Arrested at AK CHIN CASINO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FioUpfcF4ZM

PART TWO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsAVbxzpos

PART THREE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhdQR5_L124

Real part #1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeSPRjObUQo

tough, but i'm not sure there's much you can do against tribal police. obviously sharing the ID information with the casino is a violation of rights/illegal, but they are tribal. other than that, they did pay him (eventually), the casino did not detain him, the patron in question probably wanted to be arrested, but I don't think at the end of the day he will get much out of it. if these weren't tribal police involved, i think the patron would be entitled to a mid five to low six figure settlement.

Whether a tribal casino or a casino owned by a public corporation operating on the Strip in Vegas, the casino has a right to determine who they want to do business with. They didn't want to do business with him. They wanted ID which is a reasonable request; he was argumentative and easily could have provided the ID, gotten his money, been trespassed and left. Instead he was responsible for escalating the situation. I think the patron was a wise ass cardcounter who got caught. End of story -- move on to another casino.

Quote: coilman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FioUpfcF4ZM

PART TWO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsAVbxzpos

PART THREE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhdQR5_L124

What led up to this situation?

There's some missing video after they put the cuffs on you. Just curious if anything interesting happened at that time?


I'm still not sure why you didn't take your chips and go ASAP at the beginning? Had you done that they wouldn't have obtained your real name.

The goal should be to get out of the casino with your chips/money with very little attention and as fast possible. Hopefully you were just being difficult because you had a few drinks and weren't making normal AP decisions.

And now your name is all over the internet along with a reason to distribute it to other casinos confirming you're not someone they want in their casino for any reason. Even if you're not counting and playing ploppy status. No casino wants someone in the casino that won't show ID, films and puts up resistance when asked to leave. I think they do have the right to ask for ID, however they should've just said it was an age check.

Hopefully you do get something out of this, but I don't see anything to damaging. If that's all that ever happens to an AP, then I'll call it utopic.

Fun Video to WATCH either way .

So, we just post random videos without any background to the story depicted?

The videos don't garner much sympathy nor do they portray the person in a very positive light.

It would be nice if Paul Harvey would pop in and fill us in on the rest of the story.

As a veteran Professional A.P. for the last 23.5 years, and someone who has been detained and trespassed numerous times, etc.
I would like to make the following comments:

This is clearly a HARRAH'S casino (re: management), BUT it is obviously a Native American Enterprise, located on reservation land
and that means that like any similar business, it is operating on "sovereign" land. The U.S. Supreme Court in 1979 decided that even constitutionally granted rights are null and void on reservation land. That case included unlawful search and seizure as well as detaining.

In this particular case we are seeing a misguided young man who fails to understand that he has NO legal rights whatsoever in this case. If the casino "police" wanted to handcuff him to a tree and let him whine for a few days or even beat him senseless, there is NO recourse available to him.

It is crystal clear to me that his words indicated that he imagined that he would receive a windfall cash settlement following a civil lawsuit. The chances of that happening are ZERO.

"It is crystal clear to me that his words indicated that he imagined that he would receive a windfall cash settlement following a civil lawsuit. The chances of that happening are ZERO."

A get rich quick scheme at a casino, I am shocked.

Quote: AlanMendelson

...I think the patron was a wise ass cardcounter who got caught. End of story -- move on to another casino.

I though you and the crew on your site think AP is a myth? If so why would a casino do this?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Whether a tribal casino or a casino owned by a public corporation operating on the Strip in Vegas, the casino has a right to determine who they want to do business with. They didn't want to do business with him. They wanted ID which is a reasonable request; he was argumentative and easily could have provided the ID, gotten his money, been trespassed and left. Instead he was responsible for escalating the situation. I think the patron was a wise ass cardcounter who got caught. End of story -- move on to another casino.

I completely disagree. You are under no obligation to provide ID, they are under every obligation to cash your chips. The chips are a bearer instrument that must be paid to the presenter in almost every case. From a practical standpoint, he should have just left with his chips and came back to cash them later.

Boring. Cops always win, just have somebody
else cash your chips later for you.

There are all sorts of banking and anti money laundering laws which give casinos the right to ask for your ID. Indian casinos are not immune.

And Indian casino police cannot handcuff you to a tree for days while you whine. But I am sure that was a comment made in jest.

And yes there are card counters, and if they want to use the label "advantage player" it's okay with me. And casinos reserve the right not to do business with card counters (I think with the exception of New Jersey?).

I still think the guy was a wise ass.

And yes, what happened after he was cuffed? How did he get the camera back to shoot some more?

Quote: bigfoot66

You are under no obligation to provide ID, they are under every obligation to cash your chips.

Not so with certain amounts of money or even certain patterns of buying in or cashing out. By the way, how much money was involved?

Quote: SanchoPanza

Not so with certain amounts of money or even certain patterns of buying in or cashing out. By the way, how much money was involved?

This is a stupid post. Yes of course there are times you have to show ID, we are talking about the case at hand where the guy did not do any of those things. He was trying to cash out $700, not $10,000.

Quote: AlanMendelson

There are all sorts of banking and anti money laundering laws which give casinos the right to ask for your ID. Indian casinos are not immune.

And Indian casino police cannot handcuff you to a tree for days while you whine. But I am sure that was a comment made in jest.

And yes there are card counters, and if they want to use the label "advantage player" it's okay with me. And casinos reserve the right not to do business with card counters (I think with the exception of New Jersey?).

I still think the guy was a wise ass.

And yes, what happened after he was cuffed? How did he get the camera back to shoot some more?

Of course the guy was an A-hole. That's besides the point. People buy chips with the understanding that they are bearer instruments that the casino issues as IOU's. This is part of the unspoken contract you make with the casino when you buy them. You may trade cash for chips and chips for cash at your pleasure. Yes the fed's have some rules around it but if you allow the casino itself to add rules to this you are changing the nature of a casino chip. Why not let them demand a week's notice before they cash a chip? Hey it's just a minor inconvenience. Why not let them insist on paying you with a check instead of cash? Why not let them charge a 5% fee for cashing chips? The nature of buying chips today is that you may demand cash for them at any time and the casino must oblige, subject to federal laws around reporting cash transactions. If you want to change the rules that's fine but these chips were purchased with a certain unspoken contract that Ak-Chin violated.

Quote: AxelWolf

What led up to this situation?

There's some missing video after they put the cuffs on you. Just curious if anything interesting happened at that time?


I'm still not sure why you didn't take your chips and go ASAP at the beginning? Had you done that they wouldn't have obtained your real name.

The goal should be to get out of the casino with your chips/money with very little attention and as fast possible. Hopefully you were just being difficult because you had a few drinks and weren't making normal AP decisions.

And now your name is all over the internet along with a reason to distribute it to other casinos confirming you're not someone they want in their casino for any reason. Even if you're not counting and playing ploppy status. No casino wants someone in the casino that won't show ID, films and puts up resistance when asked to leave. I think they do have the right to ask for ID, however they should've just said it was an age check.

Hopefully you do get something out of this, but I don't see anything to damaging. If that's all that ever happens to an AP, then I'll call it utopic.

Fun Video to WATCH either way .

I just posted the links..... a friend had sent to me.

I thought it was interesting how things played out on a Native land based casino

The cop I am trying to help you LOL and where does the local band get all its money to pay your wages officer?

I wonder if he was banned at another Caesars casino thus they had his photo

Did anyone check out the guys youtube page that this video was posted on? He has some more videos all with cops confrontations or harassing a cop. Looks to me like this is a example of someone that is asking for trouble!!

Quote: Mikey75

Did anyone check out the guys youtube page that this video was posted on? He has some more videos all with cops confrontations or harassing a cop. Looks to me like this is a example of someone that is asking for trouble!!

It's certainly not a very pragmatic approach but it is good for all of us. In the videos I watched he is what the courts would call a "belligerent claimant" of his rights. He is stubbornly demanding that they follow the rules.

There was a time, long ago I guess, when a Harrahs and/or Caesars management person had much more class than is displayed here. The management comes across as thugs or worse. All the fuss over $700.usd. I've never been approached or questioned about a $700.usd cash out at the cage in these formerly high class properties. I'll have to be more discerning where I visit again.

As the how the camera came in play, well we can assume it was a hand held smart phone is all. Not exactly a big deal or rocket science. In addition, the officers could have easily just seen what vehicle this customer got in to to leave, then take the information off same and traced it. The idea they checked on his name is for fools to believe. Asking for a SS# is another joke. The customer leaving the cage without his chips in hand/pocket? What was he thinking?? Overall what we can learn from such videos is that there are very poorly managed casino's in the USA now that expansion has occurred. I can't imagine a scene like this in Las Vegas.