MrV
MrV
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October 10th, 2017 at 7:01:29 PM permalink
In the midst of an email to me about getting together to work on his Benz this weekend, a Vietnam vet / lawyer buddy of mine sent me a classic email, excerpted below.

" I have to stand in non-take-a-knee protest on Sunday or during any other NFL political forum, oh I mean a conference game. Of course, not to disrespect the players' right to make millions of dollars for what has become more entertainment than sport; to perform no meaningful contribution or solution to the problem they perceive and protest; to disparage the country's flag and the thousands of law enforcement offices; and their refusal to exercise their other constitutional right to surrender their passports and select some other county to live in."

Indeed.
"What, me worry?"
Mission146
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Mission146
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October 10th, 2017 at 7:22:10 PM permalink
I think it's kind of important to note that SOME (not all) of the law enforcement officers' treatment of SOME (not all) people is the very thing that the very first such protester (CKaep) was protesting.

Furthermore, the E-Mail assumes that these players are unanimously not doing anything off of the field to effectuate change, so I'm glad that guy has met each individual player to actually protest to know that for sure.

I mean, if people want to discuss whether or not that means of protest, in and of itself, or whether it is being conducted in the proper forum is appropriate, then that's obviously a fine discussion. When we get into questioning individual motives of people to whom we have never individually spoken, or making assumptions about what said individuals do off of the field and out of the context of the game, then we are definitely on shaky ground.

Is it appropriate not to stand for the anthem? My answer is it depends on the employer since the person either standing or kneeling is acting as an employee in his/her place of employment. If the employer says it's fine, then it's fine. If the employer says that is not acceptable on company time, then it is not acceptable. I believe that once the employer of the individual has spoken as to the matter, then we are in no position to judge the person if he/she has been given permission.
Vultures can't be choosers.
terapined
terapined
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October 10th, 2017 at 7:47:37 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

; to perform no meaningful contribution or solution to the problem they perceive and protest; .


Actually these athletes do a lot to help the communities they grew up in

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/04/20/colin-kaepernick-donations/100699392/

The organizations receiving donations in March included:
Life After Hate, Inc. Their stated goal is working with people to leave a "life of hate" and to work with organizations who are dealing with racism and intolerance.
Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle, located in Baltimore. The group works to improve the living conditions of African-Americans in the region.
Silence is Violence, based in New Orleans. Its goal is creating a "safe and equitable New Orleans."
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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October 10th, 2017 at 7:54:41 PM permalink
So those who donít pledge their allegiance to a symbol should forfeit their citizenship? That doesnít sound like America to me. Not an America that Iíd want to live in.
MrV
MrV
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October 10th, 2017 at 8:27:52 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Not an America that Iíd want to live in.



So get out.

I'll kick in ten bucks for your air fare.

America: love it or leave it.

Still holds true, at least to me and my disabled Vietnam vet buddy.

Standing for the anthem
"What, me worry?"
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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October 10th, 2017 at 8:29:45 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

America: love it or leave it.


Thatís not how this freedom thing works.
rxwine
rxwine
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October 10th, 2017 at 8:48:03 PM permalink
It's a peaceful protest in a free country.

Thought that's what they were fighting for.

Didn't think they were fighting to make sure people stand during the anthem.

Of course, fascist actually do care more about maintaining forced symbolism and punishing those who veer from it.
prisoner of gravity
MrV
MrV
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Thanks for this post from:
RSMaxPen
October 10th, 2017 at 10:16:18 PM permalink
Some things in life are fundamental.

One of them is loyalty to one's country of origin.

That is what standing for the anthem and saluting the flag stands for: a promise to be loyal to one's country.

To be willing to die for it, and to respect and pay homage to those who have given their lives for the cause.

The pampered little attention whores who refuse to stand for the anthem are only on the playing field for one purpose: our entertainment.

If I wanted to see a bunch of goons play at politics and political change I'd go watch an antifa demonstration down town: same nonsense.

I'd consign those who refuse to stand for the anthem to the same dung heap I once cast Vietnam draft dodgers.
"What, me worry?"
Doc
Doc 
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October 10th, 2017 at 10:48:25 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Is it appropriate not to stand for the anthem?


I am reminded of an opportunity I had while I was in Cyprus back in 1982. I attended a gymnastics exhibition performed by members of the Cypriot national team and the Russian national team that was visiting. The national anthems of both countries were played, and I stood for both, to show respect for both the athletes and their respective countries. It doesn't have to be my own country for me to show respect and courtesy.

And yes, I stand (and salute) when the our national anthem is played at sporting events that I attend. (Out of respect, I don't sing along; with my voice, that could be offensive.)
Paradigm
Paradigm
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October 10th, 2017 at 10:52:10 PM permalink
I always follow the money when it comes to commitment...you can tell a lot about a man/woman by looking at his/her checkbook register!

So CKaep gets a passing grade in my book...I may not like the way he protests, but at least he is putting his $$ where his mouth is and that says alot about his convictions.

The problem is, he is the exception! If these NFL'ers, white or black, really gave a $h!t about the cause and problems faced by poor and oppressed communities of color, wouldn't you think that instead locking arms, those NFL players could take up a 5% collection of salaries from their "unified" locker rooms and really effect change? Almost every NFL Team has over $150M in salary spread around that room this year, let me do some math here:

5% of $150M times 32 Teams...hmmm, looks like $240M that could really affect some change in neighborhoods in their towns!

But the real fact of the matter is that it is a lot easier to "take a knee" or lock arms around a "cause" than actually care enough to give 5% of your annual salary to help fix it.

Wonder what would happen if they took the $7.5M per team raised and committed that money to fund two or three inner city youth centers where kids could have a safe and secure place to get help with school, learn skills and maybe get themselves and their families out of the hell hole that is downtown Chicago, Detroit, or (insert low income inner city where black on black crime is through the roof here).

These are the same places where no one wants to admit that being a police officer of any color is one hell of a hard job. Mistakes are made and over zealous power hungry cops can be the result of the day to day existence of trying to keep the peace in a neighborhood where there are some really bad people, mixed in with the good, honest hard working poor people and it gets really hard to tell which is which. Of course you never hear about the vast majority of cops that are professional and do their jobs the best they can...and it is one hell of a career challenge they took on when they signed up for the academy.

So I am waiting for it NFL Players....quit taking knees, holding hands and locking arms and start cutting some big checks...until I see that, I consider you all a bunch of posers that don't really give damn! And I really haven't watched much NFL Football this year, only one Seahawks game during the first 4 weeks...cause I got better things to do than watch a bunch of spoiled athletes make a political statement instead of quietly flexing their economic muscle to actually do something. What a joke!!

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