favorite domestic airline
Poll
 | 7 votes (10%) | ||
| | 8 votes (11.42%) | ||
| | 31 votes (44.28%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 1 vote (1.42%) | ||
| | 13 votes (18.57%) | ||
| | 6 votes (8.57%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 1 vote (1.42%) | ||
| | 3 votes (4.28%) |
70 members have voted
September 6th, 2013 at 7:52:43 PM
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Which domestic U.S. carrier is your favorite? The criteria is up to you: service, price, routes, amenities, loyalty club, food, in-flight entertainment tech, etc.
My apologies to fans of Frontier Airlines & Allegiant Air; sorry there's not enough room on the list.
My apologies to fans of Frontier Airlines & Allegiant Air; sorry there's not enough room on the list.
September 6th, 2013 at 8:25:32 PM
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I voted Southwest because all other US airlines suck. JetBlue would be my second vote. I abhor all of the different classes, boarding numbers, crappy planes, crappy seats, crappy buy on board, crappy employee attitudes, and everything else that domestic offers. Give me some frickin' consistent AVOD (seat-back video) instead of the overhead movie.
At least with LUV you know what you are getting: the same planes, sit where you want, decent snacks, and most importantly, you can fly from anywhere in the States direct to Vegas.
At least with LUV you know what you are getting: the same planes, sit where you want, decent snacks, and most importantly, you can fly from anywhere in the States direct to Vegas.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 6th, 2013 at 8:31:28 PM
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Continental was by far my favorite when they were still around so I'll guess I'll take their successor, United.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
September 6th, 2013 at 8:33:41 PM
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I used to be a loyal Southwest customer. Cheap and dependable -- what more could you ask for. However, their prices have crept up to industry averages and in my experience lately they often run a little late. Don't get me wrong, I still like them, I just don't "luv" them anymore.
So, I voted for Jet Blue. While sometimes pricey, they surprise you sometimes with a very affordable fare. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems they have more than average legroom, an entertainment screen at every seat, and the planes seem newer than most. I also like that they fly to Long Beach, which is close to where my parents live. I think the only other airline to service LB is Alaska, and they don't go there directly from Vegas.
So, I voted for Jet Blue. While sometimes pricey, they surprise you sometimes with a very affordable fare. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems they have more than average legroom, an entertainment screen at every seat, and the planes seem newer than most. I also like that they fly to Long Beach, which is close to where my parents live. I think the only other airline to service LB is Alaska, and they don't go there directly from Vegas.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
September 6th, 2013 at 8:35:36 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 6th, 2013 at 8:39:34 PM
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I voted Alaska. Even with the little prayer cards on the first class meal trays. They do an outstanding job on everything from baggage to maintenance to customer service. They fly into places God forgot with expert precautions and great skill. (You haven't flown until you go into Juneau while the Taku winds are blowing.) And they have a wonderful schedule of cross-country non-stops. Their pilots are uniformly happy, easy to work with, and very quick to react when the chips are down. They provide great resources and volunteer to try new procedures and equipment before anybody else.
I have nothing bad to say about any of the others by comparison; Jet Blue is, in some ways, a close second. My limited experience on Virgin Atlantic puts them top tier as well. The rest are so constrained by changes in the last 30 years that their heads are still spinning; they regret (except the occasional completely disillusioned employee) the incredibly rapid decline in what they provide and long for the days gone by.
I can tell you the exact moment things went downhill. Delta used to have what they called Royal Crown service on their wide-bodies. It wasn't just cloth napkins and silver plate; you got little silver salt-and-peppers on your tray. They served steak, lobster, cordon bleu, other top dishes. And they came by with hot towels and lemon finger-bowls afterwards.
One day, someone in Accounting noticed that, if Delta stopped putting THE PIECE OF LETTUCE under the cup of salad they were serving on the side, they would save 1.6 million dollars a year. (This was about 1986 or so; I'm not being exact by date, but by event.) Not the salad; just that one small leaf of lettuce per customer. That was the butterfly wings of change that ended up being the hurricane that is now Delta Customer Care.
I was lucky enough to fly on all the legacy airlines before they started to die. Deregulation in the 1980's. Eastern (bell tolls). Pan Am (bell tolls). Republic (bell tolls) A dozen more (clang). Ok, I'm being overdramatic for effect. But in my heart, not really.
I have nothing bad to say about any of the others by comparison; Jet Blue is, in some ways, a close second. My limited experience on Virgin Atlantic puts them top tier as well. The rest are so constrained by changes in the last 30 years that their heads are still spinning; they regret (except the occasional completely disillusioned employee) the incredibly rapid decline in what they provide and long for the days gone by.
I can tell you the exact moment things went downhill. Delta used to have what they called Royal Crown service on their wide-bodies. It wasn't just cloth napkins and silver plate; you got little silver salt-and-peppers on your tray. They served steak, lobster, cordon bleu, other top dishes. And they came by with hot towels and lemon finger-bowls afterwards.
One day, someone in Accounting noticed that, if Delta stopped putting THE PIECE OF LETTUCE under the cup of salad they were serving on the side, they would save 1.6 million dollars a year. (This was about 1986 or so; I'm not being exact by date, but by event.) Not the salad; just that one small leaf of lettuce per customer. That was the butterfly wings of change that ended up being the hurricane that is now Delta Customer Care.
I was lucky enough to fly on all the legacy airlines before they started to die. Deregulation in the 1980's. Eastern (bell tolls). Pan Am (bell tolls). Republic (bell tolls) A dozen more (clang). Ok, I'm being overdramatic for effect. But in my heart, not really.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 6th, 2013 at 9:06:34 PM
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Quote: WizardI used to be a loyal Southwest customer. Cheap and dependable -- what more could you ask for. However, their prices have crept up to industry averages and in my experience lately they often run a little late. Don't get me wrong, I still like them, I just don't "luv" them anymore.
I am with Wiz on this one. Southwest used to be something special....low price, efficient, dependable. Not so much any more. Prior to moving to Vegas 4 years ago, I used to make 2-3 trips per year from Philadelphia to vegas. I flew only southwest, mostly because they were ALWAYS the cheapest. Now I make 2 trips annually back to philly and southwest in never the cheapest....never even close. They also no longer offer nonstop from Vegas to Philly. In addition they don't have overnight flights. When going east and losing 3 hours due to time difference, I like to flight overnight, leaving at 11pm or midnight and arriving at 7 or 8 am phila time (4 1/2 hour flight plus 3 hours time difference). Otherwise you lose a whole day traveling when going east. Southwest does not offer overnight flights.
September 6th, 2013 at 10:27:44 PM
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Allegiant my choice is based on price and price only. $50.00 from Bli to Vegas $50.00 from Vegas back to Bli.
September 6th, 2013 at 10:54:29 PM
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Southwest. Herb Kelleher is the man.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 7th, 2013 at 12:22:29 AM
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Southwest has been the only airline that I have flown on in the last 10 years. $157.80 round trip for my upcoming flight to Vegas.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
September 7th, 2013 at 3:00:04 AM
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Delta, I just scored 4 free domestic tickets on Delta in the last few weeks. Hello Vegas x4 next year.
I don't work for Delta but I do work in the travel industry so that's how I got my freebies.
Honorable mention - Southwest. They have nonstop Tampa to Vegas. I'm on the nonstop Nov 2, cant wait.
I don't work for Delta but I do work in the travel industry so that's how I got my freebies.
Honorable mention - Southwest. They have nonstop Tampa to Vegas. I'm on the nonstop Nov 2, cant wait.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
September 7th, 2013 at 3:50:43 AM
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jetBlue hands down. They are what things should be. You pay a little more but you get a lot more. My brother swears by Southworst, but I have never flown them though he tries to get me to try them. Last time I looked at them they did not at all have the best price.
LUV pricing seems to be like Toyota quality. Fallen to average but most folks have not noticed yet because their reputation was so good for so long.
LUV pricing seems to be like Toyota quality. Fallen to average but most folks have not noticed yet because their reputation was so good for so long.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 7th, 2013 at 4:09:56 AM
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US Air runs 5 Non Stops daily from Philly to Las Vegas and if you look, they currently have many less than $200 RT flights through December. Only negative is the $25 bag fee, but we fly enough that we are Silver and bag fees are waived.
September 7th, 2013 at 4:30:39 AM
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Definitely NOT Southwest for me any more.
I converted some Airtran Freq Flier credits to get FF flights on SWA, and WTF there was practically no availability whatsoever for the entire months of July and August, and I was trying to book a couple of months (or more) in advance. Shame on SWA when they make any claims about availability of frequent flier flights at the economy level of redemption.
So the past 2 trips we have taken have been on UNITED and it was refreshing to be on a decent airline. It was also very nice to use the Airport Club lounge with passes we got from the United Explorer credit card. And semi-related, that new terminal at McCarran was NICE !
But, when I book flights, I admit I usually go with the best price.
I converted some Airtran Freq Flier credits to get FF flights on SWA, and WTF there was practically no availability whatsoever for the entire months of July and August, and I was trying to book a couple of months (or more) in advance. Shame on SWA when they make any claims about availability of frequent flier flights at the economy level of redemption.
So the past 2 trips we have taken have been on UNITED and it was refreshing to be on a decent airline. It was also very nice to use the Airport Club lounge with passes we got from the United Explorer credit card. And semi-related, that new terminal at McCarran was NICE !
But, when I book flights, I admit I usually go with the best price.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
September 7th, 2013 at 4:30:42 AM
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JetBlue gets my vote as well. Basically the only time I fly is when I go to Vegas and back, since I live in the northeast. They have direct flights to Vegas from both Boston and New York. They may not be in as many airports as other carriers, but they are where I need them and I'm pretty loyal to them. The TV/Satellite radio in each seat is a huge plus, and I like the channel with the real-time map showing the flight's path/progress, speed, and altitude. I booked my upcoming Vegas flight 3 months ago and the pricing was equivalent to or less than what other airlines were charging.
September 7th, 2013 at 5:18:36 AM
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If you live in Buffalo it is Southwest #1 and everyone else a distant #2. Only airline with direct flights to Vegas from here. I agree with Wiz that prices are not always the best anymore. However, I'm not exactly sure what my price point is for choosing a direct flight over one with a connection, but I have never chosen the one with a connection. I do use Jet Blue for my NYC trips. I love the little TV each seat has.
September 7th, 2013 at 5:30:24 AM
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Still Southwest for me. I always check a bag so factor in a minimum of $50 savings per round trip on Southwest. Their line up boarding method is the most efficient too. Included checked bags also means less hassle getting on and off due to fewer and smaller carryons on the plane.
Jet Blue and Alaska are second and third. United is the absolute worst. I waited in line for an hour to get a hotel voucher after two cancellations due to their inability to schedule a crew. There were THREE people in front of me. 20 min per person to issue crappy hotel vouchers and $20 of food credit for an overnight stay.
Jet Blue and Alaska are second and third. United is the absolute worst. I waited in line for an hour to get a hotel voucher after two cancellations due to their inability to schedule a crew. There were THREE people in front of me. 20 min per person to issue crappy hotel vouchers and $20 of food credit for an overnight stay.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:05:14 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabsI voted Alaska.
They would be high on my list if one of their baggage handlers hadn't pilfered my luggage on a trip to Anchorage.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
September 7th, 2013 at 6:17:33 AM
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I have some Star Alliance Gold status through Air Canada with all of my travel and have seen alot of travel on US, UA. I've done some travel on Delta, American, Alaska, and JetBlue. For leisure travel I travel LUV out of Buffalo or Air Canada out of Toronto.
Of course you are going to favor an airline if you get to use the first class lounges or get Economy Plus seating or free bags or other benefits with having some status. But even with beneifts on United and US Airways, the domestic versions are crap.
LUV has the best benefits to its basic travellers. Free bags and no change fees. You can board early by spending $12.50 on Earlybird or wait until exactly 24 hours before flight to board towards the front. And plenty of snacks and a decent beverage. If you are going to bring flying down to its lowest common denominator, Southwest does it.
I think JetBlue has the best service for a domestic airline but their network is still lacking, but from Buffalo, if I want to go anywhere besides JFK, BOS, or MCO, I've got to go there first which will add hours to any commute westward. JetBlue needs a mid-nation hub, like a Chicago, Dallas, Minneapolis, or St. Louis.
Of course you are going to favor an airline if you get to use the first class lounges or get Economy Plus seating or free bags or other benefits with having some status. But even with beneifts on United and US Airways, the domestic versions are crap.
LUV has the best benefits to its basic travellers. Free bags and no change fees. You can board early by spending $12.50 on Earlybird or wait until exactly 24 hours before flight to board towards the front. And plenty of snacks and a decent beverage. If you are going to bring flying down to its lowest common denominator, Southwest does it.
I think JetBlue has the best service for a domestic airline but their network is still lacking, but from Buffalo, if I want to go anywhere besides JFK, BOS, or MCO, I've got to go there first which will add hours to any commute westward. JetBlue needs a mid-nation hub, like a Chicago, Dallas, Minneapolis, or St. Louis.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 7th, 2013 at 6:26:15 AM
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When I was traveling every other week and before the United fiasco, having status on Continental was wonderful. I flew first class almost everywhere that I flew when traveling to/from Texas with the exception of DCA-IAH on Friday afternoons...there were a crazy amount of platinum members on that route for the weekend. I attained Gold one year and Silver every year for about five years. The service was great and the only "issue" I had was that my wife always took the first class seat when we traveled together!!
In comes United. They brought their bad service with them.
That leaves Southwest as my favorite at this point. They work hard to be on time, they have resisted fees, you can cancel flights and reuse ALL the funds, they try to be fun, etc. Their prices have increased to the same level as the majors, so the real selling point now is that they cost less overall and, even when they don't, you don't have to pay a huge price if your plans change.
In comes United. They brought their bad service with them.
That leaves Southwest as my favorite at this point. They work hard to be on time, they have resisted fees, you can cancel flights and reuse ALL the funds, they try to be fun, etc. Their prices have increased to the same level as the majors, so the real selling point now is that they cost less overall and, even when they don't, you don't have to pay a huge price if your plans change.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:55:46 AM
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I had to think about this a bit. I like Southwest for its cattle-like delivery system. Yes, I actually like that if I'm expecting it and Southwest does that well. With Southwest, I can roll out of bed and take a flight from the nearby Ronkonkoma Intergalactic Starport a.k.a. MacArthur Airport (ISP) to near anywhere I want to go in the country. I live about 5 miles away from ISP. It's really convenient and doesn't have the nightmarish security that JFK does.
But Southwest comes in #3 since they took away the non-stop flight to Las Vegas.
Number 2 on my list is JetBlue. From Idlewild a.k.a. John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), I can get non-stop flights to Las Vegas cheap and they have a nice TV to view on the way. What takes them out of first place is their new terminal. It's unnecessarily huge and set back from the intra-terminal transportation system. walk walk walk walk walk.
Coming in at #1 is Virgin America, also at JFK. They are in the International Terminal which is always empty. Virgin's gate is right past the security area, no walkies. Their planes are nice, their people are nice, I've never had a bad experience with Virgin. They don't suck.
Speaking of the new JetBlue terminal at JFK, I used to fly TWA all the time. I loved TWA. They had a non-stop flight from JFK, flight number 777. It was a later flight so I could work on Friday and then take the A train to the airport and head out to Las Vegas for the weekend. I miss TWA. They used to take me non-stop to Orlando for cheap and one stop in St. Louis for a trip to New Orleans. Then American Airlines took them over. I despise AA. They are the last choice on my list when looking for flights. American Airlines has mastered the art of annoying their passengers, Feh!!
But Southwest comes in #3 since they took away the non-stop flight to Las Vegas.
Number 2 on my list is JetBlue. From Idlewild a.k.a. John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), I can get non-stop flights to Las Vegas cheap and they have a nice TV to view on the way. What takes them out of first place is their new terminal. It's unnecessarily huge and set back from the intra-terminal transportation system. walk walk walk walk walk.
Coming in at #1 is Virgin America, also at JFK. They are in the International Terminal which is always empty. Virgin's gate is right past the security area, no walkies. Their planes are nice, their people are nice, I've never had a bad experience with Virgin. They don't suck.
Speaking of the new JetBlue terminal at JFK, I used to fly TWA all the time. I loved TWA. They had a non-stop flight from JFK, flight number 777. It was a later flight so I could work on Friday and then take the A train to the airport and head out to Las Vegas for the weekend. I miss TWA. They used to take me non-stop to Orlando for cheap and one stop in St. Louis for a trip to New Orleans. Then American Airlines took them over. I despise AA. They are the last choice on my list when looking for flights. American Airlines has mastered the art of annoying their passengers, Feh!!
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
September 7th, 2013 at 7:12:46 AM
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I voted SWA even though you can't fly nonstop out of Dallas unless you are flying to a contiguous state due to the Wright amendment. So for my flight to Vegas next week we have to stop in Albuquerque, but at least there are options where you don't have to change planes. Thankfully that amendment expires soon.
September 7th, 2013 at 9:19:47 AM
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Southwest for me.
I have a SW Visa card that I use for everything possible. I earn enough points for about 8 free* non stop round trip flights each year from the mid west. (*not totally free- I am required to pay a $5 security fee each way).
I have a SW Visa card that I use for everything possible. I earn enough points for about 8 free* non stop round trip flights each year from the mid west. (*not totally free- I am required to pay a $5 security fee each way).
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see.
September 7th, 2013 at 9:25:51 AM
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The correct answer is, whoever has the cheapest Vegas flight that isn't Spirit. Charging for a.carry on is ridiculous.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
September 7th, 2013 at 9:54:02 AM
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I am going to make an unpopular choice. Allegiant. Living in Las Vegas it is amazing the prices you get to mid sized cities and all flights are direct. I recently flew them to Boise for $98 RT, Sioux Falls last week for $154 RT, and Missoula for $109 RT.
Years ago I used to travel Las Vegas to Atlantic City (PHL) every single week (Sunday to Thursday). America West was my choice then. I believe they now own US Airways.
Years ago I used to travel Las Vegas to Atlantic City (PHL) every single week (Sunday to Thursday). America West was my choice then. I believe they now own US Airways.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 7th, 2013 at 11:11:16 AM
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I won't fly for free on America West and I have the expired free voucher to prove it!Quote: DRichAmerica West was my choice then
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
September 7th, 2013 at 3:06:02 PM
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Recently I've flown Spirit, Continental and United. I had an issue with Spirit because my bag was too big. I solved the issue and not have the proper bag. I also like that for 18 bucks, I can choose a seat with leg room. I usually don't have a problem with airlines. I will buy the cheapest flight at the best times.
The trip I have in November I am flying out to Vegas on Southwest and returning via Spirit Air. Breaking up my round trip fare and paying for 2 one way tickets on different airlines. SW was 129 and Spirit was 158 with a front row seat with legroom. I was lucky to get a seat up front on SW too during a recent sale. I didn't have enough available to buy the SW R/T for 258, so I just bought the one way saving 40 bucks. The original Airfare was 169 one way and then shot up to 189, so I went to Spirit Air.
I refuse to check baggage. I don't want to spend 30-60 minutes waiting for my clothes unless I'm doing my laundry.
The trip I have in November I am flying out to Vegas on Southwest and returning via Spirit Air. Breaking up my round trip fare and paying for 2 one way tickets on different airlines. SW was 129 and Spirit was 158 with a front row seat with legroom. I was lucky to get a seat up front on SW too during a recent sale. I didn't have enough available to buy the SW R/T for 258, so I just bought the one way saving 40 bucks. The original Airfare was 169 one way and then shot up to 189, so I went to Spirit Air.
I refuse to check baggage. I don't want to spend 30-60 minutes waiting for my clothes unless I'm doing my laundry.
Buffering...
September 7th, 2013 at 4:10:59 PM
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It might be advisable to check Southwest, where I found this PHL-LAS flight:Quote: kewljSouthwest used to be something special....low price, efficient, dependable. Not so much any more. . . . They also no longer offer nonstop from Vegas to Philly.
Depart Arrive Flight # Routing Travel Time Business Select $566 - $577 Anytime $538 - $549 Wanna Get Away
7:50 AM 10:25 AM 234 Nonstop 5h 35m $566 $538
and its mirror-image companion:
2:30 PM 10:10 PM 4450 Nonstop 4h 40m $566 $538
Two flights that more than coincidentally I am taking around Christmas week. (And at a much different fare.)
September 9th, 2013 at 8:22:38 AM
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I'm surprised United did better in our poll than American. They both suck, but in my experience, American has better (slightly) service. But it's a pointless debate-- like arguing whether Circus Circus Reno is superior to Circus Circus Las Vegas.
I voted for Hawaiian because they serve each passenger in economy class 1 free alcohol drink. I like Virgin America because they have the best in-flight entertainment system (yes, it's better than JetBlue's.)
And I like Southwest's lenient policies for changing your reservation with no fees. But I'm convinced Southwest has the stingiest frequent flier program in the industry-- I've earned far more free tickets on United despite the fact I fly Southwest more often.
I voted for Hawaiian because they serve each passenger in economy class 1 free alcohol drink. I like Virgin America because they have the best in-flight entertainment system (yes, it's better than JetBlue's.)
And I like Southwest's lenient policies for changing your reservation with no fees. But I'm convinced Southwest has the stingiest frequent flier program in the industry-- I've earned far more free tickets on United despite the fact I fly Southwest more often.
September 9th, 2013 at 9:49:57 AM
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I fly by price, which also equates to the worst: Spirit.
But, for $90 round trip from Denver to Las Vegas for G2E, I'm ok with it. I travel very light, so I don't need to pay for a carry-on. The "personal item" space is good enough for me to last a few days.
But, for $90 round trip from Denver to Las Vegas for G2E, I'm ok with it. I travel very light, so I don't need to pay for a carry-on. The "personal item" space is good enough for me to last a few days.
I heart Crystal Math.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:07:53 AM
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Quote: rainmanAllegiant my choice is based on price and price only. $50.00 from Bli to Vegas $50.00 from Vegas back to Bli.
Do you live in Canada? I understand that as BLI is 21 miles across the border, it is a popular option for Canadians.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:45:50 AM
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Quote: CrystalMathI fly by price, which also equates to the worst: Spirit.
But, for $90 round trip from Denver to Las Vegas for G2E, I'm ok with it. I travel very light, so I don't need to pay for a carry-on. The "personal item" space is good enough for me to last a few days.
I typically fly by price too and I have a flight booked on Spirit at the moment. It has been booked for some time(because of price), however they changed the itinerary of that trip and now it's horrid.
Original itinerary
Houston to Dallas
Dallas to Ft. Myers(final destination)
and reverse coming home
now
Houston to Chicago
Chicago to Ft. Myers
and reverse with longer layovers and getting home even later in the evening...sucks!!
September 9th, 2013 at 11:15:22 AM
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I don't care much for TV for TV's sake, but JetBlue's monitors were cool and appreciated. I hate looking out the window and seeing something interesting, but having no idea how to figure out what it is. That GPS deal on JetBlue's monitor is helpful in that case. At least then I can ballpark where it was at and find out what it was.
Other than that, I'll just shut up as I don't belong in this thread. Hell, I leave for Wyoming in 9 days and have no idea whatsoever of what airline I'm flying on...
Other than that, I'll just shut up as I don't belong in this thread. Hell, I leave for Wyoming in 9 days and have no idea whatsoever of what airline I'm flying on...
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
October 3rd, 2013 at 2:20:02 PM
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Quote: renoI'm convinced Southwest has the stingiest frequent flier program in the industry-- I've earned far more free tickets on United despite the fact I fly Southwest more often.
UPDATE: In March 2014, Southwest's Rapid Rewards program will get even stingier. For their Wanna Get Away fares, the point value will drop from 1.67 cents to 1.4 cents per point.
October 15th, 2013 at 10:11:14 PM
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Airline Question
I didn't want to create a new thread to ask this question, so this seemed like the most closely-related thread.
Okay:
How the heck do airlines determine how much they are going to charge?
I don't want to reveal my entire itinerary for this trip, so I'm going to use cities that have nothing to do with me.
Imagine if I lived in Fremont, Nebraska, and I wanted to take a trip to Las Vegas:
The closest city to me with a major airport is going to be Omaha, I think, so I get my cheapest flight in Omaha which is a one-stop flight with the connecting flight to Vegas taking place in Kansas City, MO.
I start thinking about it, though, and I say, "Well, Kansas City's not that much of a drive, perhaps I could save money by driving to Kansas City and just taking the flight directly to Vegas from there, after all, one flight is certainly less than two."
I get on-line and look at the price for the same exact flight going from Kansas City to Las Vegas, only to find that the flight...and there'd only be one...is 20% MORE than flying out of Omaha and grabbing the connecting flight in Kansas City.
I know that there must be a reason that this makes sense. What is it? I certainly can't figure it out. It seems like you are paying less to take two flights.
I didn't want to create a new thread to ask this question, so this seemed like the most closely-related thread.
Okay:
How the heck do airlines determine how much they are going to charge?
I don't want to reveal my entire itinerary for this trip, so I'm going to use cities that have nothing to do with me.
Imagine if I lived in Fremont, Nebraska, and I wanted to take a trip to Las Vegas:
The closest city to me with a major airport is going to be Omaha, I think, so I get my cheapest flight in Omaha which is a one-stop flight with the connecting flight to Vegas taking place in Kansas City, MO.
I start thinking about it, though, and I say, "Well, Kansas City's not that much of a drive, perhaps I could save money by driving to Kansas City and just taking the flight directly to Vegas from there, after all, one flight is certainly less than two."
I get on-line and look at the price for the same exact flight going from Kansas City to Las Vegas, only to find that the flight...and there'd only be one...is 20% MORE than flying out of Omaha and grabbing the connecting flight in Kansas City.
I know that there must be a reason that this makes sense. What is it? I certainly can't figure it out. It seems like you are paying less to take two flights.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 15th, 2013 at 11:51:44 PM
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The cost of an airline ticket is generally due to competition or lack of competition. If Southwest, Air Tran, Frontier or Spirit flies the route, you are going to have some reasonable fares. The Legacy carriers, Delta American United tend to have higher fares if they are not competing against the low cost carriers. If only 1 legacy carrier flies the route, they will charge whatever they feel they can get away with.
Also lower fares are controlled capacity airfares. Each airline often has about 10 different fares on a particular flight. They only sell so many seats at their rock bottom price. They only sell a certain amount of seats at a particular fare . So as a plane fills up, the cost to get on the flight increases.
Also airlines try to figure out ways to charge more to the business traveler yet keep fares lower for vacationers. This is because business travelers will pay whatever where as vacation travelers will not fly if its too expensive. So we have the Sat nite stay rule. Vacationers will spend a weekend at their destination, business travelers generally don't. Some cheaper fares have minimum stay rules. Vacationers don't just spend 1 day at destination, business travelers will do that.
Also lower fares are controlled capacity airfares. Each airline often has about 10 different fares on a particular flight. They only sell so many seats at their rock bottom price. They only sell a certain amount of seats at a particular fare . So as a plane fills up, the cost to get on the flight increases.
Also airlines try to figure out ways to charge more to the business traveler yet keep fares lower for vacationers. This is because business travelers will pay whatever where as vacation travelers will not fly if its too expensive. So we have the Sat nite stay rule. Vacationers will spend a weekend at their destination, business travelers generally don't. Some cheaper fares have minimum stay rules. Vacationers don't just spend 1 day at destination, business travelers will do that.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:36:28 AM
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Quote: CrystalMathI fly by price, which also equates to the worst: Spirit.
But, for $90 round trip from Denver to Las Vegas for G2E, I'm ok with it. I travel very light, so I don't need to pay for a carry-on. The "personal item" space is good enough for me to last a few days.
Geezzzz that must be nice my flight out of Calgary into Vegas in December looks like this ( one way ticket)
Flights
Calgary (YYC)
Depart:
Tue Dec 17, 6:30 PM
Las Vegas (LAS)
Arrive:
Tue Dec 17, 8:10 PM
Air transportation charges (ATC)
1 adult - base fare:
$119.00 CAD
Other ATC:
$7.50 CAD
Taxes, fees and charges:
$87.54 CAD
Total with taxes:
$214.04 CAD
Total price:
$214.04 CAD
Part of that fee is the Calgary Airport improvement fee paid by each person flying out of Calgary to any place.....$25
October 16th, 2013 at 2:46:00 AM
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Quote: terapinedThe cost of an airline ticket is generally due to competition or lack of competition. If Southwest, Air Tran, Frontier or Spirit flies the route, you are going to have some reasonable fares. The Legacy carriers, Delta American United tend to have higher fares if they are not competing against the low cost carriers. If only 1 legacy carrier flies the route, they will charge whatever they feel they can get away with.
Also lower fares are controlled capacity airfares. Each airline often has about 10 different fares on a particular flight. They only sell so many seats at their rock bottom price. They only sell a certain amount of seats at a particular fare . So as a plane fills up, the cost to get on the flight increases.
Also airlines try to figure out ways to charge more to the business traveler yet keep fares lower for vacationers. This is because business travelers will pay whatever where as vacation travelers will not fly if its too expensive. So we have the Sat nite stay rule. Vacationers will spend a weekend at their destination, business travelers generally don't. Some cheaper fares have minimum stay rules. Vacationers don't just spend 1 day at destination, business travelers will do that.
I certainly understand most of that as representing fundamental Economic principles, supply-and-demand, and all of that stuff. The business travellers are essentially a captive market because they must go wherever it is they are going.
My question, however, was if you want to fly to City A from City B, but that requires a stop in City C to pick up the direct flight to City A, then why would flight package:
City C---City A
Cost 20% more than:
City B---City C---City A
When the flight from City C to City A is literally the same exact flight either way?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 16th, 2013 at 3:34:19 AM
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It is similar to hotel rooms. What is the demand for that route on that day. Price medium at first until you cover the fixed costs, then high as most of the marginal revenue goes to profit. Then lower as an empty airline seat is same as an empty hotel room. Route competition plays a part as well, so they watch that same as Wynn watched room prices at Caesars.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 16th, 2013 at 4:16:18 AM
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I voted Southwest but, to be fair, I've only flown on a couple of the others.
October 16th, 2013 at 4:18:08 AM
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Quote: Mission146I certainly understand most of that as representing fundamental Economic principles, supply-and-demand, and all of that stuff. The business travellers are essentially a captive market because they must go wherever it is they are going.
My question, however, was if you want to fly to City A from City B, but that requires a stop in City C to pick up the direct flight to City A, then why would flight package:
City C---City A
Cost 20% more than:
City B---City C---City A
When the flight from City C to City A is literally the same exact flight either way?
Ok now I follow you. Lets say City B is Columbus Ohio. City A is Tokyo. City C is Detroit.
So you Get on a Delta Flight from Columbus OH, switch Detroit and go to Tokyo.
Your roundtrip fare is say 1k
Your friend in Detroit is gonna join you but he is simply going to get on the plane in Detroit and fly with you to Japan.
Delta is charging your friend 1.5K.
Here is the reason.
Competition and convenience.
You are leaving out of Columbus and connecting in Detroit to get to Tokyo. You have a lot of choices. Fly UA and switch in Chicago. Fly AA and switch in Dallas. If UA or AA is cheaper, you will fly them instead of Delta. So Delta sets fare at 1k like UA and AA to get your business. Delta has no advantage, they offer connecting service just like everybody else.
Now Detroit to Tokyo, that's a nonstop. Delta has a competitive advantage. If you are in Detroit, you can fly nonstop to Tokyo for 1.5K or fly to Chicago or Dallas and switch and pay 1k. In fact, since DL has set a benchmark price of 1.5K , AA and UA may take advantage of that and set their connecting fare out of Detroit to 1.5k to match or maybe 1.25k since they connect just to make a bit more profit on this route. Due to convenience, Delta finds that if it charges more, they still sell seats because a lot of travelers will pay extra for a nonstop.
Switching planes sucks, if your 1st flight is delayed, can miss connection, may be sleeping at an airport till the next day.
It all gets complicated with fares and yea, I'm in the business so these questions are right up my alley.
No business like the airline business. The whole concept is backwards from any other business.
Their best customers, business travelers often have to pay high fares due to business needs, no sat nite stay, short trips, buying ticket day of travel. All expensive. Now Ma and Pa taking their yearly vacation to see the grandkids gets the cheap deal, buying 2 months ahead, staying 1 week or longer, cheap fare.
Best customer gets charged the most, infrequent customer gets the deal. lol
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2013 at 6:29:03 AM
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Quote: terapinedThe cost of an airline ticket is generally due to competition or lack of competition. If Southwest, Air Tran, Frontier or Spirit flies the route, you are going to have some reasonable fares. The Legacy carriers, Delta American United tend to have higher fares if they are not competing against the low cost carriers. If only 1 legacy carrier flies the route, they will charge whatever they feel they can get away with.
Also lower fares are controlled capacity airfares. Each airline often has about 10 different fares on a particular flight. They only sell so many seats at their rock bottom price. They only sell a certain amount of seats at a particular fare . So as a plane fills up, the cost to get on the flight increases.
Also airlines try to figure out ways to charge more to the business traveler yet keep fares lower for vacationers. This is because business travelers will pay whatever where as vacation travelers will not fly if its too expensive. So we have the Sat nite stay rule. Vacationers will spend a weekend at their destination, business travelers generally don't. Some cheaper fares have minimum stay rules. Vacationers don't just spend 1 day at destination, business travelers will do that.
Mission,
terapined has a lot of it detailed above correctly. There are a couple of other factors in play as well:
Even though airlines were deregulated in 1978 and escalated from 1981, there is some legacy legislation and new pushback legislation that factors in on certain under-served areas and routes, where some of the cost of transport is subsidized, some is capped. These things are all programmed in (see below).
Most airlines pay to use American's proprietary software Saabre for their reservation/pricing structure. The algorithms are closely held, but make predictive and cumulative moves many times a day based on demand/trends/history/operation costs/weather trends/many other variables. The database of bookings is shared for the most up-to-date pricing and estimates, and has more than 20 years history, but they're not guessing what the competition is doing; they know. And it's to their mutual business benefit that they share this information. Their math guys are constantly updating the formulae.
Add in all of what terapined said....and you get a probably subsidized ticket from Omaha, either from a competitive route or legislation assisting the heartland, whereas KC has been a minor hub for SW for 20 years (connecting from a couple dozen inbound points), and LAS a major destination and minor hub for them; hub-to-hub can be the highest priced connection if not booked in conjunction with a subsidized/competitive leg. No telling which variables will dominate on any given day, or even any given hour.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
October 16th, 2013 at 6:39:23 AM
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I've only ever flown Delta and Southwest. (When I was 12 or so, I think my family and I flew Northwest to Vegas. But that's Delta now, isn't it?)
I voted for Delta.
Had this been a few months earlier, I would have voted Southwest. But their prices have steadily risen for my nonstop trips from Detroit to Vegas over the past year. So much so that Delta has been cheaper the past 4 times I've had to book a flight, and that's even after lumping the $50 round trip baggage fees in.
Last December I paid $220 RT from Detroit to Vegas on Southwest. I'm going about the same time this year as well and the price was nearly $500!! Delta was $100 cheaper ($150 before baggage fees).
Delta also has TV screens in their seats sometimes, which makes the flights go by so much better. SW has nothing like that.
SW does have better snacks though.
I've never had a customer experience problem with either airline. And I've experienced minor delays on both so they're tied in that area.
Spirit is always cheaper than both. But I will never, EVER fly Spirit. I value my sanity too much.
I voted for Delta.
Had this been a few months earlier, I would have voted Southwest. But their prices have steadily risen for my nonstop trips from Detroit to Vegas over the past year. So much so that Delta has been cheaper the past 4 times I've had to book a flight, and that's even after lumping the $50 round trip baggage fees in.
Last December I paid $220 RT from Detroit to Vegas on Southwest. I'm going about the same time this year as well and the price was nearly $500!! Delta was $100 cheaper ($150 before baggage fees).
Delta also has TV screens in their seats sometimes, which makes the flights go by so much better. SW has nothing like that.
SW does have better snacks though.
I've never had a customer experience problem with either airline. And I've experienced minor delays on both so they're tied in that area.
Spirit is always cheaper than both. But I will never, EVER fly Spirit. I value my sanity too much.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
October 16th, 2013 at 7:08:52 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanIt is similar to hotel rooms. What is the demand for that route on that day. Price medium at first until you cover the fixed costs, then high as most of the marginal revenue goes to profit. Then lower as an empty airline seat is same as an empty hotel room. Route competition plays a part as well, so they watch that same as Wynn watched room prices at Caesars.
But, it's the same route!!! The only difference is that you pay less to use two of their planes than you do to use one of their planes!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 16th, 2013 at 7:14:50 AM
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BeachBumBabs & Terapined,
Thanks for the answers! It makes as much sense as it can possibly make to me now, which still isn't a ton, but a little more at least. If both flights are from the same carrier, do you think I could call that carrier and say, I'm taking both your, "Omaha to KC," flight and connecting on your, "KC to LAS," flight, or would you prefer to save yourself a few dollars by giving me a slightly cheaper rate on your, "KC to LAS," flight so the, "Omaha to KC," flight could possibly go to someone else needing to connect?
Or, would they respond, "We don't care about being able to sell, 'Omaha to KC,' to someone else, we are not discounting, 'KC to LAS,' for you."
Thanks for the answers! It makes as much sense as it can possibly make to me now, which still isn't a ton, but a little more at least. If both flights are from the same carrier, do you think I could call that carrier and say, I'm taking both your, "Omaha to KC," flight and connecting on your, "KC to LAS," flight, or would you prefer to save yourself a few dollars by giving me a slightly cheaper rate on your, "KC to LAS," flight so the, "Omaha to KC," flight could possibly go to someone else needing to connect?
Or, would they respond, "We don't care about being able to sell, 'Omaha to KC,' to someone else, we are not discounting, 'KC to LAS,' for you."
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
October 16th, 2013 at 7:22:21 AM
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Quote: Mission146But, it's the same route!!! The only difference is that you pay less to use two of their planes than you do to use one of their planes!
This was a common thing in the 1990s at PIT. People would actually drive to Cleveland and fly *through* PIT because it was cheaper. I have heard of people driving to Altoona today to do the same on a smaller scale.
I guess what you have to consider is that you are paying for the point-to-point trip, not the number of planes or net miles flown. FWIW, hub airports have always been more expensive to fly out of. There seems to be a lot of sunk costs in operating a hub. Southworst built their business by avoiding hubs altogether.
The downside to no-hubs is you have less of a base of operations. Everything form maintenance to crew basing to extra medical crash kits has to be spread over more places.
Pricing is weird because aviation is just a horrible business model.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
October 16th, 2013 at 7:49:22 AM
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Quote: Mission146BeachBumBabs & Terapined,
Thanks for the answers! It makes as much sense as it can possibly make to me now, which still isn't a ton, but a little more at least. If both flights are from the same carrier, do you think I could call that carrier and say, I'm taking both your, "Omaha to KC," flight and connecting on your, "KC to LAS," flight, or would you prefer to save yourself a few dollars by giving me a slightly cheaper rate on your, "KC to LAS," flight so the, "Omaha to KC," flight could possibly go to someone else needing to connect?
Or, would they respond, "We don't care about being able to sell, 'Omaha to KC,' to someone else, we are not discounting, 'KC to LAS,' for you."
You read my Columbus to Detroit to Tokyo vs Detroit to Tokyo example? Its convoluted pricing but I thought the explanation was logical.
Airlines view everything as city pairs regardless of connection or nonstop. Omaha to Vegas is one city pair with a set price. KC to Las is another city pair. with a different price. If you buy a Omaha to KC to LAS ticket. Airlines view it simply as a Oma to Las city pair ticket. Say you call the airline and want to make a change using less of there service, not flying Omaha to KC, and simply boarding the plane in KC to Las. Will the airlines cut you a break for using less of their services. Of course not. You changed the city pair from Omaha/LAS to KC/LAS. Due to city pair change, Major airline would charge 200 plus difference in fare just to use less service.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2013 at 8:09:38 AM
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Quote: Mission146But, it's the same route!!! The only difference is that you pay less to use two of their planes than you do to use one of their planes!
Mission,
I used to travel a lot. I would buy the cheapest leg I could find, no matter where it originated, if I was at a hub. Then I would throw away the part of the ticket I didn't use. Can't do that any more post 9-11, but if you save more than 100 or so doing that, call the day of the flight and re-book for the change fee.
(Edit) looks like terapined addressed this same thing; you can check pricing by airline for change fees. Some allow no-fee changes, some price per RT, others price per leg. There's an edge to be worked sometimes, other times you just grit your teeth and go.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
October 16th, 2013 at 8:16:11 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabsMission,
I used to travel a lot. I would buy the cheapest leg I could find, no matter where it originated, if I was at a hub. Then I would throw away the part of the ticket I didn't use. Can't do that any more post 9-11, but if you save more than 100 or so doing that, call the day of the flight and re-book for the change fee.
If you don't show up for any part of your ticket, everything downline gets cancled. If Mission was doing OMA to MCI to LAS and Back home LAS to MCI to OMA.
If he did not show up in OMA and decided to board in MCI, not possible, once you noshow in OMA, everything downline gets cancled. If on the way home, he switches planes in MCI and decides that's it and not get on MCI to OMA, that is doable.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2013 at 8:32:01 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanThis was a common thing in the 1990s at PIT. People would actually drive to Cleveland and fly *through* PIT because it was cheaper. I have heard of people driving to Altoona today to do the same on a smaller scale.
SHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I don't want them to jack up the rates if they think someone is about to buy a ticket!
Quote:
Pricing is weird because aviation is just a horrible business model.
That seems to sum it up.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
