Quote: rainmanAre you sure cops don't shoot unarmed guys bob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg
I would have no problem shooting an unarmed person if I felt threatened with bodily harm.
Quote: DRichI would have no problem shooting an unarmed person if I felt threatened with bodily harm.
Your not a cop.
I put another link in my post above this one the cop shoots the unarmed guy in
the back because he is running away from him.
Quote: rainmanYour not a cop.
Are you sure?
Quote: DRichAre you sure?
Nope I'm not sure about anything in this world, but if I had to bet...
And whatever money they confiscate.Quote: DRichI don't know about small cities, but in Nevada I don't think cops are necessarily underpaid. I believe rookies right out of the academy start at about $70k in Las Vegas and that doesn't include overtime.
Quote: Rigondeaux...Only the police can legally kill someone who has done nothing wrong because they think that maybe they might have a gun and maybe...
Nah. Anyone may use force to defend themselves or a third party, including force that might result in death, if they reasonably believe it's necessary to prevent serious harm or imminent death.
I'd bet you can find similar provisions in all 50 states.
Would you have shot Daniel S. like they did?Quote: DRichI would have no problem shooting an unarmed person if I felt threatened with bodily harm.
That was some horrific BS. Those F***ers should have went to jail, both the shooter and the the guy barking commands.
I don't know if that's really a factor, but if so, it's quite the irony that cops wearing a reachable weapon might make them more likely to beat the crap out of you just because they can't afford the brief moment of loss control where someone might grab their gun.
Quote: billryanWhy do you think its okay for a cop to impose street justice? They take an oath to obey the law and protect the public. All the public, not just the rich. Maybe low level criminals keep getting released because people don't belong in jail for being accused of petty crimes. People sit in jail for months awaiting trial because their families cant afford the bail.
Maybe the world would be a better place if any cop administering street justice was fired and jailed. A punk with a badge should be treated just like any other punk. If they break the law, they should be punished and street justice is nothing but breaking the law.
It's not ok to impose street justice on any individual. But the cell phone/body cam era which has exposed the practice, thus virtually eliminating it, has made the unsafe areas even unsafer. Cops don't want to go there.
You and I probably disagree on what is a petty crime. The guy accosting my wife for 'a few bucks' in a threatening manner to you may be petty. The guy shoplifting a couple hundred dollars in batteries from the dollar store to you may be a petty crime. The criminal justice system will have both these guys back on the street in hours. They will repeat the same offences, you know that! Let them sit in jail because they can't afford bail. GOOD!
The reverse has taken place to such as the guy who shot a television set in his own home being charged as a terrorist.
Quote: SOOPOOIt's not ok to impose street justice on any individual. But the cell phone/body cam era which has exposed the practice, thus virtually eliminating it, has made the unsafe areas even unsafer. Cops don't want to go there.
You and I probably disagree on what is a petty crime. The guy accosting my wife for 'a few bucks' in a threatening manner to you may be petty. The guy shoplifting a couple hundred dollars in batteries from the dollar store to you may be a petty crime. The criminal justice system will have both these guys back on the street in hours. They will repeat the same offences, you know that! Let them sit in jail because they can't afford bail. GOOD!
I understand where you are coming from however putting the punishment
before the trial and conviction undermines the whole notion of justice
you must have due process.
Quote: rainmanI understand where you are coming from however putting the punishment
before the trial and conviction undermines the whole notion of justice
you must have due process.
Of course you are correct. But then the punishment for resisting arrest must be severe. If there is no real repercussion for fighting with a police officer who is attempting to arrest you, then where is the safety margin for that officer?
Quote: RigondeauxYeah, I think Gamerfreak mentioned a friend who makes more as a security guard than as a cop.
That's certainly a large part of the problem in such areas. You can't pay and train someone like a Best Buy employee and expect a highly effective professional.
A friend became a cop in a small town mostly writing tickets. Then he became an airport cop. Then he went to the police academy to become a city cop. Im guessing deputies arent required to train.
An associate has been a martial artist for over 20 yrs. he failed the police academy written test. He went back to teaching.
Quote: rxwineHere's a thought --- I've never wrestled with a guy while wearing a loaded sidearm. But if I did I imagine I might be more tempted to pound his brains in because of fear a loose arm might grab my own weapon..
I don't know if that's really a factor, but if so, it's quite the irony that cops wearing a reachable weapon might make them more likely to beat the crap out of you just because they can't afford the brief moment of loss control where someone might grab their gun.
I saw a burglar wrestling with 2 cops on the ground. The cop left his gun on the ground A chance that the burglar could have grabbed it. If he managed to roll over the cop.
Quote: SOOPOOOf course you are correct. But then the punishment for resisting arrest must be severe. If there is no real repercussion for fighting with a police officer who is attempting to arrest you, then where is the safety margin for that officer?
In his gun, taser, flashlight/club, bullet proof vest, pepper spray, backup, qualified immunity.
Police are rarely convicted of murder do to the fact all they need to say is I feared for my
safety I thought he had a gun.
There is an endless supply of video's of police committing violence against the public for
the smallest of non violent victimless crimes. The public need protection from the Police
and justice system, there are also videos shot inside of courtrooms exposing tyrannical
Ego driven Judges in traffic courts breaking their own rules and screwing people over and this is more common than not.
I can go on & on about how out of balance and in favor of Law enforcement the justice
system is there is an endless supply of evidence to back my claim.
Quote: rainmanIn his gun, taser, flashlight/club, bullet proof vest, pepper spray, backup, qualified immunity.
Police are rarely convicted of murder do to the fact all they need to say is I feared for my
safety I thought he had a gun.
Assuming a risk of death or injury is part of the job. If that scares some people, they shouldn't become cops.
Quote: rxwineI see OnceDear closed an old topic, but I submit praying is a gambling topic.
I closed it yesterday. He was able to post in it, and it didn't look any different to him, because mods have different permissions than members.
You post at DT. By Mike, Joshua and Zuga's decision, it's not a welcome topic here. (I suspect you're joking, so I'm saying this for wider consumption). So I suggest you take it up there. Or petition them to change their ruling. Thanks.
Quote: rainmanI understand where you are coming from however putting the punishment
before the trial and conviction undermines the whole notion of justice
you must have due process.
I've mentioned it before, but a friend of mine had his California DL stolen from the mail, which he reported. Someone apparently used it to rent a car in Vegas and then never returned it. Years went by. After he moved here, he was pulled over. He was arrested, his car was impounded and he was thrown in jail with a $30k bail. I can't remember how long he'd be there if he didn't post, but it was over a month. Enough to lose his job, for sure. Luckily for him, he could come up with the 3 grand for a bail bondsman (non refundable). And the money to pay for the shakedown to get back the car which the police had stolen.
It shows you how screwed up everything is on many fronts. First off, their premise was that a 40 year old man with no record decided to take up auto theft and that his method would be to rent a car in his own name and then just keep it.
Now I suppose that could happen, though it's very odd. But the other funny part is, as long as he never came back to Nevada, it seems he'd have gotten away with it! Again, he'd gone years with no problems.
He wasn't a hard man to find. He has a fairly uncommon name. A facebook page. He had an established residency in LA. They had a copy of his driver's license. It's kind of surprising that nobody ever just called him or sent him a letter so he'd have the opportunity to turn himself in for questioning.
Of course, not everybody can come up with $3k+ at the drop of a hat. And for many who can, it is a very large amount of money. In NY people are jailed for over a year without being convicted, for petty crimes. And yes, within the scope of crime, they are petty.
Running from the police might be the most logical thing to do for many people, when you factor in police brutality, the propensity of police to lie/frame people, and the fact that even if you are innocent and prove it in court, you will probably spend months in jail and lose your job, car, home and perhaps some relationships. You'd also be unable to make payments on debts, child support, etc. Then you come out with absolutely nothing.
We live in a sick society where so many people seem to get a boner from seeing people treated like that, or at least their first thought is that it's all worth it cuz someone stole batteries.
Quote: rainmanAre you sure cops don't shoot unarmed guys Bob.
Oh my GOD, you found instances
where a cop SHOT an unarmed
guy?? Holy Crap!!!
What does that have to do with
a normal cop restraining an
unarmed perp. I'll give you plenty
of time to think about it.
Quote: EvenBobOh my GOD, you found instances
where a cop SHOT an unarmed
guy?? Holy Crap!!!
What does that have to do with
a normal cop restraining an
unarmed perp. I'll give you plenty
of time to think about it.
What are you smoking?
Are these your words?
Begin Bobs words below.
"Respectfully, you don't know what you're
talking about. 'Armed' has nothing to with
it if the perp isn't armed. They aren't going
to shoot an unarmed guy. If some good
sized guy is on meth and doesn't want
to be restrained, it will take 3/4 officers
to get it done. I see it all the time. The
guy has been tazed, has a cop sitting
on his back, his legs and his head, and
is still writhing around grabbing and
biting and screaming. The 4th cop
is trying to cuff him. Drugged up
people can summon incredible
strength at times.
It's pretty entertaining. Especially
when they get repeatedly tazed
and scream like 9 year old girls."
End Bobs words.
You clearly stated police don't shoot unarmed perps
I believe that statement is patently false and provided
evidence to prove it. your claim was total B.S
I only needed ten seconds to think about it about three
seconds longer than it took to figure out your unarmed
perp statement was crap.
Quote: rainmanYou clearly stated police don't shoot unarmed perps
And 99.999999999999
9999999999999999999%
of the time they don't.
You seem to think because
you found some who did,
that is somehow significant
to the argument. It's not.
Quote: EvenBobAnd 99.999999999999
9999999999999999999%
of the time they don't.
You seem to think because
you found some who did,
that is somehow significant
to the argument. It's not.
There are dozens of incidents each year that get lots of publicity about an unarmed person being shot by police. I don't know what percentage of the thousand or so people police kill each year are unarmed, but I do know it isn't zero.
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This morning there was a BJ promo where on your next 5 hands you got a loss rebate of 10-50%. Each hand was independent. Max rebate $100.
First hand 10% back and 5th hand 50% back.
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About 20 min ago I got an email from rivers that is deposit 200 and play through 1x and you get 2 tickets to penguins home opener.
Quote: EvenBobAnd 99.999999999999
9999999999999999999%
of the time they don't.
You seem to think because
you found some who did,
that is somehow significant
to the argument. It's not.
Wrong! the only thing I was arguing was the validity of your
statement. Now I will argue the validity of your
99.999999999999
9999999999999999999% claim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKqrkHVV0rg
How many getting shot until its significant? will it matter to you when its yourself or family member?
I can keep em coming for ya.
Quote: billryanThere are dozens of incidents each year that get lots of publicity about an unarmed person being shot by police. I don't know what percentage of the thousand or so people police kill each year are unarmed, but I do know it isn't zero.
You can also throw in people who are legally armed and have not committed a crime or attempted to use their gun. If it's going to be legal to carry a gun, you can't have the police randomly shooting people for doing so. Though, at least you can say they had more basis for being "afraid."
And dogs... Police kill about 25-30 dogs a day. It's even easier for them to get away with that.
A number of fun stories here:
https://reason.com/tag/puppycide/
re the murder of Jimmy Hoffa
getting rave reviews
but it's 3.5 hours long - don't think I can handle that
Pesci finally. Itll be on Netflix 4 weeks after theaters so cool I'll sub.Quote: lilredroosterblockbuster epic drama - The Irishman - from Scorcese debuting in November with De Niro, Pacino and Joe Pesci
re the murder of Jimmy Hoffa
getting rave reviews
but it's 3.5 hours long - don't think I can handle that
Of course it is rude.Quote: gamerfreakYou loan a couple, who were good friends, your vacation home for a weekend 100% free. Is it rude for them to invite additional guests whom you don’t know without consulting you first?
But next time when doing something like that, you should always ask, "will it just be you two?"
In my opinion that just seems like a nice way for you to imply the offer is only good for them and it gives them a chance to state otherwise.
Quote: AxelWolfOf course it is rude.
But next time when doing something like that, you should always ask, "will it just be you two?"
In my opinion that just seems like a nice way for you to imply the offer is only good for them and it gives them a chance to state otherwise.
Imo it depends on the house. If you are offering a 4 bedroom and it is just 2 people then in would expect to be allowed to bring 4 more people.
I was recently offered a 7 bedroom in Corolla for free. It is just 4 of us. We couldn't use it but if we could have I would have invited my parents and wife's parents.
If it is a small place and really only good for 1 family and they invited a bunch of people that just slept everywhere then that is unreasonable.
Even if it is a big place and they threw a party that would be rude.
Quote: billryanThere are dozens of incidents each year
Dozens, out of the 9-10 million
arrested every year? So 99.99
999999999999999999% of those
being arrested aren't being shot?
Thanks for making my point.
Quote: gamerfreakYou loan a couple, who were good friends, your vacation home for a weekend 100% free. Is it rude for them to invite additional guests whom you don’t know without consulting you first?
Absolutely.
Quote: EvenBobOh my GOD, you found instances
where a cop SHOT an unarmed
guy?? Holy Crap!!!
What does that have to do with
a normal cop restraining an
unarmed perp. I'll give you plenty
of time to think about it.
I am 50 yo. Ive seen so much personal acct of police corruption. I have to get back to my computer to type everything from 4 covered up murders that could easily be solved, ruled suicide on day one. Almost all traffic cases handled based on race. My mom was rear ended. The driver said that my mom pulled out of the parking lot into the middle lane. Cop told the driver that there is no parking exit. Cop gives mom a ticket for driving to slow, false. I can post 4 + cases like this. Det twice threatened to prosecute us for burglary of our own restaurant. Our family is not black. We have lived in our hometown for 65 years. Speak fluent english, all college graduates. There was a rolling stones article quote”the level of corruption is hard to imagine”. A county judge is in prison for using his office to commit ongoing fraud in collusion with false witnesses.
We had 6 drive bys. The cops are uninterested. They never gave a case #. He is an ex worker and gang member who was stealing enomous amts ex 4000 lb of oil in 1 day and Bullying every manager including the owners, us
Weve never had a conflict of interest with the cops. None of us have a misdemeanor or criminal record.
A man backed out of his drive way struck my moms car. Collision avoidance and autonomous braking had no time to even beep The cop gave my mom a ticket. Cop gave mom a ticket. I found that the cop lied in the traffic report. Cop reported that the truck was backing into his driveway , false. He was backing out. Turns out that the man had no drivers license and an extensive criminal record. But the cop didnt give the man a ticket. Also the ex worker who is gang member/ drug dealer was pulled over. Cop let him go with no drivers license or insurance.
My point is that the cops are using selective enforcement to the most extreme cases. Some cops do believe that they are above the law and forfeit their honor for nothing
The cops had a case against my mom for an unvaccinated dog. The vet said that our dog has never missed one. The dog was under my name. The cops refused to listen to the vet or let me show up to court as my registered dog. They asked for a donation to the police dog program the next day.
Quote: EvenBobDozens, out of the 9-10 million
arrested every year? So 99.99
999999999999999999% of those
being arrested aren't being shot?
Thanks for making my point.
Murders are being ruled a suicide. The news are not always eager to cover these stories. We have no idea how many cover ups there are.
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou need respect, which means they should ask you these things before doing so. Obviously there are exceptions, like you've done the same thing or allowed it in the past, or they think automatically it would be fine. Apparently not, because you're mad so yes it's rude.
Pretty rude not to at least mention you want to bring other people. Could be occupancy rules with local management, commitments to neighbors, stress on rudimentary plumbing, wear and tear, valuables in your house that you don't want exposed to people you don't know, who knows what.
If I tell you, YOU can use my place while I'm gone and you brought other people I don't know to my place I would be pissed. I trust YOU and not your guests.Quote: billryanIf you invite two people to your house and they bring four, it's rude. If you lend someone your house, as long as they don't throw a party, it's okay to have people over.
Quote: AxelWolfIf I tell you, YOU can use my place while I'm gone and you brought other people I don't know to my place I would be pissed. I trust YOU and not your guests.
If you trust me enough to lend me your house, and I'm assuming this is a vacation/weekend house, not your home, then you should trust my judgement. Things like this can be avoided by simple communications. It was rude not to ask if they could bring others over.
or
"That's the bed, the wormy dog drags his butt across."
or
"That's the bed where I shoot porn"
Quote: billryanIf you trust me enough to lend me your house, and I'm assuming this is a vacation/weekend house, not your home, then you should trust my judgement. Things like this can be avoided by simple communications. It was rude not to ask if they could bring others over.
If your judgement is that it’s ok to bring anyone into my home that I don’t know , than I know not to trust your judgement ever again.
Quote: michael99000If your judgement is that it’s ok to bring anyone into my home that I don’t know , than I know not to trust your judgement ever again.
We must travel in different circles. On Long Island, if you lend someone your house in or near the Hamptons , its assumed they will bring guests. If I invite you to come for the weekend, that implies I am there and its rude to bring uninvited guests but if I lend Axe my family compound on the Great South Bay, I don't expect him to go solo.
Same thing with a ski chalet, if I owned one.
I just let my nephew use one of my timeshares in Miami. It's a two bedroom, I don't expect he went alone. I do expect him to respect the place and be responsible for it.
Evidently, not everyone shares my opinion. As I stated- communication is key.
Quote: billryanWe must travel in different circles. On Long Island, if you lend someone your house in or near the Hamptons , its assumed they will bring guests. If I invite you to come for the weekend, that implies I am there and its rude to bring uninvited guests but if I lend Axe my family compound on the Great South Bay, I don't expect him to go solo.
Same thing with a ski chalet, if I owned one.
I just let my nephew use one of my timeshares in Miami. It's a two bedroom, I don't expect he went alone. I do expect him to respect the place and be responsible for it.
Evidently, not everyone shares my opinion. As I stated- communication is key.
I actually came on here to post about this topic. I am currently at a party with the person that I mentioned earlier that has a 7 bedroom in Corolla. I asked him about this. He said, if I offer you my 7 bedroom beach house for free just for your family then I assume you are bringing some other people. He also said that he would expect me to be responsible for any damage from invited guests. I think in type that rather well after a half bottle of fireball.
Quote: GWAEI think in type that rather well after a half bottle of fireball.
So close!
Bill it's rude period. Your wrong, just admit it and move on. There's very few people who wouldn't think it's rude.Quote: billryan
And if there's more damage oe theft done by your guests than you can afford?Quote: GWAEI actually came on here to post about this topic. I am currently at a party with the person that I mentioned earlier that has a 7 bedroom in Corolla. I asked him about this. He said, if I offer you my 7 bedroom beach house for free just for your family then I assume you are bringing some other people. He also said that he would expect me to be responsible for any damage from invited guests. I think in type that rather well after a half bottle of fireball.