mrjjj
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June 14th, 2012 at 8:15:00 PM permalink
I might be in the minority on this and thats cool, I dont care.

I dont like pitbulls and rottweilers to have private owners, there, I said it. I know the argument already....its all in the way they are trained etc.

There are TOO MANY cases of attacks and even deaths from these animals. Yes, I'm sure people will post pics of one of these killers posing with their 10 month old child....thats nice. These two breeds are too damn wild, sorry.

Ken
Toes14
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June 14th, 2012 at 9:01:08 PM permalink
How does a dog not have a private owner? (Unless it's a firehouse dog.) Could you elaborate on that?

I can't speak to rottweilers, but we have a 1 year old pit bull who's biggest danger is her tail knocking things off the coffee table because she won't stop wagging it. I do get your point about there being too many attacks, however part of that is due to a media bias. Stories of pit bull attacks always get lead spots or front page headlines while stories of attacks by German shepherds, chow-chows, huskies and boxers are buried farther back in the paper or broadcast.

The American Veterinary Medical Association's 2012 temperment test provides the following grades for these breeds:
Labrador Retriever 92.3%
Irish Wolfhound 89.8%
Husky 86.6%
**Staffordshire Bull Terrier 85.3%
Golden Retriever 85.2%
**American Pit Bull Terrier 84.3%
Boxer 84.3%
Mastiff 83.9%
German Shepherd 83.5%
**American Staffordshire Terrier 83.4%
Rottweiler 82.6%
Dalmation 81.8%
Australian Shepherd 81.7%
Great Dane 80.0%
Border Collie 79.6%
Shih Tzu 76.2%
Chow Chow 71.4%
Standard Schnauzer 69.7%
Chihuahua 68.3%

Part of the problem is the thug mentality a small minority of pit bull owners have. Pit bulls are one of the dogs of choice for gang members, who generally make crappy dog owners to start with. The gang bangers train the dogs to fight and be ultra agressive, thus playing into the media's bias, the general hysteria, and bad stereotype of the breed. However, if you went to 100 homes that have pitties as pets, you'd see that the vast majority of them are perfectly fine animals who love people and are excellent pets & family members. It's unfortunate that gang members didn't decide they'd rather have chihuahua's or poodles as their dogs instead of pit bulls.

Just my $0.02 . . .
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
mrjjj
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June 14th, 2012 at 9:12:26 PM permalink
I appreciate your view, thank you.

Ken
FleaStiff
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June 14th, 2012 at 10:56:51 PM permalink
A dog that does damage gets in the newspapers.

A dog of the same breed that escapes its home, wags its tail. licks children, entertains everyone with its friendly manner ... doesn't make the newspapers.

Then you read the papers and make a decision based on a few of the gang banger anecdotes.
EvenBob
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June 15th, 2012 at 12:18:42 AM permalink
The biggest danger a pitbull or rottweiler poses isn't to you,
but to your pet. I've had to defend attacks several times
from these breeds because I was walking my little dog and he
was visciously attacked. I hate those breeds, they're unpredictable.
Radio talk show host Michael Savage had his little dog
killed right in front of him by a pitbull on a city street. The big
dog broke his neck. It was years ago and Savage still hasn't
gotten over it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
dwheatley
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June 15th, 2012 at 6:36:35 AM permalink
There is a standing pitbull ban in Ontario. The Toronto Humane Society says it has had no effect on the number of reported dog bites in the province, and generally oppose any breed-specific legislation.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
FinsRule
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June 15th, 2012 at 6:41:41 AM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

I might be in the minority on this and thats cool, I dont care.

I dont like pitbulls and rottweilers to have private owners, there, I said it. I know the argument already....its all in the way they are trained etc.

There are TOO MANY cases of attacks and even deaths from these animals. Yes, I'm sure people will post pics of one of these killers posing with their 10 month old child....thats nice. These two breeds are too damn wild, sorry.

Ken



Weird, I have a 10 month old and a rottweiler (rott/shep mix). I'm not going to post a pic of them though.
kenarman
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June 15th, 2012 at 7:11:44 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The biggest danger a pitbull or rottweiler poses isn't to you,
but to your pet. I've had to defend attacks several times
from these breeds because I was walking my little dog and he
was visciously attacked. I hate those breeds, they're unpredictable.
Radio talk show host Michael Savage had his little dog
killed right in front of him by a pitbull on a city street. The big
dog broke his neck. It was years ago and Savage still hasn't
gotten over it.



I am not in favor of breed bans but (I can't believe I am saying this he he) I agree with you Bob. I walk my little pomerian cross 3 times a day and have had several scary situations with other large dogs attacking her. I probably have had as many attacks by other smaller dogs but I don't need to fear for her life in those situations.

The worst was a rotty that was actually in his house with his owner washing his car outside. I was walking by with my little dog on leash and the rotty launched himself out a window 6 ft above grade, landed on the run and was on us in seconds. I tried to pull my dog in on her leash and pick her up but didn't have time and ended up swinging her away on the end of the leash in circles trying to keep her from the rotty. The rotty's owner was there 15 seconds later and took another 30 seconds before he could get the dog under control.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
hook3670
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June 15th, 2012 at 8:31:29 AM permalink
People who want to ban a certain breed have never owned one or interacted with one. I grew up with a pitbull from when I was 4 and I have a pitbull now and a 35 pound mixed terrier. The terrier is the one who has attacked and bitten people and needs a muzzle. The pitbull is scared of his own shadow. Whne walking him if he hears a car door slam he hides behind me. On my block alone, and yes I live in a nice are, there are 6 pit bulls and not one in the last 10 years has had a problem. So ignorance of the breed fuels this issue. In the 70's dobermans were supposed to be the "killer" breed.
EvenBob
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June 15th, 2012 at 9:58:48 AM permalink
Quote: kenarman

I tried to pull my dog in on her leash and pick her up .



Thats what you have to do, pick your dog up. They
say once you have the dog in your arms, the attacking
dog can no longer see it, they just see you. Turn your
back, and just keep turning your back to the big dog.

Run this scenerio thru your mind a hundred times
till it becomes automatic. Sometimes you only have
seconds to act and you can't take time to think.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
CrystalMath
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:09:11 AM permalink
Quote: hook3670

People who want to ban a certain breed have never owned one or interacted with one. I grew up with a pitbull from when I was 4 and I have a pitbull now and a 35 pound mixed terrier. The terrier is the one who has attacked and bitten people and needs a muzzle. The pitbull is scared of his own shadow. Whne walking him if he hears a car door slam he hides behind me. On my block alone, and yes I live in a nice are, there are 6 pit bulls and not one in the last 10 years has had a problem. So ignorance of the breed fuels this issue. In the 70's dobermans were supposed to be the "killer" breed.



I respectfully, and pationately, disagree.

I know a veterinarian who owned a pit. He was the most trusted pet in the family until he snapped and took one bite from the vet's child. Fortunately, the dog missed killing the child by a fraction of an inch. The dog was put down the next day, even before child protective services visited.

My mom managed a humane society that was ordered to house 6 puppy pits during a court trial. These guys were just born, but had to be separated because they would naturally fight until bloody.

These dogs are not predictable and are dangerous. They don't need I be trained to be mean; they need to be trained to be nice.

I think that people who trust these dogs haven't been around enough of them.
I heart Crystal Math.
hook3670
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:14:16 AM permalink
You are wrong on this. How about the dachsund that chewed through the playpen and killed a baby? Golden Retrievers have a much higher incidence of reported bites and attacks than pitbulls. Pitbulls are wonderfull around and with children and a great family dog. I grew up with one and have one now and know of dozens of others. There is no such thing as naturally born to fight just like guns do not shoot bullets on their own.
rdw4potus
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:23:19 AM permalink
Quote: hook3670

There is no such thing as naturally born to fight just like guns do not shoot bullets on their own.



I'm not sure that I agree, but let's say your analogy is valid. Would you rather be shot with a .177cal pellet or with a .44mag hollow point round?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
CrystalMath
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:31:07 AM permalink
Teen drivers are more dangerous than adult drivers. This doesn't mean that all teen drivers are bad and it doesn't mean that all adult drivers are good.

All breeds of dogs bite. Some of those breeds have the muscles and the capability to kill easily. And why is it so far fetched to think that a breed is born to kill? Lion's are born to kill, but they have the gift of size and muscle to make them dangerous too. If they were as small as my cat, they would still be killers, but they would kill rabbits and mice instead of zebras and antelope. Lions can be trained to be nice, but they can snap just like a pit bull; just look at Sigfreid and Roy. If I met the nicest lion on the planet, I would still never trust one.
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EvenBob
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:50:14 AM permalink
These two breeds seem to have a thing for attacking small
dogs. The last dog I had was a big gentle dope and the
rott's and pit's never bothered him. But they see my little
white Bichon and come running. I carry a gun and have no
qualms about shooting one if I have to if it will save my
dogs life.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Nareed
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:50:40 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

All breeds of dogs bite. Some of those breeds have the muscles and the capability to kill easily.



One problem with such breeds is that they can kill by accident, too.

Another problem is that an agressive dog in those breeds is dangerous. Be it by nature or by training. You'll notice guard dogs are trained to be agressive, but also not to kill.

Quote:

And why is it so far fetched to think that a breed is born to kill?



Dogs are meat-eating predators. They all know how to kill prey. I had a very small dog, and she would try ti "kill" her stuffed animals all the time. From time to time she'd try to hunt birds on the back yard, or rats if she sniffed one.

Quote:

If I met the nicest lion on the planet, I would still never trust one.



Lions and other big cats are not domesticated. Lion and tiger cubs are safe enough to be around, but adults are a different matter. Some species, lions in particular, are territorial and agressive as well. So even a lion with a full belly cannot be trusted not to attack a much weaker human if he feels like it.

Frankly, I wouldn't trust an alley cat, either. He won't kill you, but cats can cause a lot of hurt if you elt them, even if they are domseticated. I'd trust a large stray dog a lot more.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
hook3670
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:55:34 AM permalink
Look any big breed can be taught to kill. Pitbulls are one of the most intelligent species in the dog world. If pitbulls are so predisposed to attack then why are other breeds higher on the list of reported dog bites and attacks? My 35 pound terrier kills my pitbull rountinely. My terrier is the one that has attacked people and other dogs and needs a muzzle, not my pitbull. His tail wags 90% of the time and he scares himslef half of it. I was 4 when my family, who had no idea of a pitbull from a poodle, got my first one and he was as good a family dog with me growing up and my grandmother as you can have. He had many other dog friends that he never attacked.
WongBo
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June 15th, 2012 at 11:55:50 AM permalink
just because dog is man's best friend,
does not necessarily mean that man is dog's best friend...

In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
CrystalMath
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June 15th, 2012 at 12:22:54 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

Look any big breed can be taught to kill. Pitbulls are one of the most intelligent species in the dog world. If pitbulls are so predisposed to attack then why are other breeds higher on the list of reported dog bites and attacks? My 35 pound terrier kills my pitbull rountinely. My terrier is the one that has attacked people and other dogs and needs a muzzle, not my pitbull. His tail wags 90% of the time and he scares himslef half of it. I was 4 when my family, who had no idea of a pitbull from a poodle, got my first one and he was as good a family dog with me growing up and my grandmother as you can have. He had many other dog friends that he never attacked.



Please provide statistics. I am willing to read any credible information you have on the subject. The biggest problem I've found with the statistics is that it doesn't mention how large the population is for each breed.

If we look at car theft statistics, we can see that Hondas are stolen far more often than Ferarris. Doesn't mean much, does it?
I heart Crystal Math.
hook3670
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June 15th, 2012 at 12:49:02 PM permalink
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pit-bulls-dangerous-120515.html This is a story from the discovery news orginization. Its mostly about the owners, just like gun owners. Just because you own a gun, doesnt mean you will kill someone.
hook3670
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June 15th, 2012 at 12:50:19 PM permalink
http://mabbr.org/pit-bull-ownership/the-truth-about-pit-bulls/ Here is another article and study.
CrystalMath
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June 15th, 2012 at 1:28:55 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

http://mabbr.org/pit-bull-ownership/the-truth-about-pit-bulls/ Here is another article and study.



Quote: mabbr.org


Myth: Pit Bulls or Pit Bull type dogs are inherently vicious.

Fact: No more vicious than Golden Retrievers, Beagles, or other popular “family” dogs. In a recent testing done by The American Canine Temperament Testing Society (ATT), pit bulls achieved a passing rate of 83.9%, passing 4th from the highest of 122 breeds. That’s better than Beagles, passing at 78.2 and Golden Retrievers passing at 83.2%. The average passing rate for ALL breeds is 77%.



ATTS dog statistics
According to this website, there are many breeds that score higher than Pit Bulls. I agree, though, that the sample size makes some of the data irrelevant. Also, this is not a random sample of dogs - it is a sample of dogs from the most responsible of owners. It does show that an owner can train a Pit Bull to have a temperament as good as Golden Retrievers.

Quote: mabbr.org


800,000 registered German Shepperds
960,000 registered Rottweilers
5 MILLION registered Pit Bulls



According to the AKC, this is BS. Labrador Retreivers are #1, German Shepperds are #2, Rottweilers are #8, and Pit Bulls are ???.AKC dog registration ranking

Mabbr.org wants me to believe there are 12 pit bulls for every German Shepperd? Their stats don't even remotely match the AKC.
I heart Crystal Math.
Face
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June 15th, 2012 at 2:03:41 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

It does show that an owner can train a Pit Bull to have a temperament as good as Golden Retrievers.



I tend to believe more along these lines. I know a pit that's a big, trundling dope of a lovebug. I also know a dog like EvenBob's that's bit me more than once and I'm always ready to kick it to the moon, in case it ever wants another go. All dogs, even wolf mixes, can be lovable, just as they can be miserable bite monsters. When dealing with any dog, it's a lot like...
Quote: rdw4potus

Would you rather be shot with a .177cal pellet or with a .44mag hollow point round?

If the owners are responsible, hopefully you won't get shot at all, but if you do...

Me? I'm like EvenBob. 150lb Irish Wolfhound or 15lb ankle biter, if it comes at my son, it's getting the Glock.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Nareed
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June 15th, 2012 at 2:15:31 PM permalink
Dogs vary in personality and temper, too.

I had a toy poodle once who was very agressive. And I mean very. She was pretty affectionate and docile most of the time, but if you did something she didn't like, she'd growl without hesitation. If you kept doing it, she would attack.

We used to have an old TV with an ultrasonic remote. One time I was watching two football games at once, so I kept switching channels. The dog was lying nearby at the top of the stairs, her usual spot. Eventually both games reached a crucial point at once, so the channel switching became frantic. The dog leaped up, grabbed the remote in her jaws and ran down the stairs wiht it. When I caught up to her, she was trying to bury it in the backyard :)

I loved her and I miss her. But if she'd been a large breed, she would have been dangerous to keep around.
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ewjones080
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June 15th, 2012 at 2:34:02 PM permalink
Once I went with a friend to his friend's house. He had a Doberman, and she simply, didn't, like, me. She was barking at me, staring at me, felt like she was ready to pounce at any moment. The both of us were on edge the whole time. The dogs owner was a good owner and tried to calm her down.


Then once I was walking to a friends house and a guy had his pitbull in the yard. HE said "Sick em, Sick em, ss, ss!" Yeah, a huge a**hole. But the dog didn't do anything. The dog didn't seem bothered by me at all. And I just went on my way.

So good owner, with a potentially dangerous dog. And bad owner with potentially very mellow dog.
mrjjj
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June 15th, 2012 at 3:57:56 PM permalink
So let me ask this......if a German Shepherd had mauled a young kid, are people saying it would not make the news because its not a pitbull or rottweiler?

Thats a load of BS.

Ken
Nareed
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June 15th, 2012 at 4:08:36 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

Once I went with a friend to his friend's house. He had a Doberman, and she simply, didn't, like, me. She was barking at me, staring at me, felt like she was ready to pounce at any moment. The both of us were on edge the whole time. The dogs owner was a good owner and tried to calm her down.



It's a bit of a msytery what sets off some dogs. The last one I had, and to this day I've no idea what breed she was, would bark frantically at some strangers, but wag her tail at others. She had no awareness of her small size, either.

An acquantaince has a pair of mongrels. One is friendly, the other is scared of everyone he dones't know. When I visit he barks up a strom, but only from the next room. He's cute, actually. he runs, barks, runs away, barks some more, and so on until he gets tired.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
mrjjj
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June 16th, 2012 at 9:43:26 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

So let me ask this......if a German Shepherd had mauled a young kid, are people saying it would not make the news because its not a pitbull or rottweiler?

Thats a load of BS.

Ken



?????
mrjjj
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June 17th, 2012 at 3:36:51 PM permalink
......and yet again (http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/Officers-shoot-kill-pit-bull-after-attack/-/10148890/15134702/-/kctfhsz/-/index.html)


Just to be clear, this incident happened AFTER the thread was started.

Ken
duffytootx
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June 17th, 2012 at 4:13:32 PM permalink
Several large metropolitan areas have banned the owning of pitbulls. Here in our small city, when I was the director of the local Humane Society, we would not accept Pitbulls. We did, of course, have many young Pitbull puppies dumped at our facility. In these cases, we raised them, gave them their vaccinations and had them spayed or nuetered. They were adopted out but always with caution. We were a no kill facility so unless the animal was sick beyond healing or vicious and likely to bite, we kept it and did our best to find it a home.
However, I do not recommend owning a pitbull. Granted there are many nice ones out there but too many are owned by hispanics and/or blacks that intentionally want them to be bad and scary. Not the dogs fault, but they accept this role easier than many breeds.
There are far too many attacks on young toddlers and older people. While other breeds bite as often, they rarely kill or do permanent damage. Not so with Pitbulls.
Rottweilers, like Doberman Pinschers, have been given a somewhat unfair reputation because of their size and bad roles in movies. They too can be quite nasty when owners want them to be scary.
mrjjj
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June 17th, 2012 at 4:20:29 PM permalink
How come I cant own a tiger? I promise I'll train it right, give it lots of love etc.
After all, "its all in the way its brought up". Right?




Ken
FinsRule
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June 17th, 2012 at 5:17:24 PM permalink
I don't mind if you own a tiger. Good luck.
WongBo
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June 18th, 2012 at 7:51:42 PM permalink
delete
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
buzzpaff
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June 18th, 2012 at 9:20:10 PM permalink
I have this fantasy about a COUGAR owning me !
rdw4potus
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June 18th, 2012 at 9:29:31 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

I have this fantasy about a COUGAR owning me !



Is that age difference always a relative thing? If Buzz is 100 years old, is Buzz's cougar like 120? :-P
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
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