beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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July 12th, 2015 at 3:22:25 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

No issue, unless you take offense at being nice and and looking for reasons someone is a legitimate poster rather than a sock puppet or BS artist.



Okey dokey! That would be me, all right. It read somewhat differently than that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 12th, 2015 at 6:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Okey dokey! That would be me, all right. It read somewhat differently than that.

No, in no way it wasn't meant as a derogatory comment. There's nothing wrong with with giving someone the benefit of the doubt. You're a moderator looking out for the best interest of the site and the owners. Missions response, and usually yours are probably exactly on par with what management should expect.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MissEye
MissEye
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July 12th, 2015 at 6:54:44 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

While were at it, why the surge in long time lurkers who suddenly decide that it's time to make their first post? Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just naturally curious.



I haven't been a lurker, I'm actually new to the forum section of this site. I've enjoyed reading on this thread all of the differences between surveillance operations. There's a ton of great info on these forums but I probably won't post too often since there's not much love for surveillance on here :)
kewlj
kewlj
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:27:23 PM permalink
Quote: MissEye

but I probably won't post too often since there's not much love for surveillance on here :)



If you are looking for love, you are probably looking in the wrong place, MissEye. (just like the song says...lol)

But I can tell you that I 'appreciate' your participation here. Despite that I AP for a living, I am not one of those guys that thinks surveillance and pit folks are the enemy. Sure we have different agendas, interests and goals but generally, I feel like there is room for co-existence, especially if the AP (me) identifies and respects certain tolerance or comfort levels of the casino. These levels differ by casino, time, day and it is our job (AP's) to identify the level for that exact moment. In the event that I misidentify such a level or misread a certain situation and am asked not to play right then, I don't take that personally. It's business.

Communicating with folks like yourself on websites like this as well as in real life (I have a real good friend who works the pit), have helped me to do my job of understanding comfort and tolerance levels, so I welcome every chance I get to interact with you folks.

I also find it very interesting that many folks that work the other side, the evil side, lol, as you do, are interested in our side outside of the work place and often play or are learning to play with an advantage. So I certainly don't look at you as the enemy. :)
djatc
djatc
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July 12th, 2015 at 8:38:27 PM permalink
As long as there is mutual respect and understanding between APs and casino staff we will be good. I don't understand the hate between the two, with the APs hating casino personnel for "fleecing the public out of money", or the casino people looking down on APs that can figure out math and beat promotions or games. It's just the way it is and I find the customer service in a casino to be extremely top notch on average, above all other forms of hospitality.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
MissEye
MissEye
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July 12th, 2015 at 9:08:53 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

If you are looking for love, you are probably looking in the wrong place, MissEye. (just like the song says...lol)

But I can tell you that I 'appreciate' your participation here. Despite that I AP for a living, I am not one of those guys that thinks surveillance and pit folks are the enemy. Sure we have different agendas, interests and goals but generally, I feel like there is room for co-existence, especially if the AP (me) identifies and respects certain tolerance or comfort levels of the casino. These levels differ by casino, time, day and it is our job (AP's) to identify the level for that exact moment. In the event that I misidentify such a level or misread a certain situation and am asked not to play right then, I don't take that personally. It's business.

Communicating with folks like yourself on websites like this as well as in real life (I have a real good friend who works the pit), have helped me to do my job of understanding comfort and tolerance levels, so I welcome every chance I get to interact with you folks.

I also find it very interesting that many folks that work the other side, the evil side, lol, as you do, are interested in our side outside of the work place and often play or are learning to play with an advantage. So I certainly don't look at you as the enemy. :)



Thanks kewlj. I do hope to show that many of us evil side people have nothing against AP. I do play some myself and enjoy learning about the best ways to give myself advantages.
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
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July 13th, 2015 at 2:13:40 AM permalink
Quote: MissEye

Not really. Anytime I see an under pay I call down and have it corrected immediately. We also go through what ever measures we can to return money when someone accidently leaves chips at the table or at the cage. Believe what you like.




I agree. We do it all the time at my property as well. When we come over to pay someone who was shorted, you would be amazed at the response from not only the player involved, but all the other players who witness the transaction.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
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July 13th, 2015 at 2:31:18 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Your last paragraph made me smile. Pit personnel "name" unknown players all the time. My all time favorite was a guy that would puff out his cheeks when he was playing. He was known as blowfish for years.

And by the way, it takes me about a shoe, at the very most and rarely two to be sure someone is or isn't an Advantage Blackjack player. I've never been wrong after reviewing tape. I think it's much easier in the trenches than via cameras. Many more things to use to determine it.



ZCore13



I laughed at this one. We do name the unrated players. We had one guy at a property long ago who when we asked him if he wanted to be rated he yelled "Leave Me Alone". Ever since then, we rated him as "Lee Malone". Everyone immediately knew who that was. Happens a lot.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 13th, 2015 at 2:40:07 AM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

I laughed at this one. We do name the unrated players. We had one guy at a property long ago who when we asked him if he wanted to be rated he yelled "Leave Me Alone". Ever since then, we rated him as "Lee Malone". Everyone immediately knew who that was. Happens a lot.

AP's also have nicknames for casino employees and other AP's.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
KingoftheEye
KingoftheEye
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July 14th, 2015 at 7:29:03 AM permalink
Quote: tongni

are you guys prosecuting offset betting or claiming it's a crime?

edit: in conjunction with a program



Offset betting in any significant volume is a big red flag. If it is a company that has to follow U.S. money laundering rules than you can expect to get warned so the company doesn't get fined by the IRS. If you continue than you could be backed off, or at a minimum have a suspicious activity report on you referred to relevant authorities depending on the local jurisdiction and rules.

If you are offset betting on program, you would stick out like dog's balls as a potential A.P. You are just begging for trouble.
LVJackal
LVJackal
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July 15th, 2015 at 4:06:18 AM permalink
Quote: KingoftheEye

.

If you are offset betting on program, you would stick out like dog's balls as a potential A.P. You are just begging for trouble.



This is horribly, horribly wrong. There maybe some obscure comp hustle but the expected loss of both players is exactly the same. In fact, the house should welcome it as it almost completely removes variance and ensures the house acquires its advantage. From what I hear some casinos will not book a larger bet on either side unless there is some offsetting wager
KingoftheEye
KingoftheEye
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July 16th, 2015 at 4:18:22 AM permalink
Quote: LVJackal

This is horribly, horribly wrong. There maybe some obscure comp hustle but the expected loss of both players is exactly the same. In fact, the house should welcome it as it almost completely removes variance and ensures the house acquires its advantage. From what I hear some casinos will not book a larger bet on either side unless there is some offsetting wager



So, two players on loss rebate programs, offset betting against each other couldn't get an advantage?
LVJackal
LVJackal
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July 16th, 2015 at 5:30:45 AM permalink
Then it is the program itself that has the flaw... if only based on loss and not on theoretical.. offset betting then would enable one to further exploit it... but to be clear.. it is the loss rebate that allows for the advantage.

To test this imagine a double zero roulette wheel:

One bets $100 Black, one $100 Red..

36 spins they net 0 and 2 spins they lose $400 total, therefore EV= 400/38 = 10.526 or 5.263% of the wager... kinda... really close to the house edge...
KingoftheEye
KingoftheEye
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July 17th, 2015 at 11:52:13 AM permalink
Quote: LVJackal

Then it is the program itself that has the flaw... if only based on loss and not on theoretical.. offset betting then would enable one to further exploit it... but to be clear.. it is the loss rebate that allows for the advantage.

To test this imagine a double zero roulette wheel:

One bets $100 Black, one $100 Red..

36 spins they net 0 and 2 spins they lose $400 total, therefore EV= 400/38 = 10.526 or 5.263% of the wager... kinda... really close to the house edge...



Great, so you admit I wasn't so horribly wrong, I know that's a tough call for a player to make on a casino person, and I appreciate it. By the way, your roulette example is valid, but a bit weak, instead think two players working together on loss rebate offsetting a baccarat game.
Dodsferd
Dodsferd
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October 17th, 2015 at 3:37:29 PM permalink
Arise My Champion


*bump*

World of Warcraft reference. Image is of Inquisitor Highmane, who says the above line before resurrecting a fallen warrior.
This feeling is heavy, makes my body ache and I'm ready; To fall into the sky and I see now, the reason why. My heart is heavy, takes me to a place I can't breathe. Only then I know why I see the warning sign.
RS
RS
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October 17th, 2015 at 4:28:43 PM permalink
Quote: Dodsferd

Arise My Champion


*bump*

World of Warcraft reference. Image is of Inquisitor Highmane, who says the above line before resurrecting a fallen warrior.



She says "bump" ?
Dodsferd
Dodsferd
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October 17th, 2015 at 4:32:47 PM permalink
Quote: RS



She says "bump" ?



No, lol. She says "Arise my champion"

It's just a reference that popped into my head when I thought to resurrect the thread.
This feeling is heavy, makes my body ache and I'm ready; To fall into the sky and I see now, the reason why. My heart is heavy, takes me to a place I can't breathe. Only then I know why I see the warning sign.
Wonko33
Wonko33
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October 17th, 2015 at 10:21:09 PM permalink
Well a lot of good facial recog and all those high tech cameras did for the Bellagio, it was a tattletale dealer that made them realize they were being taken for millions. I think we overestimate the capabilities of Casinos ,it's all part of the folklore. Truth is it doesn't matter how much tech you have, you keep underpaying people to monitor them and you get a bunch of bored employees who don't give a crap
So Wizard, still no basic strategy for strip poker huh?
hailtotheskins
hailtotheskins
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October 18th, 2015 at 12:55:15 AM permalink
Quote: Dodsferd

Arise My Champion


*bump*

World of Warcraft reference. Image is of Inquisitor Highmane, who says the above line before resurrecting a fallen warrior.



lol NEEEERRRRDDDDDDDDD
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