So who won the stupid debate?

OK, I did my civic duty last night. I watched the whole friggin' thing. The result is that this morning, I have a violent headache and rectal bleeding. Here's my analysis, such as it is:

1. Trump obviously didn't prepare at all for this, and Hillary obviously did.
2. Trump was on the verge of total meltdown several times, but barely held it together. (His supporters will view that as a victory of sorts.)
3. Clinton pretty much crushed Trump, especially on his lies such as on the birther thing and his tax returns.
4. The moderator let Trump piddle all over him.
5. Clinton wasn't great. She seemed robotic at times, especially when discussing race. That was a golden opportunity for her to really fry Trump, and she didn't do it.
6. In fact, both candidates missed opportunities in that regard.

The consensus on the interblab is that Hillary won handily. One exception, which I found hilarious, was some website called redneckmoron.com that showed a "poll" reporting Trump the "winner" by a 9-1 margin. The comments appended by loyal loonies were 50-0 in favor of Trump. So I thought I'd do a poll of our politically savvy members.

As I think it matters what your predispositions are, I'm asking that as well. In fact, I wish I had posted this BEFORE the debate, because some of our members could and would have voted early.

And yeah, you were actually watching the football game, but you tuned in to CNN afterwards, at least. Right? RIGHT????

I think the debate showed one thing that'll be an ongoing issue for the Donald. Maybe HRC is a liar and a cheat and she should be in prison. But she speaks coherently, using complete and correct sentences. Setting aside the ideas that were shared yesterday, it was AMAZING how much easier it was to understand what she was trying to say than it was to follow Trump's train of thought/speech.

Hillary.

She had to meet very high expectations and she surpassed them.

Trump had very low expectations, and he didn't even meet those... *sniffle*

Well, the pundits are pretty much unanimous that Clinton won, and I am in agreement as she didn't have as much of a blunder moment as Trump did (when he responded to Clinton's claim that there were years when he didn't owe anything in income tax with, "That makes me smart").

However, Trump did appear to win based on two established criteria:

First, he "won the handshake," and just ask Michael Dukakis (after his first debate in 1988) how much that means. (In both 1988 and 2016, one candidate pretty much towered ("Trump towered" - I get it) over the other in the opening handshake.)

Second, there are lists of online polls (and not all from right-wing sites) showing Trump as the winner, which means that he won according to the Rules Of Debate As Established By People Who Feel The Bern, a significant number of whom pointed to online numbers after his debates to claim victory despite the pundits also siding with Clinton in those.

Of course, there's only one poll that matters - the one on November 8.
Oops - did I say one poll? I forgot that the 16th word of the Pledge of Allegiance is not "democracy" - there are, of course, 51 separate polls.

Quote: rdw4potus

I think the debate showed one thing that'll be an ongoing issue for the Donald. Maybe HRC is a liar and a cheat and she should be in prison. But she speaks coherently, using complete and correct sentences. Setting aside the ideas that were shared yesterday, it was AMAZING how much easier it was to understand what she was trying to say than it was to follow Trump's train of thought/speech.

I agree. Given the importance for him of not acting like someone who's been whacked repeatedly on the head, I was surprised that he sounded like such a bubblebrain. Doubtless, he ignored his handlers, who were probably covering their faces as they watched, but you would think that he would have realized that acting like a human being for even a few minutes (never mind "acting Presidential") scores big points with his acolytes. He could barely keep it together.

Of course, the "how could any sane person vote for this twit" question remains in effect, and I don't think we're going to see very many knuckle-dragging Trumpers have an epiphany anytime soon. I'm thinking that the only real effect of the debate will be to scare our allies to death.

Who won? Us people who didn't waste our time watching it!

Did not see it. But we will be in Vegas the election day, wich would be the best place to follow the results that night?

Thank you!

Quote: Catalanboy

Did not see it. But we will be in Vegas the election day, wich would be the best place to follow the results that night?

Thank you!

Once in awhile I've seen sports books flip the coverage on some of their sets. But no guarantee.

I would say your hotel room. Your phone. Possibly an off-Strip establishment will announce something soon.

I personally don't think that neither Trump nor Clinton are good Presidential Candidates. If I were forced to choose, I would choose Clinton over Trump as she actually has more Political experience than Trump.

Quote: Catalanboy

Did not see it. But we will be in Vegas the election day, wich would be the best place to follow the results that night?

Probably in your hotel room, watching your channel of choice. I don't expect the sports books to be carrying the different channels, given that betting on elections is illegal in Nevada.

Here's a thought; the Hard Rock Hotel/Casino might have one or more political groups from UNLV watching results; if you favor a particular candidate, you might want to be in that area. Then again, if a lot of them are under 21, it might be more likely to be somewhere like Naked City Pizza down the street.

You could tell that the moderator did not like Trump at all. How are these people chosen?

One of my co workers said she read that he even said that he doesn't want trump as president? With 3 of them I was wondering if HRC chose 1, trump chose 1, and the 3rd was agreed on by both. I have no idea how these things work.

Quote: GWAE

You could tell that the moderator did not like Trump at all. How are these people chosen?

One of my co workers said she read that he even said that he doesn't want trump as president? With 3 of them I was wondering if HRC chose 1, trump chose 1, and the 3rd was agreed on by both. I have no idea how these things work.

The two campaigns have no say in who the moderators are. The nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates picks them. By "nonpartisan" it basically means the commission is comprised of an equal number of Dems and Republicans.

Their official site: http://www.debates.org/

Trump has already complained about Anderson Cooper co-moderating debate #2.

And I'm sure Hillary would prefer someone other than Chris Wallace to do debate #3, but she hasn't whined about it yet.

EDIT: Also, Lester Holt is a registered Republican. Trump claimed he was a Democrat on Bill O'Reilly's show, but that was flat out wrong.

Quote: Catalanboy

Did not see it. But we will be in Vegas the election day, wich would be the best place to follow the results that night?

Thank you!

There are TVs all over the place in Vegas. Over the gambling pits. In the restaurants. I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding a place to watch it.

I'll be in Vegas for Debate #2. I think it'd be fun to watch it with a crowd.

Trump didn't shake the Moderators hand even though Holt extended it towards him after the debate...

Quote: billryan

Trump didn't shake the Moderators hand even though Holt extended it towards him after the debate...

I missed that. I fell asleep in my recliner around 10:20.

Quote: ams288

Trump has already complained about Anderson Cooper co-moderating debate #2.

He is complaining that a registered Democrat should not moderate
hmm
Anderson Cooper is a registered independent
Fox's Chris Wallace is a debate moderator and a registered Democrat
Yup, you heard that right, Chris Wallace is a registered Dem :-)

I waited to watch the entire thing today before commenting... For the record I'm independent and am not a big fan of either of them. In my opinion, Trump is a reality TV star and the only reason he has any attention is because of the wild crap and racist bigoted speech he flings out like monkeys fling their poo. Just hard to stop watching. Hillary is involved in more scandals and actual illegal shit than you can shake a stick at. A LOT of people that have opposed her have suddenly hushed up or even died over the past X years... Real life House of Cards shit (and no it's not 'cool' like you'd want to think in the show because this is our real political system).

That being said...

Hillary clearly won the debate. She actually answered questions where as so many times I was thinking "Why can't the moderator just cut off Trumps mic???" He spewed the same incoherent responses, that didn't even actually answer questions, over and over. To the point of the politics themselves.. he wants to bring back stop and frisk, which was proven unconstitutional (and he argued this) and he doesn't think this is a way to target minorities (idiotic).

Trump won't release his taxes even though there's ZERO reason for him not to, right now. It'll show all of the other swirling reports that he's contributed zero to charity (even his own), TAKEN from his own charities, isn't as rich as he wants you to believe, and the big one... that he's paid ZERO federal taxes (which he admitted in the debate). He claims "cuz I'm smart" but really this is just proof in the pudding that the rich aren't paying their fair share. This destroys his politcal plan to SLASH taxes for the wealthy and bring back "trickle down" economics, which I personally believe is nothing more than hysteria created by rich people to get enough stupid middle class people to pay their taxes for them. Rich people didn't get rich by giving their tax savings away, and I for one think everyone should pay their FAIR share. An equal percent that you can't DODGE through loopholes. If I have to pay 30% in taxes, then someone who makes $500 million should have to pay 30% too, irregardless of amounts.

While neither got in to a ton of specifics, Hillary did have more to actually contribute as far as ACTUAL plans and ACTUAL things to do to get results. She wants to make the rich pay their fair share in taxes and use the money to invest in youth by college debts, etc. Trump simply kept blurting out "we're in trouble and I'm the solution" over and over without providing any kind of real details. The only detail Trump put out that I agreed with was that NAFTA was terrible and we need to tax goods coming in to our country to leverage companies to NOT leave the US (because they'd get taxed on the way back in so it's not cheaper for them to). This could keep more jobs and bring other jobs back.

The other thing that Trump did that was annoying was try to blame the current administration for several things that Bush actually set up, such as the troops departure date in Iraq. He also tried to kind of dodge the birther movement that not only he started, but he completely ignored the question of "why did you persist past 2011 when he produced his long form birth certificate then?" He was just really overall annoying to listen to as he said A LOT without really saying anything with substance. I felt like I was watching south park for the first half of the debate with Trump repeating "THEY TOOK 'ER JOBS!"

Seriously - WHY CAN'T THE MODERATOR MUTE THEIR MICS SO HE CAN STAY IN CONTROL???

What I would like to see for the next debate... Gary Johnson and mutable microphones.

I hate to say it, but Clinton won the debate. She seemed more prepared and"polished". Trump mostly seemed on the defensive. He should have brought up more about her Clinton Foundation being used to prop up dictatorships and make her and Bill rich. Trump could have attacked her more on terrorism weakness and poor race relations (riots in Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.), but he didn't. Also, Clinton spoke louder and clearer, while Trump seemed passive, quiet and relatively "low energy".
Just my thoughts. Replies appreciated.

Quote: nvr55xx

I hate to say it, but Clinton won the debate. She seemed more prepared and"polished". Trump mostly seemed on the defensive. He should have brought up more about her Clinton Foundation being used to prop up dictatorships and make her and Bill rich. Trump could have attacked her more on terrorism weakness and poor race relations (riots in Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.), but he didn't. Also, Clinton spoke louder and clearer, while Trump seemed passive, quiet and relatively "low energy".
Just my thoughts. Replies appreciated.

Trump has done a lot of complaining today about questions that weren't asked. But, the debate was largely an open forum. OF COURSE the number of formal questions was going to be limited. and if he wanted to talk about other things, he should have brought them up. That's what HRC did to get in discussions about housing discrimination, taxes, lawsuits with vendors. At the very least, Trump should have been able to figure out how to play by at least mid-way through the game. But, he didn't. And then he blamed other people for his failure. That's not going to work with the Presidency...

Quote: nvr55xx

I hate to say it, but Clinton won the debate. She seemed more prepared and"polished". Trump mostly seemed on the defensive. He should have brought up more about her Clinton Foundation being used to prop up dictatorships and make her and Bill rich. Trump could have attacked her more on terrorism weakness and poor race relations (riots in Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.), but he didn't. Also, Clinton spoke louder and clearer, while Trump seemed passive, quiet and relatively "low energy".
Just my thoughts. Replies appreciated.

Where have the Clintons made a dime off their Foundation? Today we learn that Trump had companies donate money he had earned to his Foundation, seemingly not paying income tax on it. Which, by the way, is completely illegal.
Trumps answer to the racial divide is stop and frisk? You can't make this stuff up.

It wasn't donalds fault. A union technician sabotaged his microphone. If only someone from his team had thought to do a sound check.

Quote: Romes

Seriously - WHY CAN'T THE MODERATOR MUTE THEIR MICS SO HE CAN STAY IN CONTROL???

What I would like to see for the next debate... Gary Johnson and mutable microphones.

Well, it was anticipated that the moderator would have this problem, and I think the networks have been intimidated in that if there is a moderator who actually tries to control Trump, he/she will be accused of bias. Also, the networks are trying to boost ratings, not provide information as such--this was reality TV at its finest (i.e., at its worst). It's been conclusively shown that the Trump petulant man-child persona is fascinating to the public. The more orange he turns and the louder and ruder he gets, the higher the ratings climb. So putting a mike-muzzle on him would be counterproductive from that standpoint.

I also think that the networks are busting a gut to make this entire election dog-and-pony show appear fair, which means being much, much, much, much harder on Hillary than on the Orange Orangutan. It's like attempting to make a World Series between the Yankees and the Paducah Piglets watchable/competitive by making the Yankees use lead bats.

Quote: billryan

It wasn't donalds fault. A union technician sabotaged his microphone. If only someone from his team had thought to do a sound check.

On Fox & Friends this morning, Trump said they did do a sound check and his mic sounded great.

I think Hillary summed it up best today:

"Anybody who complains about the microphone is not having a good night."

#TrumpWon has been trending on Twitter all day.

But.... www.trendsmap.com shows that the #TrumpWon hashtag originated and gained steam in...... RUSSIA.

Why does Russia want Trump to be President so badly???

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780841769470681088

Quote: ams288

#TrumpWon has been trending on Twitter all day.

But.... www.trendsmap.com shows that the #TrumpWon hashtag originated and gained steam in...... RUSSIA.

Why does Russia want Trump to be President so badly???

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/780841769470681088

is that a rhetorical question?

Quote: nvr55xx

I hate to say it, but Clinton won the debate. She seemed more prepared and"polished". Trump mostly seemed on the defensive. He should have brought up more about her Clinton Foundation being used to prop up dictatorships and make her and Bill rich. Trump could have attacked her more on terrorism weakness and poor race relations (riots in Baltimore, Charlotte, etc.), but he didn't. Also, Clinton spoke louder and clearer, while Trump seemed passive, quiet and relatively "low energy".
Just my thoughts. Replies appreciated.

Uhhhh...logic? Clinton is responsible for the events in Baltimore and Charlotte?????

Trump is far, far more responsible for racial divides in this country than Clinton, who has been attempting to heal them. And comparing what the two candidates have been doing with their charitable foundations isn't even close--Hillary didn't spend $20,000 from her charity on a huge portrait of herself, to cite just one example.

The "terrorism weakness" horsecrap is likewise misdirected. Trump has done more to foster hatred of the US than just about any public figure. Hillary--Benghazi/so freakin' what.

I agree that Trump seemed low-octane. It would be ironic if, in light of all the "OOOOO! Hillary stumbled!!!" nonsense, that it is Trump who's running out of energy. It's also possible that he's getting tired of being called out on all his lies and fraud, which is a kitchen he never should have gone into if he didn't want the heat.

Quote: ams288

Why does Russia want Trump to be President so badly???

Is obvious! Gospodin Trump has promised he will rent out little dumpling Melania to Gospodin Putin for to have fun at his dacha outside Moscow. Is Trump friend of Moscow, he will promise to be making nuclear war on Estonia for to help Vladimir. And Donaldchik has already said that Vladimir can use his email server any time he is wanting to!

"The ads you are running against me using my own words are mean. You're being a meanie Hillary. I could call your husband names but I won't because he's sitting in the front row."

There goes that "tough guy" fake persona of his. The ads are so mean!

Trump is a joke.

I'm not really declaring a winner until I watch the debate a second time. Some things I noticed others aren't talking about, Trump almost cried talking about Obama's birth certificate and Hillary seemed to intentionally not leave the stage, as if avoiding steps on camera.

I guess I'll add what I don't like. I don't like Trump's tax cuts. I don't think they'll work. I don't like Hillary's ambitions for energy, because I don't think we can afford them and they don't work.

Quote: Steverinos

"The ads you are running against me using my own words are mean. You're being a meanie Hillary. I could call your husband names but I won't because he's sitting in the front row."

There goes that "tough guy" fake persona of his. The ads are so mean!

Trump is a joke.

I thought he mentioned her daughter, not wanting to hurt her.

Avoiding steps on camera? lol, I think I know where you are going with this but...

Stamina? Hillary doesn't have the stamina?

Not only did Hillary not cough or clear her throat once (lol), she also didn't take one sip of water, while Trump drank all of his and looked like he needed a nap at the end.

Trump got owned last night. Totally unhinged and incoherent, can't finish a simple sentence, onto the next blathering thought, not presidential.

Hillary calm, collected, and totally on point.

Quote: Steverinos

Avoiding steps on camera? lol, I think I know where you are going with this but...

Stamina? Hillary doesn't have the stamina?

Not only did Hillary not cough or clear her throat once (lol), she also didn't take one sip of water, while Trump drank all of his and looked like he needed a nap at the end.

Trump got owned last night. Totally unhinged and incoherent, can't finish a simple sentence, onto the next blathering thought, not presidential.

Hillary calm, collected, and totally on point.

does trump drink weird? It looked weird to me when he would take a drink.

maybe she had to pee and didn't want to add more water to the system.

I'm gonna call it now... They're gonna try to better factually prepare Trump for round 2, but simply by experience he's going to get out classed. See, at these things he knows enough people are watching that he could actually get in "LIVE" trouble if he says some of his radical, racist, and bigoted speech. However, since he's going to lose this and the 2nd debate, I feel he's going to throw a hail mary in the 3rd debate and bring out all the stops... Crashing and burning to the ground.

The best way this ends is if right before the election he pulls out citing "I just wanted to show Americans how gullible and stupid they really are. I ran on a platform of hate and everyone who followed me needs to reconsider their life choices."

Quote: Romes

I'm gonna call it now... They're gonna try to better factually prepare Trump for round 2, but simply by experience he's going to get out classed. See, at these things he knows enough people are watching that he could actually get in "LIVE" trouble if he says some of his radical, racist, and bigoted speech. However, since he's going to lose this and the 2nd debate, I feel he's going to throw a hail mary in the 3rd debate and bring out all the stops... Crashing and burning to the ground.

The best way this ends is if right before the election he pulls out citing "I just wanted to show Americans how gullible and stupid they really are. I ran on a platform of hate and everyone who followed me needs to reconsider their life choices."

Fantasy moment from Debate #3: Trump goes on a completely unhinged rant, insulting Hillary and half the world as well. It's finally her turn to speak. She just stares at him, then finally says, "You stupid (anal orifice)." Then she simply walks off the stage.

A microcosm of exactly what Republican voters should do on November 8, rather than wasting an afternoon voting for Anal Orifice.

NBC won the debate.

Both candidates simply attacked one another. Trump frowned and grimaced. Hillary looked like the sister of the guy from Mad Magazine with her punch me in the face grins.

The moderator was lost in space.

They should have put both of them in a WWF cage match and started the debate.

Quote: Romes

I'm gonna call it now... They're gonna try to better factually prepare Trump for round 2, but simply by experience he's going to get out classed. See, at these things he knows enough people are watching that he could actually get in "LIVE" trouble if he says some of his radical, racist, and bigoted speech. However, since he's going to lose this and the 2nd debate, I feel he's going to throw a hail mary in the 3rd debate and bring out all the stops... Crashing and burning to the ground.

The best way this ends is if right before the election he pulls out citing "I just wanted to show Americans how gullible and stupid they really are. I ran on a platform of hate and everyone who followed me needs to reconsider their life choices."

Sounds like a poker move. Big bluff on the turn, fold the river

Trump's performance will improve for debate #2 (it has to....).

Debate #2 is a town hall format. That plays to his strengths. He feeds off of a crowd.

Debate #3 is the same format as debate #1, although I think candidates may be sitting at a table instead of standing at a podium.

Quote: GWAE

does trump drink weird? It looked weird to me when he would take a drink.

maybe she had to pee and didn't want to add more water to the system.

I'm guessing she won't eat or drink anything without a clear chain of custody among trusted members of her campaign. I don't blame her.

Quote: JoelDeze

...They should have put both of them in a WWF cage match and started the debate.

I also said a while ago this was the tipping point in to turning the movie "Idiocracy" in to a documentary...

Debate #3 is on October 19 in Las Vegas. How do you get into the audience?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Debate #3 is on October 19 in Las Vegas. How do you get into the audience?

I think the candidates get x number of tickets to give out, and the university that hosts gets x number of tickets to give out.

Hofstra University used a lottery system for allocating the tickets that they were allowed to give out.

Quote: ams288

I think the candidates get x number of tickets to give out, and the university that hosts gets x number of tickets to give out.

Hofstra University used a lottery system for allocating the tickets that they were allowed to give out.

Thanks. The debate is supposed to be at UNLV. I expect they are doing similar.

Quote: Steverinos

Avoiding steps on camera? lol, I think I know where you are going with this but...

Stamina? Hillary doesn't have the stamina?

Not only did Hillary not cough or clear her throat once (lol), she also didn't take one sip of water, while Trump drank all of his and looked like he needed a nap at the end.

Trump got owned last night. Totally unhinged and incoherent, can't finish a simple sentence, onto the next blathering thought, not presidential.

Hillary calm, collected, and totally on point.

I think she was afraid of stumbling on the steps on camera. She is an old lady and he is an old man, and just in that way, I feel sorry for both of them, because getting old is worthy of pity.

While from a debater's perspective Hillary clearly won, there are things that Hillary let Trump get away with. First, off, Holt and Clinton let Trump hang himself. This was clearly a strategy of Hillary to let him speak foolishly. Hillary is adept with debating and knows when to shut up and was perfectly capable of speaking up and interrupting, but Hillary quickly realized that Trump was shooting himself and was happy to give him the airtime. Trump, he can't help himself, egomaniac that is is.

Holt did question Hillary on her email and she said what she did before: she made a mistake. Meanwhile, Trump hung himself on the tax return question and had no responses to the accusations that he was hiding something. The correct response would be to release the returns and show that he had nothing to hide. But that of course is likely not true.

Holt was far more gone on Trump though mostly because Trump brought it on himself. His birther answers just required more questioning.

Trump did lose it, but the statement of her experience being "bad experience" is true to his base. His statements on ISIS will ring true to his followers as well, and his fear-mongering comments will also ring true to those who are afraid. And his statements on the state of the economy in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio and NATFA and trade will ring true to anyone who is not an economist.

But clearly, his statements towards the former Miss Universe (sexist) and his answer to the Justice Department lawsuit (racist) and his defense of stop and frisk (racist and unconstitutional) will raise eyebrows in the undecided to be sure. He had no rebuttal to the economy issue, and the response of "I'm smart" in response to taking advantage of tax law to not pay tax was clearly insensitive. He didn't have a response to the cost of his tax plan.

Linking stop and frisk to a reduction in crime for NYC is ridiculous, but Clinton missed that. Instead she lied.

Trump was incoherent at the end, blabbering on and on in a slew of comments and half-sentences I couldn't understand. When he stated he had the temperament, the audience laughed AT him.

But none of this will sway the folks voting for Trump. The target, as always is the narrow band of undecided in swing states. Clinton won the debate, but I doubt the undecided have turned one way or another. There's two more debates to go.

Quote: boymimbo

But none of this will sway the folks voting for Trump. The target, as always is the narrow band of undecided in swing states. Clinton won the debate, but I doubt the undecided have turned one way or another. There's two more debates to go.

Yeah, I know. The chances of this debate actually making a difference are the same as the chances of the great putrid mass of Trumpers suddenly getting smarter. It's educational to listen to/read some of the internet swill where Trumpers are saying their man WON!!!!, and why.

That said, if this confection, uh, destruction, uh, election is going to be as close as a lot of people are saying, swaying even a few thousand voters may be well worth the effort. I can see Hillary benefiting a lot more from the "undecided" than Trump. Breaking it into four groups:

1. Leaning Democrat, probably voting for Clinton: "I WANT BERNIEEEEEEE!" Not much change there. Probably stay home and pout anyway.
2. Leaning Democrat, probably voting for Clinton: "Me not trust her." Some change, more votes for her--if only because Trump is so appalling.
3. Leaning Republican, probably voting for Trump: No addition to the fold of the idiot faithful as a result of the debate. Maybe a tiny subtraction from it.
4. Leaning Republican, probably not voting at all: I expect these ranks to have swelled significantly. I mean, how can anyone watching this pathetic pusbag fall apart on national TV support him? Anyone with any common decency or sense, that is, which excludes #3.

I did find it funny Trump wants to take guns away from blacks and thought the gun zealots probably saw no fear, which they actually should. Yeah he said something like those who shouldn't have them implying illegal ownership, but gun zealots should be up in arms against taking guns needed for defense away.

Quote:

getting old is worthy of pity.

You should be horse-whipped for saying such a calumny!

Danged whipper-snapper.

Quote: boymimbo

But clearly, his statements towards the former Miss Universe (sexist) and his answer to the Justice Department lawsuit (racist) and his defense of stop and frisk (racist and unconstitutional) will raise eyebrows in the undecided to be sure.

Linking stop and frisk to a reduction in crime for NYC is ridiculous, but Clinton missed that. Instead she lied.

Stop and Frisk is not unconstitutional.

It is still in use today in NYC, but it's use is down 97%.

Daily Caller

Linking S&F to a reduction in crime in NYC is not ridiculous.

The murder rate in NYC has declined for every year but one, since the use of S&F was expanded. Down 85% in the past twenty three years.

The same is true for overall crime. Down 76%.

NYPD

Study from Washington Post showed no linkage. You're right. It was unconstitutional in its form and the NYPD had to write new rules. Gentrification is the likely factor in the reduced crime rate in NYC.

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

Yeah, I know. The chances of this debate actually making a difference are the same as the chances of the great putrid mass of Trumpers suddenly getting smarter. It's educational to listen to/read some of the internet swill where Trumpers are saying their man WON!!!!, and why.

He did win. He was talking about jobs and things that matter. The Blonde Baboon was crying because he called Rosie O'Donnell a name? Same Blonde Baboon that called people not supporting her deplorable? Meanwhile Trump was debating two people, the Blonde Baboon and the moderator.

He tried to heal racial divisions while she keeps up the race-baiting that is causing so many problems in our country.

Did you see the polls? Most who responded went for Trump, often by a wide margin.