Apocryphal 1st date story

I do not know if this is true but I love this story:

Quote: gawker

MY DATE LAST NIGHT —- OMG GUYS READ THIS - 32

When I did my taxes this year I found out that I spent over $14,000 on Dates last year. Most of that was spent on dinner and drinks in Manhattan. Now don't get me wrong, I had some very good times, some great sex, some good conversations. Hell, I even made a good friend along the way, but mainly I came away from the date feeling extremely disappointed and with a lighter wallet. Date by date it's not THAT much money but it all adds up fast!

In the past I had a habit of always grabbing the check and paying whether my date was hot or not. Whether we clicked or not. Basically I felt ashamed to let her pay. I also kept and interesting statistic and even I was suprised that only 5% of my dates even offered to pay - yes you see that right- 5%! One girl in the entire year offered to pay for the entire check. A very nice gesture. But of course I paid and doubt she was sincere. In light of all this evidence I knew I had
to change some things. So, this year.....

I DECIDED TO NEVER PAY FOR A FIRST DATE AGAIN.

(too lengthy third party quote removed; please use link above to read the rest. mod)

How about adopting the mindset he makes sure the lady he's on a date with knows that he's not paying for her drinks, clearly and simply, rather than playing stupid mind games and -implying- that he's footing the bill?

Course she's speechless!

Quote: thecesspit

How about adopting the mindset he makes sure the lady he's on a date with knows that he's not paying for her drinks, clearly and simply, rather than playing stupid mind games and -implying- that he's footing the bill?

Course she's speechless!

This way is a hell of a lot funnier and shows that women will take advantage at every turn

When it comes to dating... Women are the APs with a VERY +EV game.

Quote: aceofspades

This way is a hell of a lot funnier and shows that women will take advantage at every turn

Yup. They take advantage on some forums as well.

Quote: Romes

When it comes to dating... Women are the APs with a VERY +EV game.

And I don't play negative ev games....this probably explains why I am still single

Quote: Avincow

And I don't play negative ev games....this probably explains why I am still single

haha, this gave me a good chuckle. I'm right there with ya, brother! Although, this has been subconscious until you just mentioned it.

To add a bit more to the thread from my own experiences... I dated my college girlfriend for 6 years. I won't bore with the details, but when the dust settled and we were no longer together, I reckon I spend upwards of $35,000 on her (keep in mind we dated for 3 years while in college and having barely any money to my name at any given time). My educated guess was that overall, she might have spent a max of $10k on me through the entire thing (and boy am I giving her a lot of extra credit). So what did I get, other than cheated on and robbed? Oh, essentially I paid $25k for that to happen. (without sounding too bitter I did learn more about myself and relationships from this girl than anyone else I've ever met... so maybe it was a $25k lesson)

I used to be a "I will absolutely pay for everything" kind of guy. This relationship opened my eyes (a lot) to the fact that a lot of women (not all) are hypocrites when it comes to dating/relationships. They constantly yell for equal rights, to be treated the same, but if the bill comes and you even ask to split it you get treated as some cheapskate loser whom has no class. In my experiences, they want all of the "traditional" benefits (he pays for everything, he treats me like a princess, etc) with none of the "traditional" costs (she's known as the one whom cooks, cleans, etc). I personally want someone who's an equal partner, middle of the road. We both cook, clean, pay for things, etc. I guess what I'm trying to say overall though is that is something I've found to be exceedingly rare. Almost every woman wants more than they give.

I truly believe the 5% of women he dated offered to pay. In all my life I've never had a woman offer to pay for a first date. Ever. My educated guess would be I've had something like 15-20% of women offer to 'help' or 'split' it. Yeah, let's treat each other "equally" though =p.

I don't doubt most women expect you to pay for first dates, and would play the +EV game. I'm just saying if your going to decide to split it (I almost always do on first dates, and say that) say it, don't play silly buggers.

Quote: 1BB

Yup. They take advantage on some forums as well.

Ha!

Ace, you will be employed for life with all these idiots out there.

When I was in the dating scene, if I suggested Applebee's and they said Naww let's go to Prime then U Knew there was no point to even having the date.

My ex wife and current wife both paid for our first dates. I have long believed that whoever asks should be paying. And they asked me out. I even turned my wife down the first time she asked. I had continuing education for my plumbing license that I had to attend and didn't want to be out late the night before. Not one to be rejected, she asked me out again the following week.
Since I'm not at all outgoing I have been asked out quite a few times. And none expressed a problem with paying.
Of course, they knew from the beginning that they shouldn't expect me to pay.

My father told me a long time ago "It's all a form of prostitution". You are going to pay everytime, one way or another.

Quote: Boz

My father told me a long time ago "It's all a form of prostitution". You are going to pay everytime, one way or another.

Very true - wasn't it Sinatra who said he doesn't pay the prostitute for sex, he pays them to leave afterwards.

Quote: aceofspades

Very true - wasn't it Sinatra who said he doesn't pay the prostitute for sex, he pays them to leave afterwards.

For Sinatra, they may have been true. For Joe Blow on the street, he's paying for both.

Quote: aceofspades

Very true - wasn't it Sinatra who said he doesn't pay the prostitute for sex, he pays them to leave afterwards.

Sinatra and Petro

Quote: petroglyph

Sinatra and Petro

HAHA

Quote: Romes

I truly believe the 5% of women he dated offered to pay. In all my life I've never had a woman offer to pay for a first date. Ever. My educated guess would be I've had something like 15-20% of women offer to 'help' or 'split' it. Yeah, let's treat each other "equally" though =p.

Romes,

I agree with what you are saying in premise but I would imagine in most cases you were the one to initiate the first date? If that is the case then I think that it can and should be expected that the initiator pays for the date. However, after you go out a few times then I believe that the equality thing comes into play.

Quote: thecesspit

For Joe Blow on the street, he's paying for both.

That really depends on the prostitute.

Quote: Romes

Almost every woman wants more than they give.

There I believe lies the problem. I think you have attached gender to a mammalian trait.

I like to go off on a misogynist roll as much as the next guy, but I know when to stop. It's "all fun until someone loses an eye". Buzz isn't here so I guess I will take a stab at respect for women. Women are just people. There are as many lousy men as there are lousy women. Percentage wise it's about like taking the right or dark side betting at craps.

The way I see it everybody are just people. Some different colors, sizes, nationalities and some are different sexes. Not focused toward you Rome but I see several people are concerned with the cost of a first date.

What does anyone want out of a date or first date? If a dater is looking for a lasting relationship, that is different then looking for a sexual encounter or trying to get the better of someone else on this and every encounter. Someone mentioned the ev of a date [focused toward women].

I hope I don't type forever here, but as an opinion we all tend to find what we are looking for, and then quit looking. So, if we are trying to spot "a gold digger", then this is probably what we find.

If we are looking for love, then first define that. I got lucky beyond any fairness in the universe. But, I realize it was luck. It certainly wasn't because of great looks or large bankroll. And sorry to say, but I realize it just won't happen for most people. It just statistically doesn't happen. So figure out what makes you happy and go for that. If we find true love, realize we have stumbled upon a statistical anomaly and if not, be as good as we can be, and from personal experience, life is too short to stay in a miserable relationship. IMHO

In the final analysis, the price of a first date is meaningless, compared to who pays, for the last one.

First off let's all agree that the guy in the OP's story, true or not, was intentionally being a dick. Whatever his motives were, he implied that he was going to pay for the expensive scotch. Manners with respect to answering your cell phone during a date aside, that's a dick move. It's a funny story, but moving on.

I think I paid for the first date with my wife, but honestly neither of us can remember. I just asked her and we both agreed I probably did. But everything is in context. At the time of our first date, she was a poor (relatively) graduate student, and I was actually not working by choice, because I was taking a few months off from my well-paying software career. So it was a no-brainer to pay, just as a gesture of good will and cognizance of the situation.

In the early days of our relationship, I usually bought drinks when we went out with friends for the same reason, although we would frequently split the tab on eating out together, or alternate back and forth. Honestly, we both fell pretty hard from the get-go, and once it was obvious that we were serious, I stopped caring because it was all eventually going to be "our" money. And so it is today, and hopefully forever.

Quote: petroglyph

There I believe lies the problem. I think you have attached gender to a mammalian trait.

I like to go off on a misogynist roll as much as the next guy, but I know when to stop. It's "all fun until someone loses an eye". Buzz isn't here so I guess I will take a stab at respect for women. Women are just people. There are as many lousy men as there are lousy women. Percentage wise it's about like taking the right or dark side betting at craps.

The way I see it everybody are just people. Some different colors, sizes, nationalities and some are different sexes. Not focused toward you Rome but I see several people are concerned with the cost of a first date.

What does anyone want out of a date or first date? If a dater is looking for a lasting relationship, that is different then looking for a sexual encounter or trying to get the better of someone else on this and every encounter. Someone mentioned the ev of a date [focused toward women].

I hope I don't type forever here, but as an opinion we all tend to find what we are looking for, and then quit looking. So, if we are trying to spot "a gold digger", then this is probably what we find.

If we are looking for love, then first define that. I got lucky beyond any fairness in the universe. But, I realize it was luck. It certainly wasn't because of great looks or large bankroll. And sorry to say, but I realize it just won't happen for most people. It just statistically doesn't happen. So figure out what makes you happy and go for that. If we find true love, realize we have stumbled upon a statistical anomaly and if not, be as good as we can be, and from personal experience, life is too short to stay in a miserable relationship. IMHO

In the final analysis, the price of a first date is meaningless, compared to who pays, for the last one.

I feel weird accepting gifts from women - makes me feel like I owe them something

I'm in a casino all day what kind of quality women do you think I meet? They usually cost $200+/hr no kissing on the lips even with a GFE :(

I always picked up the check and I don't regret a penny of it. I had a great time on most dates. A few of them were unpleasant, but I never considered picking up the dinner tab a payment for sex and never felt that women viewed it that way either. I haven't dated in a long time so maybe I am out of touch with the times, but if I had allowed a woman to pay I would have felt like a chump.

Quote: AcesAndEights

First off let's all agree that the guy in the OP's story, true or not, was intentionally being a dick. Whatever his motives were, he implied that he was going to pay for the expensive scotch. Manners with respect to answering your cell phone during a date aside, that's a dick move. It's a funny story, but moving on.

Agreed on all accounts.

Quote: petroglyph

There I believe lies the problem. I think you have attached gender to a mammalian trait.

I like to go off on a misogynist roll as much as the next guy, but I know when to stop. It's "all fun until someone loses an eye". Buzz isn't here so I guess I will take a stab at respect for women. Women are just people. There are as many lousy men as there are lousy women. Percentage wise it's about like taking the right or dark side betting at craps.

While I do agree with what you're saying, and understand why my comment could have come off as assigning that trait to women, I would like to note a couple quick things. One, I hope it was noted that I clearly mentioned numerous times "not all" women, or "in my experience" etc. I definitely don't think Woman = Selfish... just that in my experiences most woman have expected things, which brings me to point number 2. I again agree entirely with you about everybody just being people and the difference being minuscule. However, you have to remember that I am a heterosexual male. So I won't have the opportunity to have the same situations happen with a guy. While yes I'm fully aware of this, and aware of the minuscule difference in the sexes, my experiences in dating/selfishness are driven exclusively from one gender. So when I talk about that gender, I'm just talking about my experiences... and not gender assigning necessarily.

Basically I hope that you know that I know what you're saying, but ranting more because this accounts for nearly 100% of my dating experience (since I don't date both genders). I don't want to appear as 'woman hating' or anything, but I could see how that might come off in sharing my hetero dating experiences.

To keep it in your craps example... It's like the Pass player always complaining about the 7 always being rolled, where as the Don't Player would always complain about the 7 not being rolled enough. The difference between the two is tiny, but they both will have contradicting views that's purely based off of their own individual experiences. That doesn't make either of them a "7 hater" =P. They still like the 7, just at the right time LOL.

Quote: petroglyph

...I hope I don't type forever here, but as an opinion we all tend to find what we are looking for, and then quit looking. So, if we are trying to spot "a gold digger", then this is probably what we find ... In the final analysis, the price of a first date is meaningless, compared to who pays, for the last one.

Well, you might not be taking all views in to your account here. I agree once I've fallen in love with someone and want to marry them I don't care about paying for things because I hope that one day it's "our" money (don't worry Ace, I learned a lot from that 6 year relationship and know it's just good business to have a prenup lol). At the same time if it takes me going out on 10 dates with 9 gold diggers to find that 1 special someone, then yes it's worth it... but the argument isn't that. The argument is why can't we lessen the poor EV of the other 9? Why is it that women always want to be equals, except when it comes to the bill (again - just my first date experience). I've went out with a lot of stand up girls, and this is just something that seems to be instilled in all of them. I've had otherwise perfectly humble, generous, nice girls go out (even when they asked me out) and not even look at the check when it comes. I don't think just because I'm a guy, I deserve that stereotype that I'll pay for the date... especially when over the course of a year, it truly does add up! I would guess in a typical year of dating (where it didn't turn in to a long term relationship) I would spend on the bounds of $5-$10k in dating. Whether that be dates, drinks, whatever.. It's money I would still have in my pocket had I not dated anyone. That could help get me out from betting red chips =P! Again, don't get me wrong I'm happy for the experiences, lessons, and memories from dating. It's just (in my opinion) not fair for me to eat the majority/all of that cost when we're both going to share those experiences, lessons, and memories.

Quote: JimRockford

I always picked up the check and I don't regret a penny of it. I had a great time on most dates. A few of them were unpleasant, but I never considered picking up the dinner tab a payment for sex and never felt that women viewed it that way either. I haven't dated in a long time so maybe I am out of touch with the times, but if I had allowed a woman to pay I would have felt like a chump.

Me too. Funny thing is, many of the women I've dated have offered. Possibly because they know I'll never accept?
I really can't conceive of asking a woman out on a date and then expecting her to pay........

Quote: SOOPOO

...I really can't conceive of asking a woman out on a date and then expecting her to pay........

Agreed. However this isn't always so black and white. I'm old enough to date girls that still have some 'traditional' views, but I'm definitely young enough to be using apps, like Tinder or something. On these you confirm you're attracted to each other, then you chat anywhere from a day or two up to a few weeks or so. At some point it's just kind of like "okay when are we going to do something?" This is a feeling shared by both people and it's not your traditional boy see's girl, boy asks girl out on a date. A guy almost 'has' to ask. Most girls won't ask because they want a confident guy to ask. Well, in doing that they're already 'making' or 'expecting' a guy to pay for the date by making them ask. Let alone the other reason... If you don't ask, often girls will just stop replying and move on to another guy and if you call them on it they'll say "well you didn't ask me out so I didn't think you were interested." Because clearly this doesn't work two ways =/. There's your "traditional" thinking... "he should ask me out." That, in your example and this situation equates to "he should pay for the first date."

My point is there's a LOT of situations where it's quite ambiguous or the guy is more/less forced to ask the girl out/suggest doing something sometime.

I just hope I never have to start dating again. I was bad enough at it when I was younger and single, to have to start now when I'm old and fat and the plumbing isn't as good as it was then, no thanks.

And, I always paid, never cared about it, never kept score.

Back in the day I went out with my ex girlfriend from high school. We had dated on and off for like 3 years. At this point in time we had not seen each other in a couple years. She starts chatting me up on email and wants to hangout. So we went to a sushi place. When the bill came she grabbed it and paid. She then suggested we go back to my place to "hang out"... I politely declined and said I had to wake up early. She was slightly stunned I rejected her. It felt so good though.

Quote: aceofspades

Very true - wasn't it Sinatra who said he doesn't pay the prostitute for sex, he pays them to leave afterwards.

It's in the book written by his valet. He
would go and get the girl for Frank from
a call girl service and take her home
afterwards. One time he said to Frank
that 'a man in your position doesn't have
to pay for sex." To which Frank answered:
"I'm not paying them for sex, George, I'm
paying them to leave when it's over."

Only men over 30 understand this, usually.
Especially divorced men.

Quote: djatc

I'm in a casino all day what kind of quality women do you think I meet? They usually cost $200+/hr no kissing on the lips even with a GFE :(

You certainly know all the details..

I think dating for those of the new generation is not dating at all-I don't think anyone actually goes out to dinner and gets to know one another…it is usually a group of friends and everyone dates within the group (meaning they do not go out on dates but go out as a group or, make microwave popcorn and watch tv with one another)

I think women in their 30's and older (I am going to catch hell for this), for some reason, believe they are god's gift and think the man has to "earn" dates with them - F&*! that!

Quote: Mosca

And, I always paid, never cared about it, never kept score.

I've known enough cheapskate guys who
never paid, they always made the girl pay
for her own. Ask any dating woman and
she'll verify there are a lot of jerks like
that out there.

Quote: aceofspades

I think women in their 30's and older (I am going to catch hell for this), for some reason,
believe they are god's gift and think the man has to "earn" dates with them

I've read it's a coastal thing. On both
coasts women think they're worth far
more than they are, in the South and
Midwest they are much friendlier and
fairer. A friend got transferred to Alabama
about 10 years ago and said he never
got laid so much. The women were super
friendly on every level, the opposite of
NYC where he was from.

Quote: EvenBob

I've read it's a coastal thing. On both
coasts women think they're worth far
more than they are, in the South and
Midwest they are much friendlier and
fairer.

I've heard it's an American thing too—seems from stories I've heard, women in Europe and South America are much more relaxed about dating and do not hide the fact they love men—whereas the puritanical attitude of American women is that what is between their legs is worth it's weight in platinum and that it can basically be sold to the highest bidder

Quote: Mosca

I just hope I never have to start dating again. I was bad enough at it when I was younger and single, to have to start now when I'm old and fat and the plumbing isn't as good as it was then, no thanks.

And, I always paid, never cared about it, never kept score.

Same here. I don't envy anyone for being single and wanting to find that special someone.

No love, is better than bad love.

Quote: petroglyph

There I believe lies the problem. I think you have attached gender to a mammalian trait.

I like to go off on a misogynist roll as much as the next guy, but I know when to stop. It's "all fun until someone loses an eye". Buzz isn't here so I guess I will take a stab at respect for women. Women are just people. There are as many lousy men as there are lousy women. Percentage wise it's about like taking the right or dark side betting at craps.

The way I see it everybody are just people. Some different colors, sizes, nationalities and some are different sexes. Not focused toward you Rome but I see several people are concerned with the cost of a first date.

What does anyone want out of a date or first date? If a dater is looking for a lasting relationship, that is different then looking for a sexual encounter or trying to get the better of someone else on this and every encounter. Someone mentioned the ev of a date [focused toward women].

I hope I don't type forever here, but as an opinion we all tend to find what we are looking for, and then quit looking. So, if we are trying to spot "a gold digger", then this is probably what we find.

If we are looking for love, then first define that. I got lucky beyond any fairness in the universe. But, I realize it was luck. It certainly wasn't because of great looks or large bankroll. And sorry to say, but I realize it just won't happen for most people. It just statistically doesn't happen. So figure out what makes you happy and go for that. If we find true love, realize we have stumbled upon a statistical anomaly and if not, be as good as we can be, and from personal experience, life is too short to stay in a miserable relationship. IMHO

In the final analysis, the price of a first date is meaningless, compared to who pays, for the last one.

Thanks, Petro. Well said.

Quote: Romes

When it comes to dating... Women are the APs with a VERY +EV game.

Yeah, and she knows if we are going to sleep together or not. I don't. That pisses me off.

Quote: aceofspades

Quote: petroglyph

There I believe lies the problem. I think you have attached gender to a mammalian trait.

I like to go off on a misogynist roll as much as the next guy, but I know when to stop. It's "all fun until someone loses an eye". Buzz isn't here so I guess I will take a stab at respect for women. Women are just people. There are as many lousy men as there are lousy women. Percentage wise it's about like taking the right or dark side betting at craps.

The way I see it everybody are just people. Some different colors, sizes, nationalities and some are different sexes. Not focused toward you Rome but I see several people are concerned with the cost of a first date.

What does anyone want out of a date or first date? If a dater is looking for a lasting relationship, that is different then looking for a sexual encounter or trying to get the better of someone else on this and every encounter. Someone mentioned the ev of a date [focused toward women].

I hope I don't type forever here, but as an opinion we all tend to find what we are looking for, and then quit looking. So, if we are trying to spot "a gold digger", then this is probably what we find.

If we are looking for love, then first define that. I got lucky beyond any fairness in the universe. But, I realize it was luck. It certainly wasn't because of great looks or large bankroll. And sorry to say, but I realize it just won't happen for most people. It just statistically doesn't happen. So figure out what makes you happy and go for that. If we find true love, realize we have stumbled upon a statistical anomaly and if not, be as good as we can be, and from personal experience, life is too short to stay in a miserable relationship. IMHO

In the final analysis, the price of a first date is meaningless, compared to who pays, for the last one.

"I feel weird accepting gifts from women - makes me feel like I owe them something"

Well,,, you do. But it's not tangible.

That's what the price is , time.

Quote: Mosca

I just hope I never have to start dating again. I was bad enough at it when I was younger and single, to have to start now when I'm old and fat and the plumbing isn't as good as it was then, no thanks.

And, I always paid, never cared about it, never kept score.

+1

It's to my understanding whoever initially asks the other on the date pays, at least for dinner. It's not often girls ask guys on a date, if they are that interested in you, enough to ask you out, you can probably just skip the date and suggest heading to your pad to"hang out".

Being a guy and paying for a date just seems to be part of life as a guy. If your lucky enough, and they like you, then the benefits outweigh the cost of the date.

Women don't need YOU for a date, they usually don't have any problems finding one.

9 times out of 10 I wouldn't do dinner on a first date anyways. Oftentimes there's to much awkwardness, it's better to do something fun. Amusement park, pool, go carts, party, comedy club, show. If that goes well then go you can go from there.

Vegas is cheap so I can't imagine dating in NYC.

I've had a few girls insist on paying its not unheard of.

Girls shouldn't go unprepared(Most girls bring some cash just in case) and just expect a guy to pay for everything and take advantage of the situation, but the guy in the story is playing dirty IMO. He knows dam well its customary for the guys to pay and he should just be upfront with them. It's called a dick move.

"A man's face is his autobiography. A woman's face is her work of fiction." - Oscar Wilde

Homeless guy survives by picking up women

Quote: aceofspades

"A man's face is his autobiography. A woman's face is her work of fiction." - Oscar Wilde

That's not fair. My face already wore out two body's.