Driving in California and Nevada
I'm heading over to San Diego, Palm Springs and Vegas in March and would like to clarify a point about road rules.
When I was in CA back in May, I was pleased to note that you could turn right on a red light unless a sign specifically prohibited it (correct me if I'm wrong). I wish we had that in Australia (but left of course)!
Does this rule also apply in Nevada and Vegas in particular?
Thanks
Quote: Uranium235Morning all
I'm heading over to San Diego, Palm Springs and Vegas in March and would like to clarify a point about road rules.
When I was in CA back in May, I was pleased to note that you could turn right on a red light unless a sign specifically prohibited it (correct me if I'm wrong). I wish we had that in Australia (but left of course)!
Does this rule also apply in Nevada and Vegas in particular?
Thanks
Googling brings up this site. It says, "You are allowed to turn right on a red light after coming to a full stop, unless otherwise posted. You must be in the extreme right-hand lane and yield to pedestrians and all traffic moving through the intersection."
states, unless a sign says you can't.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=california+stop
As far as I know the term comes mostly from what people in much of the rest of the country think of Californians and their habits, rather than a formal difference among the states in what you're actually supposed to do.
And yes, it applies in Nevada. Both parts, about legal and right to do and piss poor execution of it, especially when applied to psychotic Vegas taxi drivers who learned their driving in Mogadishu, so if you see a sign on a nearby vehicle that says "taxi" just assume that in a moment they are about to do the most insanely illegal thing in the worst way possible, and you'll be fine.
Quote: EvenBobIt's legal to turn right on red in all 50 states, unless a sign says you can't.
The last time I looked, the only real exception to this rule was in New York City.
However, you must come to a stop first.
Also, you can only do it from the rightmost lane.
Also - and I don't know if they have these in Australia, but they do in the UK - there's no "red and yellow lights together" between a red light and a green light; it goes straight from red to green. This keeps people from "jumping the green light" (and ending up in in a collision with somebody who decided to accelerate in order to get into the intersection before the yellow light turned red).
Quote: EvenBobIt's legal to turn right on red in all 50
states, unless a sign says you can't.
To complicate it more, it is often legal to turn LEFT on red if you are going from one one-way street to another one-way street.
Quote: Uranium235Does this rule also apply in Nevada and Vegas in particular?
Yes, you can do that in Nevada. I recall back in the 80s you couldn't in Nevada but they changed the law to allow it somewhere around 1990 I think.
Quote: ThatDonGuyThe last time I looked, the only real exception to this rule was in New York City.
However, you must come to a stop first.
Also, you can only do it from the rightmost lane.
Is it only the rightmost lane? I thinking about off/on ramps and other major connectors that have multiple lanes that are turn right only, and I have seen all the different lanes turn right on red.
Edit: Most of the time these situations are marked, "No Turn on Red", but sometimes they are not.
Quote: AZDuffmanTo complicate it more, it is often legal to turn LEFT on red if you are going from one one-way street to another one-way street.
Many people don't know this. I never knew if this was true in all states either. In pittsburgh, there are many many one way into one way.
Quote: GWAEMany people don't know this. I never knew if this was true in all states either. In pittsburgh, there are many many one way into one way.
It sounds harder to explain than it is when you are sitting there. Not sure on other states but I do know that in the 80s the Feds pushed states to legalize ROTR to save gas. Yes, lots of one-way streets here where you can do it. Probably more than most cities.
It is also common practice to have multiple lanes turn right on red if it is legal to turn right from multiple lanes on green. I don't know if that is legal or not, but it sure looks like everybody does it.
There is occasional discussion about whether or not a highway on-ramp is a one way street for the purposes of determining a legal left on red.
Quote: AyecarumbaWhat if thre are two marked right turn lanes? Can the car in the lane that is not the furthest right, still make the turn when the light is red?
Not in California.
Quote: ThatDonGuyNot in California.
That is weird because supposedly RTOR started in CA and there is not the "California Stop" which means you just slow down. First time I saw a left turn lane turn right was in the 1990s and it did feel weird at first.
Is there a reference to back this up? The handbook cited above doesn't cover it specifically.Quote: ThatDonGuyNot in California.
California vehicle code §21453 governs turns at red lights:Quote: AyecarumbaIs there a reference to back this up? The handbook cited above doesn't cover it specifically.
Quote:(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).
(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.
(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.
(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.
So if you would be allowed to make a right turn on green, you can make one on red after stopping unless otherwise prohibited.
Quote: RSI had no idea the lane you're in would matter if you could or couldn't turn on red.
In California it doesn't matter; if right turns from a lane are allowed, then right turns on red are allowed UNLESS prohibited by a sign or red arrow. Never observed an intersection where one right turn lane could turn on red, but an adjacent right turn lane could not, although it would be possible to set one up that way.
Thanks! That is good to know.Quote: LoquaciousMoFWCalifornia vehicle code §21453 governs turns at red lights:
Quote:(a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).
(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.
(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.
(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.
So if you would be allowed to make a right turn on green, you can make one on red after stopping unless otherwise prohibited.
Quote: Dalex64In Michigan, you can turn left from a one way or a two way street onto the left-most lane of a one way street from the left-most lane of the street that you are on.
I'm not specifically familiar with Michigan laws, but making this turn from a two-way street is not acceptable in places I have lived. That maneuver would have you crossing the path of vehicles turning left from the one-way street to the two-way street. That's the kind of situation likely to lead to collisions.
Maybe I'm not clear on what you mean -- how do you make your turn from the left-most lane of a two-way street in Michigan? Doesn't that mean you're driving on the wrong side of the street?
Quote: ThatDonGuyThe last time I looked, the only real exception to this rule was in New York City.
That makes sense now. In fact, the trigger for asking the question is the line in Annie Hall where Woody Allen said that he '...didn't want to move to [California] where the only cultural advantage is being able to make a right turn on a red light'.
Thanks to all for their tips.
Quote: DocI'm not specifically familiar with Michigan laws, but making this turn from a two-way street is not acceptable in places I have lived. That maneuver would have you crossing the path of vehicles turning left from the one-way street to the two-way street. That's the kind of situation likely to lead to collisions.
Maybe I'm not clear on what you mean -- how do you make your turn from the left-most lane of a two-way street in Michigan? Doesn't that mean you're driving on the wrong side of the street?
michigan.gov/msp/faq question 5
You can not turn left on red to a two way street, no matter if the street you are on is one way or two way.
By left-most lane, I mean the left-most lane in your direction of travel.
It would probably be easier to say you must be in a lane that can also legally turn in that direction on green.
As for a car turning left from a one way street to a two way street, there is a car coming in the lane you want to be in. You don't have the right of way. It doesn't matter if the car that is coming is turning left in front of you or going straight through.
The similarity betrwwn the right on red and the left on red is the person thatwants to do it only has to watch for traffic coming from one direction, and doesn't have to cross any traffic moving in another direction.
I think Michigan's left on red from a two way street to a one way street is probably unusual among the states. I saw from a link in an earlier post thar you can't do it in California.
Quote: LoquaciousMoFWQuote: RSI had no idea the lane you're in would matter if you could or couldn't turn on red.
In California it doesn't matter; if right turns from a lane are allowed, then right turns on red are allowed UNLESS prohibited by a sign or red arrow. Never observed an intersection where one right turn lane could turn on red, but an adjacent right turn lane could not, although it would be possible to set one up that way.
I don't know about CA, but almost every intersection I've seen around VA/DC/MD with more than one right turn lane will have a sign saying right on red is permitted only from the right-most lane. The reasoning is that allowing cars from other lanes to turn will block the view of the right-most lane.
Quote: EvenBobIt's legal to turn right on red in all 50
states, unless a sign says you can't.
In NYC (Manhattan-Bronx-Queens-Brooklyn-Staten Island) right on red is illegal unless there is a specific sign stating you can.
Quote: zoobrewIs it only the rightmost lane? I thinking about off/on ramps and other major connectors that have multiple lanes that are turn right only, and I have seen all the different lanes turn right on red.
Offhand, I can't think of an intersection with two right turn lanes in Nevada. Where major avenues go over the I-15 there will be multiple lanes leading to the off-ramp and those will specifically forbid any turns on a red.
Quote: WizardOffhand, I can't think of an intersection with two right turn lanes in Nevada. Where major avenues go over the I-15 there will be multiple lanes leading to the off-ramp and those will specifically forbid any turns on a red.
Indeed -- I can't think of any, either. Come to think of it, what do the signs say? Or are they just right-red-arrows?
Quote: RSI had no idea the lane you're in would matter if you could or couldn't turn on red.
It shouldn't (unless one lane's vision is impaired), but CA also doesn't make it clear that you must remain in your own lane with other cars involved. It might be common sense to most, and is a generic law somewhere else probably, but I feel like they should have reiterated that.
Quote: RSIndeed -- I can't think of any, either. Come to think of it, what do the signs say? Or are they just right-red-arrows?
They would generally say "NO TURN ON RED".
Quote: charliepatrickAlso interesting is the relatively lack of roundabouts (aka "Circles") in the US.
They are becoming more popular in recent years. Huge mistake, imo. But fortunately they aren't being used in heavily trafficked areas.
Quote: AyecarumbaFor the OP, here are some tips
Great article; thanks a lot.
I had a chat with colleagues the other day about driving on the left vs right. There is an urban legend that Napoleon started people driving their horses on the right to avoid sword fights with oncoming traffic because your right hands (sword hands) are too far away. As an old friend of mine would say, it's a great story...and it may even be true! Makes you wonder why people broke into a sword fight at the drop of a hat though...
On another note, check out the article about Sweden changing their driving sides in 1967. Drastically reduced their accidents for that month and year but shot back up the year after.
Cheers
Quote: WizardOffhand, I can't think of an intersection with two right turn lanes in Nevada. Where major avenues go over the I-15 there will be multiple lanes leading to the off-ramp and those will specifically forbid any turns on a red.
I can think of two: the T-intersection at Mel Torme Way and S Industrial and the southbound IH-15 off-ramp to westbound Russell. Both intersections have "no turn on red" signs as you mention.
Quote: MrWarmthI can think of two: the T-intersection at Mel Torme Way and S Industrial and the southbound IH-15 off-ramp to westbound Russell. Both intersections have "no turn on red" signs as you mention.
I drive two regularly. Russell Rd turning south on Las Vegas Blvd and US95 exit onto Tropicana.
