Face
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:15:43 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

Having family in Massachusetts, I'm familiar with their gun laws which are among the strictest in the nation.



"By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty". So much for that, I suppose.

Been trying to come up with a name and motto for the new 50th state (or 52nd, or 57th, depending on who you ask). Figure we'll just make downstate a "district" like DC so we don't have to update Old Glory. Perhaps "Oneka" (AH-nee-KAH), which is an amalgamation of all the Iroquois tribe's word for "freshwater". Pretty sure "ON" is available for a postal abbreviation. It's a work in progress. Still clueless on a motto and state flag, but I'm working on it. Perhaps my coup will provide inspiration ;)

Quote: Gandler

A list of George Zimmerman's past run-ins with the law.



Lol, I hope I never have to shoot someone. Gonna need to split my list into separate posts so you don't crash the forum ;)

I will say I'm surprised, shocked, even, that he was allowed to keep a CC permit after a "granted order of protection for domestic violence". If I got slapped with one here, the SS would've been at my door yesterday.
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rxwine
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:37:25 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Not sure who was stalking someone. Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch, a good thing in a place that was suffering a high crime rate. Now if I am walking down the street and the watch person confronts me I am just going to say where I live and thank hoom for watching the place.
.



People go off on the government for intrusion but will give up unnecessary information to a nobody who has zero authority in a public street. And will even praise them for doing it.
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Gandler
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January 11th, 2015 at 8:06:43 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

People go off on the government for intrusion but will give up unnecessary information to a nobody who has zero authority in a public street. And will even praise them for doing it.



It was a private gated housing community. He was a designated watchman. He had just has much if not more reason as the police to care about who was in the private neighborhood.

Even on public streets anyone can go anywhere. Somebody has any right to ask questions of a stranger on the street. As long as you are not threatening it is 100% legal for anyone to go up to anyone else and inquire about anything they are doing. They have every right to ignore you, but they have no right to attack you.
Face
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January 11th, 2015 at 8:50:22 PM permalink
Quote: terapined


I cant believe EB or AZ are arguing about how I feel. I feel how I feel.



I think it might be because, from our (at least my) experiences, it does not compute.

Forget for a moment that each of you have differing opinions on whether he murdered someone or defended himself. Let's just assume you're right and he's a kook. A kook that just lost his guns.

"Feeling safer" does not compute because your safety has not changed. A law, a decree, an order from the Governor himself does not change it.

I frequently reference my own statement, which I've made here and at DT before. Before Obama started with the ban talk, I got what you would call an "assault rifle". When Supreme Leader dropped the SAFEAct, I went nuts. 30 round mags, armor piercing ammo, tracers, the lot. Every time Pops or I went to a free state like NC or WY, we came back with toys. Ever been to a free state's gun store? I have wargasms just thinking about it ;)

Just as the SAFEAct dropped, my statement was finished. We pieced together an M-4. I made it as illegal as possible. Pistol grip, forward pistol grip, 30rd mag, muzzle break, and the pièce de résistance, modified it to full auto functionality. Now, I own an actual assault rifle, in full violation of several state and federal laws.

I did all of this in an anti-gun state, at the height of the anti-gun movement, and did it wide open, telling anyone who would listen of what I did. There's even a vid on DT of me using it. There's a vid on Facebook of me using it. The numbers of papers and orders and decrees that I'm in violation of boggle the mind. My second statement? Procuring another banned rifle for a Sheriff friend from the neighboring county.

How'd I do that? How was I able to get a banned rifle? How was I able to get a banned rifle and turn it into a legitimate militarized weapon? How could I go so far, when there's all these papers telling me I can't?

That's why EB, AZD, and now Face (I warned ya ;)), are up your butt. What you're saying does not compute. We're assuming Zim is a kook. The judge rightfully took his weapons. Now Zim has 3 less options. 3 out of 300,000,000. And you still have 1,500,000 other permit holders in Fla. And don't forget the bangers for whom a piece of paper means even less than it does me.

An order makes you feel safe. Really, really think about that thought, for your own sake. That thought alone, in my opinion, drastically increases your vulnerability.
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rxwine
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:32:33 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I got what you would call an "assault rifle".



Reminds me, you ever follow the NFL concussion controversy? Some of the players have become violent.

Just wondering if you worry about too many hockey concussions.
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rxwine
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January 11th, 2015 at 9:58:20 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

It was a private gated housing community. He was a designated watchman. He had just has much if not more reason as the police to care about who was in the private neighborhood.

Even on public streets anyone can go anywhere. Somebody has any right to ask questions of a stranger on the street. As long as you are not threatening it is 100% legal for anyone to go up to anyone else and inquire about anything they are doing. They have every right to ignore you, but they have no right to attack you.



I've successfully reported suspicious people without getting into an altercation. It's not hard. Zimmerman just is not too smart. Nor is he a policeman. Nor was he capable of taking on Martin without a gun. Nor was he capable of outrunning Martin. Nor did he have any real backup when he decided to follow Martin. He basically was going to shoot someone sooner or later doing this routine with the gun as his only reasonable solution when he eventually got in over his head.

A fight at school is not that out of ordinary for someone's Martin's age. He made a decision some kids might make. Teens are known to be impulsive which gets them into trouble. Zimmerman wasn't an investigator. He observed no crime, where at least one could make more sense of what happened. Treyvon hadn't just committed a robbery, nor was Zimmerman in a police uniform -- so it's not even close to something like the Brown situation.

There are so many "FAILs" as regard Zimmerman, it's too bad his gun was returned to this dummy.
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Gandler
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January 11th, 2015 at 10:35:11 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I've successfully reported suspicious people without getting into an altercation. It's not hard. Zimmerman just is not too smart. Nor is he a policeman. Nor was he capable of taking on Martin without a gun. Nor was he capable of outrunning Martin. Nor did he have any real backup when he decided to follow Martin. He basically was going to shoot someone sooner or later doing this routine with the gun as his only reasonable solution when he eventually got in over his head.

A fight at school is not that out of ordinary for someone's Martin's age. He made a decision some kids might make. Teens are known to be impulsive which gets them into trouble. Zimmerman wasn't an investigator. He observed no crime, where at least one could make more sense of what happened. Treyvon hadn't just committed a robbery, nor was Zimmerman in a police uniform -- so it's not even close to something like the Brown situation.

There are so many "FAILs" as regard Zimmerman, it's too bad his gun was returned to this dummy.



And, a single speeding ticket is not an unusual record for somebody Zimmerman's age.

-There were no fails everything he did was legal as the jury determined. It was a private neighborhood and Zimmerman saw a suspicious looking person who he did not recognize. And, Martine has a more sullied background for that, including marijuana use, and stolen property, as well as Lean (the reason he has skittles and Fruit Juice, was likely to make lean since he was just talking to somebody on facebook about getting it...)
Face
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January 12th, 2015 at 10:00:29 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Reminds me, you ever follow the NFL concussion controversy? Some of the players have become violent.

Just wondering if you worry about too many hockey concussions.



I follow it very closely. I take personal inventory often. Still about as non-violent as Gandhi (ice time excluded). While CTE is a near guarantee in my case, I think I'm still too young for it to surface (going by the small bank of knowledge on the subject). I also have a deep support system of family and gunners, any of whom I could talk to or surrender my guns to, should I notice a personality change. So far, all systems are operational.

Also, great point on Zim, one that everyone should take notice of regardless of position. "Shoot someone eventually"? Yup. Look for trouble and you will eventually find it. And when he found it, he put himself in the position where the gun was the only recourse. Better have more than a hunter's safety course under your belt.
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Romes
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January 12th, 2015 at 10:23:49 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

How many of the above was he convicted on?


LOL...

Guns - Innocent until proven guilty!
Card Counting in CET property - GUILTY, JUST GUILTY!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Face
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January 12th, 2015 at 11:28:10 AM permalink
Since this thread is totally off the rails, I'm gonna make a purely political post here...

There's a lot of talk about "histories". Zim's run ins with the law, Martin's drug use, etc. We all use these to bolster our cases. We should. We have to. It's all we got to go on. But is it "right"?

Allow me to put myself on paper. From the ages of 7 to 17, I received 5 concussions. 3 of them severe enough to cause lasting psychological and neurological issues. At 34 my current total is 29, and brain damage is a guarantee. From 18 to 26, I was heavily into drug use. Lots and of all kinds. I am an addict. I suffer from depression occasionally. At one time, I was medicated for it. I have a long, long list of risk taking behavior, one that began at 8 and is still going strong. I've been in a lot of fights. My police record includes possession, hit and run from a property damage accident (x2), at least 5 instances of criminal reckless endangerment (145+ in a 55 zone), and a whole damn bunch of 3rd degree fleeing from a police officer. That last I was good at, so none of them are on my record. And then, of course, is the list of illegal weapons I possess.

That's my paper. Would you give that guy a gun? Would you even give him a carrot peeler? Regardless of what may not be apparent from the paper, there is a proven trend of disregarding the law. There's a proven trend of pushing limits. On paper, this guy is a loose cannon, if not actually insane.

How does my paper jive with my person? There are many here who I've been conversing with for 5 years. Many here who have read the multitude of things I've posted. Does my paper give a close approximation of who you know me to be? Or does it rather belie the person behind the paper?

"The paper" gets a lot of credit, doesn't it? Those who want tougher gun laws, those who just want change, it's all about the paper. But what can a paper do? A paper didn't keep guns out of the hands of a brain damaged, risk taking, addiction riddled forum moderator. It didn't keep a militarized assault rifle out of his hands, either. It couldn't keep guns out of NYC; now two cops are dead. 8,500 people will be murdered by a gun this year in the US. I haven't researched completely, but I'm pretty sure if I did, I'd find a piece of paper that says murder is not OK.

I don't give a wet fart your opinion, your background, or your political affiliation. We ALL have a problem with the gun culture. But until you realize a piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper, none of us have a hope in hell of getting a single thing changed.

This is going to take real work. This is my part. I decided I was going to make a difference. I searched for info. I found it. I got educated. And now I take any opportunity to pass it along and make people hungry for more. Here in a post, at home over a bowl of oatmeal, at work around the water cooler. Anytime guns are mentioned, I'm there. Giving the info I know, encouraging people to seek out more. Maybe I've only reached three people in the last 5 years. But those are three people who aren't going to have an accidental discharge, three people who aren't going to drop their weapon at Burger King, three people who aren't going to get themselves into a situation they're not prepared for. It's only three people. But it's done more good than all of those pieces of paper have, combined.

What if everyone reached three people? Isn't that real change? Change that made a difference?

Terapined, you can prohibit guns in your home. You can support a gun free establishment. You can cheer for Zim losing his guns. But your life hasn't changed. Your safety hasn't changed. And isn't that the point of it all?

We need to realize that WE are not each other's enemy. You give money to the Brady Campaign, I give it to the NRA, we get pushed into opposing sides, and we fight. And in the end, we hate each other, we're both out money, and all we get in return is a goddamned piece of paper. A piece of paper that changes NOTHING. A piece of paper that means NOTHING.

WE have to make the change. WE, me and you, TOGETHER. That means educating ourselves and focusing on what matters. Pro gun, anti gun, that's not important. Worse, it's divisive. It keeps us busy fighting, allowing the problem to rage on unchecked. Rather that "fight for my rights" by arguing with some EU loving socialist, my time would be much better spent leading by example. Encouraging people to get training, training myself, and discouraging things I see by carriers that are unsafe or unwise. You could do the same. You could go to the rebel flag flyin' gun store and put a bunch of daisies in their barrels, but your time would be much better spent educating yourself on proper gun use and passing it along. You can't get away from guns. You CAN effect how they are used. You CAN change the mind of the carrier. You CAN increase your actual safety, as opposed to your illusion of safety.

Or we can dump our assets to our respective political parties and see whose paper is bigger. The choice is yours. The choice, is OURS.

/politarding
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AxelWolf
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January 12th, 2015 at 11:33:19 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

LOL...

Guns - Innocent until proven guilty!
Card Counting in CET property - GUILTY, JUST GUILTY!

I have seen a trend with Gandler taking the unpopular side of things.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AZDuffman
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January 12th, 2015 at 11:49:53 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Since this thread is totally off the rails, I'm gonna make a purely political post here...

There's a lot of talk about "histories". Zim's run ins with the law, Martin's drug use, etc. We all use these to bolster our cases. We should. We have to. It's all we got to go on. But is it "right"?

Allow me to put myself on paper. From the ages of 7 to 17, I received 5 concussions. 3 of them severe enough to cause lasting psychological and neurological issues. At 34 my current total is 29, and brain damage is a guarantee. From 18 to 26, I was heavily into drug use. Lots and of all kinds. I am an addict. I suffer from depression occasionally. At one time, I was medicated for it. I have a long, long list of risk taking behavior, one that began at 8 and is still going strong. I've been in a lot of fights. My police record includes possession, hit and run from a property damage accident (x2), at least 5 instances of criminal reckless endangerment (145+ in a 55 zone), and a whole damn bunch of 3rd degree fleeing from a police officer. That last I was good at, so none of them are on my record. And then, of course, is the list of illegal weapons I possess.

That's my paper. Would you give that guy a gun? Would you even give him a carrot peeler? Regardless of what may not be apparent from the paper, there is a proven trend of disregarding the law. There's a proven trend of pushing limits. On paper, this guy is a loose cannon, if not actually insane.




That is quite a yellow sheet you have. Don't take this the wrong way, but with such a sheet you were put in a fairly high casino position? Not sure how the tribal investigations go, but here in PA my guess is you could not get "Key Employee" status. To be a dealer they wanted 20 years of work history no matter how short the job, though I assume for a regular work card they cut back on some of that. But if the casino put you there, then sir I say you must have put things behind you fairly well.

That being said, see my post on DT and the guy with the kid. Knowing you here, I don't see many issues. I am against not allowing guns to people for "depression" because it is quite frankly a catch-all in mental health. My read is that you were one of those guys who went wild until age 30 then cleaned up. If I were in the Sheriff's Dept I would probably call you in and have a very serious talk. I would use some ability to read how your life is right now. But no gun or real criminal convictions on said yellow, you have a good chance with me.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Face
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January 12th, 2015 at 12:21:11 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

That is quite a yellow sheet you have. Don't take this the wrong way, but with such a sheet you were put in a fairly high casino position? Not sure how the tribal investigations go, but here in PA my guess is you could not get "Key Employee" status. To be a dealer they wanted 20 years of work history no matter how short the job, though I assume for a regular work card they cut back on some of that. But if the casino put you there, then sir I say you must have put things behind you fairly well.

That being said, see my post on DT and the guy with the kid. Knowing you here, I don't see many issues. I am against not allowing guns to people for "depression" because it is quite frankly a catch-all in mental health. My read is that you were one of those guys who went wild until age 30 then cleaned up. If I were in the Sheriff's Dept I would probably call you in and have a very serious talk. I would use some ability to read how your life is right now. But no gun or real criminal convictions on said yellow, you have a good chance with me.



Like I'd take offense =)

At the casino I had the highest license possible. I could go into the count room during the count, I could stop it, I could audit it, I could cancel it. I could go to the CEO or GM and start demanding stuff. If he wasn't there, I could just go in his office and start pulling files. In the regulatory hierarchy, I was special ops.

I think both the casino and the guns were a product of me not being an asshat throughout all the rough patches in my life. My "paper", as I wrote it, is what actually happened. I don't know how much is on the actual one if you were to request it be printed, but I do know it's not as complete as my own list. Mostly, like I said, was because I was never an asshat. Even when I was tripping balls while being detained and questioned, I was still playing the "smile and a handshake" game. As a result, I got a lot of leeway.

The possession was ripped up by the issuing officer. The hit and runs I both paid for without trial. Of the 5 times I was pulled over for 145+, I only got two tickets, both reduced to <80. And the one time I got pinched for fleeing, I got a smile and a handshake. 165 right past the casino, got noticed, ran from county, caught by the local, didn't even have a headlight OR turn signals OR a properly displayed license plate. But I got my smile and a handshake =D

I was never a thief, never a fraud. Never had credit problems. Never took a bunch of drugs and lost my mind. Never started a bar fight or resisted the directives of an officer. I was just a high strung guy with an invincibility complex. For both the key and the gun, I admitted previous depression and medication, admitted to past drug use, admitted to the possession ticket regardless that it got ripped up, laughed when he asked to list my traffic infractions, got him to laugh after he saw what I meant. I suppose, in these cases, the paper was only part of it. I imagine references mattered a great deal, as did the in-person interview. And I suspect they saw that the paper and the person didn't jive, I dunno. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe the system is broken. I dunno.
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Gandler
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January 12th, 2015 at 12:33:48 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Since this thread is totally off the rails, I'm gonna make a purely political post here...

There's a lot of talk about "histories". Zim's run ins with the law, Martin's drug use, etc. We all use these to bolster our cases. We should. We have to. It's all we got to go on. But is it "right"?

Allow me to put myself on paper. From the ages of 7 to 17, I received 5 concussions. 3 of them severe enough to cause lasting psychological and neurological issues. At 34 my current total is 29, and brain damage is a guarantee. From 18 to 26, I was heavily into drug use. Lots and of all kinds. I am an addict. I suffer from depression occasionally. At one time, I was medicated for it. I have a long, long list of risk taking behavior, one that began at 8 and is still going strong. I've been in a lot of fights. My police record includes possession, hit and run from a property damage accident (x2), at least 5 instances of criminal reckless endangerment (145+ in a 55 zone), and a whole damn bunch of 3rd degree fleeing from a police officer. That last I was good at, so none of them are on my record. And then, of course, is the list of illegal weapons I possess.

That's my paper. Would you give that guy a gun? Would you even give him a carrot peeler? Regardless of what may not be apparent from the paper, there is a proven trend of disregarding the law. There's a proven trend of pushing limits. On paper, this guy is a loose cannon, if not actually insane.

How does my paper jive with my person? There are many here who I've been conversing with for 5 years. Many here who have read the multitude of things I've posted. Does my paper give a close approximation of who you know me to be? Or does it rather belie the person behind the paper?

"The paper" gets a lot of credit, doesn't it? Those who want tougher gun laws, those who just want change, it's all about the paper. But what can a paper do? A paper didn't keep guns out of the hands of a brain damaged, risk taking, addiction riddled forum moderator. It didn't keep a militarized assault rifle out of his hands, either. It couldn't keep guns out of NYC; now two cops are dead. 8,500 people will be murdered by a gun this year in the US. I haven't researched completely, but I'm pretty sure if I did, I'd find a piece of paper that says murder is not OK.

I don't give a wet fart your opinion, your background, or your political affiliation. We ALL have a problem with the gun culture. But until you realize a piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper, none of us have a hope in hell of getting a single thing changed.

This is going to take real work. This is my part. I decided I was going to make a difference. I searched for info. I found it. I got educated. And now I take any opportunity to pass it along and make people hungry for more. Here in a post, at home over a bowl of oatmeal, at work around the water cooler. Anytime guns are mentioned, I'm there. Giving the info I know, encouraging people to seek out more. Maybe I've only reached three people in the last 5 years. But those are three people who aren't going to have an accidental discharge, three people who aren't going to drop their weapon at Burger King, three people who aren't going to get themselves into a situation they're not prepared for. It's only three people. But it's done more good than all of those pieces of paper have, combined.

What if everyone reached three people? Isn't that real change? Change that made a difference?

Terapined, you can prohibit guns in your home. You can support a gun free establishment. You can cheer for Zim losing his guns. But your life hasn't changed. Your safety hasn't changed. And isn't that the point of it all?

We need to realize that WE are not each other's enemy. You give money to the Brady Campaign, I give it to the NRA, we get pushed into opposing sides, and we fight. And in the end, we hate each other, we're both out money, and all we get in return is a goddamned piece of paper. A piece of paper that changes NOTHING. A piece of paper that means NOTHING.

WE have to make the change. WE, me and you, TOGETHER. That means educating ourselves and focusing on what matters. Pro gun, anti gun, that's not important. Worse, it's divisive. It keeps us busy fighting, allowing the problem to rage on unchecked. Rather that "fight for my rights" by arguing with some EU loving socialist, my time would be much better spent leading by example. Encouraging people to get training, training myself, and discouraging things I see by carriers that are unsafe or unwise. You could do the same. You could go to the rebel flag flyin' gun store and put a bunch of daisies in their barrels, but your time would be much better spent educating yourself on proper gun use and passing it along. You can't get away from guns. You CAN effect how they are used. You CAN change the mind of the carrier. You CAN increase your actual safety, as opposed to your illusion of safety.

Or we can dump our assets to our respective political parties and see whose paper is bigger. The choice is yours. The choice, is OURS.

/politarding



I would give you a gun (granted I would give most Americans guns). You seem extremely clear thinking. If CET trusted you to run surveillance you must be a logical person.

Not to mention, you seem like a very honest and open person to admit so much online.

You have as much right to bear arms as I or anyone does (if not more).

All of our gun permits were issued in 1791.
Face
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January 12th, 2015 at 1:10:12 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I would give you a gun (granted I would give most Americans guns). You seem extremely clear thinking. If CET tribal trusted you to run surveillance you must be a logical person.



Fixed.

You might give me one. Others would not. But what does that matter?

I'll keep picking on terapined for a moment. He sees the CTE, the addiction, the risk taking, the penchant for searching for that adrenaline fix. He don't want me to have a gun no way. And that's OK. He doesn't feel safe with a weapon on my hip. He wants to feel safe.

What's his recourse? Write his governor? Vote for Hillary? Funnel money to Brady? We don't even have to suppose what would happen. It's already happened. A paper says I can't have my AR. I have one. A paper says I have committed a crime. I am a criminal. A paper says a criminal can't own a handgun. I have a pile of them. And I'm not exactly skulking around in the shadows or making myself all that hard to find. Laughably, I shoot my illegal guns with the county Sheriff. I shoot my illegal guns with a guy who's an explosives expert with the DHS. I shoot my illegal guns with a guy from the TSA. The local officer, the Chief of Police, the County Sheriff, I even have a friend in the SS State Police who is completely aware of my activities. And here I am, typing away at home, with my loaded Glock sitting right here, my loaded Ruger in the next room, a cache of boomsticks and rifles right behind me, and other caches which may or may not exist either here or at other properties, real or imagined =p

I'm just trying to make a change. Cigs are far more deadly than any gun. We don't ban them. We don't make criminals out of smokers. We don't make it a crime to puff. But we damn sure need to do something, right? So we educate. We have programs in school, we have help-quit phone lines, we have pamphlets, we have commercials, we have education. And all the stats over all the demographics for usage and resulting illnesses go down, down, down. NOT by threat, NOT by punishment, NOT by legislation. Just good, old fashioned, purely beneficial education.

We know what works. We know what doesn't. So why aren't we getting to work?
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Gandler
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January 12th, 2015 at 1:18:42 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Quote: Gandler

I would give you a gun (granted I would give most Americans guns). You seem extremely clear thinking. If CET tribal trusted you to run surveillance you must be a logical person.



Fixed.

You might give me one. Others would not. But what does that matter?

I'll keep picking on terapined for a moment. He sees the CTE, the addiction, the risk taking, the penchant for searching for that adrenaline fix. He don't want me to have a gun no way. And that's OK. He doesn't feel safe with a weapon on my hip. He wants to feel safe.

What's his recourse? Write his governor? Vote for Hillary? Funnel money to Brady? We don't even have to suppose what would happen. It's already happened. A paper says I can't have my AR. I have one. A paper says I have committed a crime. I am a criminal. A paper says a criminal can't own a handgun. I have a pile of them. And I'm not exactly skulking around in the shadows or making myself all that hard to find. Laughably, I shoot my illegal guns with the county Sheriff. I shoot my illegal guns with a guy who's an explosives expert with the DHS. I shoot my illegal guns with a guy from the TSA. The local officer, the Chief of Police, the County Sheriff, I even have a friend in the SS State Police who is completely aware of my activities. And here I am, typing away at home, with my loaded Glock sitting right here, my loaded Ruger in the next room, a cache of boomsticks and rifles right behind me, and other caches which may or may not exist either here or at other properties, real or imagined =p

I'm just trying to make a change. Cigs are far more deadly than any gun. We don't ban them. We don't make criminals out of smokers. We don't make it a crime to puff. But we damn sure need to do something, right? So we educate. We have programs in school, we have help-quit phone lines, we have pamphlets, we have commercials, we have education. And all the stats over all the demographics for usage and resulting illnesses go down, down, down. NOT by threat, NOT by punishment, NOT by legislation. Just good, old fashioned, purely beneficial education.

We know what works. We know what doesn't. So why aren't we getting to work?



Cigarettes are actually a great analogy. Banning cigarettes and taxing does not directly lower smoking rates (it just significantly increases the tobacco black market).

Also, I wonder if all of the people against guns in casinos are avid supporters of smoking in casinos. I guarantee them constant second hand smoke is more of a risk than somebody walking around with a gun on their waist.

To clarify I am not saying smoking should be banned. Casinos should have the right to choose what they wish to allow for both guns and tobacco... But, its just an ironic comparison.


But you are right education and training is always the most important facet. You can make endless amount of Draconian Laws, that just makes things more appealing (look at drug laws). If people actually understand the science about the damage they are doing to themselves, they will change.
terapined
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January 12th, 2015 at 1:27:13 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Not sure who was stalking someone. Zimmerman was on neighborhood watch, a good thing in a place that was suffering a high crime rate. Now if I am walking down the street and the watch person confronts me I am just going to say where I live and thank hoom for watching the place.

The "nut case" was Martin who felt the need to attack someone.



Zim, there is something just not adding up.
If the police ever want to talk to me, I answer the door.
They are busy.
But to Zim, he will leave police standing at the door for hours.
Not only a nut, a selfish nut.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GEORGE_ZIMMERMAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

"Officers patrolling the neighborhood where Zimmerman lives last week heard the sound of glass shattering, and then saw the former girlfriend drive out of the driveway. They pulled her over for a traffic stop a few streets over because she didn't have her lights on."

"Zimmerman was arrested at his house on Friday, four days after the confrontation. Detectives said in the police report that he refused to come to the door for more than two hours despite their repeated knocking. They said they could hear the television on and a dog barking."
Gandler
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January 13th, 2015 at 1:56:48 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Zim, there is something just not adding up.
If the police ever want to talk to me, I answer the door.
They are busy.
But to Zim, he will leave police standing at the door for hours.
Not only a nut, a selfish nut.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GEORGE_ZIMMERMAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

"Officers patrolling the neighborhood where Zimmerman lives last week heard the sound of glass shattering, and then saw the former girlfriend drive out of the driveway. They pulled her over for a traffic stop a few streets over because she didn't have her lights on."

"Zimmerman was arrested at his house on Friday, four days after the confrontation. Detectives said in the police report that he refused to come to the door for more than two hours despite their repeated knocking. They said they could hear the television on and a dog barking."



If they had a warrant they should have breached the door.
mcallister3200
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January 13th, 2015 at 2:28:06 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

And, a single speeding ticket is not an unusual record for somebody Zimmerman's age.

-There were no fails everything he did was legal as the jury determined. It was a private neighborhood and Zimmerman saw a suspicious looking person who he did not recognize. And, Martine has a more sullied background for that, including marijuana use, and stolen property, as well as Lean (the reason he has skittles and Fruit Juice, was likely to make lean since he was just talking to somebody on facebook about getting it...)

oh dear, marijuana use, how horrible, there goes the neighborhood.
Gandler
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January 13th, 2015 at 2:52:00 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

oh dear, marijuana use, how horrible, there goes the neighborhood.



I don't think encouraging minors to use drugs is proper... And marjjuana use is far from the only thing about his background.
mcallister3200
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January 13th, 2015 at 3:01:21 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I don't think encouraging minors to use drugs is proper... And marjjuana use is far from the only thing about his background.

I wouldn't encourage it, same as I wouldn't encourage minors(or adults for that matter) to use tobacco or alcohol. It's just not a big deal. It makes you cool with being lazy, and that's not cool, but I don't think it's a big deal(I suppose I would say it's about as bad as speeding 15 miles over.)
Gandler
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January 13th, 2015 at 3:07:06 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

I wouldn't encourage it, same as I wouldn't encourage minors(or adults for that matter) to use tobacco or alcohol. It's just not a big deal. It makes you cool with being lazy, and that's not cool, but I don't think it's a big deal(I suppose I would say it's about as bad as speeding 15 miles over.)



I agree. Actually I think marijuana needs to be legal. The Justice system wastes far too much money enforcing drug laws.

That being said if somebody has a violent behavior background and uses drugs, well that can be a bad sign more their mental state on a certain night.
FleaStiff
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January 13th, 2015 at 3:52:56 PM permalink
There is a big difference between carry and carry in Vegas.

In Florida, nowadays you fire a gun inside of or into a residence, they view the bullet as a missle ... and they charge you as a Terrorist. Which affects bail and flight and their statistics. So some drunk who shoots his tv set gets indicted for terrorism but the sheriff gets headlines and points from the justice department. And our society marches onward to an Orwellian future.
Face
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Face
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January 13th, 2015 at 4:23:08 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

...nowadays you fire a gun inside of or into a residence, they view the bullet as a missle ... and they charge you as a Terrorist.



LOL! Quite the resume I've built myself. And here I thought I was merely a felon ;)
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Tanko
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January 17th, 2015 at 3:13:27 PM permalink
If you find yourself in a situation where you need a weapon to defend yourself, then the perp already has the strategic advantage.

It is nearly impossible to defend against that.

Gandler
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January 17th, 2015 at 3:29:01 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

If you find yourself in a situation where you need a weapon to defend yourself, then the perp already has the strategic advantage.

It is nearly impossible to defend against that.



Not necessarily.if somebody pulls a knife on you in an alley and asks for money, and you pull a gun, you will win.

Also, just having a gun visible (open carry) will probably deter a large majority of potential muggers.
terapined
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January 17th, 2015 at 4:11:04 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

If you find yourself in a situation where you need a weapon to defend yourself, then the perp already has the strategic advantage.

It is nearly impossible to defend against that.



If you find yourself struck by lightning, its impossible to defend against.
Tanko
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January 17th, 2015 at 4:59:51 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Not necessarily.if somebody pulls a knife on you in an alley and asks for money, and you pull a gun, you will win.

Also, just having a gun visible (open carry) will probably deter a large majority of potential muggers.




Perhaps you should watch the video again.

Every one of those trained officers was 'stabbed' multiple times before he had the chance to draw his weapon.

Carrying a gun openly can be deterrent, but if someone has the strategic advantage, i.e. his weapon is already drawn, you have little chance of defending yourself successfully.
Gandler
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January 17th, 2015 at 5:49:34 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Perhaps you should watch the video again.

Every one of those trained officers was 'stabbed' multiple times before he had the chance to draw his weapon.

Carrying a gun openly can be deterrent, but if someone has the strategic advantage, i.e. his weapon is already drawn, you have little chance of defending yourself successfully.



But most muggers are not out to attack you, nor will they usually. They just want to intimidate you. If you draw your weapon they will not usually know how to respond. That video portrays the mugger as a tactical knife expert which in reality is pretty much never. They are just holding knives to scare you.
Baccaratfrom79
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January 17th, 2015 at 7:19:12 PM permalink
If you are worried about someone seeing you with a large sum of money (say well over $10k) just use the private room available at all casino for cash transactions. No one will see you and no one will know what you have and where on your person you put it. Been doing this for three decades in Vegas and AC, never a problem.
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
AxelWolf
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January 19th, 2015 at 7:15:07 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Quote: Tanko

If you find yourself in a situation where you need a weapon to defend yourself, then the perp already has the strategic advantage.

It is nearly impossible to defend against that.



Not necessarily.if somebody pulls a knife on you in an alley and asks for money, and you pull a gun, you will win.

Also, just having a gun visible (open carry) will probably deter a large majority of potential muggers.

Theres not many alleys in Vegas that you need to enter for no reason.

I will admit there are situations a gun might come in handy but probably not during a Vegas Vacation.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
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January 27th, 2015 at 2:24:45 AM permalink
http://thegazette.com/subject/opinion/blogs/lynda-waddington/why-your-gun-makes-me-nervous-20150110?fb_action_ids=916845454992771&fb_action_types=og.comments

Somebody just showed me this "article" (opinion piece, that it more so a paranoid rant). And, I thought I would post it up here with my thoughts, since it is representative of many of the irrational fears shown in this thread. Basically some female was in a bookstore, with her kids and she saw (or suspected, based the outline of the padding under his jacket). And, quickly her first reaction is to pray that it is a cop. And, then pretty much the rest of the article is her ranting about how she thinks he is watching her and others in the store...

First of all if he was an undercover cop, his badge would not be visible for obvious reasons (kind of would defeat the purpose of being undercover). Also, if he was actually watching her and others, it would make sense, since that is his job.

But more importantly the fact that her first hope was that he was a cop is laughable. Living in a free country means the ability to carry guns in public. The idea that somebody carrying a gun automatically has a bad intent, is beyond delusional.

Not to mentions seeing as she knows so little about guns, the "outline of an object under his jacket", could have likely been, a cigar case (many cigar smokers keep their case under their jacket breast), his glasses case (also very very common), or almost anything else...


We cannot sacrifice constitutional rights to irrational fear. I know she has her kids and that makes some people worry more, but its absurd to think that safety of your kids comes before constitutional rights.

Also, if you are worried about the safety of your kids, remember that place in history where only the police carried in public. It was called the Third Reich, and yes, it is proof that gun control can be very effective.
coilman
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January 27th, 2015 at 2:39:23 AM permalink
Quote: coilman

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/rcmp-say-suspect-wanted-in-shooting-of-alberta-officers-has-been-located



http://globalnews.ca/video/1794510/rcmp-const-david-wynn-laid-to-rest-in-st-albert
RS
RS
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January 27th, 2015 at 4:53:00 AM permalink
It REALLY helps if you actually research the case (Zimmerman & Martin) before you talk about it.

On the supporting Trayvon side, I mostly see opinions "he shouldn't have done that" or "he needed a gun to defend himself against a kid?" or "he just had skittles and iced tea" .... etc.

If you look at the other side, you'll see how bad Trayvon really was. He wouldn't just get into fights, but was actually training to fight. Fighting him would be like fighting a mini UFC fighter -- you're not gonna have a good time. Zimmerman was told he didn't need to approach or follow Martin, but that's because of liability. If they told him to pursue Martin, then they'd be liable if something happened to Zimmerman. He was not told to not follow/pursue martin. The list goes on.

It's actually really hard to look at all the facts and still believe Zimmerman was in the wrong (regarding Zimmerman vs Martin).

But of course the race baiters, anti-gun people, pro-black people, anti-cop/law people, and media jump all over it where a "white man killed an unarmed black teenager". [Which is weird since Zimmerman isn't white....but you saw that caption on your TV screen watching the news or reading articles online.]
Gandler
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January 27th, 2015 at 4:56:39 AM permalink
Quote: RS

It REALLY helps if you actually research the case (Zimmerman & Martin) before you talk about it.

On the supporting Trayvon side, I mostly see opinions "he shouldn't have done that" or "he needed a gun to defend himself against a kid?" or "he just had skittles and iced tea" .... etc.

If you look at the other side, you'll see how bad Trayvon really was. He wouldn't just get into fights, but was actually training to fight. Fighting him would be like fighting a mini UFC fighter -- you're not gonna have a good time. Zimmerman was told he didn't need to approach or follow Martin, but that's because of liability. If they told him to pursue Martin, then they'd be liable if something happened to Zimmerman. He was not told to not follow/pursue martin. The list goes on.

It's actually really hard to look at all the facts and still believe Zimmerman was in the wrong (regarding Zimmerman vs Martin).

But of course the race baiters, anti-gun people, pro-black people, anti-cop/law people, and media jump all over it where a "white man killed an unarmed black teenager". [Which is weird since Zimmerman isn't white....but you saw that caption on your TV screen watching the news or reading articles online.]



The fact that Zimmerman was found not guilty even with all of the media and social pressure against him, proves beyond a doubt that he was in the right. No reasonable person can say otherwise.
AxelWolf
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January 27th, 2015 at 5:57:13 AM permalink
No matter what the situation I don't think most people should be carrying guns in places like Vegas. I'm not anti gun, as a matter a fact I just bought my friend a beautiful Remington 12 gauge Shot gun silver barrel black stock for his Birthday.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
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January 27th, 2015 at 5:59:54 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

No matter what the situation I don't think most people should be carrying guns in places like Vegas. I'm not anti gun, as a matter a fact I just bought my friend a beautiful Remington 12 gauge Shot gun silver barrel black stock for his Birthday.



Lucky Friend!
AxelWolf
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January 27th, 2015 at 6:07:57 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Lucky Friend!

It was on sale. Now I want one.

He will probably forget to take his meds one day and shoot me.

Ps. I don't want one, I just realized I have GF.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
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January 27th, 2015 at 10:53:10 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It was on sale. Now I want one.

He will probably forget to take his meds one day and shoot me.

Ps. I don't want one, I just realized I have GF.




GF? What is that, new shotgun model?
AcesAndEights
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January 27th, 2015 at 11:38:40 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

GF? What is that, new shotgun model?


Not sure if joking or if....but GF in this context means girlfriend. Probably afraid his psycho girlfriend will shoot him with his own gun if he pisses her off some day :p
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Dieter
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Dieter
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January 27th, 2015 at 12:33:31 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Probably afraid his psycho girlfriend will shoot him with his own gun if he pisses her off some day :p



There's probably some exaggerated statistic about how often that happens someplace...
May the cards fall in your favor.
terapined
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July 12th, 2016 at 4:49:45 AM permalink
What happened in Dallas was horrible
What made it worse was open carry
What are the police to do when somebody starts shooting cops and they are surrounded by armed gun nuts
The mayor and police chief have come out against open carry
It makes their job harder
Open carry does not make people safer
I support the police
Lets make their job easier and get rid of open carry

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/dallas-carnage-should-help-us-focus-on-texas-gun-laws-versus-laws-of-nature-8478360
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-12/open-carry-failed-in-dallas
TwoFeathersATL
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July 12th, 2016 at 7:36:23 AM permalink
Well now,
Interesting 15 pages of thread that I hadn't read before.
Ends with Terapined advocating against open carry 'cause it can make the cops jobs harder in some instances.
Apparently a valid point in this Dallas incident.
I will have to decide whether to comment, maybe later.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
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