Panhandler solution

Cities like Las Vegas should offer $1, $5 ... and up, coupons. You purchase it from the city, and panhandlers redeem it at designated shelters. They could have expiration dates and be numbered for security (like counterfeit).

Only purchases of food that can be eaten there, like on a lunch tray. And it wouldn't be stealable, unless you like the equivelent of prison food. Or perhaps purchase small item tolietries and used clothes at these places.

Oscar the former mayor would probably go for it. He was considered a enemy of the homeless by some, as he insisted they needed to use city services.

SO, THE NEXT TIME YOU'RE ASKED FOR SPARE CHANGE, YOU CAN OFFER THEM A COUPON.

So, you get the benefit of not helping moochers, but maybe actually helping someone.

My guess is you've never been homeless. Neither have I, but from what I understand, food is one of the easiest problems to solve while homeless. By and large, homeless don't need food -- but they do need a whole bunch of other things, like clothes, medicine, toiletries, and, of course, shelter. They also need money for other things -- perhaps for laundry services, prepaid cell phones, transportation, and various miscellaneous expenses if they want any hope to get their life together.

Food is not a human's sole need. I do not understand why it's considered acceptable to give a homeless person food, but not money so he can buy what he really needs. Even if he is "blowing" it on alcohol -- being homeless is probably pretty difficult. Why should I begrudge someone his brief respite from reality?

My philosophy boils down to this -- anyone standing out in the cold/heat/rain asking me for a dollar probably needs that dollar more than I do.

I never give money to individuals. That doesn't help them, it only makes the problem worse. I'm a big government guy, so I'm all for rounding them up and putting them in a shelter where they can get counseling, guidance, medical services (physical and mental) and most important, I never have to smell them again. Tax me double already!!

This does seem like a really good idea. Maybe these coupons could be used at other charitable orginizations as well like Churches. Perfect post for Holy Thursday with its emphaisis on loving sacrifice and service for the needy. [edit: response is to original post]

(per sodawater)Well, I'm as liberal as they come around here. Ask anyone. Practically a communist (some probably think).

I want to steal everyones money from the haves and give it to the havenots( many probably think)

But I don't see any problem with the idea. Except maybe fraud, but that's always a concern. The cops might still have to pick up the insane for their own good. In fact, that would still be a good idea, because some people are so mentally ill they don't have a concept of proper behavior.

Wouldn't change anything. They would just sell the coupons, and probably for less than face value for cash so that they can purchase whatever it is that they really want, beer, drugs, ect. The coupons would become a secondary form of barter below face value.

I volunteer at a homeless shelter one day a week and I see this with the EBT food money. It is my understanding that the government went away from old paper food stamps some time ago because of this exact problem. Now with the EBT benefits, which are placed on a debit-like card, the recipients will wait outside a grocery store and offer to pay for someones groceries with their EBT card in exchange for cash of 50% of value.

So, John who is issued $100 in snap benefits (foodstamps) on his EBT card, will purchase $100 of some regular consumers groceries. That regular consumer will pay John $50 cash. John has sold his food benifits for 50 cents on the dollar and now has money to buy beer or drugs or whatever. The regular consumer made out getting $100 worth of groceries for only $50. So the benefits aren't being used as intended and John spends his $50 on beer, but has no food benefits for the month. The exact same misuse would take place with the coupons you are suggesting.

There's a difference here, that you're missing. The public is distributing the coupons at will. I assume most people wouldn't purchase more than a few of small denominations.

A EbT is a windfall all at once. This would still require someone to man a spot and collect them all day. This devalues the process more than just getting a loaded cash card.

Also, you wouldn't be able to use them at grocery stores at half value or any value.. As their purpose is on-site use only, in-shelter, eaten cafeteria food for instance. So, they would have to employ extra tricks to perpetrate fraud.

if nothing else, purchasing one would get money directly to shelters when you buy it. If the person wanting spare change can sell it somehow, that money you spent still goes to the shelter.

Quote: sodawater

By and large, homeless don't need food -- but they do need a whole bunch of other things.

If you watch shows like Survivorman, whenever
he's made homeless anywhere the very first thing
he does is seek shelter or build it. Then he finds
water. Food is always last. Being protected from
the elements is always the priority if your homeless.

Quote: rxwine

There's a difference here, that you're missing. The public is distributing the coupons at will. I assume most people wouldn't purchase more than a few of small denominations.

A EbT is a windfall all at once. This would still require someone to man a spot and collect them all day. This devalues the process more than just getting a loaded cash card.

why would you want to encourage panhandlers to man a spot and beg for coupons? I am sorry but this is the worst idea... it's lose-lose.

Quote: sodawater

why would you want to encourage panhandlers to man a spot and beg for coupons? I am sorry but this is the worst idea... it's lose-lose.

Why would you want to perpetuate a problem by giving them spare change that they are also begging for anyway?

If you give positive reinforcement like spare change, people respond. The purpose is to move them to use city facilities (if provided by city)

Wouldn't arresting them be a better option? Then the truely needy could get help.

None of the change I have is "spare."

Homeless need the three B's...
Booze, Broads, and Blow...

Quote: DeMango

Wouldn't arresting them be a better option? Then the truely needy could get help.

Arresting is an option. It's probably the second worse use of police resources. (the other being driving the long way to Dunkin Donuts)

Quote: rxwine

Why would you want to perpetuate a problem by giving them spare change that they are also begging for anyway?

If you give positive reinforcement like spare change, people respond. The purpose is to move them to use city facilities (if provided by city)

Why would you want to perpetuate the problem by giving them coupons? If you give positive reinforcement like coupons, people respond. I would think the purpose would be to get them to stop being homeless, which is only going to happen when people stop enabling them.

There are 2 kinds of homeless as far as I can see. Those that through some calamitous circumstance have become destitute, and those that prefer the homeless lifestyle of having few, if any, responsibilities. There are plenty of services available for the first kind, and they rightly deserve a hand. There will never be enough handouts for the second kind because they have no interest changing their lifestyle. Oh, I'm sure if you asked them they might tell you that they'd like to get out of it, but actions speak louder than words. If they really wanted out there are programs to help them.

Quote: s2dbaker

I never give money to individuals. That doesn't help them, it only makes the problem worse. I'm a big government guy, so I'm all for rounding them up and putting them in a shelter where they can get counseling, guidance, medical services (physical and mental) and most important, I never have to smell them again. Tax me double already!!

Plenty of homeless avoid shelters like the plague. Shelters are dangerous places to stay as they attract a lot of bad people. Homeless people often feel they are better off in their own makeshift shelter where they might have a few close friends to watch each other's back.

But feel free to send in your extra taxes of course.

Quote: AZDuffman

Plenty of homeless avoid shelters like the plague. Shelters are dangerous places to stay as they attract a lot of bad people. Homeless people often feel they are better off in their own makeshift shelter where they might have a few close friends to watch each other's back.

But feel free to send in your extra taxes of course.

The other problem they have is that shelters have rules and many of these guys do not want to follow rules. They are free spirits and trust no one. The only true answer for dealing with the homeless is personal responsibility and accountability. Without it you have, oh wait, America today.

I think the OP has started a very good discussion. I certainly
don't know the answer, but certainly a donation to the United
Way would be also be a good step in the right direction. At
least there is some oversight and efficiency there.

[troll]Of course you could just send homeless people into an armed homeowner's backyard and they could shoot them and claim self-defence. That would be an easy way to take care of the homeless [/troll]

Most people on the street that are homeless are mentally ill. As a result, they don't do well with shelters because they're disruptive in that setting. It's a tall order for municipalities and governments to setup infrastructure to take care of these people, and it's extremely expensive to do so, too. Even if you provide them with shelter, it needs to be in place with income support and mental health support, and frankly, in places where such a program exists, the demand for such services far outweighs the supply. Many of these people belong in long term mental institutions until they get better, and quite simply, most governments will not provide those services. Of course there are preventation techniques to minimize people from becoming homeless: access to free / affordable health care, removing the stigma of mental disease, early mental health intervention programs, and so on.

For example, someone close to me started having schizophrenia to the point where she thought that something was going to kill her that night. Police were called and she was admitted to a mental institution where she stayed for a few nights and put on the right medication. She returned home and stayed on the medication, and a nurse came to her home once a week to ensure that she stayed on her medication and got the correct therapy. All of this cost her family nothing. Had there been a financial impediment it's likely that this person would have killed herself or destroyed her family relationship to the point where she would have ended up on the street had the mental condition been untreated.

The best thing that the public can do for the homeless is to to support the services that support them by giving your excess items to those services be it food, clothing, furniture, or money. An individual donation to a homeless person really only keeps the person on the street or perpetuates a bad habit.

Quote: boymimbo

Most people on the street that are homeless are mentally ill. As a result, they don't do well with shelters because they're disruptive in that setting. It's a tall order for municipalities and governments to setup infrastructure to take care of these people, and it's extremely expensive to do so, too. Even if you provide them with shelter, it needs to be in place with income support and mental health support, and frankly, in places where such a program exists, the demand for such services far outweighs the supply. Many of these people belong in long term mental institutions until they get better, and quite simply, most governments will not provide those services. Of course there are preventation techniques to minimize people from becoming homeless: access to free / affordable health care, removing the stigma of mental disease, early mental health intervention programs, and so on.

Part of the issue here is that we have changed how we take care of the mentally ill in the USA, not completely for the better. There used to be more large mental institutions (like the one in Buffalo next door to Buffalo State College) where people would be kept in different levels of security long term. This is because with some people to just "give them their medicine and send them on their way" is to put them back on the street. Lots of mental medications have side effects so bad the people would rather not take them and be ill mentally than take them and feel sick physically. They even had a "Law and Order" on that subject.

Society must face that some people will just be mentally ill no matter what you do. In nature they would die off as unable to provide for their selves. In society we don't allow that. But if we went back to enforcing laws on vagrancy and mopery to get them off the streets we could get them into a system where they had to check in and get help.

Quote: boymimbo

Most people on the street that are homeless are mentally ill.

Do you have a source to back up that claim? Because I have several that say differently.

In Canada, 40% of the homeless have a mental illness. Poverty is the greatest cause of homelessness. The solution to poverty is to get a job. These people without mental illness who are simply on the streets due to poverty would do well in public shelters and food banks.

In the United States, 39% of the homeless have mental illness, 38% have alcohol abuse, 28% have substance abuse problems. The chronically homeless mostly have mental health issues or substance abuse issues.

Quote: sodawater

My philosophy boils down to this -- anyone standing out in the cold/heat/rain asking me for a dollar probably needs that dollar more than I do.

Yes, but our capitalist society addresses property rights, not people's needs therefore it is your moral obligation to refuse to give him what he has a need for since the primary need is the imposition of the work ethic.

Quote: boymimbo

In Canada, 40% of the homeless have a mental illness. Poverty is the greatest cause of homelessness. The solution to poverty is to get a job. These people without mental illness who are simply on the streets due to poverty would do well in public shelters and food banks.

In the United States, 39% of the homeless have mental illness, 38% have alcohol abuse, 28% have substance abuse problems. The chronically homeless mostly have mental health issues or substance abuse issues.

Good to see you've amended your statement to more accurately reflect the truth.

Quote: FleaStiff

Yes, but our capitalist society addresses property rights, not people's needs therefore it is your moral obligation to refuse to give him what he has a need for since the primary need is the imposition of the work ethic.

Since when does capitalism state their is an individual obligation NOT to give somebody in need something if the individual wishes to?

Seriously, where did that come from?

One of the biggest problems today in food pantries is the people utilizing them are not self sufficient in the kitchen. 30-40 years ago you would walk into a food pantry and you would see either canned food or ingredients. If someone came in and got flour, yeast and eggs they could make bread. Today it is more pre-packaged meals which A) are more expensive and B) do not feed as many people

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

Why would you want to perpetuate the problem by giving them coupons? If you give positive reinforcement like coupons, people respond. I would think the purpose would be to get them to stop being homeless, which is only going to happen when people stop enabling them.
.

I consider it an inbetween measure. Spare change practically insures they stay on the street. The coupon moves them to proper resources which may involve the structure and resources to get some of them off the street.

And I assume we are already doing the refuse to give anything meausre anyway. This gives the people who feel compelled to give "something" something more useful to give.

Actually, I'll modify my last statement. I know that some people will likely feel compelled by the lines or hard luck story, (true or untrue as they may or may not be), so this gives them a better option then just giving money.