BBC: Could legalising marijuana save the US economy?
Quote: beachbumbabsI think there's a big difference between what Amsterdam experienced and what Colorado can expect in "spikage".
Maybe, but doubtful. The weakest and the stupidist,
namely people who use drugs on a regular basis,
always manage to drag the rest of us down to their
level when things that should be illegal are legalized.
It won't be any different this time.
Quote: beachbumbabsI think there's a big difference between what Amsterdam experienced and what Colorado can expect in "spikage". We have a common language, and it takes nothing to cross state lines in America, so free influx of people nationwide who wish to partake. More importantly, America has a puritan double standard about what we do and how we act about illegal substances and social legislation, where Amsterdam has a cultural pragmatic outlook on behavioral issues. There's a whole new industry springing up in "pot vacations" or whatever they're calling them in Colorado, and the numbers are through the roof. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people using pot for medicinal purposes, and acquiring it illegally where they live, who will seriously consider moving to a state where it's legal (several people I know already are); it's that important to their quality of life, and they are not happy with under-the-table transactions of dubious product. So I think it's going to spike way higher than expected and stay there until there's more nationally available states which permit it.
Honestly had not thought about a majority of those points, all very valid arguments. Touche. Really just have to wait and see how everything plays out I guess.
Quote: TranscendReally just have to wait and see how everything plays out I guess.
It will play out like it always does. For instance,
in the 70's MI made it legal for 18 year olds to buy
alcohol. I think it took two years for the weak
and stupid in the 18 to 21 demographic to ruin
it for everybody else. They were killing themselves
and others on the highways in such record numbers
the law had to be repealed.
The weak and stupid always ruin it for everybody
else. In CO right now, they can't keep edibles containing
pot in them on the shelves. Who do you think is
eating all that, adults over 21? Hell no, it's kids in
school and in college, getting older kids over 21 to
buy it for them. It won't take long for the weak and stupid
to binge the the law into repealment, it's natures way.
Quote: EvenBobMaybe, but doubtful. The weakest and the stupidist,
namely people who use drugs on a regular basis,
always manage to drag the rest of us down to their
level when things that should be illegal are legalized.
It won't be any different this time.
And just what has been legalized that should illegal that has managed to drag people like you down?
Quote: treetopbuddyAnd just what has been legalized that should illegal that has managed to drag people like you down?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/11044-bbc-could-legalising-marijuana-save-the-us-economy/16/#post313678
Quote: treetopbuddyAnd just what has been legalized that should illegal that has managed to drag people like you down?
I'll take a shot at this one. High fructose corn syrup.
Back to the mj question. Weed is probably the most peaceful mind altering herb on the planet. Alcohol which maybe is what he was referring too as a dangerous drug has ruined more lives than all the common illegal drugs combined.
It will take years to fix the ignorance from anti pot propaganda. It is quite possibly a miracle product. Did you ever see the car that Henry Ford made using hemp plastic? Or the fuel he used to power it from hemp?
We all know it was legal until the tax stamp act promoted by Dupont after he discovered nylon and couldn't handle the competition made it a target for bought off politicians.
Discovery after discovery is happening for the benefit of the planet now that more researchers are getting easier access to the product. I read just the other day scientists in the UK think thc may fight cancer itself better than any chemo drug.
It's nearly impossible to inform the people to look at this objectively versus the brainwashing since "refer madness", Forest Gump was right.
It's better for fuel than corn, better for paper than trees, stronger than cotton for clothes, and safer than alcohol for the humans that need an escape after a days toil.
Quote: EvenBobIt won't take long for the weak and stupid
to binge the the law into repealment, it's natures way.
I have not doubt that your right. The first fatal car accident caused by somebody over indulging on pot (extremely rare) will cause such a hue and cry along with pearl grabbing that the laws will eventually be repealed. The Feds still hold a huge hammer over the states as it relates to marijuana law.
The problem is people can't handle the negative consequences that freedom imposes on us from time to time.
if you're a non-resident, you just can't take
it across state lines. Gee, I wonder how
many times an hour that law is violated
not only by casual users, but by people
who intend to cut the super weed with
inferior weed, and resell it out of state.
You can only buy a quarter of an ounce at
a time, but there are 14 stores in Denver,
two guys could easily buy 10oz in a day.
This will a nightmare for the state police,
it probably already is.
Quote: EvenBob
This will a nightmare for the state police,
it probably already is.
Are you kidding? This is a wet dream for cops. They can get their adrenaline on......they love this stuff. That's a fact, JACK!
Quote: petroglyphIt will take years to fix the ignorance from anti pot propaganda. It is quite possibly a miracle product. Did you ever see the car that Henry Ford made using hemp plastic? Or the fuel he used to power it from hemp?
We all know it was legal until the tax stamp act promoted by Dupont after he discovered nylon and couldn't handle the competition made it a target for bought off politicians.
Discovery after discovery is happening for the benefit of the planet now that more researchers are getting easier access to the product. I read just the other day scientists in the UK think thc may fight cancer itself better than any chemo drug.
It's nearly impossible to inform the people to look at this objectively versus the brainwashing since "refer madness", Forest Gump was right.
It's better for fuel than corn, better for paper than trees, stronger than cotton for clothes, and safer than alcohol for the humans that need an escape after a days toil.
I don't think anybody would deny any of this. Smoking it is what garners the most opposition.
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't think anybody would deny any of this. Smoking it is what garners the most opposition.
Using it as a drug is their platform against it, if you read my much earlier post...It was pointed out that it has a vast array of uses but companies that have people lobbying in Washington are the main propent against it because it will hurt their bottom line. Do you think the oil industry wants you to use a renewable resource to make plastic from? Do you think the oil industry wants you to use a renewable resource as fuel? Both major things that would wreck their profits, while at the same time benefitting the world in terms of less pollution. Not too mention pharmaceutical companies would lose copious amounts of money as well. Right now the most abused drug in america is prescription pills. If you were able to be prescribed marijuana instead of a pill or not even prescribed just the ability to legally use it over a pill, a large number of people would never become hooked on highly addictive medications such as pain pills. If it became legal, there would be major changes in many industries nation wide.
I don't disagree that those are powerful forces, but I was talking hard numbers. The majority of people who are against the legalization of marijuana do so based on their opposition to smoking it.
Quote: Beethoven9th^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't disagree that those are powerful forces, but I was talking hard numbers. The majority of people who are against the legalization of marijuana do so based on their opposition to smoking it.
The general public yes, which I guess would be the real issue considering it is a state based issue right now. It would have to be a nation wide issue for what I am talking about to come in to play on a larger scale. Years of misconceptions brain washing the masses. To think it all started because the Mexicans were taking our jobs.
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't think anybody would deny any of this. Smoking it is what garners the most opposition.
Personally, I don't do altered states of any kind, and I can think of no defense for actually smoking anything although I have in the past. In my thinking though, smoke if you want but I prefer it doesn't get on me.
I've also had to take so many random drug tests for my employment I can see where some might fail a test from second hand smoke and if they are innocent that would be pretty bad.
Like Bob said, a few will mess this up for the majority. Some people will probably find a need to get their kids loaded or smoke it in the same room with them and the litigation will be endless. Not to mention peta getting involved because someone wants to get their cat stoned, oh the horror.
It may be different recently but I have read as much as 1 in 6 were in jail for mj crimes? Thirty to forty large per prisoner for a mostly victimless crime is insane to me. And yet Billary and the Bernanke roam free.
Quote: petroglyphQuote: Beethoven9thI don't think anybody would deny any of this. Smoking it is what garners the most opposition.
Personally, I don't do altered states of any kind, and I can think of no defense for actually smoking anything although I have in the past. In my thinking though, smoke if you want but I prefer it doesn't get on me.
I've also had to take so many random drug tests for my employment I can see where some might fail a test from second hand smoke and if they are innocent that would be pretty bad.
Like Bob said, a few will mess this up for the majority. Some people will probably find a need to get their kids loaded or smoke it in the same room with them and the litigation will be endless. Not to mention peta getting involved because someone wants to get their cat stoned, oh the horror.
It may be different recently but I have read as much as 1 in 6 were in jail for mj crimes? Thirty to forty large per prisoner for a mostly victimless crime is insane to me. And yet Billary and the Bernanke roam free.
You are not going to fail a test from secondhand smoke unless they are taking a blood test which can measure trace amounts in your system. Standard urine or hair test you will pass unless you were sitting in an enclosed tent with Willie nelson for a week.
Getting the stuff in the first place. We now
have a state where any citizen can go and
buy it. Are they going to stop every car
leaving CO and search them?
Canada never sold more booze than when the
US had Prohibition. Most of the hooch went
right across the border. Just like it eventually
will in CO. Oh yeah, this is not going to end well.
Quote: EvenBob
Oh yeah, this is not going to end well.
It's going to end well for law enforcement. Shinier cop cars, more cops, better pensions/health care, more drug dogs that will hit on a pile of sawdust, more rectal exams, better Christmas parties for the "first responders"....
Only with exclusive markets there will be a niche and prices will fall the longer it's legal as it falls closer to the true costs of production. The excess price will be better spent on other things though and I think it's good.Quote: EvenBobWhat's the hardest part of selling pot illegally?
Getting the stuff in the first place. We now
have a state where any citizen can go and
buy it. Are they going to stop every car
leaving CO and search them?
Canada never sold more booze than when the
US had Prohibition. Most of the hooch went
right across the border. Just like it eventually
will in CO. Oh yeah, this is not going to end well.
The difference between alcohol and weed though is with weed people know their abilities are hampered and with alcohol not so much. The reefer madness is just much ado about nothing.
We've sold fireworks the same way in Ohio allowing purchase but not use and it works even though people use them anyways.
Quote: treetopbuddyI don't think legalizing the devils weed will help the economy. The myth is that if the plant were made legal the country will be overtaken by reefer madness and everybody and their uncles will be smoking. I'm guessing initially usage would spike nominally and then return to pre-legalization levels.
Legalization might help the government (never a good thing). More tax revenue and less money spent on throwing pot smokers in jail. Pot smokers in general like buying from friends and sometimes the guy in a trench coat. What we would have here is another government sponsored enterprise.
THC levels across the board are higher than lets say the seventies. Although very potent weed was available in the 70's and before. Hash oils, etc were widely used going way back.
It takes less pot to get the same high that smokers were looking for in the 60-70's. Smokers use less marijuana today to get the same high.
The underground pot economy is highly efficient and great for the economy. Once the government gets involved the efficiencies go out the window. Regulation and taxation levels on the weed will always make an underground pot economy competitive.
Miami was build on the illegal drug trade.
I smoke rarely, it's no big deal. I find it takes the fight out of me and leaves me couch locked which really is not a good thing.
While all of that may be true from an economic freedom perspective, the benefits of weed NOT being illegal outweigh everything else in my opinion.
Theoretically you could legalize it and not tax/regulate it. But given that you have to go through the government to legalize it, I don't think that would ever fly.
I hope that eventually we get to the point where you can grow at home for personal use. Under the WA statute, that is still illegal.
Quote:
Q: Can I grow my own marijuana now? Can I sell my homegrown marijuana?
A: Home grown marijuana for recreational use, as well as sale, is illegal. Recreational use marijuana must be purchased from a state-licensed retailer.
(source)
I think this is dumb, but whatever,
Quote: AcesAndEights
I think this is dumb, but whatever,
Not any dumber than having a still and
making liquor. The state wants the taxes.
Quote: zippyboyand go back to buying on the street again.
Of course they will, just like they'd rather
buy moonshine in some states. So you'll
have revenuers crawling all over the place
looking to bust illegal operations. The more
things change, etc.
Quote: zippyboyAll the people who said before it was legal "Yeah! Legalize and tax the hell out of it!" are now shocked shocked that they now have to pay an extra 21% tax in addition to the mark-up the dispensaries charge. Those dispensaries are buying from the local growers, who used to sell directly to the users. Let's say I used to be able to buy an ounce for $250 from my friend, but now he sells all he can grow to the pot store for $325, then they mark it up to $410, then there's the 21% tax on top of that. Even though many dispensaries ran out of merch the first week, customers are realizing they actually don't want to pay the taxes after all, and pay $500 for the same thing they used to get for $250, and go back to buying on the street again.
yep
Quote: zippyboyAll the people who said before it was legal "Yeah! Legalize and tax the hell out of it!" are now shocked shocked that they now have to pay an extra 21% tax in addition to the mark-up the dispensaries charge. Those dispensaries are buying from the local growers, who used to sell directly to the users. Let's say I used to be able to buy an ounce for $250 from my friend, but now he sells all he can grow to the pot store for $325, then they mark it up to $410, then there's the 21% tax on top of that. Even though many dispensaries ran out of merch the first week, customers are realizing they actually don't want to pay the taxes after all, and pay $500 for the same thing they used to get for $250, and go back to buying on the street again.
+1
Long long lines
Typical lines today 2 blocks long
This is estimated to be a 8 billion dollar market
Smart move, lots of tax dollars
I am in the process of securing my Florida medical marijuana card. About 1/2 way through the process
I hope it's not as big a rip off as the legal MMJ is in Az. It costs me just short of 300 per year for my license to buy "state legal" medication.Quote: terapinedLegal in Canada today
Long long lines
Typical lines today 2 blocks long
This is estimated to be a 8 billion dollar market
Smart move, lots of tax dollars
I am in the process of securing my Florida medical marijuana card. About 1/2 way through the process
A dr. visit yearly with a statement that mmj, might help with a medical condition and the state rapes me for another 150. That 150 was only supposed to pay for the administration of mmj cards. So far the state has banked tens of millions of dollars beyond what it costs them to admin the program, but the state is so evil that it will not cut the price to patients.
Imagine what it would be like if heart patients had to buy a license yearly for heart medication, or cholesterol patients had to buy yearly, permission for their Lipitor. Or diabetics had to buy yearly, a license to possess insulin. It's either medication or it isn't.
The whole thing is a scam, and a fine example of the transparency and truthfulness of our government, but thankfully less users are going to jail for possession. Until that time, Perdue marches forward making tens of billions of dollars creating addicts out of sufferers with their opiate products, and the public picks up the tab for the side affects.
The hypocrisy of the state is so great that, when mmj was "legalized" in Az., a patient could possess weed, but go to jail for the pipe used to consume it. Meanwhile cannabis is still listed as a class one narcotic, as harmful to society as heroin and meth. These are the lies that both sides agree with, while hundreds of thousands are put in prison for weed, at the same time that several POTUS's have admitted to using it.
Good luck on not being a criminal for possession anymore.
Quote: petroglyph
The whole thing is a scam, and a fine example of the transparency and truthfulness of our government
Its pretty bad in FL
200.00 to see the MMJ DR to get approved
75.00 to the state for the ID card
180.00 to MMJ DR to renew after 1 year
Here is where it gets real bad. Voters approved it. Republicans running the state in Florida refused to approve because they hate MMJ. They really dragged this out for years. They don't care what the voters approved
Regardless MMJ is still illegal in FL regardless of the vote
With the card, I can buy oils and concentrates.
MMJ remains illegal and cant be bought with an ID card even though the voters approved
Republicans in FL just don't want to approve what the voters approved
That sounds almost identical to Az. They did the same thing in Alaska, a state where cannabis has never really been illegal. Voters approved it, then thise in charge heaped rules on it to the point, no one qualified to sell it. So it went underground...er. It now has to be tested in State approved labs, but parts of the state are not accessible by any other means than airplane or boat. So it is illegal by an legal means, to transport the product to or from a testing facility. Also the local Chambers of commerce are typically against mmj for multiple personal reasons, so although it was approved by the voters, it is largely unobtainable legally.Quote: terapinedIts pretty bad in FL
200.00 to see the MMJ DR to get approved
75.00 to the state for the ID card
180.00 to MMJ DR to renew after 1 year
Here is where it gets real bad. Voters approved it. Republicans running the state in Florida refused to approve because they hate MMJ. They really dragged this out for years. They don't care what the voters approved
Regardless MMJ is still illegal in FL regardless of the vote
With the card, I can buy oils and concentrates.
MMJ remains illegal and cant be bought with an ID card even though the voters approved
Republicans in FL just don't want to approve what the voters approved
So in practice, it hasn't changed, the local guv takes their cut, but the trade in the product is largely under the table, where the cops are still trying to nail people.
Quote: terapinedLegal in Canada today
Long long lines
Typical lines today 2 blocks long
This is estimated to be a 8 billion dollar market
Smart move, lots of tax dollars
I am in the process of securing my Florida medical marijuana card. About 1/2 way through the process
Too rich.
For 47 years, forty seven f#$%ing years, we've been lied to. For 47 years we have burned money hand over fist, at a rate that stands today at SIXTEEN HUNDRED F#$%ING DOLLARS PER SECOND, to wage a "war" on our own goddamn people. For 47 years we've been harassed and persecuted, jailed and killed. Millions of lives churned up in our ever-growing, largest-in-the-history-of-the-world prison industrial complex, all to line a handful of pockets. Pain and ailment relief denied for untold tens of millions, all to line a handful of pockets. Plain ol' recre-f#$%ing-ation denied because, as Buzz was wont to say, you have committed the crime of recreation without taxation. Theft of cars and trucks, guns and houses, real property, all done under the bastardization of what used to be genuine and proper asset forfeiture laws. And don't forget another weapon in the arsenal to keep them pesky negroes from going rapin' crazy. Can't never forget about that.
And now.... now that .gov is in a pinch because they were too busy suckling at the member of Big Pharm to see the complete f#$%arrow developing all around them, and because .gov couldn't balance a goddamn weeble on a gyroscope let alone a budget, now they throw open the gates and expect us to be happy? And you f#$%ing ARE?!
Someone keep tabs on ZK. I'm gonna need him soon.
Thank a farmer. Buy local.
Once Phillip Morris/Monsanto-Bayer, and Perdue have secured all the patents on MJ, they will start putting it in school lunches to calm the brats down, and make them hungry for more GMO soy products.Quote: FaceSomeone keep tabs on ZK. I'm gonna need him soon.
Thank a farmer. Buy local.
I just can't imagine how a person with any conscience could go to bed at night knowing they are sending kids, whom they are supposed to represent, into foster care left and right, because the bribe money was sufficient.
I think at least half of them are aroused by such things.
WTF
Its ok to get plastered on beer and hard liquor
But
The horror of taking a bong hit
Quote: terapinedCBS is refusing to run MJ ads during the super bowl
WTF
Its ok to get plastered on beer and hard liquor
But
The horror of taking a bong hit
It's still illegal in most states. Not sure how states would feel about someone advertising an illegal product in their state.
wow
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/us/marijuana-pot-sales-colorado-billion-trnd/index.html
Legalize prostitution everywhere and tax it.
Legalize REAL casinos everywhere (not these half-a** Indian casinos) everywhere and tax it.
People are doing all this stuff every single day, it blows my mind the government is not taking advantage of legalizing it and taxing it. It's free money for them.
Quote: mcallister3200And a lot of really old people I guess too.
When I hit up my local dispensary, lots and lots of old people buying :-)
Quote: terapinedWhen I hit up my local dispensary, lots and lots of old people buying :-)
For sure. I just said that bc polls have the only political subset the majority against it is senior citizen republicans.
