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SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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January 12th, 2019 at 7:19:18 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Hey Babs - quick question (excuse my ignorance) -- is the 240 hours calculated based on an 8 hour work day (which would give you 30 days off) or is it calculated on a 24 hour day (which would give you 10 days off)?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.



I'll answer as the gubmint employee that I am..... It is 30 days off, what we would call '6 weeks'. My son, in the private world, has to use it or lose it. His company just changed their rules so he can let one week carry over for a few months.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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January 12th, 2019 at 7:28:34 AM permalink
Most employers allow some carryover. My IT company had "unlimited vacation" meaning that we could rise time off whenever. Of course you had to be productive, overly so.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
aceofspades
aceofspades
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January 12th, 2019 at 7:55:40 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I'll answer as the gubmint employee that I am..... It is 30 days off, what we would call '6 weeks'. My son, in the private world, has to use it or lose it. His company just changed their rules so he can let one week carry over for a few months.



Thanks SOOPOO
billryan
billryan
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January 12th, 2019 at 9:18:43 AM permalink
Authorities in Arizona revealed three tunnels they discovered this month under the border with Mejico. Trump responded by saying his wall just got ten feet higher. And who will pay for it?
Dalex64
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January 12th, 2019 at 9:54:18 AM permalink
A good executive identifies a problem he wants solved, and gives it to experts to come up with one or more potential solutions to the problem.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2019 at 10:10:09 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Hey Babs - quick question (excuse my ignorance) -- is the 240 hours calculated based on an 8 hour work day (which would give you 30 days off) or is it calculated on a 24 hour day (which would give you 10 days off)?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.



It's calculated on an hourly basis, on your work schedule. 8 hours is a standard workday, but some work 9 or 10 on a regular basis. However, a leave day is always charged on an 8 hour basis, so the carry-over is 30 days.if you take a half day off, you're charged 4 hours. The smallest increment they charge is in 10th of an hour, or 6 minutes, but you earn full hours.

There are jobs where you can have a schedule longer than 10 hours, like federal firefighters, but ATC is restricted by DOT mandated rest to 10/day, clock starts at midnight local.

Leave is earned on an hourly basis. For your first 3 years you earn 104 hours Annual, and 104 sick leave per year. After 3 years, you earn 156 annual per year. After 15 years, you earn 208 annual. Sick leave stays at 104, but you can bank it indefinitely.

I've known a couple people who cashed out at retirement with 2000+ hours sick leave and the full 240 annual, but we all hate them, because they work sick and make everybody around them sick. We all share the equipment relieving each other, so you're constantly touching keyboards and consoles, not to mention working really close physically to the next guy.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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January 12th, 2019 at 11:08:23 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

The FAA is above reproach

https://nypost.com/2016/01/03/the-quota-driven-drive-to-make-flying-more-perilous/



There's some truth to that article, some spin, and a lot left out.

Without writing a book on it...

The hiring process that ended in the decertification of the program was deeply flawed. It came down to people purchasing priority and even guaranteed hiring without having the skills or aptitude to be a controller.

We were getting top-rated hires from the feeder schools who were banging aircraft together because their brain didn't work right. It's a unique skill set underlying the book-learning that was missing on many hires.

I wrote my masters thesis on a portion of this, so I could go on for days. But a semi-executive summary is, your mind has to process a variety of abstract and non-linear information in ways different from most other jobs.

You have to see things in 3 dimensions, translated from 2 dimensional tools. Spock Chess used to be a good analogy. More recently, several video games especially RPGs exercise that skill.

You have to project where aircraft will be in 3 minutes, 5, 10, 20, etc. With a constant mental update and revision of real-time data.

The aircraft have to MOVE in your head, each at its own rate, so that you anticipate and spot immediately that your plan has to change. One of the biggest tells that someone is going to kill someone (and needs to be removed before they do) is when they give a control instruction and check that off their list of concerns.

I've had trainees clear someone to land and then move on and forget that person is inbound still: in their head, that airplane already landed and exited the runway. 2 minutes later, they run someone right through him, or put one on the runway in front of a guy 5 seconds from touchdown.

I've had trainees clear someone to an altitude climbing or descending, then think in their head that guy is level instantly at the new altitude and run some one else right through them. I've had trainees turn a guy and think they're instantly on that heading and run someone into them laterally. I could give you a dozen more examples.

Anyway, these skills are mostly present in your brain or they're not. They're very difficult to test for, though they've had decent success with the AT test that's kind of an IQ test, followed by sophisticated simulators for months at the FAA academy, to try and determine if the person can be taught the mechanics, before they're put on live traffic training.

The FAA while running this process, was only hiring 1 in 1000 applicants, and the failure rate at the Academy was 50%. So 1 in 2000 was reaching a facility to begin training. Of those, about 80% were eventually successful in reaching full controller status, which takes from 2 to 5 years depending on the facility. It costs, on average, 1 million dollars to train a single controller, and that was under the old rules and in 1998 dollars.

Congress was looking for a cheaper and faster way to replace controllers. The FAA was also willing to try. So they shoved the basics onto colleges. Also, the huge hiring after the 1981 strike produced a big bubble of retirement -eligible controllers starting in 2001, peaking around 2006, and everyone gone by about now from that generation. (Mandatory retirement at your 56th birthday, had to be 21 to get hired, can retire as early as 50, some even eligible at 46).

That new process started in 2000 or so, dumped all of the filtering in favor of college schools. That was the only way most people could get hired. This was after a multi-year hiring freeze, and staffing was getting critical. We started getting those people in about 2004.

People paid to go to those schools (instead of the FAA paying trainee wages and teaching from zeronkjowledge) and were almost guaranteed hiring on graduation. But the schools were profit-making and had a financial agenda in graduating as many as possible, inflating grades, ignoring clear signs the person was deficient in the critical thinking skills that underlie snap decisions being correct, not just at that moment, but over time and 3 dimensions.

So they were graduating people who could pass tests from books and managing pre-set problems and controlled simulations, without having the actual skills needed to be safe in a random and ever-changing picture.

Instead of failing those people at the level needed, they got sent to facilities directly into.live-traffic training. And most were so bad at it, they failed and lost their jobs. Washout rate at small, easy facilities was around 30%, climbing to 80% or better at the hard ones. The toughest, NY TRACON, Chicago TRACON, were washing out 95% or more.

And the students were the true victims of that system: they spent an average of 100k to get required training for a job they simply couldn't do. They got a worthless degree with only 1 job source, and their brains weren't wired to do that job. But but but they had the diploma. They paid the money.

So this latest iteration attempts to detect the aptitude and the wiring for the job, not just the ability to cite rules, regulations, and separation standards. And the hiring list left over from those who did the schooling got purged, because the certification was found to be invalid.

I think the EEO charges in the article and i general are overwrought, though it's probably true in part that a person of protected status will get bonus points in hiring consideration over someone who's not. That's true throughout the federal government. Veterans also get bonus points. So do pilots for ATC. And there are other factors.

But the process was deeply flawed. The FAA was wasting buckets of money trying to teach and then out processing ridiculous numbers of misidentified new hires, which often takes years. And thank God they put the safety of the flying public and the integrity of the operation above keeping worthless civil servant hires, and stopped that pipeline.

Edit: sorry, it is a book. But I didn't even touch on the aptitude part - the above is about skills.

If you're going to be a controller, you have to have a God complex, in the "God sees every sparrow that falls" sense. These new trainees would make a mistake that revealed their lack of a basic skill, and go, "so what"?

So What?? Burning pieces of aircraft and crispy critters on your runway or your neighbors lawn is So What! A controller who doesn't love the challenge of forming a final like a string of pearls while not running aircraft together is a crappy controller. A controller who doesn't provide the best possible feed or sequence to the next controller is a crappy controller. There is no game-over, try and beat your previous score, working live traffic. PEOPLE DIE. Ask the Sarasota trainee who ran two together at the intersection of their runways what that's like.

The stories I could tell on here would keep all of you from ever flying again. But that's why it's a team sport. That's why we have to multitask, hearing everything around us, not just our little piece. Again, it goes to having just the right frame of mind, where you have absolute confidence, but are constantly checking and revising.

So they're trying to test for that aptitude as well. The colleges didn't. And a lot of people who graduated are trying to re-apply through that aptitude test, and failing that part. Might be a bad test, idk. Might be bad applicants.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Jan 12, 2019
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RS
RS
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RogerKint
January 12th, 2019 at 7:34:04 PM permalink
Is Trump a nationalist or a Russian agent?
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rsactuary
rsactuary
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January 12th, 2019 at 8:46:02 PM permalink
WaPo reporting that Trump went to great lengths to hide the specifics of conversations with Putin. Why would that be????
Mooseton
Mooseton
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RS
January 13th, 2019 at 1:01:22 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

WaPo reporting that Trump went to great lengths to hide the specifics of conversations with Putin. Why would that be????



Because the crazies would run away with whatever was said, obviously.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try

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