ByeByeW2G
ByeByeW2G
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April 30th, 2017 at 1:51:06 PM permalink
Casino slot machine players are required by the Internal Revenue Service to sign a form W-2G on wins of $1200 or more. This unfair tax needs to be eliminated in new tax plan. Gamblers have already have paid taxes on their money. By ending form W-2G everyone wins. The Government and the Casinos win by saving on the processing expenses. Gamblers win by not having to pay tax on the rare chance that they do hit the big one.

I wanted to let you know about a new petition I created on We the People, a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov, and ask for your support. Will you add your name to mine? If this petition gets 99,999 signatures by May 30, 2017, the White House will review it and respond!

You can view and sign the petition at WhiteHouse.gov

/petition/stop-punishing-gamblers-lose-form-w-2g-certain-gambling-winnings/
billryan
billryan
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April 30th, 2017 at 2:32:41 PM permalink
What taxes have you already paid on your casino winnings?
Why are you okay with them taxing your labor but object to them taxing your leisure?
As far as getting a response from this WH, don't hold your breath.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Deucekies
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April 30th, 2017 at 3:34:16 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

What taxes have you already paid on your casino winnings?



Any money you win from the casino had to have previously been lost to the casino by someone else. Eventually, all money can be traced back to somebody's paycheck, where it was taxed as income.

Not saying this is a good argument or not, but I believe that is the OP's argument.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
onenickelmiracle
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April 30th, 2017 at 3:47:35 PM permalink
The strong prey on the weak and don't stop. The inheritance tax, etc., has a moral argument they use to screw the poor and middle classes, so things such as this can be.
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DRich
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April 30th, 2017 at 5:12:34 PM permalink
Quote: ByeByeW2G

Casino slot machine players are required by the Internal Revenue Service to sign a form W-2G on wins of $1200 or more. This unfair tax needs to be eliminated in new tax plan. Gamblers have already have paid taxes on their money. By ending form W-2G everyone wins. The Government and the Casinos win by saving on the processing expenses. Gamblers win by not having to pay tax on the rare chance that they do hit the big one.

I wanted to let you know about a new petition I created on We the People, a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov, and ask for your support. Will you add your name to mine? If this petition gets 99,999 signatures by May 30, 2017, the White House will review it and respond!

You can view and sign the petition at WhiteHouse.gov

/petition/stop-punishing-gamblers-lose-form-w-2g-certain-gambling-winnings/



I hate to be this guy, but do you realize all wins are subject to tax? Yes, even if you win $1 it is taxable.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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April 30th, 2017 at 5:14:16 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Any money you win from the casino had to have previously been lost to the casino by someone else. Eventually, all money can be traced back to somebody's paycheck, where it was taxed as income.

Not saying this is a good argument or not, but I believe that is the OP's argument.



You work. You get taxed. Now you take your leftover money and use some of it to buy a painting from me. As you paid for it with already taxed money, can I now not pay taxes on what I received?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Deucekies
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April 30th, 2017 at 9:39:54 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

You work. You get taxed. Now you take your leftover money and use some of it to buy a painting from me. As you paid for it with already taxed money, can I now not pay taxes on what I received?



Like I said, it's not a good point.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
RS
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April 30th, 2017 at 10:29:41 PM permalink
The only good thing I can think of Canada is (apparently) they don't tax gambling winnings.


And CRJ, obvii.
billryan
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April 30th, 2017 at 11:04:57 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Like I said, it's not a good point.



And yet that is the argument against an estate tax.
Someone works for a man. They pay taxes on the money they get.
Now the man dies and leaves the money to his kids.
Why should the folks that work pay taxes on what they get but the kids pay nothing on what they get? In either case, the man had already paid taxes on the money.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
PokerGrinder
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April 30th, 2017 at 11:24:55 PM permalink
Quote: RS

The only good thing I can think of Canada is (apparently) they don't tax gambling winnings.


And CRJ, obvii.



Yes no taxes in Canada on gambling. As well when I win a jackpot in the states I don't end up paying taxes either.

What's CRJ?
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
RS
RS
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April 30th, 2017 at 11:29:40 PM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

Yes no taxes in Canada on gambling. As well when I win a jackpot in the states I don't end up paying taxes either.

What's CRJ?


Carly Rae Jepsen, you noob.

As a foreigner, aren't you supposed to pay like 30% or something atrocious? Or do you do some weird Canadian tax thing (like say "sowry" many times until they decide to give you a refund)?

EDIT: Oh I get the joke now. Since you don't hit any jackpots, there's no jackpot tax to pay. Very clever. :)
PokerGrinder
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April 30th, 2017 at 11:47:01 PM permalink
Lol I didn't realize CRJ was Canadian...

I do pay taxes when the Jackpot is hit but I get every penny back the next calendar year as a tax refund from the USA. I think it is part of an agreement between Canada and the US.
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
ThenWhatHappens
ThenWhatHappens
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April 30th, 2017 at 11:50:55 PM permalink
No more withholding, no more filing a return, no more income tax. I have long been a supporter of the Fairtax.
fairtax.org
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onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2017 at 2:20:21 AM permalink
Quote: RS

The only good thing I can think of Canada is (apparently) they don't tax gambling winnings.


And CRJ, obvii.

I had heard not only not taxed, but a constitutional right. Think I read that in Casino Player years ago.
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odiousgambit
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onenickelmiracle
May 1st, 2017 at 2:41:29 AM permalink
I think the tradition comes from the UK, Australians pay no tax as well. That there is such a tradition may even be because royalty likes to bet on the horses - this would never be admitted I think.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Zcore13
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May 1st, 2017 at 6:51:10 AM permalink
Ridiculous argument by the OP and I doubt he'll even return. Probably just here to advertise his petition

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
ByeByeW2G
ByeByeW2G
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:20:07 AM permalink
Sorry you feel it is a ridiculous argument but the congress is working on simplifying income taxes. This would be one of many ways to do it. I have never done anything like this before but I feel very strongly about this issue. I go to the casino twice a week and play the five dollar slots and yes I hit many taxable jackpots. I have to use my players card so I can get a loss statement at the end of the year to offset my winnings when I file my taxes. I have to pay somebody to do this. I like to go to casinos when I travel. When I hit jackpots out of state that even makes filing income tax more difficult. Sure I usually lose more than I win. But five years ago I hit a $400,000 jackpot. That put me in a higher bracket and I had to come up with $100,000 to pay my taxes. I know it is a long shot that the congress will get anything done but being the gambler that I am if there is a chance I am in. I hope some of you feel the way I do.
Ibeatyouraces
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:24:03 AM permalink
Never gonna happen. Not with the government greed in this country.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
BTLWI
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:52:45 AM permalink
How do the poor and middle class get screwed by inheritance tax when it doesn't start until the estate is valued at $5M? Is that the bottom threshold for poor/middle class these days?
odiousgambit
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May 1st, 2017 at 9:01:33 AM permalink
Quote: ByeByeW2G

...Gamblers have already have paid taxes on their money. By ending form W-2G everyone wins. The Government and the Casinos win by saving on the processing expenses. Gamblers win by not having to pay tax on the rare chance that they do hit the big one.

The OP oddly does not address legitimate issues and seems to pin his hopes on this double taxation argument - why, the Government wins too!

Legitimate issues unaddressed:

For the non-professional gambler, the issuing of W2-gs can be unfair - you can catch people who normally can't itemize deductions just right with what is basically an assertion that it is income. Many still can't itemize and claim the offsetting losses that would show it is not income. Renters are prone to the problem.

Not allowing a carry-over for losses is also unfair.

PS: for those cases where it *is* income without offsetting losses, does he really think ...
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
ahiromu
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May 1st, 2017 at 9:06:37 AM permalink
There are bigger inequities in our tax system than the current laws and rules regarding gambling winnings. The worldwide tax on earnings that the US employs is BS. Creates absurd headaches and legal bills for expats. Should be by residence.

On Canada, McCarran has entertaining posters in the international terminal:

Win big in the US
Get taxed 30%
Feel cheated
Call RMS & get your money back
Life is good again
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
TigerWu
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May 1st, 2017 at 10:11:15 AM permalink
Quote: BTLWI

How do the poor and middle class get screwed by inheritance tax when it doesn't start until the estate is valued at $5M? Is that the bottom threshold for poor/middle class these days?



Not only that, only six states collect inheritance tax, and in all of those, you are exempt if you are the spouse. Even if you're NOT the spouse, inheritance tax is like 15% max.

I wouldn't complain for one second about an estate tax; that would mean I'm already up millions of dollars and would never have to work another day in my life.
billryan
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May 1st, 2017 at 10:43:46 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Not only that, only six states collect inheritance tax, and in all of those, you are exempt if you are the spouse. Even if you're NOT the spouse, inheritance tax is like 15% max.

I wouldn't complain for one second about an estate tax; that would mean I'm already up millions of dollars and would never have to work another day in my life.



Not exactly. NY State has slowly been raising its threshold but only a few years ago it was $600,000. My Aunt died in 2014 and it was 1.1 million. Divide that up between three main beneficiaries and a couple smaller ones and its not that much money. When all was said and done, my Mothers share was under $300,000.
Nice, but not never work another day in your life money.
I think the State and Federal should be the same and kick in around ten million or so.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2017 at 11:26:54 AM permalink
Taxes and budgets being a zero sum game, if someone is let off the hook, it's going to translate into some kind of pain for someone else whether that means paying paying fees, having your taxes higher than they could etc., etc.

There is also a detriment to W2Gs, overall returns must be lower to pay for the "burden" of paying them out. The higher the returns, the longer people play until burning their money to zero and getting more hand pays along the way. They say the same thing about horseracing having exotic bet takeouts 25%. This lowers many tickets below reporting thresholds, makes more money and reduces labor for paperwork.
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rsactuary
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May 1st, 2017 at 12:15:28 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Taxes and budgets being a zero sum game, if someone is let off the hook, it's going to translate into some kind of pain for someone else whether that means paying paying fees, having your taxes higher than they could etc., etc.

There is also a detriment to W2Gs, overall returns must be lower to pay for the "burden" of paying them out. The higher the returns, the longer people play until burning their money to zero and getting more hand pays along the way. They say the same thing about horseracing having exotic bet takeouts 25%. This lowers many tickets below reporting thresholds, makes more money and reduces labor for paperwork.



Are there any federal government sources that estimate taxes paid due to gambling winnings? I would have assumed it wasn't that much after people deducted losses.
billryan
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May 1st, 2017 at 12:35:43 PM permalink
I'd imagine quite a few people just use the standard deduction, even with gaming wins and losses.
Get enough W-2s and your income may be pushed into a higher bracket even with deductions and then there is the dread AMT. An insidious tax meant to only affect the rich but which hasn't been adjusted for inflation since 1969.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Dalex64
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May 1st, 2017 at 2:09:38 PM permalink
I think the AMT has been adjusted for inflation since 2013.
billryan
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May 1st, 2017 at 4:52:24 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

I think the AMT has been adjusted for inflation since 2013.




You are correct. Just in time for me to stop needing it. Thanks, Obama.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2017 at 5:23:18 PM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

Are there any federal government sources that estimate taxes paid due to gambling winnings? I would have assumed it wasn't that much after people deducted losses.

I do not know. States really pray for a Powerball winner, for the money they bring. I've heard of some older people being affected by losing money gambling, yet with jackpots, think it has to do with Medicare.
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DRich
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May 1st, 2017 at 7:36:03 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I do not know. States really pray for a Powerball winner, for the money they bring. I've heard of some older people being affected by losing money gambling, yet with jackpots, think it has to do with Medicare.



I disagree. I think the states would rather have the jackpot keep climbing because they make more revenue when the jackpot is big and people aren't winning it.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:01:33 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I disagree. I think the states would rather have the jackpot keep climbing because they make more revenue when the jackpot is big and people aren't winning it.

Elaborate.
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RS
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:20:32 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Elaborate.


I don't know who gets what money when someone buys a ticket or who gets tax money....but I think the idea is:

If the double double super-mega ball is at $500 million dollars, bunch'a people are gonna go out and buy tickets. The state, presumably, makes money from all these tickets purchased. If no one wins, the double double super-mega ball goes to like $700 million or some nonsense. Now, more people are going to play it. Again, state makes money off the tickets, but no one wins. Now the double double super-mega ball goes to $1.2 billion....rinse wash repeat. And all that money in the double double super-mega ball is already a sunk cost or whatever it's called, BUT, it's already guaranteed tax money for the state (assuming someone eventually hits it). So if it's at $500 million right now and the state would get $250 million in taxes if it's hit, why does it matter if they hit it now or next week, they'll still get that $250 million in taxes, PLUS, additional money from ticket cost, PLUS increased tax from when the progressive goes up.
onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2017 at 8:37:13 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I don't know who gets what money when someone buys a ticket or who gets tax money....but I think the idea is:

If the double double super-mega ball is at $500 million dollars, bunch'a people are gonna go out and buy tickets. The state, presumably, makes money from all these tickets purchased. If no one wins, the double double super-mega ball goes to like $700 million or some nonsense. Now, more people are going to play it. Again, state makes money off the tickets, but no one wins. Now the double double super-mega ball goes to $1.2 billion....rinse wash repeat. And all that money in the double double super-mega ball is already a sunk cost or whatever it's called, BUT, it's already guaranteed tax money for the state (assuming someone eventually hits it). So if it's at $500 million right now and the state would get $250 million in taxes if it's hit, why does it matter if they hit it now or next week, they'll still get that $250 million in taxes, PLUS, additional money from ticket cost, PLUS increased tax from when the progressive goes up.

Big jackpot burnout waiting for a bigger jackpot.
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