Betting the Entire Bankroll

I always come to the craps table with a very modest bankroll. I have no expectations of winning big and just enjoy playing the game. When the smoke clears I occasionally finish up a bit, usually am down a bit, and sometimes the bankroll is totally gone. I don't think I have ever doubled my bankroll.

From time to time I get the urge to just walk up and plop down the entire bankroll on the pass line when I first arrive at the table. My thoughts being I'll either double my money (for once) and walk, or lose the whole thing (won't be the first time). I would of course be giving up my primary enjoyment which is playing the game, but it would be a nice (and unfamiliar) feeling to leave the table with significantly more money than when I arrived. "Significantly more money" being relative, since we're not talking about huge dollars to start with.

However, I always chicken out and can't bring myself to bet it all at once.

Has anyone here ever just walked up and bet it all (in craps, blackjack, roulette, etc.)? If so, did you win or lose?

Quote: blount2000

I always come to the craps table with a very modest bankroll. I have no expectations of winning big and just enjoy playing the game. When the smoke clears I occasionally finish up a bit, usually am down a bit, and sometimes the bankroll is totally gone. I don't think I have ever doubled my bankroll.

From time to time I get the urge to just walk up and plop down the entire bankroll on the pass line when I first arrive at the table. My thoughts being I'll either double my money (for once) and walk, or lose the whole thing (won't be the first time). I would of course be giving up my primary enjoyment which is playing the game, but it would be a nice (and unfamiliar) feeling to leave the table with significantly more money than when I arrived. "Significantly more money" being relative, since we're not talking about huge dollars to start with.

However, I always chicken out and can't bring myself to bet it all at once.

Has anyone here ever just walked up and bet it all (in craps, blackjack, roulette, etc.)? If so, did you win or lose?

Well, if a point is established, rather than a 7/11 front-line-winner, then you may aswell consider it a LOST bet...however you DO have an advantage to WIN the best instantly, rather than LOSE it (although a PUSH on the come-out is what happens most time; ie: goes to a point number)

Ask yourself this question: Why do you chicken out?

Is it simply a matter of no balls? Or is it more that you'd hate to have gone thru the trouble of getting to the casino, only to leave two minutes later.


Personally, I've never been tempted to do it.

When I go, I am prepared to lose every dime I have on me. Usually, I leave down, but not broke.

But it's never within the first 5 minutes of when I show up. I get entertainment value out of it. Maybe not FULL value, but I do get value.


On the flip side, not every time, but I HAVE made a big bet right before leaving. I've done this both after winning and losing sessions.

But I only do that at Roulette at one of the 1:1 bets. And that's because I don't normally play Roulette - I don't want to risk being sucked in and continue playing should the bet win.

Quote: blount2000

I always come to the craps table with a very modest bankroll. I have no expectations of winning big and just enjoy playing the game. When the smoke clears I occasionally finish up a bit, usually am down a bit, and sometimes the bankroll is totally gone. I don't think I have ever doubled my bankroll.

From time to time I get the urge to just walk up and plop down the entire bankroll on the pass line when I first arrive at the table. My thoughts being I'll either double my money (for once) and walk, or lose the whole thing (won't be the first time). I would of course be giving up my primary enjoyment which is playing the game, but it would be a nice (and unfamiliar) feeling to leave the table with significantly more money than when I arrived. "Significantly more money" being relative, since we're not talking about huge dollars to start with.

However, I always chicken out and can't bring myself to bet it all at once.

Has anyone here ever just walked up and bet it all (in craps, blackjack, roulette, etc.)? If so, did you win or lose?

I have never put the whole session on the first roll. Mainly because I play for the enjoyment, so stretching my time at the table is important, (not as important as winning, but important enough to keep me from risking the next three hours sitting on the sidelines, on a 1.4% negative EV.)

I am a bit surprised that you have never doubled. Have you been playing for a short time? If you are staying away from the sucker bets in the middle, there is a good chance that you will double since the edge is so low. Perhaps you need to get more aggressive when numbers are repeating?? What is your typical pattern of bets?

I can tell you I don't have the balls to do it ;-)

I have been playing for a little while, but not very often. I typically buy in for $100 to $150, and then pretty much just play the pass line. I will occasionally break the Wizard's rule and bet $1 on a "crap check", especially after losing a time or two when craps is rolled (I know, barn door after the horse is already out).

For some reason it seems like whenever I start to get a little "fancier" with my bets and get more of my bankroll involved (adding odds, placing a number, etc.), a seven-out appears. I suppose I just need to start with a bigger bankroll so I can have some flexibility and be able to handle the losing streaks a bit better.

As far as why I chicken out on betting the whole bankroll, I just haven't found the balls to do it. Yet.

Maybe that should be the next Spanish Word (phrase) of the Day: No Cajones.

;)

I'm sure you do, its just spending the rest of the day boozing gets boring and its no good longing for action if you've blown your entire bankroll in one bet. Its nice if you win it but it sure makes waiting around for your flight home a memorable experience. Any math guy will tell you it is the optimal thing to do from a solely mathematical point of view. That house edge grinds away on every bet so if you make just one bet that is theoretically optimal.

Its just a theoretically optimal One-Bet trip leaves you with lots of free time on your hands .... usually.

Quote: blount2000

Maybe that should be the next Spanish Word (phrase) of the Day: No Cajones.

No drawers? I fail to see the relevance, sorry.

Quote: Nareed

No drawers? I fail to see the relevance, sorry.

Oops. Maybe it would have qualified for the misspelled Spanish word of the day? :)

How about: No cojones in my cajones?

Sounds like maybe you need a larger bank roll to ride out the lows. We try to play with a small roll sometimes and more often than not a bad streak will wipe us out and then ten minutes after we leave the table, everyone is whooping it up over a great roll. If you do want a chance at a bigger win try a full parlay on your craps bet or eleven. You will be surprised how often they roll back to back. Still a bad bet but a fun one.

Quote: wrongway

We try to play with a small roll sometimes and more often than not a bad streak will wipe us out...

Have you found a good "minimum" bankroll size that works out well for riding out the lows? Just wondering how much higher I may need to go.

I think its a matter of your individual bet size and the number of hours you intend to play.

If you play Basic Strategy only and don't tip the dealers or the waitress then you need 100.00 at a five dollar table for one hour of play at a ten percent chance of risk of ruin. If you want four hours of play at a ten percent chance of risk of ruin, you need 300.00 dollars as a buy in. This is for only one passline bet not come bets as well.

Ten percent risk of ruin means that 90 percent of all sessions will avoid having normal variance wipe you out.

There are charts at Easy.Vegas on this but I do not know how to adjust them for making multiple come bets as well as a passline bet or how to adjust them for taking 2x or 5x odds as well as the occasional tip bets.

10 times your average bet works for me, but figure that as a minimum. Personally, I have gotten to the point I don't like to go broke at the table; perhaps I shouldn't care but it looks bad. Even worse, to go broke, then pull out a $20 to try one more time.

If I go to a casino it is to have a good time, not to make money. For me, even doubling my money then sitting around doing nothing for the length of my stay is not a good time. Sitting for many hours either ending up with a loss or a win, with 'bad beats' to remember, the time my q high pai gow beat the dealer's j high, the time I got a full house with a pair, etc... that's why I go. If I want to bet one big lump of money I would bet on a sporting event.

Quote: blount2000

Oops. Maybe it would have qualified for the misspelled Spanish word of the day? :)

You should see some of the doozies we sometimes find at work.

Quote:

How about: No cojones in my cajones?

Well, most people don't keep such body parts in their furniture, so it would be accurate. But then most people would be puzzled as to why anyone would keep their body parts in their furniture, so it would also be ridiculous :P

Quote: wrongway

If you do want a chance at a bigger win try a full parlay on your craps bet or eleven. You will be surprised how often they roll back to back. Still a bad bet but a fun one.

I do that frequently, and it frequently works!
I bet $1/$2 C/E ($1 if it's less than a $5 game; $2 if it's a $5 game)
Parlay $4/$8 or $8/$16 to the Horn
Horn hits and voila.
Hell, just the other night that happened...I rolled for 45 mintues, and in one sequence I rolled: 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 11...I bet C/E for $2 after the 2, parlayed to the horn..$22, $22, $22, $22, $22...all off of $2

Quote: blount2000

Have you found a good "minimum" bankroll size that works out well for riding out the lows? Just wondering how much higher I may need to go.

Of course it depends on how many bets and the table limit but I think at least 20 times your bet for EVERY individual bet including odds. So at a $5 table if you are doing a pass with single odds and a come with single odds you would need $400. Now, you probably won't double that but you should be able to take around $100 to $150 in a win fairly often. And you will also lose $400 every so often.

I'd like to place an order for one of these:

Quote: wrongway

...you should be able to take around $100 to $150 in a win fairly often.

Without one of these:

Quote: wrongway

And you will also lose $400 every so often.

Is it too much to ask to want one without the other? ;)

Quote: blount2000

I always come to the craps table with a very modest bankroll. I have no expectations of winning big and just enjoy playing the game. When the smoke clears I occasionally finish up a bit, usually am down a bit, and sometimes the bankroll is totally gone. I don't think I have ever doubled my bankroll.

From time to time I get the urge to just walk up and plop down the entire bankroll on the pass line when I first arrive at the table. My thoughts being I'll either double my money (for once) and walk, or lose the whole thing (won't be the first time). I would of course be giving up my primary enjoyment which is playing the game, but it would be a nice (and unfamiliar) feeling to leave the table with significantly more money than when I arrived. "Significantly more money" being relative, since we're not talking about huge dollars to start with.

However, I always chicken out and can't bring myself to bet it all at once.

Has anyone here ever just walked up and bet it all (in craps, blackjack, roulette, etc.)? If so, did you win or lose?

Bringing up one of your old threads. I have done this many times, with small bankrolls and little time to play. Most of us want to play Craps almost forever and walk away with some winnings. Not many do. We also know sooner or later that "long roll" will show that makes us a lot of $$$ and we need to be there so we can tell stories to the masses later on.

What you are kind of talking about is what the math mavens call Bold Play
S.N. Ethier, The Doctrine of Chances, Probability and its Applications
"A gambler with a fixed goal is said to use bold play if at each coup he bets
his entire fortune or just enough to achieve his goal in the event of a win,
whichever amount is smaller.
Section 9.1 proves that bold play is optimal
at subfair red-and-black, that is, at games of independent coups in which
each coup is won, and paid even money, with probability p < 1/2 and lost
otherwise."

The odds bet in craps (don't pass) does change the optimal Bold Play method slightly but that needs it's own thread for discussion maybe another day.

Bold play means to bet whatever it takes to hit your win goal on each coup and that will give you the highest probability of success, that is hitting a win goal.
Of course we are not talking about staying at the table for a long time. It should be obvious that this also makes for the shortest time at the table.

So if you want to win say $50 from a $100 buy-in, and you do not fear losing all of your buy-in, bet $50 on the first attempt on the pass line.
If you fail, you have $50 left to do it again.
I can post some results later. It is like 65.8% chance of success using Bold play vs around 60% with odds and I think 58% with no odds.

It can also be seen from this, if you only want to bet $5 and hit a $5 win goal, your first bet would be $5. If lost, next bet $10, if lost next bet $20, if lost next bet $40, if lost you have $25 left, bet it all.
Sounds like a 4step Marty to me.

Enjoy your Craps play how ever you bet.

What I have done, or at least sort of done is make one big bet at the end that impacts the final results for the session. So if I'm playing $20 Pai Gow and I'm down like $80 at the end of 4 hours, maybe make an $80 bet, if it wins, I'm even, if it loses, I still didn't lose all my bankroll, but had a chance to come out even at the end.

So what I would do is save 1/2 your bankroll for the end, and make one big bet at the end. That way you get the enjoyment out of it during the casino trip, and you still get the big thrill you were seeking. And if you can do okay during the trip, the last big bet can make you up a bunch.

If I were going to do one huge bet, I'd rather do the sic-bo small/big bet if that game is available. I'm fully aware that nothing is "due" (i.e., betting big after dealer rolls small), but it's still a better bet (house edge-wise) than the typical double-zero roulette wheel and almost the same as the single-zero wheel. I guess you could do it on blackjack, but most people don't appreciate someone coming in for just one hand.