Cash investment opportunities?

Hi guys, I am not sure if this is on topic but I guess this is a good place to get answers considering the cash nature of gambling.

I am wondering what you guys do with your cash bankrolls? does it all sit in a safe? Is there a way to invest it without the taxman wondering where it came from?
I am asking because I've hit some good variance recently, but had some bad variance before that I didn't properly document, so if I were to have to report my winnings I am not sure my loss deductions would stick, which would be a huge -EV...
And I am not very comfortable with cash sitting around.
Anyway, what kind of opportunities are out there? I think for example you can buy bitcoin anonymously although it's more complicated than through normal exchanges. Any other recommendations?

You can buy gold, silver, antique firearms, and other proven stores of value.

Be careful not to sink your boat when crossing the lake with it.🤔

Quote: tyler498

Hi guys, I am not sure if this is on topic but I guess this is a good place to get answers considering the cash nature of gambling.

I am wondering what you guys do with your cash bankrolls? does it all sit in a safe? Is there a way to invest it without the taxman wondering where it came from?
I am asking because I've hit some good variance recently, but had some bad variance before that I didn't properly document, so if I were to have to report my winnings I am not sure my loss deductions would stick, which would be a huge -EV...
And I am not very comfortable with cash sitting around.
Anyway, what kind of opportunities are out there? I think for example you can buy bitcoin anonymously although it's more complicated than through normal exchanges. Any other recommendations?

Congrats on your good variance. You need to retrospectively become a UK citizen :o) Our tax authorities don't give a damn about gambling winnings .
But seriously, you guys in the USA seem to generally be 5h1t scared of random audits from the IRS. Our HMRC is so understaffed and underfunded that even those few of us who do need to do self assessment for taxes don't really ever have to worry. I have a business and a business accountant and he said "Just put £600 per annum as telephony charges and HMRC won't question it" Actually we sacked him and claimed the true amount, but my new accountant pretty much confirmed that HMRC would focus their resources on two kinds of target: Those who reclaimed more than they paid, and those who paid no tax and had no visible means of support. Think about it: What costs in for your IRS to chase? So long as what might be deemed a reasonable percentage of my income was being paid as tax, HMRC are not going to chase me. I suspect that even in the USA, that if you have 'a day job' and pay a sensible proportion through withholding, and don't have massive and reportable cash income, then really, don't sweat it. Big brother is watching someone else and just spreads the rumour he's watching you.
Anyway, to have a stab at answering your question:-
Bitcoin is a terribly risky store of value. It may go up and still give rise to tax chargeable profits, or it might plummet with no deductibles. Aren't your US pension funds a good option as a tax shelter? They are in the UK. Don't you guys get a ROTH, which seems an oft overlooked option? I suppose all down to if you can point to a day job and say "That's where I earned it: I'm frugal"
I'm curious. what non-pension tax break do US citizens have? We in the UK can shelter all our salary and up to £20,000 per annum from tax in pensions and ISA's

Quote: tyler498

I am asking because I've hit some good variance recently, but had some bad variance before that I didn't properly document, so if I were to have to report my winnings I am not sure my loss deductions would stick, which would be a huge -EV...

I can't guarantee it but I would presume that the IRS will accept your loss deductions even if they are not fastidiously documented as long as they are reasonable. Just about everybody knows that gamblers often lose. I can't see them having much grounds for challenging a gambler claiming offsetting losses that appear to be within justifiable boundaries.

Quote: OnceDear

Congrats on your good variance. You need to retrospectively become a UK citizen :o) Our tax authorities don't give a damn about gambling winnings .

I have often wondered if that is because Brit Royalty openly plays the horses.

Quote:

I'm curious. what non-pension tax break do US citizens have? We in the UK can shelter all our salary

what?!

Quote:

and up to £20,000 per annum from tax in pensions and ISA's

we have retirement accounts that shelter income in the US, with limits depending on income.

An odd question to say the least.

It depends on whether you work or not. (I don't consider AP a job because it's never guaranteed income, and it's inconsistent at best.)

I work and I also consider myself an AP because I know the casino systems, I know how to game them to the max, and I try to play in the best situations as I can when I can. Simply playing with an edge doesn't cut it with me.

Neither does not being able to figure out what to do with my gaming cash on my own. Do what you feel us best for you. Only you know that answer.

Quote: MaxPen

You can buy gold, silver, antique firearms, and other proven stores of value.

Be careful not to sink your boat when crossing the lake with it.🤔

Monet mentioned guns as an example of things that retain or increase in value. I think you have to have some clue what you are doing though, as with most things.

Speaking of Monet, the prices on Van Gough's, Da Vinci's, etc seem to keep going up and up if you are looking to invest 100 mil or so. I've always said if I was managing a large pool of money, I'd invest in the very top level collectable stuff. A Honus Wagner baseball card, whatever the rarest cars and paintings are, etc. The theory being that the richest people keep getting richer and will keep needing to prove how rich they are by paying ever more for the rarest status symbols.

It's less of a lock, but if you are buying some kind of collectable, I'd say the bigger the better.

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: OnceDear

We in the UK can shelter all our salary

what?!

Yes. Rather amusing conversation point.
We generally pay 20% to 40% income tax ( above a tax free £11500) and up to 13.8% 'national insurance' (tax by another name). No state taxes per se and our healthcare is free. We have some local property based taxes of about £1500 per year for local services, like trash, fire service and generally locally controlled services.

But what we choose to have deducted from salary and paid into our pension fund is pre-tax. So, as a fine example, when I was 51 I was invited to join my company pension scheme where they would match my contribution up to 5% of salary. So I crossed out the default 5% personal contribution and wrote in 85%.

The finance director called me in a few weeks later to apologise for that apparent error on the form. But I confirmed it was all correct.

I paid no income tax that year, nor the two years after that and the money was invested in my chosen pension fund tax free. The other 15% covered NI and left me a residual income of JD pocket money. Because of my spectacularly low take home pay my 'National insurance' charge was actually negligible. Some colleagues who I partly confided in did wonder how I managed to live on about £100 per month, but little did they know.

Now I'm over 55 and I can at any time take 25% of my (significantly grown) pension fund completely tax and NI free. I no longer pay NI and I do not anticipate paying much income tax on my taxable pension, when I do choose to take it. Still have £11,500 allowance on that.

And you guys think you are in the land of the free :o)

OK. I can't buy a gun, but I don't need one and If I get shot, or a dose of something nasty, or cancer, I won't have to worry about the cost of treatment.

Thanks all for the replies!
Horse yes I have a full time job and it pays alright. The good variance was quite good though, so if I deposit it, it won't be explained by my job :D
Oncedear unfortunately I am not a US citizen, no pension fund for me, I don't have most things US citizen get (except taxes!!!)
Also Im not planning on buying bitcoin, I am a gambler but I like to understand the numbers well before I place my bet, and I don't understand those of bitcoin. I just used it as an example of buying, owning something of value anonymously. Stock market doesn't seem to allow anonymity, gold though is a good suggestion!
Thanks again guys

That is sir one of the best AP plays I've read about here! well done

Quote: OnceDear

Yes. Rather amusing conversation point.
We generally pay 20% to 40% income tax ( above a tax free £11500) and up to 13.8% 'national insurance' (tax by another name). No state taxes per se and our healthcare is free. We have some local property based taxes of about £1500 per year for local services, like trash, fire service and generally locally controlled services.

But what we choose to have deducted from salary and paid into our pension fund is pre-tax. So, as a fine example, when I was 51 I was invited to join my company pension scheme where they would match my contribution up to 5% of salary. So I crossed out the default 5% personal contribution and wrote in 85%.

The finance director called me in a few weeks later to apologise for that apparent error on the form. But I confirmed it was all correct.

I paid no income tax that year, nor the two years after that and the money was invested in my chosen pension fund tax free. The other 15% covered NI and left me a residual income of JD pocket money. Because of my spectacularly low take home pay my 'National insurance' charge was actually negligible. Some colleagues who I partly confided in did wonder how I managed to live on about £100 per month, but little did they know.

Now I'm over 55 and I can at any time take 25% of my (significantly grown) pension fund completely tax and NI free. I no longer pay NI and I do not anticipate paying much income tax on my taxable pension, when I do choose to take it. Still have £11,500 allowance on that.

And you guys think you are in the land of the free :o)

OK. I can't buy a gun, but I don't need one and If I get shot, or a dose of something nasty, or cancer, I won't have to worry about the cost of treatment.

Quote: OnceDear

Yes. Rather amusing conversation point.
We generally pay 20% to 40% income tax ( above a tax free £11500) and up to 13.8% 'national insurance' (tax by another name). No state taxes per se and our healthcare is free. We have some local property based taxes of about £1500 per year for local services, like trash, fire service and generally locally controlled services.

But what we choose to have deducted from salary and paid into our pension fund is pre-tax. So, as a fine example, when I was 51 I was invited to join my company pension scheme where they would match my contribution up to 5% of salary. So I crossed out the default 5% personal contribution and wrote in 85%.

The finance director called me in a few weeks later to apologise for that apparent error on the form. But I confirmed it was all correct.

I paid no income tax that year, nor the two years after that and the money was invested in my chosen pension fund tax free. The other 15% covered NI and left me a residual income of JD pocket money. Because of my spectacularly low take home pay my 'National insurance' charge was actually negligible. Some colleagues who I partly confided in did wonder how I managed to live on about £100 per month, but little did they know.

Now I'm over 55 and I can at any time take 25% of my (significantly grown) pension fund completely tax and NI free. I no longer pay NI and I do not anticipate paying much income tax on my taxable pension, when I do choose to take it. Still have £11,500 allowance on that.

And you guys think you are in the land of the free :o)

OK. I can't buy a gun, but I don't need one and If I get shot, or a dose of something nasty, or cancer, I won't have to worry about the cost of treatment.

Boy. Lucky you. We were capped at 10% contributions, with a further hard cap in absolute dollars per year. 5% was matched. The rest taxed. I put some in a Roth once I could, a lot of the rest in silly stuff like paintings, real estate, gems. Hard to get value on the lux items, and the bottom dropped out on real estate, took my equity and then some. Would have loved to be allowed to tuck more away pre-tax.

Lucky me, too, though. I'm not hurting. Just not terribly liquid.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Boy. Lucky you. We were capped at 10% contributions, with a further hard cap in absolute dollars per year. 5% was matched. The rest taxed. I put some in a Roth once I could, a lot of the rest in silly stuff like paintings, real estate, gems. Hard to get value on the lux items, and the bottom dropped out on real estate, took my equity and then some. Would have loved to be allowed to tuck more away pre-tax.

Lucky me, too, though. I'm not hurting. Just not terribly liquid.

Tee Hee and in my pre-age50 employment I was able to buy £150 per month shares in my employer Tax and NI free, so long as I hung on to them for a few years. Plus share options with zero risk and potentially massive profits after 5 years.

Though the UK differs, and I'm sure the US has some good tax free or low tax opportunities, my point is to use what is available and don't fear the random audit.

I note the OP says he is not a US citizen. That raises other questions about his status.

Quote: OnceDear

Yes. Rather amusing conversation point.

I don't get the apparently contradicting indications of entire-or-nearly-entire salary vs £20,000 limit

and quit crowing about your health care system or I will trot out some folks who have bad things to say about it

Quote: OnceDear

Tee Hee and in my pre-age50 employment I was able to buy £150 per month shares in my employer Tax and NI free, so long as I hung on to them for a few years. Plus share options with zero risk and potentially massive profits after 5 years.

Though the UK differs, and I'm sure the US has some good tax free or low tax opportunities, my point is to use what is available and don't fear the random audit.

I note the OP says he is not a US citizen. That raises other questions about his status.

Yes, but still your point is well taken about using AP revenue for daily expenses so that the salary can be invested/saved. I have been doing the opposite, clearly separating my salary=>(rent,food,creditcards) from my gambling BR, thinking it would be a good practice... I will keep the essence of this philosophy but might have to rethink the execution.

Quote: odiousgambit

I don't get the apparently contradicting indications of entire-or-nearly-entire salary vs £20,000 limit

and quit crowing about your health care system or I will trot out some folks who have bad things to say about it

OK. I won't crow about our 'creaking' NHS. It has its flaws, but we Brits generally love it, warts and all.

What contradictions? What £20k limit? We do have a lifetime limit of £1m. I fell safely under that.

I've been doing something very similar for years. Got the idea after examining Mitt Romney's tax return. Defer income and pay capital gains, not income tax on it. Lots of pitfalls so be sure to have an accountant who knows what he is doing.

Quote: OnceDear

What contradictions? What £20k limit? We do have a lifetime limit of £1m. I fell safely under that.

answer:

Quote: OnceDear

We in the UK can shelter all our salary and up to £20,000 per annum from tax in pensions and ISA's

perhaps you meant to say:

Quote: OnceDear

We in the UK can shelter all our salary and up to £20,000 per annum from tax in pensions and ISA's

nonetheless you definitely typed out £20,000. Maybe I am just being dense.

Quote: odiousgambit

answer:
perhaps you meant to say:

Quote: OnceDear

We in the UK can shelter all our salary and up to £20,000 per annum from tax in pensions and ISA's

nonetheless you definitely typed out £20,000. Maybe I am just being dense.

Ahhh. I see where I confused...
Effectively almost all of salary can be diverted free of income tax into a pension PLUS up to 20,000 of other money from whatever source can be put into a tax free 'Individual savings account' to buy shares or sit as cash. That 20,000 would probably come from some previously (nominally) post tax income, but not necessarily. Funds and stocks and shares within the ISA grow free of capital gains taxes and dividend income from shares within the ISA are free of income tax.

Quote: tyler498

Hi guys, I am not sure if this is on topic but I guess this is a good place to get answers considering the cash nature of gambling.

I am wondering what you guys do with your cash bankrolls? does it all sit in a safe? Is there a way to invest it without the taxman wondering where it came from?
I am asking because I've hit some good variance recently, but had some bad variance before that I didn't properly document, so if I were to have to report my winnings I am not sure my loss deductions would stick, which would be a huge -EV...
And I am not very comfortable with cash sitting around.
Anyway, what kind of opportunities are out there? I think for example you can buy bitcoin anonymously although it's more complicated than through normal exchanges. Any other recommendations?

Invest your money in a dentistry school in England.

Ba dum tss



I keep my money in...
Cash
Safe Deposit Box at bank
In bank account
In sportsbook apps
<some keep some on online casinos, I don't, sorta>
I don't much anymore, but used to keep a pile of casino chips
I've invested some money into real estate
bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
front money at various casinos
some money is held by other APs (whom I trust, of course)
i have a little bit in precious metals

there's probably other stuff i can't think of right now

Quote: RS

Invest your money in a dentistry school in England.

Ba dum tss

Lol. You never see an English dentist looking down in the mouth.

They sit in a very lucrative position within our liberal NHS system. They diagnose and determine treatment options and the NHS picks up most of the tab. They are certainly in a generally comfortable financial position, as are General Practice doctors, who earn good money with good benefits. Probably not on a par with US equiv, but a sound AP career path. That said, good dentistry costs us end users quite little. UK Dentistry falls half way between NHS central funding and private treatment funding.

Quote: OnceDear

Effectively almost all of salary can be diverted free of income tax into a pension PLUS up to 20,000 of other money from whatever source can be put into a tax free 'Individual savings account' to buy shares or sit as cash. ...

well, I'll be. Of course there is only one way you can still make it through if you don't use your salary to live - you have to have quite a stash. The politics that would surround that in the US would make supporters of such a thing look like Marie-Antoinette to the nth.

Apologies for hijacking the thread btw