Lip Syncing

Does anyone remember Milli Vanilli? Fast forward twenty years to a Justin Bieber concert in Arizona this week.

Our young hero became ill and vomited on stage in the middle of a song. While he was vomiting his vocals never missed a beat. Oops. Is lip syncing now the norm?

Quote: 1BB

Is lip syncing now the norm?

Probably in pop music, especially the superstars or at big events where they don't want any mistakes. And just think, if there's a backing band they probably aren't really playing either. It would be really hard to keep a prerecorded vocal in sync with live music as bands tend to play faster live because of the excitement of being on stage.

Some vocals would be nearly impossible for the "singer" to even replicate given the way auto-tune is essentially used as another instrument in much of pop music.

The issue with Milli Vanilli was not that they were lip syncing but that it wasn't their voices their were lip syncing to.

I think the problem these days is that there are so many studio effects put into a song, effects that cannot always be duplicated in a concert venue, that it wouldn't sound anywhere near the same if someone were to simply stand on stage and sing.

There are increments of "artificial" in the music industry but I don't think anyone is doing the Milli Vanilli thing at this point.

There are some folks that perform with no artificial support.

It is very possible for a live band to match perfectly with pre-recorded background support of other musicians. I know of at least of one group that does it all the time. In that case, the support adds extra instrumentation but not vocals or any of the "key" instruments. I'm sure there are more than a few do that.

There are folks who use auto-tune to keep their voice artificially perfect. Most of them would pain you to hear without that support.

The folks that dance a lot have likely always used some degree of lip-syncing. They dance their behinds off yet their voices have no hint of breathlessness or anything after an hour or more of activity?

I guess there are still people that do the whole pre-recorded deal...I wish they had to advertise as such because I go see live music for the "live" part of it. Of course, I am not going to see Justin B. anyway...

Your right. They probably wouldn't have lost that Grammy had it been their own voices.

Quote: RonC

It is very possible for a live band to match perfectly with pre-recorded background support of other musicians. I know of at least of one group that does it all the time. In that case, the support adds extra instrumentation but not vocals or any of the "key" instruments. I'm sure there are more than a few do that.

Note I said "really hard" not impossible. If you're getting a pulse of some sort from the drummer (and/or the drummer is playing to a click track and/or you're triggering from the click track) and you have pre-programmed parts and trigger them it would be much more doable. Even if it were samples you could break them into chunks and trigger them so that even if you did get somewhat off it wouldn't be for long. But doing everything with midi/sequencers would be a whole lot easier than samples.

I'd be interested to know what band you're referring to in your post, because I can think of a few offhand as well. When Rush performs "Time Stand Still" live Amiee Mann's vocal part is triggered and if you didn't know she wasn't there you'd never know the difference, it fits perfectly. Though in all fairness it's a short vocal snippet. Danny Carey drummer of Tool also triggers samples which as far as I know are limited to percussion sounds but it makes some of the polyrhythm beats he is known for more manageable/playable.

Quote: RonC

There are folks who use auto-tune to keep their voice artificially perfect. Most of them would pain you to hear without that support.

IMO, it can be pretty painful to hear them with it. I can't stand how auto-tune is used in some pop music, it just sounds painfully fake to my ears.

Most of these pop icons, especially the ones with tightly choreographed shows, use a supporting vocal track. Lady Gaga seems to be the exception to this rule.

Quote: s2dbaker

Lady Gaga seems to be the exception to this rule.

Or not...

Gaga Fail

Not being a fan I had no idea about the claim. This took about 15 seconds to locate.

I brought this up after the Madonna Superbowl Halftime Show. I watche it and immediately noticed she was doing it. It might have been reported or others noticed later, I forget.

IMHO, it is done for a few reasons.

First, as others mentioned, some songs are so technical that to do them onstage is difficult if not impossible. An employee who was in a band told me this when I brought up to him that I did not know The Beatles never toured except very early in their careers. He said it was about all the insturments they played for some of the songs. What made them good on a record made them too hard to do live, and if you did they were still too hard to get right.

Second, since the 1980s the shows have gotten more animated. While years ago the lead singer stood at a mic, they had to if it was wired, today's shows often have the singer dancing at the same time. And it is not a Sammy Davis, Jr tap-dance while he held the mic. It can be a mix of dance, ballet, and gymnastics. You simply cannot do this and sing well if at all at the same time withiout the lung cpacity if an elephant.

Finally, again IMHO, today's audiences are unsophisticated about what a live show is. Remember the "live" versions of classic rock songs? Some liek them, some hate them, but they captured a different feel and were just a recording of a good performance. Today I believe people want to hear the performer exactly as they do on the MP3. They would rather a "perfect" show than a "unique" show.

As to Milli Vinilli I never saw what the fuss was about. If you liked the music, why would you care if they guys on the cover didn't sing it?

Quote: AZDuffman

...The Beatles never toured except very early in their careers. He said it was about all the insturments they played for some of the songs. What made them good on a record made them too hard to do live, and if you did they were still too hard to get right.

Maybe to some extent, but the Beatles stopped touring in 1966, their last studio album at that point was Revolver which has some sitar on a couple songs and the orchestral instruments on Eleanor Rigby. That doesn't make that much of their catalog up to that point difficult to reproduce live. Other things that might have had something to do with their decision was the flap in the Philippines when they offended Imelda Marcos and pissed off pretty much the whole place. And it was also in the wake of John Lennon's "bigger than Jesus" comment which also got them death threats. Some have attributed it to general burn out as well. And there's also the part where they literally couldn't hear themselves on stage over the noise made by their fans.

The live music performances that I usually attend are of a very different style and involve no lip syncing at all. Performers may take requests, and if it's something they can't match to the CD, they either say they can't play it or they just say that it won't sound much like the recording then give you the live experience. Much better in my opinion.

My younger son works the sound board at a lot of live performances, and we have discussed this stuff a bit. I complain that I want to hear what the performers in front of me are capable of doing on their own. On cruise ship shows, I get something different from what I am accustomed to -- I have griped about watching a crew of six musicians, four singers, and six dancers where you can hear about 15 instruments and eight or ten voices. I understand that they can't fit or afford all of the musicians and singers it takes to put on that whole performance live, but I would much prefer that they just do a number that only requires six musicians and four singers, with the dancers providing their own performances without pretending that they are singing too.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

Maybe to some extent, but the Beatles stopped touring in 1966, their last studio album at that point was Revolver which has some sitar on a couple songs and the orchestral instruments on Eleanor Rigby. That doesn't make that much of their catalog up to that point difficult to reproduce live. Other things that might have had something to do with their decision was the flap in the Philippines when they offended Imelda Marcos and pissed off pretty much the whole place. And it was also in the wake of John Lennon's "bigger than Jesus" comment which also got them death threats. Some have attributed it to general burn out as well. And there's also the part where they literally couldn't hear themselves on stage over the noise made by their fans.

Just saying what I was told, though their later stuff is different from the earlier. I vote burnout and tired of dealing with all of it played a part. Some bands like touring, some hate it.

One American group doing a European Tour discovered that a tv appearance would routinely involve performing into a dead microphone while the pre-recorded music went out over the air.

Not everyone considers it improper.

Quote: FleaStiff

One American group doing a European Tour discovered that a tv appearance would routinely involve performing into a dead microphone while the pre-recorded music went out over the air.

Not everyone considers it improper.

It's been a staple of TV performances for a long, long time (for example, Hee Haw, which ran from 1969-1971 used most, if not all lip sync'd musical performances). It's probably used pretty much anytime the producers what a "no screw up" performance, and especially so with big name acts for which such screw ups would be really embarrassing.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

It's been a staple of TV performances for a long, long time ....

I remember an episode of the Perry Como TV series, known as Perry Como's Kraft Music Hall, which ran from 1950 to 1966. This ep was probably in the early/mid 60s.

The opening production number had choreography that involved Perry and maybe a dozen other people riding around a huge stage in golf carts while they sang. At the end of the number, Perry looked at the camera and explained that the music and singing had been pre-recorded, which was something they never did on the show. He explained why they had done it that time by doing a live reprise of the beginning of the number. Those were gasoline-engine golf carts, like riding lawn mowers without the blades, and the noise completely overwhelmed the singing.

At least they were honest enough to come right out and say they had been lip syncing, and they got points for humor on the reprise, too. If you've genuinely got the talent, and you aren't trying to present on recording something you can't really do yourself, live performances shouldn't be a problem.

Quote: 1BB

Does anyone remember Milli Vanilli? Fast forward twenty years to a Justin Bieber concert in Arizona this week.

Our young hero became ill and vomited on stage in the middle of a song. While he was vomiting his vocals never missed a beat. Oops. Is lip syncing now the norm?

I find this incredible and unbelievable.

You were watching Justin Bieber?????

Quote: kenarman

I find this incredible and unbelievable.

You were watching Justin Bieber?????

Ha Ha. No,it was being discussed on a news show.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)

Probably in pop music, especially the superstars or at big events where they don't want any mistakes. And just think, if there's a backing band they probably aren't really playing either. It would be really hard to keep a prerecorded vocal in sync with live music as bands tend to play faster live because of the excitement of being on stage.

Some vocals would be nearly impossible for the "singer" to even replicate given the way auto-tune is essentially used as another instrument in much of pop music.

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I remember on Saturday Night Live a few years ago when Ashlee Simpson started lip synching the wrong song because they started the wrong track.

When you go to big shows these days you are paying for the show as much as the music, so lip synch (or singing over their own track) is to be expected.

I am pretty sure the SNL was a case of her trying to get her way to lip sync due to "illness"
in spite of the show having a tradition of live performance,
And someone "accidentally" cueing the wrong track to make a point and embarrass her.

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