpopulated, and they need to be culled to ensure the overall survival of the population. Also, apparently there are some members of the population that are a danger to the others. For example, there may be an elephant who is overly aggressive and is attacking or killing other members of his herd for no reason. The hunting is supposed to be highly regulated by the local authorities. The thing that Trump overturned has nothing to do with the actual hunting as far as I know. It only allows the hunters to bring parts of the animal back with them. They could still hunt under Obama, they just couldn't bring back trophies.

I'm not saying I agree with any of that, but those are the facts to my understanding. Even if big game hunting is environmentally necessary, I still wouldn't pose for a picture holding up a severed elephant tail. That's just called being a scumbag.



Obama can't stop people from going overseas and making an ass of themselves. All he could do was stop them from bringing in trophy's.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
ams288
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November 17th, 2017 at 4:53:08 PM permalink
WHAT KIND OF "MAN" SHOOTS A LION OR ELEPHANT?

One with a tiny tiny penis.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
odiousgambit
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November 17th, 2017 at 4:58:24 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

As the items made from it are attractive, importing it seems likely to increase the demand -- therefore, it will probably increase illegal poaching.



I've been thinking about that. What must be avoided is the creation of a market for animal parts, or I should say we should do what we can to shut down a market that probably can't be eliminated. On the other hand, hunters should be able to keep their trophies, and import them. It's not the same thing; a hunter can't legally sell venison he obtains, or any parts of the deer I believe, because we don't want a market to exist in that either. Yet a hunter can keep the skin etc and have a taxidermist mount it.

I did find one link that is not so biased,

https://www.snopes.com/elephant-trophy-import-ban-lifted/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SOOPOO
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November 17th, 2017 at 5:06:43 PM permalink
Having been on a photo only safari in Kenya and Tanzania, there would have been no sport in killing as many Lions, Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, etc.... as bullets you'd be provided. I hate the thought of a coward shooting these animals. But I defer to the country they are in to either allow or not.....
gamerfreak
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November 17th, 2017 at 5:32:51 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: RS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU


Lol so now you wanna justify something with a government program?


I watched the video months ago, so forgive me if I'm wrong here, but pretty sure the program works because people pay voluntarily for license to hunt and tags for certain animals....it's not based on taxes.


The gist of the video is that big game hunters pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whatever government for a hunting license, and that money is supposedly put towards conservation efforts for those endangered animals. But I’m sure there’s no corruption in 3rd world African governments, right??

It’s a moot point either way. The restrictions on these trophies under Obama had an exemption for hunters that acquired those government sanctioned licenses. Trump took away the ban all together. So your video was actually arguing in favor of Obama’s endangered species act.
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 5:44:08 PM permalink
I don't really care about the corruption from the government in third world countries when it comes to hunting licenses, tags, and/or protecting the animals, or lack thereof. That's like me caring about the judges' corruption at some elementary underwater-basket weaving competition. Nor do I care about (nor know anything about) Obama's anti-hunting-trophy-importation act. Did that come before or after that dentist killed Tito The Tiger or whatever that big controversy was about? (I honestly don't know, but my suspicion....)

What about the video supports Obama's animal-care-act? That seems extremely odd, unless there's much more to the act than it seems at the surface.
MaxPen
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November 17th, 2017 at 6:12:21 PM permalink
Looks like he realizes a mistake may be getting made.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/931685146415255552
billryan
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November 17th, 2017 at 6:26:14 PM permalink
What a novel idea. Going through a study before making a decision. Imagine if this catches on?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 6:50:19 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Looks like he realizes a mistake may be getting made.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/931685146415255552


#DumpTrump
#NotMyPresident
#LoveTrumpsHate
beachmonkey
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November 17th, 2017 at 7:14:08 PM permalink
Maybe they should take a page from the black market body parts book in third world countries. As a trophy hunter tourist you shoot an animal, you have to take a body part from that dead animal and you or a member of your immediate family Must get that body part exchanged for one of your own.
Then on return to own country you must remove said new body part and eat it with in 7 days of entering the home country. You may replace the now removed new body part with any body part from a dead rat of 2weeks and insert into your own body
Simple and effective solution, a win win for all involved
Kind regards
AxelWolf
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November 17th, 2017 at 7:38:35 PM permalink
Quote: RS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU

Im not sure who would want to shoot elephant for fun, status or bragging rights (I think it's horrible). I tend to believe trophy hunters do help fund conversation. I'm sure there's a better way. I have a feeling certain people don't want to find a better way because this way lines their pockets.

P.S. Wasn't it you that said Adam Ruins Everything was full of inaccuracies, embellishments and falsehoods(not in those exact words, but you get the point.)
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MaxPen
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November 17th, 2017 at 7:48:51 PM permalink
Elephants are highly cognitive. They are extremely intelligent creatures. I would not be able to hunt one.
RS
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November 17th, 2017 at 8:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: RS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA8i5S0YMU

Im not sure who would want to shoot elephant for fun, status or bragging rights (I think it's horrible). I tend to believe trophy hunters do help fund conversation. I'm sure there's a better way. I have a feeling certain people don't want to find a better way because this way lines their pockets.

P.S. Wasn't it you that said Adam Ruins Everything was full of inaccuracies, embellishments and falsehoods(not in those exact words, but you get the point.)


I don't remember saying that specifically, but I remember saying I don't like him or his show. At that point I had probably only seen a few of them. Although, since then, I've watched more of his episodes and grown slightly fond of the series (although I still don't like him.....or Guy Fieri).
AxelWolf
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November 17th, 2017 at 8:29:48 PM permalink
Quote: RS

(although I still don't like him.....or Guy Fieri).

It's ok, I get it, they are just not your type.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
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November 18th, 2017 at 8:14:35 AM permalink
I think it is terrible all the elephants killed, because they're so magnificent. I think they're going to become mythical, one day people will think they never existed, only parts of our imagination like unicorns. If only we could create man-made tusks, they could seize all the ivory, and replace the tusks with prosthetics. They're shot for economics, not sure how many Americans would resist the same temptation if it were on our soil.
I am a robot.
TigerWu
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November 18th, 2017 at 8:33:21 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

If only we could create man-made tusks, they could seize all the ivory, and replace the tusks with prosthetics.



Someone DID invent synthetic Rhino horns that are indistinguishable from real ones. The plan was to flood the market with fake horns, thereby making the real ones worthless. I don't know how well that plan worked or even if it's still going on.

Also, increasing numbers of elephants are being born without tusks as a result of poachers killing all the elephants with "good tusk genes."
ThatDonGuy
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November 18th, 2017 at 9:30:54 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Someone DID invent synthetic Rhino horns that are indistinguishable from real ones. The plan was to flood the market with fake horns, thereby making the real ones worthless. I don't know how well that plan worked or even if it's still going on.


According to the BBC, the company that is developing then says the first prototype should be ready by the end of 2018. However, animal protectors are already calling for a ban on "artificial ivory," claiming that it will just lead to more people wanting the real thing, and, if I heard right, most of the rhino horns aren't taken for monetary value, but for quack science cures (apparently, "powdered rhino horn cures cancer" is a somewhat popular belief in Vietnam, and I have heard similar claims about Africa and AIDS).
mcallister3200
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November 18th, 2017 at 11:02:59 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

. I tend to believe trophy hunters do help fund conversation.



I think that is alcohol not trophy hunters.
onenickelmiracle
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November 18th, 2017 at 7:48:43 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Someone DID invent synthetic Rhino horns that are indistinguishable from real ones. The plan was to flood the market with fake horns, thereby making the real ones worthless. I don't know how well that plan worked or even if it's still going on.

Also, increasing numbers of elephants are being born without tusks as a result of poachers killing all the elephants with "good tusk genes."

Yeah my plan would be more complicated. Basically drug every elephant, cut tusk, replace it. We're not there technologically I know. If we were, we'd have a space elevator.

You're right about the adaptation, I forgot about it. I also doubt it will be enough.
I am a robot.
AxelWolf
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November 18th, 2017 at 11:14:47 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

The gist of the video is that big game hunters pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whatever government for a hunting license, and that money is supposedly put towards conservation efforts for those endangered animals. But I’m sure there’s no corruption in 3rd world African governments, right??

It’s a moot point either way. The restrictions on these trophies under Obama had an exemption for hunters that acquired those government sanctioned licenses. Trump took away the ban all together. So your video was actually arguing in favor of Obama’s endangered species act.

There are many people who think the Obama animal trophy ban somehow pertained to all trophy hunting of elephants, and he is some wonderful aminal savor for doing so. I believe he only banned the importing of animal trophies form 2 places, Zimbobway and Zambia. That didn't stop anyone from being able to go there to kill and mutilate elephants and take pictures. Obama never said he was against Trophy hunting.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bobbartop
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November 19th, 2017 at 8:12:04 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Having been on a photo only safari in Kenya and Tanzania, there would have been no sport in killing as many Lions, Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, etc.... as bullets you'd be provided. I hate the thought of a coward shooting these animals. But I defer to the country they are in to either allow or not.....




Of course, the recent ruling party and Mugabi's people were hard-core Soviet-backed communists who murdered white farmers and turned a once prosperous nation into an economic basket case, in 1979 during the Carter Administration, if I recall. Silly of me to think of these folks as being kind to Cecil out of the goodness of their hearts. Mugabi IS an animal.

Yesterday I was at a wild life refuge in California, on a personal tour. I was surprised to be led into a large pen, when I opened the door, I was met by three deer, stood, I guess, up to about my chin. Big brown eyes, they came to me like pet cats, asking me, "Who are you? What is your name? Whatcha doing?" I told them I am Bob Bartop, and that they are the cutest things I have ever seen. They were sweet, inquisitive, just like cats, so adorable. I guess they had been surrendered from being someone's pets. Omg, ADORABLE!!! I am not against hunting, for food, per se, but how can one do it? HOW CAN ONE DO IT? My one time neighbor used to go on hunting trips and come back with dressed elk or deer and keep the steaks in a garage refrige box. He'd ask me if I wanted some meat, uh, no thanks, if I do I'll go to Taco Bell.

I want to say killing a deer for food is different than killing a lion for "sport". (bullshit phony sport, it ain't no sport, that's a bunch of crap). But to me, it's pretty much the same. I am pro-gun, pro-NRA, but as Morrissey would say, meat is murder. I don't care who I offend. If you get off on killing animals, you're an asshole in my book, no matter what political views you hold.

And DON'T get me started on the veal industry. Don't get me started. Trump should do something about THAT!!! Wasn't there a "boycott thread" recently? Add veal to it. Thanks.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
RS
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November 19th, 2017 at 8:51:09 AM permalink
What's......what's wrong with veal?
billryan
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November 19th, 2017 at 9:00:20 AM permalink
It's the other white meat
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
bobbartop
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November 19th, 2017 at 9:11:51 AM permalink
Quote: RS

What's......what's wrong with veal?



It's barbaric. It's torture. It's inhuman. And for what? Money? Man's extravagance and indulgence?

Need I say more?

If you're not convinced, view it in person. Go to a farm and see it live, with your own eyes. In a little crate, where it can barely move. If it doesn't bring tears to your eyes and cause one's heart to break, then one does not have no heart. That's all I can say.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
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November 19th, 2017 at 9:20:56 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Two questions occur to me.

1. Aren't there plenty of other animals who really need shooting for better or at least similar reasons? (NYC rats seem like a good choice for Trumps)

2. So, they are man enough to shoot elephants, but not man enough to put a condom on them elephants to prevent overpopulation?



Mod edit: I have no idea what this has to do with the topic or comment, but language NSFW.


Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Nov 19, 2017
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
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Thanked by
beachbumbabs
November 21st, 2017 at 7:04:35 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop



Mod edit: I have no idea what this has to do with the topic or comment, but language NSFW.




I guess I could have added "NSFW". Better yet, I could have not posted the video. I remembered this scene, which I thought a powerful performance by Jon Voight, where the girl, Rebecca De Mornay, called Voight's character "an animal". Voight's response? "WORSE. HUMAN!"

It's a pretty good movie, from 1985. I thought Jon Voight's performance was excellent, powerful, as it usually is.

Too late for me to delete the post. If someone with that authority wants to delete it, it won't hurt my feelings. I'm lucky I didn't get thrown in the cooler for a few days. Thx.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
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November 21st, 2017 at 7:12:37 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Rebecca De Mornay,




By the way, I didn't make the connection, Rebecca De Mornay was in Risky Business with Tom Cruise. Year? 1983!!! Omg. I can't believe it, 35 years ago, where has the time gone? In 1983, they hadn't even opened the Bicycle Club in Los Angeles yet. Holdem was not yet legal in California. My hair, was still BROWN. I didn't even have a computer. What's a computer?
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
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