Wingnut
Wingnut
Joined: Jun 21, 2015
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August 26th, 2016 at 9:42:19 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Guys... I... I.... I'm just sorry for calling Dan to the thread.

I really am sorry... lol



You should be. You invited the guy who thinks that anyone who has more than $1500 in cash is a SCHMUCK and deserves whatever perils befall them to the discussion.


Paigowdan here: Let me say if you're carrying more than a paycheck's worth of cash when traveling domestically ($1,500 with a pay check stub), then something may be up, in the eyes of law enforcement. If you're innocent, fine, if you're dead-to-rights guilty, also fine - but you're a SCHMUCK if you're so stupid as to travel with tons to cash; little sympathy from me if you have no brains on the road and how to travel with money. Sad? - Yes, oftentimes very sad, but a bit of Cry me a river if you fail to think before you travel.


The current asset forfeiture laws were constructed in the Reagan years to assist the war on drugs. News flash, drugs won that war. Look at what we have now and how many people we have incarcerated because of the war on drugs. It has even spawned a new industry, private prisons because the government prisons were full. The laws were to allow the DEA to seize cash from drug dealers and drug king pins to hurt them financially. This was a good idea since drugs were making foreign drug producers rich at America's expense. These laws however are being used by many government agencies against law abiding citizens simply to steal their money and property. The fact is that the government steals more in asset forfeiture from citizens than criminals do every year. It's disgusting.

The problem is that the way the laws are written the government, whether City, State or Federal can seize property without an arrest or a conviction by simply stating that the property is either the product of or is to be used in criminal activity. All any cop has to say is that because of their "training" in their op inion this property is the proceeds of criminal behavior and they can and will seize it. There is no burden of proof on the police or other agencies to prove their suspicions or to even prosecute the owner of the property. After the property is seized the prosecutor who has jurisdiction will file charges against the property and here is the kicker, the prosecutors office keeps a large percentage of the property or the proceeds. This means that you must go to court and defend your money against the same people that want to keep it and use it for their department since these funds are not in any budget. There is a company started by a California highway patrolman called Desert Snow that teaches the art of "highway interdiction." No kidding. This is so far out of control that it seems surreal. Many departments regularly send officers to this school to learn how to steal your money.

IMO the problem goes beyond police and government agencies seizing property it is the governments wish that there would be no cash transactions at all so that they could track every cent that citizens have and spend. It's their desire to have total control over the population that is what makes these transgressions commonplace. Many banks, Bank of America in particular, are so afraid of government intervention that they have been forced to become government informants, not only by being forced to comply with our restrictive banking laws and filing CTR's and SAR's but by asking every customer why they are withdrawing cash. Try this experiment, go to BoA and withdraw Dan's magic number of $1500 and see if the teller doesn't slyly ask what the money is for. I tell them it's none of their F'N business every time they ask which is every time that I withdraw cash. One of the banks that I have one of my business accounts in charges fees for depositing cash in excess of $10,000 per year. That's right they charge to take my cash, not checks or credit cards only the cash. Why would a bank charge more to do transactions that have less risk and less effort for them? My guess is that it is a some regulation by the feds. BoA now forces customers to supply ID for all cash transactions. Try this trick, go to BoA and deposit your pay check but add $5 cash to the deposit. They will demand that you produce ID to complete the transaction. They require ID for all cash transactions of any amount. In years past it has been commonplace for renters to simply make deposits into accounts that were set up by landlords to receive rent payments. Try and make a deposit into someones account now and see what kind of reaction you get. If it's cash forget it. A check may slide especially in the drive thru but cash is a no no if it's not your account and you don't have ID.

OK so IANAL but I know that it is still legal for an American citizen to hold as much cash as they desire and it's probably legal for anyone citizen or not to hold cash for any reason within our borders. To see what has and is happening around our country you should go to the Washington Post and look up their great series of articles on asset forfeiture. There you will see where police, DEA, IRS and other agencies have ruined or tried to ruin the lives of law abiding citizens in their never ending thirst for more money and more control. Look up Desert Snow, City of Philadelphia asset forfeiture, the feds having to assume control of the northern Nevada Highway Patrol district, the ACLU's suit against Tenaha, or what the IRS has seized from businesses that operate legally and see for yourself how bad this is. There are also videos on youtube and an interview with a couple of guys on GWAE. It's so easy to find the proof because it's so prevalent.

Folks have been writing about flying with cash and stated limits etc. A lot of what has been written is BS and comes from peoples speculation. Don't take what has been written in this thread as gospel because there are too many assumptions and too little fact. Do your own research to find out the facts for yourself and your situation so that you can protect yourself. It is not against the law to fly or travel with cash from anywhere to anywhere. If you leave the country by any mode and are holding cash in an amount over $10,000 you simply must declare it. What many don't realize is if you are traveling with a friend or spouse (on the same ticket especially) and the cash between both of you is over $10,000 you are required to declare it. These regs are also not limited to cash but all cash instruments. If you live in Detroit and gamble at Windsor and carry a supply of chips over $10,000 or cashiers checks you had better declare it. I would not trust the border guards if they searched you and found the chips or cashiers checks that weren't declared, and by the way never tell the guards at the tunnel that you went there to gamble, I made that mistake once, and furthermore I would NEVER tell a cop that I was going to or coming from a casino. Cops can seize anything of value not only cash, and of course they often have their own interpretation of laws which in many cases are not proper. And by the way don't think for a NY second that you can fly to Vegas with a $10,000 cashiers check in your pocket on Friday night and cash it at a casino cage without being a known player with a credit line there. You won't be gambling until they can verify that check. Yes when I was a neophyte I tried that, didn't work, didn't gamble.

Just so no one starts in on this being a political party issue, it's not. The laws were passed during Reagan's tenure but the amount of cash and property seized has doubled during Obama's terms. It's our government's thirst for more, not Republicans or Democrats. It's lousy politicians that couldn't care less about their citizens or their rights. I also don't want to hear well it won't happen to me so it doesn't matter. If it happens to anyone it can happen to you and if it happens to only one person that is too many and shouldn't be ignored or condoned.


As you can tell I am passionate about this issue and I wish every citizen was as passionate as I am because there is far too much complacency in our country today which allows the government to overstep it's bounds and then lie about it in court. I was a staunch police supporter for my entire life until about 15 years ago when I started reading about what the police and the government were doing. I now must assume that I have more chance of being robbed or shot by a cop than being helped by them. I don't trust the police or government anymore with good reason. I'm sure there are "good cops" and good politicians in our country but even the good ones will lie in court to protect the bad ones which I guess means that they aren't good ones at all.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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August 26th, 2016 at 9:46:59 PM permalink
It's a cat and mouse game- you can no longer used prepaid credit cards overseas because of drug dealer using them to cross the border with hundreds of thousands in cards that were undetectable
Then just run in Mexico.... You can load a card with a green dot money Pak anymore same reasons
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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August 26th, 2016 at 9:49:33 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Or a sail boat from Biloxi to Key West. Or buy an RV in Biloxi and drive to Key West, the cops are always looking for RVs going in the other direction.



Some time back, I had a real good Biloxi trip. Stopped by Wells Fargo in both Biloxi and Ocean Springs when the wallet got too full.
If I ever have occasion to have more than 10k to deposit, I have another Credit Union and an Amex debit card, deposits can be made at Walmart. There is way too much paranoia in this thread, common sense has flown the coop.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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August 26th, 2016 at 11:09:18 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Pah. Don't apologize. Summoning him resulted in him offering real advice, good advice. For most of you, it (should be) old news. But some of us? I'm a middle aged man and I just found out what a cashier's check is not 8 weeks ago. Had no idea that was an available means to transport funds or conduct business with. I learned something.

And I hope Dan realizes, despite my inflammatory language (and I do sincerely apologize if I offended you, Dan), that my rail was against one thing only and that was your seeming acceptance of and lack of anger towards what is (to me) such a grave injustice. I really hope this thread at least made you think.


Much obliged - all is good with Face.

Quote: odiousgambit

If I was his guru or something, I might guide him away from some of his conflicts is all. The greatest maxim of Sun Tzu, crystallized, is that you should 'pick the time and place of your battles'. He might learn from that one, I think our boy is a little too ready to tangle.


Debate are good, if civil and of good arguments, it strengthens wit and critical thinking. Debating at a forum is more like wrestling than war.

Quote: AW

Dan talks about cashiers checks and people mentioned other methods DON'T THINK YOU'RE SAFE WITH OTHER METHODS ***The Oklahoma Department of Public Safety has purchased several devices capable of seizing funds loaded on to prepaid debit cards to aid troopers in roadside seizures of suspected drug-trafficking proceeds.** Next it could be cashiers checks, wire transfers, money orders. Maybe you get it back maybe you don't, maybe it costs you lots of time and money. It's a slippery slope.


It is. When they start arbitrarily raiding the personal accounts a person has, it has gone to a ridiculous level. I just can't see how they can tap personal bank accounts; what's next, get caught with a checkbook and you'd have to donate to the state for just passing through an area? We read Orwell's 1984 with a "thank God I live in America, land of the free," if that [our financial freedom] goes, all is lost.
I may go to Barona/So Cal from Vegas soon enough, I think $80 in cash for gas is explainable, the rest in my account debit card or in TC's. I get a ticket for speeding or a broken tail light, that should be just a ticket and that it is, God willing.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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August 27th, 2016 at 12:55:46 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Much obliged - all is good with Face.


Debate are good, if civil and of good arguments, it strengthens wit and critical thinking. Debating at a forum is more like wrestling than war.


It is. When they start arbitrarily raiding the personal accounts a person has, it has gone to a ridiculous level. I just can't see how they can tap personal bank accounts; what's next, get caught with a checkbook and you'd have to donate to the state for just passing through an area? We read Orwell's 1984 with a "thank God I live in America, land of the free," if that [our financial freedom] goes, all is lost.
I may go to Barona/So Cal from Vegas soon enough, I think $80 in cash for gas is explainable, the rest in my account debit card or in TC's. I get a ticket for speeding or a broken tail light, that should be just a ticket and that it is, God willing.

IT'S WENT TOO A RIDICULOUS LEVEL. As I already pointed out they have a device that can and does steal your funds from your personal account. And it's attitudes from people like you that's lead to the slip in that slope(It's all under the same law) >>>
Quote: Dan

but you're a SCHMUCK if you're so stupid as to travel with tons to cash; little sympathy from me if you have no brains on the road and how to travel with money. Sad? - Yes, oftentimes very sad, but a bit of Cry me a river if you fail to think before you travel.

IMO, BY FAR THE WORST THING YOU HAVE EVER SAID ON HERE, I kinda get the AP stuff because you're in the table games business, but this isn't an AP or casino issue, it's an American issue that affects everyone and it could be you or a loved one being a schmuck by simply carrying a debit card or cashiers check.


Nowadays many americans use prepaid debit cards it's really no difference than a debit card issued by your bank. you need Name/address/ phone number/email/ dob/SS# etc.
Oftentimes people use them as their primary finance tool and payment method to control their finances while avoiding overdraft fees. It's not just for people who can't get or don't have bank accounts most prepaid debit card holders also have a bank account.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
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August 27th, 2016 at 9:54:43 AM permalink
Let's not forget those invisible roadside towers that scan you as you whiz by, reading your credit and debit card info from your wallet and emptying out your accounts before you reach the next exit. Also beware of the millions of invisible police drones that X-ray everyone to see if they have more than $20 on them, in which case local police are alerted and directed to your location to confiscate the money.

Really, at what point does this devolve into irrational paranoia? All I'm hearing and seeing here is "xyz happens," which is meaningless. Earthquakes happen. World wars happen. Acts of extreme violence by midgets happen. Burnt egg mcmuffins happen. So what?

Again, I've examined reputable news sources, and nowhere do I see any evidence that an honest citizen is in danger of losing assets to the police. Yes, on VERY RARE occasions, cash is confiscated, but it's relatively straightforward to get it back, though a hassle, obviously. What is NOT happening is the cops swarming the interstate, looking for people to rob so they can put more money in the police party fund.

I do realize that nothing I can say will serve as any kind of antidote to paranoia. Also, especially if you hate cops, a good old internet anecdote about how eeeeeevil they are is sure more entertaining than reality.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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August 27th, 2016 at 10:07:47 AM permalink
We can maintain the position that traveling with too much cold hard cash is foolish and is asking for trouble in too many ways.

As stated, I'm not sympathetic to those who fail to plan.

True, we have to refuse to be paranoid after taking reasonable precautions.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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August 27th, 2016 at 10:23:33 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

We can maintain the position that traveling with too much cold hard cash is foolish and is asking for trouble in too many ways.

As stated, I'm not sympathetic to those who fail to plan.

True, we have to refuse to be paranoid after taking reasonable precautions.

No I can't agree it's foolish because there's many different reasons to travel with cash. Risky perhaps but not foolish. There's a multitude of reasons someone might have 2k+ on them.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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August 27th, 2016 at 12:23:40 PM permalink
Wrong thread.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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August 27th, 2016 at 2:20:34 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

We can maintain the position that traveling with too much cold hard cash is foolish and is asking for trouble in too many ways.

As stated, I'm not sympathetic to those who fail to plan.

True, we have to refuse to be paranoid after taking reasonable precautions.




Ugh such a frustrating statement- let's just give one example
In three weeks I'm taking a group of 24 people out for a party at Peter lugars in Brooklyn
It's cash only- so prolly 'need 3-5k. Should I be accosted on the way to dinner as to why I have so
Much cash
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either

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