Ever have a casino..

Have you ever had a casino load you up with free play offers for a month, then had them pulled halfway through the month not because of catching AP play, but that you weren't contributing any of your own money?

Yeah, that's common at the stingier places.

Quote: rxwine

Have you ever had a casino load you up with free play offers for a month, then had them pulled halfway through the month not because of catching AP play, but that you weren't contributing any of your own money?

It shouldn't happen but I see their side. Casinos don't want to keep giving free play if the Gambler is not putting up any of his or her own money.

Quote: Nathan

It shouldn't happen but I see their side. Casinos don't want to keep giving free play if the Gambler is not putting up any of his or her own money.

Any mailers are based on prior play

I.E. you earned the offers.

Imagine if you earned frequent flier miles enough for 10 flights. You take 4 free flights in a row and then the airline says you havent made any recent purchases so they are confiscating the miles

They tell you to your face you took advantage of them by flying their airline and having the audacity to use free offers that THEIR OWN SOFTWARE says you deserve based upon how they designed THEIR OWN SOFTWARE TO AWARD MILES

I say its pretty scummy

Another example:

You need 5 cereal boxtops to redeem a free gift.

You ask your neighbors if they are throwing out the cereal boxes and acquire the boxtops without purchasing the cereal yourself.

The cereal company has not been cheated of their profit because the cereal WAS purchased by your neighbors

But the cereal company accuses you of fraud and says you can never purchase their cereal again

Casinos do stuff like that ALL the time

Casinos should just write me a check when I show up for 75% of my EV.

Quote: darkoz

Any mailers are based on prior play

I.E. you earned the offers.

Imagine if you earned frequent flier miles enough for 10 flights. You take 4 free flights in a row and then the airline says you havent made any recent purchases so they are confiscating the miles

They tell you to your face you took advantage of them by flying their airline and having the audacity to use free offers that THEIR OWN SOFTWARE says you deserve based upon how they designed THEIR OWN SOFTWARE TO AWARD MILES

I say its pretty scummy

Are they? I've seen fine print that says the offers are based on you giving them your historic level of play and casino has the right to adjust them. It's not that your past play earned you a free night, it's that based on your continued play, they are offering a room.
One is a reward for past play, the other is an incentive to get you to continue coming.

Obviously I’d rather the saloon not revoke offers, but it’s generally within their rights. There are cases where it wouldn’t be — such as a promotion. EG: “Earn 10,000 points on day you sign up and receive $200/week for 4 weeks in FP.” isn’t something they should legally be able to revoke, since that is a reward for past play. But if the offer is just for playing and not attached to a promo, then yeah, they can do whatever the **** they want. Unless there was an agreement made ahead of time?

I sure as hell would be if I ran a casino.

Quote: billryan

Are they? I've seen fine print that says the offers are based on you giving them your historic level of play and casino has the right to adjust them. It's not that your past play earned you a free night, it's that based on your continued play, they are offering a room.
One is a reward for past play, the other is an incentive to get you to continue coming.

I understand the purpose of offers is an incentive to garner business

EVERY free offer from a business is such even free hamburger coupons from Burger King.

Calendar freeplay is even more egregious because as you and the casinos point out it is based on historical play of the account.

The casinos argument therefore is they have more right to deny you offers when its based on prior spending than a business like Burger King which gives without you even doing anything for it.

In order for the argument to pass muster one has to define the word "free"

Anything given for free means the item is being handed over without expectations of remuneration

If you have to "purchase" your "free" play then....?

Also would you consider points and comp dollars earned as being based on expectations of future play? If you did $10,000 of coin-in and showed $100 comp dollars for their stores would you feel that was something that should be denied you?

Fact is casinos routinely shut off the ENTIRE accounts of AP players including earned shopping dollars.

Quote: RS

Obviously I’d rather the saloon not revoke offers, but it’s generally within their rights. There are cases where it wouldn’t be — such as a promotion. EG: “Earn 10,000 points on day you sign up and receive $200/week for 4 weeks in FP.” isn’t something they should legally be able to revoke, since that is a reward for past play. But if the offer is just for playing and not attached to a promo, then yeah, they can do whatever the **** they want. Unless there was an agreement made ahead of time?

I sure as hell would be if I ran a casino.

Promotions are absolutely subject in the casinos opinion to denial of offers.

The Revel offer for rebate comes to mind.

In AC if you take the Greyhound bus they promise $25 freeplay when you arrive as part of the bus offer. If your account has had freeplay offers revoked it is TOTAL. NO OFFERS PERIOD! Arriving by bus you will simply be told the casinos refuses to honor it even though the offer is posted by Greyhound.

Quote: darkoz

The Revel offer for rebate comes to mind.

What comes to mind?


Other than the people who were not playing fairly ,can you tell me who didn't get their losses refunded back in free play? I know a few WINNERS that got banned from the promotion/club and comps taken away (I guess they couldn't lose) while playing the $100 denomination slots. I have no doubt the casino was tipped off that they would get honorably crushed on the $100 slots.


There are people who played the Promo until the end, lost, got paid all losses and even got some fantastic mail on top of that.

Actually being there and playing promotions (not just that one) is much better than what you hear online.

Quote: AxelWolf

What comes to mind?


Other than the people who were not playing fairly ,can you tell me who didn't get their losses refunded back in free play? I know a few WINNERS that got banned from the promotion/club and comps taken away (I guess they couldn't lose) while playing the $100 denomination slots. I have no doubt the casino was tipped off that they would get honorably crushed on the $100 slots.


There are people who played the Promo until the end, lost, got paid all losses and even got some fantastic mail on top of that.

Actually being there and playing promotions (not just that one) is much better than what you hear online.

Maybe if you didn’t call out the people playing ultimate X and then private message them saying they shouldn’t defend themselves, the full story would have been told.

Ultimate X was fully within the rules of the promotion and included people playing every dollar of coin in on a players card.

Even for the people that didn’t play all coin in on a card, that was specifically protected by the published casino rules for the promotion which were given out at the player’s club. They defined loss as the amount of coin in minus coin out with your card inserted with no clause about requiring insertion of the card at all times.

And by the way, go ahead and do the sim on a casino saying that as soon as you win money we tell you to stop but you can lose up to 100,000 without us saying anything. I'm sure that doesn't detract from the EV of the promotion at all and isn't a deceptive practice.

Quote: randomperson

Maybe if you didn’t call out the people playing ultimate X and then private message them saying they shouldn’t defend themselves, the full story would have been told.

Ultimate X was fully within the rules of the promotion and included people playing every dollar of coin in on a players card.

Even for the people that didn’t play all coin in on a card, that was specifically protected by the published casino rules for the promotion which were given out at the player’s club. They defined loss as the amount of coin in minus coin out with your card inserted with no clause about requiring insertion of the card at all times.

Is that what happened lol?

I can see the PM now:

"Listen no one knows about this UX trick

Just you and me

Oh and I think Darkoz

And the Revel, they definitely know

And Biometrica they figured it out too.

BUT NO ONE ELSE. ITS A HUGE SECRET WE CANT AFFORD TO GET OUT"

Quote: darkoz

I understand the purpose of offers is an incentive to garner business

EVERY free offer from a business is such even free hamburger coupons from Burger King.

Calendar freeplay is even more egregious because as you and the casinos point out it is based on historical play of the account.

The casinos argument therefore is they have more right to deny you offers when its based on prior spending than a business like Burger King which gives without you even doing anything for it.

In order for the argument to pass muster one has to define the word "free"

Anything given for free means the item is being handed over without expectations of remuneration

If you have to "purchase" your "free" play then....?

Also would you consider points and comp dollars earned as being based on expectations of future play? If you did $10,000 of coin-in and showed $100 comp dollars for their stores would you feel that was something that should be denied you?

Fact is casinos routinely shut off the ENTIRE accounts of AP players including earned shopping dollars.

It doesn't matter what I think is right. It matters what the casino can and does do.

Quote: billryan

It doesn't matter what I think is right. It matters what the casino can and does do.

Well, yeah some sage words.

But they do some crappy things and reneging on promised offers (handed out because of actions you did in the past) are one of them.

Here is a ACTUAL conversation I heard while on the line to see a promotions person at a casino.

Promotions worker A: "Hey, you plan on stopping at Shoprite after you get off?"

Promotions worker B: "yeah, why?"

Promotions worker A: "I got some specials on my shoppers club card but I get off too late. I'm gonna give you my card and pin to pickup for me."

Promotions worker B: "Sure I got no problem with that"

I really wanted to alert Shoprite security and have these guys pummelled and backroomed for using someone else's Shoprite card lol

Quote: darkoz

Is that what happened lol?

I can see the PM now:

"Listen no one knows about this UX trick

Just you and me

Oh and I think Darkoz

And the Revel, they definitely know

And Biometrica they figured it out too.

BUT NO ONE ELSE. ITS A HUGE SECRET WE CANT AFFORD TO GET OUT"

I would understand this

1. Call everyone out for being bulls in a china shop on the forum.
2. Realize people in the forum aren't going to give up until they figure out the play.
3. Private message the people who did UX and tell them not to talk about the play.

But it also includes

4. Continue to call them out on the forum years after the fact when they respected your wishes not to publicize the play.