Obamacare is Constitutional
Quote: s2dbakerSo sayeth the SCOTUS.
More freedom lost today. Now the government can make you do ANYTHING by saying "it is a tax, and you have to buy it because you might be in the market one day anyways."
Another sad day for the USA.
Quote: AZDuffmanNow the government can make you do ANYTHING by saying "it is a tax, and you have to buy it because you might be in the market one day anyways."
Obama promised not to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250k p/year. Politicians never lie.......right?
You may self-deport yourself if this country isn't free enough for you. BTW, the individual mandate is completely unenforcible because of the conscientious objector clause. But gnash your teeth and wail all you want as long as I can help you pack up your stuff.Quote: AZDuffmanMore freedom lost today...
Another sad day for the USA.
Quote: s2dbakerYou may self-deport yourself if this country isn't free enough for you. BTW, the individual mandate is completely unenforcible because of the conscientious objector clause. But gnash your teeth and wail all you want as long as I can help you pack up your stuff.
So is it a mandate or not? Come on, give me a break. If you do not pay the IRS will see to that you cannot have any assets in your name, ever.
I'd go somewhere else but 99% of them are worse if for no other reason than the socialized medicine.
There's always Somalia. Have a safe move.Quote: AZDuffmanSo is it a mandate or not? Come on, give me a break. If you do not pay the IRS will see to that you cannot have any assets in your name, ever.
I'd go somewhere else but 99% of them are worse if for no other reason than the socialized medicine.
Quote: s2dbakerThere's always Somalia. Have a safe move.
I think I will stay and join the coming Revolution. All we have to do is go back to the Constitution as it was before 1900 and we are all set!
Quote: AZDuffmanI think I will stay and join the coming Revolution. All we have to do is go back to the Constitution as it was before 1900 and we are all set!
You and Scalia into the time machine.
I think John Roberts just got his name crossed off conservative cocktail party list, being the swing vote and all. I think they thought it would be Kennedy. I think, anyway.
There's your liberal bias at work :p
I don't see the logic...
Quote: rxwineYou and Scalia into the time machine.
I think John Roberts just got his name crossed off conservative cocktail party list, being the swing vote and all. I think they thought it would be Kennedy. I think, anyway.
The Constitution is not a "time machine" it is meant to be read as it was intended when it was written, just like any contract you write. Other than some bad ammendments (direct election of Senators and allowing an income tax the main ones) what we want is the correct interpertation of what the Constitution means, not this "it is a living, breathing doccument" crapola.
NOTHING in the Constitution gives the government power to make me buy a product from a private party. Via the 10th Ammendment that power is reserved to ME.
Roberts did dissapoint. I thought he was supposed to be a strict constructionalist. People forget that is the point. Obama himself thinks the SCOTUS is supposed to "fight for the little guy" instead of be impartial and Constitutional.
Quote: s2dbakerThe arbiters of what is constitutional disagree with AZDuffman and since they are the final arbiters of what is or is not constitutional, I would tend to believe them over AZDuffman.
So you agree Bush v Gore was a Constitutional decision!
Quote: IbeatyouracesIMO the Constitution is nothing more than a worthless piece of paper. The fact that it can be amended (another word for changed) proves it.
Yeah, a worthless piece of paper that built the oldest continuing republic government and codified freedom for the first time.
The only piece of paper that millions of people peldge their life to defend! In England if you join the army you pledge to defend he Queen, in the USA you pledge to defend what you call a worthless piece of paper.
BTW: The ammendment process is what makes it work. Had we not had this process you would not have the right to free speech, to protect yourself with a gun, or to a fair trial. But you might possibly still have the right to own slaves.
Quote: AZDuffmanSo you agree Bush v Gore was a Constitutional decision!
Sure. But the deciding votes were cast by a guy whose wife's employment hung in the balance (Thomas) and a guy who was buddies with Dick Cheney (Scalia). In any other court in any other jurisdiction in the USA, they'd have been forced to recuse themselves. But, no such mechanism of forced propriety is thrust upon the supreme court...
Quote: AZDuffman. Had we not had this process you would not have the right to free speech, to protect yourself with a gun, .
yeah, in the 1970s, the NRA started specifically arguing for gun rights as a platform instead gun rights as part of a well-ordered militia. And it worked.
They changed something so obvious, to quote justice Warren Burger the new interpretation of the 2nd Amendment was, "one of the greatest pieces of fraud" on the American public by special interest groups.
Quote: AZDuffman
Statement #1: The Constitution is not a "time machine" it is meant to be read as it was intended when it was written.
Statement #2: BTW: The ammendment process is what makes it work.
So it's meant to be read as it was intended, but amending it (i.e. changing the words) is what makes it work?
I agree that the SCOTUS made a decision but I do not recall them saying that anything was or was not constitutional.Quote: AZDuffmanSo you agree Bush v Gore was a Constitutional decision!
Now, disagreeing with the outcome is a different matter...
Quote: avargovSorry...double post...cursed Obamaphone
that's worth a LOL!
Quote: FinsRuleSo it's meant to be read as it was intended, but amending it (i.e. changing the words) is what makes it work?
It is not ammended easily. But that is what makes it work. POTUS at first ran as an individual. Had it been as written then when JFK was shot Nixon would have taken over. Well, that one would have been for the better. But lets go on. Slavery could not be banned at the passing, too political. Eventually it was. No plans for what to do if PORTU and VPOTUS taken out at once, that was added in the 1960s when it looked like it could happen. POTUS limited to two terms after FDR r, even efused to leave the job even after he extended the Great Depression yet had a great machine that would have been able to keep him there even if not for WWII.
It is simple. When things become outdated it can be changed, but only by great effort.
The alternative is to have to tear it up and start over like many parts of the world. US Constitution is world's oldest. I asked a guy giving a lecture what was second oldest and he admitted he had no clue most constitutions do not last a generation.
Quote: Gabes22With the court ruling this as a tax, does this mean that "No American making less than 250K will get a tax increase" is Obama's "No new taxes" moment?
With the lamestream media we have? Give me a break. MSNBC just got caught doctoring a tape of Romney to make it look like he didn't know how to order a sandwich. You will see fair and balanced coverage of that on FNC, the others will have segments calling the Tea Party "racist" for being against Obamacare.
just said a collective 'Oh shit.'
Now the election is all about Obamacare and the the economy.
Obama was all geared up to run against the boogyman, the
wascally Supreme Court. Now thats out the window, he's stuck
for the next 4 months defending this crappy health care plan
to a country that doesn't want it.
Uh oh...
Quote: slytherI am really surprised by the decision, as I thought the individual mandate would be thrown out easily. I plan to read the opinion. I would think this will help fire up the right for November.
Don't waste your time. Read the dissent instead.
Quote: EvenBobBest thing that could have happened. Obama and his minions
just said a collective 'Oh shit.'
Now the election is all about Obamacare and the the economy.
Obama was all geared up to run against the boogyman, the
wascally Supreme Court. Now thats out the window, he's stuck
for the next 4 months defending this crappy health care plan
to a country that doesn't want it.
Uh oh...
You think? The right was already 100% fired up. all this does is also fire up the left. Repeal goes out the window if the GOP can't flip the senate...
Quote: rdw4potusYou think? The right was already 100% fired up. .
Not like they are now. Especially when they start realizing
that the more money you make the more you have to pay
for the same crappy care everybody else will get. You ain't
SEEN fired up yet.
Well, there's time to correct this error before we're forced to write America's obituary.
On the other hand, this looks like a good time to invest in hospitals in Mexican border cities. Also in places like Cancun and Cabo.
IMO, this only HELPS Romney. Its a great day to be conservative, trust me.
The best thing that could of happened to the libs today is that it would be struck down. Lets see if this BS is still around in 2013.
Ken
I think that the presidential election will be seen as a referendum on Obamacare. If Obama wins it will be the law of the land with the needed teeth to enforce it. It will be hilarious watching every few months the shenanigans of raising the debt ceiling votes......
Quote: AZDuffmanUS Constitution is world's oldest. I asked a guy giving a lecture what was second oldest and he admitted he had no clue most constitutions do not last a generation.
Actually, second oldest is the US Constitution. The oldest one is of the Republic of San Marino. It dates back to 1600.
Quote: weaselmanActually, second oldest is the US Constitution. The oldest one is of the Republic of San Marino. It dates back to 1600.
I would have to check that out before I can comment. And check with the guy who gave the seminar. Just to ask, has San Marino's constitution been in continuous force or might it have been suspended for some amount of time? Kind of curious.
No, I wouldn't have known without looking it up...
for this abomination. Anybody remember how careful
Obama was in 2009 NOT to call this a tax? People
hate taxes, they hate them with a passion.
Remember what sunk Bush Sr's boat in 1990? He
promised no new taxes and then raised taxes. Obama
said no no no, this isn't a tax. And now it is. Thats
all people need to hear.
Quote: SOOPOOI think this is when we need the requisite Pacomartin Senate map. How likely is it that the Senate flips to Republican, or 50-50 with a Romney win?
I think that the presidential election will be seen as a referendum on Obamacare. If Obama wins it will be the law of the land with the needed teeth to enforce it. It will be hilarious watching every few months the shenanigans of raising the debt ceiling votes......
Dick Morris has been talking it for some time. Democrats are defending 2Xs as many seats, an unusual thing Dems have more retirements in red areas than GOP has in blue, Snowe being pretty much the only one of the later. SCOTUS just added to the GOP "energy" surplus, Tea Party will get more public again having shifted from rallies to more running-and-boosting good candidates.
Obama will pull his "Animal Farm" act of saying, "Jones will come back and take your healthcare!" but he is defending a very unpopular law. It is too late to flip opinion, and the base there is smaller than the base against.
What also did happen is we will have a nationalized, palimentalized, election with it being all on party lines. Personality is not going to matter nearly as much.
New jobless claims are headed back near the 400K magic-level, and another revision up from last week this week. (If you do that 63 of 64 weeks in a row is it time the stat guy gets fired?) Look for the job number to fall in coming months. This all bodes against dems.
What will be behind the massive Dem loss in 2012? Take a guess.
Today was a good day. I couldn't be happier. Somebody in the press
just said 'the sleeping giant has just woke up again.' And thats never
a good thing for an incumbent.
Quote: EvenBobThe Court just raised everybodies income tax to pay
for this abomination. Anybody remember how careful
Obama was in 2009 NOT to call this a tax? People
hate taxes, they hate them with a passion.
Remember what sunk Bush Sr's boat in 1990? He
promised no new taxes and then raised taxes. Obama
said no no no, this isn't a tax. And now it is. Thats
all people need to hear.
What looks like a victory for them is quite the opposite. Odd as it sounds, this is a great day.
Ken
Quote: EvenBobWhat was behind the massive Dem loss in 2010? Obamacare and the economy.
What will be behind the massive Dem loss in 2012? Take a guess.
Today was a good day. I couldn't be happier. Somebody in the press
just said 'the sleeping giant has just woke up again.' And thats never
a good thing for an incumbent.
Perhaps Mitt Romney was granted one wish and said, "may the wishes of my enemy come true!"
That's what Sarah Palin thinks and we all know that she's a Super Genius.Quote: FinsRuleSo income taxes were raised today?
Edit: I refudiate that remark!!
Quote: SOOPOOI think this is when we need the requisite Pacomartin Senate map. How likely is it that the Senate flips to Republican, or 50-50 with a Romney win?
I think that the presidential election will be seen as a referendum on Obamacare. If Obama wins it will be the law of the land with the needed teeth to enforce it. It will be hilarious watching every few months the shenanigans of raising the debt ceiling votes......
it's about 55% to stay in the dems hands, 45% to flip. Depends a lot on who Angus King will caucus with.
