Poll

16 votes (33.33%)
5 votes (10.41%)
2 votes (4.16%)
25 votes (52.08%)

48 members have voted

clarkacal
clarkacal
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January 24th, 2011 at 11:47:54 AM permalink
Which one of these skills do you think would be the most profitable? Remember to account for availability of games, getting barred, etc. If you can think of a more profitable skill please vote for one listed and then share your ideas in a reply.
rdw4potus
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January 24th, 2011 at 11:52:41 AM permalink
I went with sports handicapping. VP edge is too low, BJ heat is too high. Thought about the poker, but running into one of the 4.99% of players who are better than you could be devastating.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
crazyiam
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January 24th, 2011 at 12:34:11 PM permalink
With only ~10% of all poker players being profitable, being only average of those isn't great. Sports betting seems the best play since you can put down large amounts when you know you have a good bet.
clarkacal
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January 24th, 2011 at 12:57:49 PM permalink
Quote: crazyiam

With only ~10% of all poker players being profitable, being only average of those isn't great. Sports betting seems the best play since you can put down large amounts when you know you have a good bet.



I wish I knew when I had a good bet! A difficult aspect of sports betting is not only do you have to win more than you lose, you have to be ahead of the juice you've paid too.
FleaStiff
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January 24th, 2011 at 1:10:49 PM permalink
so which pays more money and is more reliable?
Card counting blackjack players can be banned and have seek out new casinos.
Poker players can play in cash games or tournaments and can play anywhere so its a useful skill even if the pots are small.
Video poker would make the most but if not banned.
Sports betting is a good skill but requires the capital to make large bets as well.
Yoyomama
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January 24th, 2011 at 1:20:43 PM permalink
Walking away when I am ahead.
JIMMYFOCKER
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January 24th, 2011 at 2:47:36 PM permalink
Much will depend on a players bankroll.
Keyser
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January 24th, 2011 at 2:51:19 PM permalink
What about roulette visual ballistics? It's also called "wheel watcher". It's a skill.

The wheel watchers of the past often times gained edges far in excess of the poker or bj ap players.
Keyser
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January 24th, 2011 at 3:42:12 PM permalink
.....
clarkacal
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January 24th, 2011 at 4:53:07 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

What about roulette visual ballistics? It's also called "wheel watcher". It's a skill.

The wheel watchers of the past often times gained edges far in excess of the poker or bj ap players.



Sounds like a pretty cool skill. As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though.
rxwine
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:03:26 PM permalink
Has the skill for playing live versus non-live poker ever been quantified for players? (tells, reads) Can some poker players smell fear (even if they're not quite sure how they do it)? Forinstance. they show in studies that people react to sweat (or women do at least).
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
JIMMYFOCKER
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:05:28 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

What about roulette visual ballistics? It's also called "wheel watcher". It's a skill.

The wheel watchers of the past often times gained edges far in excess of the poker or bj ap players.




Billy Walters has made millions with this strategy.
rxwine
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:07:03 PM permalink
Actually, that just gave me an idea for a stunt. A poker table where every player is hooked to a polygraph. Probably no one would speak at all, but the machines would still output graphs of physiological changes regardless which all could observe as they play.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
clarkacal
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:10:34 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Actually, that just gave me an idea for a stunt. A poker table where every player is hooked to a polygraph. Probably no one would speak at all, but the machines would still output graphs of physiological changes regardless which all could observe as they play.



What do poker tells have to do with a roulette wheel?
Keyser
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:12:14 PM permalink
Quote: JIMMYFOCKER

Billy Walters has made millions with this strategy.



No Walters didn't. He won on a biased wheel.

VB is not the same thing. Essentially, such players look at the spinning ball in relation to the spinning rotor and attempt to predict the section where the ball will strike the rotor.
scotty81
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:14:37 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

Sounds like a pretty cool skill. As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though.



Yeah, the deflecters are a bitch. It would have been a lot easier if the manufacturers hadn't figured out that those little buggers mess up the whole process.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. - Niels Bohr
rxwine
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:17:09 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

What do poker tells have to do with a roulette wheel?



Beats me? What? :)

I was referring to my post 4 minutes earlier, but someone posted in between.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
JIMMYFOCKER
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:18:47 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

No Walters didn't. He won on a biased wheel.

VB is not the same thing. Essentially, such players look at the spinning ball in relation to the spinning rotor and attempt to predict the section where the ball will strike the rotor.




Gotcha, correct. Thanks for the lesson.
Keyser
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:21:56 PM permalink
The wheel watchers use to enjoy an edge that made counting cards in a single deck bj game look like panhandling for spare change.
JIMMYFOCKER
JIMMYFOCKER
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January 24th, 2011 at 5:24:01 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

The wheel watchers use to enjoy an edge that made counting cards in a single deck bj game look like panhandling.




Interesting

How common is this practice today?
Keyser
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January 24th, 2011 at 6:31:22 PM permalink
Far less common than counting cards and far more difficult.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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January 24th, 2011 at 6:31:37 PM permalink
I like handicapping, but I would say the most valuable skill is knowing when to pick up your stack and get the hell out.
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 7:03:44 PM permalink
Since you didn't specify "bankroll", nor did you say that the playing conditions necessarily had to be available in the real world, I voted VP player w/1k hands/hr. No heat, choose your own hours, play as much or as little as you want. Even a modest $10,000 coin-in/hr yields a nice $50-80/hr return.

This assumes that decent return games are available, of course.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Keyser
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January 25th, 2011 at 1:21:00 PM permalink
Interesting point.
mrjjj
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January 25th, 2011 at 2:40:13 PM permalink
Quote: clarkacal

Sounds like a pretty cool skill. As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though.




"As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though" >>> 100% correct not to mention ball speed and wheel speed. Dont waste your time.

Ken
MarieBicurie
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January 25th, 2011 at 5:24:15 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

"As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though" >>> 100% correct not to mention ball speed and wheel speed. Dont waste your time.

Ken




What you you suggest? Oh right, you make piles of money playing systems. I forgot. Funny how I remember reading about Walters, I also have heard of Kaisan. I haven't ever heard of a system player who beat out casinos in same fashion. Really, what would you suggest?
mrjjj
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January 25th, 2011 at 5:30:17 PM permalink
Quote: MarieBicurie

What you you suggest? Oh right, you make piles of money playing systems. I forgot. Funny how I remember reading about Walters, I also have heard of Kaisan. I haven't ever heard of a system player who beat out casinos in same fashion. Really, what would you suggest?




Its methods, not systems. Please quote correctly. Piles of money? Not sure what you mean by that? Where did I say I ...... 'beat the casinos'? AP (cough) is a myth, sorry.

Ken
scotty81
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January 25th, 2011 at 6:56:35 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

"As soon as the ball hits one of the metal bumps it seems it could go anywhere though" >>> 100% correct not to mention ball speed and wheel speed. Dont waste your time.



Actually, Ken is correct, but not for the reason he thinks. It's not that it can't be done, but rather people don't really have a clue as to the level of fanaticism and outright obsession that it takes to be successful, let alone get to the level where you can take money out of the casinos on a regular basis. Out of 1,000 people that earnestly try, maybe only one will make it.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. - Niels Bohr
mrjjj
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January 25th, 2011 at 7:23:45 PM permalink
Quote: scotty81

Actually, Ken is correct, but not for the reason he thinks. It's not that it can't be done, but rather people don't really have a clue as to the level of fanaticism and outright obsession that it takes to be successful, let alone get to the level where you can take money out of the casinos on a regular basis. Out of 1,000 people that earnestly try, maybe only one will make it.




Not saying you are wrong but here is my issue....The people that cant cut it in ANY form of roulette play, will be the SAME people claiming they ARE that one out of 1,000 you just described. Its a HIDING place to claim it, a safe haven.


Ken
MarieBicurie
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January 25th, 2011 at 7:41:48 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

Not saying you are wrong but here is my issue....The people that cant cut it in ANY form of roulette play, will be the SAME people claiming they ARE that one out of 1,000 you just described. Its a HIDING place to claim it, a safe haven.


Ken



And your proof is where?
thecesspit
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January 25th, 2011 at 9:32:43 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

Its methods, not systems. Please quote correctly. Piles of money? Not sure what you mean by that? Where did I say I ...... 'beat the casinos'? AP (cough) is a myth, sorry.

Ken



It's important for anyone debating this that Ken views AP to mean ONLY play of Roulette via wheel tracking/biased wheels; that a method is not a system; and that unless you have a better method (system) than his your not entitled to debate with him.

Restaurants (or shares in the same) aren't brought entirely with piles of money won playing roulette methods or systems (rated B+ or better), but sometimes they are.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Keyser
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January 25th, 2011 at 10:15:06 PM permalink
According to Ken, he wins, we lose, and we are all jealous of him because he wins more than all of us.

I've noticed the greener the player, the more confident they are that they can win with their system.

Ken is obviously a very green gambler.
Wavy70
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January 25th, 2011 at 11:15:36 PM permalink
Knowing when to walk is the most profitable skill.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
rxwine
rxwine
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January 25th, 2011 at 11:18:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wavy70

Knowing when to walk is the most profitable skill.



If I knew that, they'd be dimming the lights of the casinos and Steve Wynn would be asking me for spare change by now.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Wavy70
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January 25th, 2011 at 11:24:52 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

If I knew that, they'd be dimming the lights of the casinos and Steve Wynn would be asking me for spare change by now.



Shame you must fleece the casino owner not slaughter.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
mrjjj
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:02:21 PM permalink
Quote: MarieBicurie

And your proof is where?



Oh, oh.....'prove it'. lol

Well, I've never been to Japan but I know its there. The guys (not all) that CAN NOT cut it playing roulette, make claims of winning with AP (cough) BUT YET, no proof there......Hmmm......different rules I guess.


Ken
mrjjj
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:05:26 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

According to Ken, he wins, we lose, and we are all jealous of him because he wins more than all of us.

I've noticed the greener the player, the more confident they are that they can win with their system.

Ken is obviously a very green gambler.




I never said you *ALL* lose, please quote correctly. I never said anything regarding *ALL*, being 'jealous', please quote correctly. Its not a system, its a method.

Ken
Keyser
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:08:07 PM permalink
By chance have you taken the roulette quiz? I'm sure that you will score quite high, since you're a system player. (cough)
thecesspit
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:08:19 PM permalink
Yet you can prove Japan exists without visiting it. Odd that.

I've not seen anyone claim to win with Roulette Wheel tracking (which is not all Advantage Play has to offer, because "AP" is not just looking for biased wheels. Yet you'll continue to say AP doesn't exist despite people showing you a map of Japan).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mrjjj
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:09:32 PM permalink
"that unless you have a better method (system) than his your not entitled to debate with him" >>> Not sure what there is to debate? I do 'well' and won't apologize for it. Keyser (also: Herb, Caleb, Snowman & Farnsworth3) has thrown in the towel years ago and now HIDES behind AP (cough). Very convenient considering NOTHING can be proven. ROFL

Ken
TheNightfly
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January 27th, 2011 at 12:44:26 AM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

"that unless you have a better method (system) than his your not entitled to debate with him" >>> Not sure what there is to debate? I do 'well' and won't apologize for it. Keyser (also: Herb, Caleb, Snowman & Farnsworth3) has thrown in the towel years ago and now HIDES behind AP (cough). Very convenient considering NOTHING can be proven. ROFL

Ken


Would you like a Ricola? Halls?
Happiness is underrated
mkl654321
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January 27th, 2011 at 1:38:07 AM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

Would you like a Ricola? Halls?



Or a lobotomy? ("ROFL")
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mrjjj
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January 27th, 2011 at 8:25:59 AM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

Would you like a Ricola? Halls?




Halls, lemon. Thanks bro!

Ken
Ibeatyouraces
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March 1st, 2011 at 10:54:52 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Ayecarumba
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March 1st, 2011 at 11:42:10 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Has the skill for playing live versus non-live poker ever been quantified for players? (tells, reads) Can some poker players smell fear (even if they're not quite sure how they do it)? Forinstance. they show in studies that people react to sweat (or women do at least).



I vaguely recall a poker show where players were hooked up to heart monitors. I haven't seen it in some time though, despite some late night channel surfing.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
FleaStiff
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March 1st, 2011 at 12:33:23 PM permalink
Smell?
Sure, particularly females who are about to ovulate.
So what? Its a subtle response to a subtle clue. And its a skill that is dampened by the now widespread use of birth control pills.

With all the tobacco, french fry and urine odors in a casino do you really think the subtle clues of a poker player are going to be all that profitable.
RussHaley
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March 1st, 2011 at 5:44:10 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Most profitable gambling skill? Hole-carding by far.



Wrong. In fact, many top holecarders left that biz to move on to poker.

The top gambling moneymakers are the horse racing syndicates led by Benter and Zeiljko. They make even Walters look like a piker.
dudestupid
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March 1st, 2011 at 8:11:26 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

The wheel watchers use to enjoy an edge that made counting cards in a single deck bj game look like panhandling for spare change.



Card counting? Roulette ballistics? I vote for panhandling for spare change.
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