The DA asked everyone if they had ever rented an apartment. (Being in NYC almost everyone raised their hands)
Then he asked if they had a refrigerator supplied by the landlord (and being in NYC almost everyone raised their hands.)
"Now, when you moved into that apartment, you took possession of the unit and the refrigerator. Even if you were approached outside your apartment, if someone asked you if you were in possession of a refrigerator, everyone here would admit they were, correct?" (Everyone nodded affirmative).
"So possession can mean any item anywhere, even if you are not currently holding it. If you possess something, then there is no other answer but to admit to it."
With that the DA sat down and the defense attorney addressed us. It went something like this.
"I want you to follow the directions of the judge as pertains to the law of possession, not what the DA is trying to impress upon you. Since he used a kitchen example, let me give you one as well.
"How many people here have knives stored in their kitchen drawers?" (Everyone raised their hands.)
"How many people here have those knives hidden away in closed drawers so you don't see them when you enter the kitchen?" (Everyone raised their hands.)
"How many people here are aware that possession of a concealed weapon in NY is a felony?" (Everyone raised their hands.)
"So, how many people feel if a police officer approached you in the street and questioned if you were in possession of a knife in your kitchen draw, you should then be arrested for possession of a concealed weapon?" (No one's hands went up.)
I assume this was a possession charge that involved the guns not actually being discovered on the persons charged which is where the DA was trying to take it. Unfortunately (well, fortunately for me since I didn't really want to serve) I did not get picked from the pool so I didn't hear any evidence.
But I thought this was an interesting aside of what attorneys will do to persuade people into concepts of law.
the DA defines the word "possess" as "own" and the defense defines it as "carry".
I think the DA is stretching it a bit too far and I would side with defense.
Quote: IbeatyouracesA pen in your pocket is just as much a weapon as a knife.
Yes but if an officer is searching you see what happens differently if he finds a concealed pen vs. a concealed knife.
He says he wants people to admit they possess a refrigerator and they really can't say for sure because it may be stolen as they speak miles away.
Quote: billryanA kitchen knife is not a weapon. A first year law student would mock him.
Well as someone who went through 1L and 2L and 3l. I would highly disagree with you and could easily argue that a kitchen knife COULD be a weapon
Quote: NY courtsPOSSESS means to have physical possession or otherwise
to exercise dominion or control over tangible property. Thus a
person may possess property in either of two ways:
First, the person may have physical possession of property
by holding it in his or her hand, or by carrying it in or on his or her
body or person.
Second, the person may exercise dominion or control over
property not in his or her physical possession. A person who
exercises dominion or control over property not in his or her
physical possession is said to have that property in his or her
“constructive possession.”
https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/220/AC.220.Constructive_Possession.pdf
And here's part of the NY penal code:
Quote: New York Penal Law § 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degreeA person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or “Kung Fu star”; or
http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-265-01.html
So that appears to mean that owning a gun, Taser, or slingshot in New York is a crime. That can't be right generally, so can anyone with NY legal experience draw the line?
Bludgeon: "a thick stick with a heavy end, used as a weapon".
Baseball bats are illegal in NY?
Quote: WizardofnothingWell as someone who went through 1L and 2L and 3l. I would highly disagree with you and could easily argue that a kitchen knife COULD be a weapon
Anything can be a weapon. I can take off a sock, load it with pocket change or a potato and beat you to death.
New York state law defines what types of knives are legal and illegal.
If someone beats a person to death with a baseball bat, does that make Derek Jeter guilty of possession of a weapon?
Just like if sex is consensual it's fine if it's not its rape
Quote: WizardofnothingWell I didn't go to law school in nyc. But as with everything if it's used as a weapon in some states you can be charged with it
Just like if sex is consensual it's fine if it's not its rape
Yes, if you hit someone with a bat, it's considered a weapon. But possessing a bat isn't a criminal offence.
Drive drunk and hit someone and in certain circumstances, your car can be a deadly weapon. Doesn't mean you can get arrested for being in possession of a car.
Clearly, this vital Second Amendment question should be examined by the NRA (National Refrigerator Association).
I have a special place where I retreat to in uncertain times.
A safe place.
A dusty secluded refuge from the hard cruel world.
I'll be under my fridge if you need me.... 2F
Quote: darkoz
"So, how many people feel if a police officer approached you in the street and questioned if you were in possession of a knife in your kitchen draw, you should then be arrested for possession of a concealed weapon?" (No one's hands went up.)
The reason that the defense attorney's illustration is not a parallel to the DA's is because it's not illegal to conceal weapons in your own home. The DA was trying to illustrate constructive possession. The defense attorney was trying, probably intentionally, to mix the concepts of actual vs constructive possession with the defense of being on your own premises.