Justified to not pay back?
You seem to be doing that as we speak. Almost everyone here disagrees with your actions. What part of the wizards statement didn't you get? He basically said, people shouldn't ever do business with you. That sound worst then bad credit to me.Quote: Lemieux66There's a big difference. You can ruin your credit!
I would take a break from thread and reflect on your statements. Rethink all of this. You seem to have a foggy head and you are to busy defending a bad decision right now to think clearly. Every time you post something new while trying to defend your actions it looks worst.
Have a 3rd uninvolved party read this thread and get their opinion. How many people have to tell you you are wrong before you believe it?
Quote: AxelWolfYou seem to be doing that as we speak. Almost everyone here disagrees with your actions. What part of the wizards statement didn't you get? He basically said, people shouldn't ever do business with you. That sound worst then bad credit to me.
I would take a break from thread and reflect on your statements. Rethink all of this. You seem to have a foggy head and you are to busy defending a bad decision right now to think clearly. Every time you post something new while trying to defend your actions it looks worst.
Have a 3rd uninvolved party read this thread and get their opinion. How many people have to tell you you are wrong before you believe it?
On the surface, I am wrong. But he's a horrible human being and I don't want to. He deserves the pain.
You say he is not a nice guy. You say that welshing on this debt brings you pleasure. You've just lowered yourself to his or an even lower scale of human being than he is. You're OK with this? You can really live with this?
Personally, I couldn't do it. I found that I had too much character for that.
I would seek out a GA group, or call the number on the back of a player's card, get some help and start making payments to this guy. I don't care whether or not he is a nice guy.
It's not about him!
Quote: Lemieux66On the surface, I am wrong. But he's a horrible human being and I don't want to. He deserves the pain.
If I owed money to a child molestor.
Yea the child molestor is a horrible being and deseves any pain he receives.
Regardless of all that, If I owe, then I owe. Its still a debt. I would pay.
Quote: texasplumrI tried this myself. Using BS reasoning to try and convince myself that it was OK to not pay a gambling debt. Can you really live with yourself knowing you have just lowered yourself to this level?
You say he is not a nice guy. You say that welshing on this debt brings you pleasure. You've just lowered yourself to his or an even lower scale of human being than he is. You're OK with this? You can really live with this?
Personally, I couldn't do it. I found that I had too much character for that.
I would seek out a GA group, or call the number on the back of a player's card, get some help and start making payments to this guy. I don't care whether or not he is a nice guy.
It's not about him!
As I said before, I couldn't live with myself if I paid him back. I want him to feel terrible. I want him to be broke. I want him to be homeless. Paying him back is in DIRECT conflict to my wishes. I couldn't do such a thing.
Quote: terapinedIf I owed money to a child molestor.
Yea the child molestor is a horrible being and deseves any pain he receives.
Regardless of all that, If I owe, then I owe. Its still a debt. I would pay.
There's a difference. He didn't try to use your sports betting addiction against you. Of course you pay back the child molester.
So on that token, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in any WOV contest's, sports pools, bets etc etc. Since we know you have some type of gambling addiction. We have all been pre warned. You could use this addiction as an excuse not to pay up.Quote: Lemieux66There's a difference. He didn't try to use your sports betting addiction against you. Of course you pay back the child molester.
Quote: AxelWolfSo on that token, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in any WOV contest's, sports pools, bets etc etc.
Good point. I will not participate in any contests for money, and we should do something for the coming football season, unless Lem66, should he wish to join, pays in advance.
Quote: AxelWolfSo on that token, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in any WOV contest's, sports pools, bets etc etc. Since we know you have some type of gambling addiction. We have all been pre warned. You could use this addiction as an excuse not to pay up.
Totally different situation. As I said, I pay back any and all debt to those who aren't trying to cheat or take advantage of me. Others have confirmed he tried to do this as well. In fact, I don't understand why any of you would pay people back like this either! Being a "gentleman" means nothing if you're simultaneously being a sucker as well.
Quote: WizardGood point. I will not participate in any contests for money, and we should do something for the coming football season, unless Lem66, should he wish to join, pays in advance.
It sounds funny to say now, but I don't know enough about sports to wager money on it.
Quote: Lemieux66There's a difference. He didn't try to use your sports betting addiction against you. Of course you pay back the child molester.
Wow, in your world a child molestor is not as bad as a bookie that preys on people with a sports addiction problem.
What planet do you live on?
There is not much worse then a child molestor. A bookie preying on you is worse????????
so money owed to a jerk is worse then ruining an innocent childs life forever.
wow. What a twisted mind.
Are you a catholic priest?
I disagree with him being able to pay in advance. That's enabling his admitted addiction. A sports contest turns into a few sports bets, A few sports bets turn into seeking out a bookie for credit. He might burn off his life savings and lose everything. Next thing you know he will blame and bad mouth the forum and the members for allowing him to participate.Quote: WizardGood point. I will not participate in any contests for money, and we should do something for the coming football season, unless Lem66, should he wish to join, pays in advance.
Quote: Lemieux66As I said before, I couldn't live with myself if I paid him back. I want him to feel terrible. I want him to be broke. I want him to be homeless. Paying him back is in DIRECT conflict to my wishes. I couldn't do such a thing.
If it is not about the money, which you clearly admit you lost. It must be personal between you and him. In that case since you agree you lost the money, I think you should donate the $4400 to the Wizard's websites. That way you have paid your losses and and don't have to feel guilty for giving it to the person that you think cheated you. I am sure the Wizard will let us know when he receives your donation.
Quote: terapinedWow, in your world a child molestor is not as bad as a bookie that preys on people with a sports addiction problem.
What planet do you live on?
There is not much worse then a child molestor. A bookie preying on you is worse????????
so money owed to a jerk is worse then ruining an innocent childs life forever.
wow. What a twisted mind.
Are you a catholic priest?
A debt is a debt. You pay back a debt! Unless that person is personally trying to use you. Then he gets bupkis.
Quote: DRichIf it is not about the money, which you clearly admit you lost. It must be personal between you and him. In that case since you agree you lost the money, I think you should donate the $4400 to the Wizard's websites. That way you have paid your losses and and don't have to feel guilty for giving it to the person that you think cheated you. I am sure the Wizard will let us know when he receives your donation.
While that's better than paying him back, I'd be nearly broke.
1. It looks like we now know who is the cause of Mario getting all of his heat in AC.
2. Mario, you are making a huge deal about kickbacks. If you feel that you are owed 10% in kickbacks then you still owe 4k. What is your reasoning behind not paying that at least?
This thread was a horrible idea for you. Anytime something comes up with you, this thread will now be referenced.
Seriously though, I can't figure out why you would start this thread. You didn't really believe you would find people who agreed with you on a forum devoted to gambling, did you?
Another thing I thought strange. He took advantage of your self confessed gambling addiction and you think this is grounds to withhold payment? I don't think that works well with drug dealers.
It's about responsibility to me. I know that you'll never see that the way most do. As I said, it's about you. This thread speaks volumes about who you are.
Using a child molester analogy is just ridiculous in the first place. Gambling debts are a entirely different animal and EVERYONE knows this. A deal is a deal. He should pay up and find a different way yo deal with that guy.Quote: terapinedWow, in your world a child molestor is not as bad as a bookie that preys on people with a sports addiction problem.
What planet do you live on?
There is not much worse then a child molestor. A bookie preying on you is worse????????
so money owed to a jerk is worse then ruining an innocent childs life forever.
wow. What a twisted mind.
Are you a catholic priest?
He knew this guy was like this, Why the hell did he get into bed with him? It's almost like he coned that guy, he was free rolling, If he wins he gets paid, if he loses he stiffs the guy for half. Sounds like a 50% rebate to me. I have a feeling the only reason he was paying him anything along the way was so he could keep betting.
Quote: texasplumrYou started a thread on dumbest reasons why people don't pay their debts once, I believe. Maybe this should be combined with that thread.
Seriously though, I can't figure out why you would start this thread. You didn't really believe you would find people who agreed with you on a forum devoted to gambling, did you?
Another thing I thought strange. He took advantage of your self confessed gambling addiction and you think this is grounds to withhold payment? I don't think that works well with drug dealers.
It's about responsibility to me. I know that you'll never see that the way most do. As I said, it's about you. This thread speaks volumes about who you are.
I take advantage of those who try to take advantage of me. NEVER the regular person who I might owe money to. I'm just being smart about it.
You never ever pay people back who are trying to use you. Identify those people and use them. In a spectacular way if you can.
Quote: AxelWolfUsing a child molester analogy is just ridiculous in the first place. Gambling debts are a entirely different animal and EVERYONE knows this. A deal is a deal. He should pay up and find a different way yo deal with that guy.
He knew this guy was like this, Why the hell did he get into bed with him? It's almost like he coned that guy, he was free rolling, If he wins he gets paid, if he loses he stiffs the guy for half. Sounds like a 50% rebate to me. I have a feeling the only reason he was paying him anything along the way was so he could keep betting.
Originally, I didn't know he would try to use me. Remember, he tells his cousin things and the cousin tells me what he said. The guy doesn't know about this so I get the entire scoop.
I did know that he lied and cheated, but when I found he tried to lie and cheat ME that changed things. Now you might say I should have expected that, but I was hoping since we have known each other for years that he wouldn't do that. That was my fault, but luckily his loss.
Here is a thought, when someone tries to take advantage of you, you avoid them, walk away. A simple No thank you, Your trying to con me.Quote: Lemieux66I take advantage of those who try to take advantage of me. NEVER the regular person who I might owe money to. I'm just being smart about it.
You never ever pay people back who are trying to use you. Identify those people and use them. In a spectacular way if you can.
OP simply followed the ancient, tried and true legal Code of Hammurabi, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". Sports Betting, Friendship, Money...all social constructs -- ideas, notions with rules that help us overcome the challenges of relating to one another. Do the rules of Sports Betting, Friendship, Money not have the same moral worth?
Why is everyone on this thread letting Bookie Apprentice off the hook of morality? He broke the rules of friendship and professionalism. Bookie apprentice represented himself as a Friend of OP yet plotted against OP, lied and refused to close the accounts. OP tried to cut losses -- not an easy task as many of us all know, but Bookie Apprentice was relentless to deceive and destroy a "friend" and client.
OP clearly stated he would have paid the bookie directly so this is not a matter of OP reneging on a bet. OP was betrayed by this perpetrating "friend" who desecrated the sanctity of trust, friendship and decency. OP merely equalized the situation, restoring balance and justice by not adhering to the same socially constructed rules that Bookie Apprentice had no problem breaking himself.
If every outcome played out to the thieving conniving individual without punishment, we would live in an unjust, brutish society. Like a Boss, OP stood his ground.
"I couldn't live with myself if I paid him back. I want him to feel terrible. I want him to be broke. I want him to be homeless. Paying him back is in DIRECT conflict to my wishes. I couldn't do such a thing"
As I read this it sounds like this person is projecting his/her own issues. We all keep going back and forth with the op. The op asked us all this..... "So, with all that said, does it make sense to pay him back?" We have all answered you. Basically as I say if you want to play you MUST pay! There is no back and forth about this it is cut and dry. For whatever it is worth, I would NEVER do business with someone like this.
Bottom line... PAY YOUR DEBT!
Lemieux66 is just posting a BS story so the whole forum will be up in arms.
Sorry I posted in this troll thread.
Thread now blocked.
Quote: DRichIf it is not about the money, which you clearly admit you lost. It must be personal between you and him. In that case since you agree you lost the money, I think you should donate the $4400 to the Wizard's websites. That way you have paid your losses and and don't have to feel guilty for giving it to the person that you think cheated you. I am sure the Wizard will let us know when he receives your donation.
I wouldn't accept it as I feel I would be taking somebody else's money.
Quote: Lemieux66While that's better than paying him back, I'd be nearly broke.
So what. If it was an honest transaction you would also be nearly broke because you lost the bets. It is very obvious that you are not an honorable person.
Quote: terapinedThis is obviously a troll thread.
Lemieux66 is just posting a BS story so the whole forum will be up in arms.
Sorry I posted in this troll thread.
Thread now blocked.
Right...yeah that's the ticket.
GIVE ME A BREAK. Out of all the contavertial threads this is was brought you out? I absolutely believe this is Lemieux66 posing as a self Defendor.Quote: 2tearsDear friends, I have read WOV threads for a while now incognito. Lest not forget, knowledge always pays the best dividends. I dabble in a few table games but that's neither here nor there. I am compelled to respond to this particular thread to address one-sided foolish arguments that only condemn and criticize OP.
OP simply followed the ancient, tried and true legal Code of Hammurabi, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". Sports Betting, Friendship, Money...all social constructs -- ideas, notions with rules that help us overcome the challenges of relating to one another. Do the rules of Sports Betting, Friendship, Money not have the same moral worth?
Why is everyone on this thread letting Bookie Apprentice off the hook of morality? He broke the rules of friendship and professionalism. Bookie apprentice represented himself as a Friend of OP yet plotted against OP, lied and refused to close the accounts. OP tried to cut losses -- not an easy task as many of us all know, but Bookie Apprentice was relentless to deceive and destroy a "friend" and client.
OP clearly stated he would have paid the bookie directly so this is not a matter of OP reneging on a bet. OP was betrayed by this perpetrating "friend" who desecrated the sanctity of trust, friendship and decency. OP merely equalized the situation, restoring balance and justice by not adhering to the same socially constructed rules that Bookie Apprentice had no problem breaking himself.
If every outcome played out to the thieving conniving individual without punishment, we would live in an unjust, brutish society. Like a Boss, OP stood his ground.
"Dear friends, I have read WOV threads for a while now incognito." Such a common tell. Not to mention, Make sure you let people know you have been a lurker. Disguise your writing as much as possible, almost to the point of overdoing it. Connect yourself personally with your new alias "I dabble in a few table games" Over defend yourself with details.
Quote: Lemieux66There's a big difference. You can ruin your credit!
I would think that telling a gambling community that you don't pay your gambling debts is doing just that.
I have a feeling that a few people around here would decline to book any action with you until this debt is settled, and possibly even after.
Quote: WizardI wouldn't accept it as I feel I would be taking somebody else's money.
Exactly! It's mine.
I live my a simple credo. Those who are good to you, be good to them. Help them out. Advise them. Be a good friend. Those who are try to a screw you, you screw them back 10x worse. Otherwise you're a sucker and a chump.
Quote: DieterI would think that telling a gambling community that you don't pay your gambling debts is doing just that.
I have a feeling that a few people around here would decline to book any action with you until this debt is settled, and possibly even after.
I don't make sports bets anymore and I don't ask for loans . If you don't have a bankroll, get a job and save.
Quote: AxelWolfGIVE ME A BREAK. Out of all the contavertial threads this is was brought you out? I absolutely believe this is Lemieux66 posing as a self Defendor.
The IPs are almost, but not exactly, the same.
Quote: AxelWolfI would be willing to bet the New account is using a IP blocker or Free VPN.
I don't speak that way.
What are the odds of that?Quote: WizardThe IPs are almost, but not exactly, the same.
Quote: MoscaWhy don't you pay him, then sneak into his house and steal the $4400 back? It's the same thing, but you'd have the honor of having paid the debt.
To be honest, I think that would be the lesser sin. I have a lower opinion of bet welchers than I do of outright thieves.
Quote: Lemieux66Exactly! It's mine.
I live my a simple credo. Those who are good to you, be good to them. Help them out. Advise them. Be a good friend. Those who are try to a screw you, you screw them back 10x worse. Otherwise you're a sucker and a chump.
Mario you have lost ALL credibility with nearly everyone on this forum. When you were posting the mostly BS stories about getting backed off most of us wanted to help but you never were willing. Now you are posting this hopefully BS story.
The quote above tells us a lot about what type of person you are. sighh!!!!
Quote: GWAEMario you have lost ALL credibility with nearly everyone on this forum. When you were posting the mostly BS stories about getting backed off most of us wanted to help but you never were willing. Now you are posting this hopefully BS story.
The quote above tells us a lot about what type of person you are. sighh!!!!
I haven't lied about anything. This thread nor any others.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat are the odds of that?
Remember I mentioned the guy who won that Giants SB bet? There we go.
I have no clue what that means.Quote: Lemieux66Remember I mentioned the guy who won that Giants SB bet? There we go.
I do know that if your IP and the "new guys" IP were a close match then its obvious your playing games. I don't know how close they are. I'm sure the wizard could check them online and pin down the locations. Perhaps a neighbors WiFi or the same VPN service that gave you 2 similar IP's. I bet they are coming from the same device.
Quote: AxelWolfI have no clue what that means.
I do know that if your IP and the "new guys" IP were a close match then its obvious your playing games. I don't know how close they are. I'm sure the wizard could check them online and pin down the locations. Perhaps a neighbors WiFi or the same VPN service that gave you 2 similar IP's. I bet they are coming from the same device.
No no no. That guy is my friend. I've shown him this site before, but he posted because of this. He's the guy who won the Giants SB bet that I mentioned before.
You'll bet someone who won't pay you after a resolved bet learning of this, because someone thinks you wouldn't pay if you lost. This would be a valid reason for many people. You don't make a bet with someone who won't pay, but if you find later out someone collects on bets but never pays, they are morally justified to either not pay or pay to someone they owe.Quote: Lemieux66Ok, I want a strong reason to pay him back. I don't want stuff about going down to his level, or being a gentleman etc. He doesn't have the ability or backing to physically hurt me. Why pay back a person who is by all accounts a scumbag(even by his family)?
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou'll bet someone who won't pay you after a resolved bet learning of this, because someone thinks you wouldn't pay if you lost. This would be a valid reason for many people. You don't make a bet with someone who won't pay, but if you find later out someone collects on bets but never pays, they are morally justified to either not pay or pay to someone they owe.
The only gambling I do now is poker or blackjack. No credit based stuff so nobody has to worry.
Quote: Lemieux66I'm happy to screw over a bad person. Not even involving this situation, he's lied and tried to cheat people at various times.
So, by the same logic, if I made a bet with you, and lost, would it be ok for me to refuse to pay you? After all, you are cheating this guy out of his money. I don't see how you are any different from him.
You got it. Lemieux has determined this guy is a scumbag for how he conducts himself and believes this gives him a reason not to pay him. So if you don't like how Lemieux conducts himself(IE. hes a welsher), you don't have to pay him.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, by the same logic, if I made a bet with you, and lost, would it be ok for me to refuse to pay you? After all, you are cheating this guy out of his money. I don't see how you are any different from him.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, by the same logic, if I made a bet with you, and lost, would it be ok for me to refuse to pay you? After all, you are cheating this guy out of his money. I don't see how you are any different from him.
No no, that's bad logic. Everyone has an ememy or at least someone who doesn't like them. If you use that justification nobody would ever get paid back. Only those who try to screw you it's fine.
