Casino cheats

Hadn't seen this one before.

Pretty interesting, but farirly basic.

cheats

Light wands? Didn't they disappear when coin out
machines disappeared about 10 years ago?

Quote: EvenBob

Light wands? Didn't they disappear when coin out
machines disappeared about 10 years ago?

Obviously you don't understand that they never claimed thats still being used, that was the history, once coin op machines went away, they upgraded the cheating method and went after bill validators worth far more, and it was 10x quicker and easier.

Quote: AxelWolf

Obviously you don't understand that they never claimed thats still being used,

Obviously they didn't say that, the way they
presented it was like it was still going on.

Obviously.

Quote: EvenBob

Obviously they didn't say that, the way they
presented it was like it was still going on.

Obviously.

Well it could still be going on but unlikely, if you watch they do explain casinos went to TITO and a new device was born.

Criminals. Starts off saying, "Its a business". Same as murder for hire, carjacking by a thug, or arson for hire. Jails are full of people even with brilliant minds and just thought no one would notice or they were smarter and could get away with whatever. All cheating, stealing and other along the likes is what is terribly wrong with our society.

I think that video is kinda old, maybe 4-5 years.

According to the video, they estimate [up to?] 100 million dollars was stolen from slot machines using the light-wand. I don't know much about cheating, but, that figure seems very high.

Aria surveillance manager: "Late bets, that's unusual, so we look into it." LOL.


Regarding European roulette "scam"...........something like, "this form is cheating wasn't illegal". So uhh.....if it's not illegal, how is it cheating? O_O


It's sad they put card counting in the video. But, meh.

Quote: RS

It's sad they put card counting in the video. But, meh.

I guess if you want to have the casino personnel in your show to make it look official, you have to give them some free propaganda space.

Quote: RS

I think that video is kinda old, maybe 4-5 years.

According to the video, they estimate [up to?] 100 million dollars was stolen from slot machines using the light-wand. I don't know much about cheating, but, that figure seems very high.

Aria surveillance manager: "Late bets, that's unusual, so we look into it." LOL.


Regarding European roulette "scam"...........something like, "this form is cheating wasn't illegal". So uhh.....if it's not illegal, how is it cheating? O_O


It's sad they put card counting in the video. But, meh.

I think that figure is high as well.

As I remember, Mr D. said over 10 years he made 1 million dollars That's not very much per year concerning how profitable such a device is, especially with the risk he was talking. He could've legitimately made more than 100k a year APing in the 90's without a large bankroll.

I can only imagine how stressful doing something like this was. And now the guy is broke, he claims it's from legal fees. I call BS, he probably had a sports, Baccarat or pony(He looks like a horse bettor) addiction and never saved up a dime.

And that bill validator cheating device, I didn't even know such a thing existed, that had to be worth a fortune.. I can only assume once they found out, the casinos secretly put in something to detect anything like that.

Quote: AxelWolf

never saved up a dime.

Why would you bother to save, if you can just go get more money whenever? It's like you're expecting the well to run dry or something.

Besides, you'd have to hide it somewhere, like burying it under a rock. If it's on deposit it will surely get seized, offering no real advantage vs just going and getting more.

Quote: Dieter

Why would you bother to save, if you can just go get more money whenever? It's like you're expecting the well to run dry or something.

Besides, you'd have to hide it somewhere, like burying it under a rock. If it's on deposit it will surely get seized, offering no real advantage vs just going and getting more.

Because you might need a good attorney ?


What's wrong with hiding it under a rock?

Just go get more? How did that work out for him? If this guy assumed he would never get caught he's dumber than I though. I have to believe theres a good chance you will get caught but I have no clue. I heard they had something like this with a remote control on the light. I'm not sure how far one would have to get the light up the machine. However if someone could've incorporated something like this into a slot bucket with a remote I have to think it would be very hard for anyone to see.

I have to believe they got caught because some eagle eye surveillance guy noticed the blocking and got suspicious.

That's hilarious. Just love the sort of "documentary" that comes with a background musical score, just in case the words in the narrator's script were too big to let some folks know how to feel while getting drunk in front of the TV.

And yeah Axel, people who enjoy horses definitely look like black shadow silhouettes, with electronically modulated voices. Except for me. I was disguised as the potted plant in the corner behind you & your possee-ettes several weeks ago. Light green, fern.

Cheers.

I think a light wand was used to cheat some of the coin slots at a casino in Michigan's UP. They don't say in the article but if I remember right it was a light wand this group used to attack some old coin machines the casino use to have ( I think they were removed shortly after this story broke).

http://www.fbi.gov/detroit/press-releases/2014/sault-ste.-marie-casino-thieves-sentenced-to-prison

I am surprised this went of for so long. The casino should have been running a slot analysis report and the variance should of stuck out like a sore thumb.

Quote: DrawingDead

That's hilarious. Just love the sort of "documentary" that comes with a background musical score, just in case the words in the narrator's script were too big to let some folks know how to feel while getting drunk in front of the TV.

And yeah Axel, people who enjoy horses definitely look like black shadow silhouettes, with electronically modulated voices. Except for me. I was disguised as the potted plant in the corner behind you & your possee-ettes several weeks ago. Light green, fern.

Cheers.

FF to 42 minutes in watch to the end. Even in the silhouette you can tell what he looks like. I'm very confident I could pick him out of a line up. Rough looking looking face puffy 70s 80' hair style, mustache, average country boy wear regular old blue jeans, black jacket.

Quote: RS

It's sad they put card counting in the video. But, meh.

They had to. I was talking to a pit
guy recently about counting. He
said they know it's not legally
cheating, but the casino thinks a
counter is cheating them, nonetheless.
The player comes thru the doors to
do something he knows the casino
doesn't allow, to them that's cheating.

He's another paigowdan..

Quote: MrV

Hadn't seen this one before.

Pretty interesting, but farirly basic.

cheats

Thanks for that, spent a few hours watching a few more Youtube recommendations.

AxelWolf,

Mr D. did not have a gambling addiction of any kind. It's true he didn't save well, but not because he was a gambler. He supported 3 - 4 other people in his household at various times during his life, even towards the end when he was battling cancer.

His real name was Roderick William Dee (hence, Mr. D) and he was placed onto the Nevada List of Excluded Persons in 2013, a few years after that sequence was filmed. Rod passed away on December 20th, 2013 and was subsequently removed from the "Black Book" in 2014.

As for the bill validator, yes it existed. I have photos of the actual device used by Mr. Dee. It is still in use by a friend of his, but the spots where it can be used successfully are becoming rarer and rarer. There was a counter-measure added to some of the potentially beatable machines at some point in 2010 and 2011.

How do I know all of this? Because Rod was a dear friend and I was actually in the car with him the night we filmed that sequence with the documentary crew. He and I actually worked on 2 different documentaries about cheating in an effort to get some leniency out of a judge that was sentencing him a few weeks after one of the docs was being filmed. Rod told the truth and genuinely wanted to help stop this type of thing towards the end of his life.

Just wanted to clear the air about his having a gambling addiction.

Jason England

Quote: AxelWolf

Baccarat or pony(He looks like a horse bettor)

I thought we were working to eliminate racist type comments on this site? What exactly does a horse bettor look like? I thought my clothes I wear left over from the 70's and my cigar made me unique, not stereotyped.

Quote: AxelWolf

Because you might need a good attorney ?


What's wrong with hiding it under a rock?

Just go get more? How did that work out for him? If this guy assumed he would never get caught he's dumber than I though.

Saving for the future is a problem a lot of people have when they get a new source of significantly more income than they've ever had before (musicians, football players, slot cheats). Many just go right into "living large".

Hiding it under a rock (successfully) means picking a rock you can retrieve it from, but most other people are unlikely to retrieve it from. That takes work. Who wants to work when there is free money to be collected, and lavish spending to be done?

It's rarely that someone thinks the good run will last forever, but they often think it will last longer than it does, and that there will be a tapering off period and they'll get some warning. This often does not seem to be the case - it's there one day, and not the next.

So, how would you save a chunk of (possibly ill-gotten) gans, in a way that it won't get seized as soon as you're charged or civil asset forfeited if the fiendly neighborbood law enforcement officer doesn't like the look of your license plate frame? (Remember, it's got to be easy and quick, so as not to impinge on the partying...)

Quote: EvenBob

They had to. I was talking to a pit
guy recently about counting. He
said they know it's not legally
cheating, but the casino thinks a
counter is cheating them, nonetheless.
The player comes thru the doors to
do something he knows the casino
doesn't allow, to them that's cheating.

He's another paigowdan..

The comment about Dan aside. I agree with this completely. Most pit critters know that card counting is not illegal or cheating. But they consider it "cheating the house" anyway. They just do. No amount of logic or talking would convince them. It's just the corporate culture of casino management.

Occasionally, and this has only happened to me in AC, (where counting seems more tolerated than Vegas or other local places). I've had two separate instances of pit guys basically tell me they know I'm counting and good luck. Just keep it to a "reasonable" level. The conversation wasn't quite that simple...but that was it in a nutshell. Maybe it's because counting is explicitly legal in NJ(thank you Ken Uston). They seem more relaxed about it.

The old golden rule, "He who owns the gold rules." Casinos can tell you you're not allowed to come in wearing red suspenders. Guess what, you want be admitted wearing red suspenders. They want people to come in, have a good time and leave with a little less than what they came with. If that happens, no problemo.

lol... at 29:10 they 'explain' how counting works and they try to show cards flashing up and update the 'running count'... they don't do it correctly. Why go through the trouble of flashing cards, and not updating the running count correctly (unless they were making a cute ploy and using something other than the standard hi/low)? The RC was 9, then they showed a 2 and a J... then updated the RC to 10.

34:13... apparently the team is playing a table where blackjack pays 1:1 =P.

Quote: JasonEngland

Rod told the truth and genuinely wanted to help stop this type of thing towards the end of his life.

awfully nice of him to want to stop cheating after he made tons of money cheating.

Awfully brave of you to throw barbs at a dead guy while posting with a pseudonym.

Jason England

Quote: JasonEngland

Awfully brave of you to throw barbs at a dead guy while posting with a pseudonym.

Jason England

We all post with a handle, so that part is irrelevant. Does what he said have merit or not? Please respond to that.

Quote: Greasyjohn

We all post with a handle, so that part is irrelevant. Does what he said have merit or not? Please respond to that.

Only he really knows if he genuinely felt cheating was wrong after living the life so long.

If you watch one of the gangster docs on Netflix, they interview (I forget his first name) Franzese and he talks about murders and cons and robberies and now he doesn't do that. He tours the country doing seminars about why that lifestyle is not good.

So he seems genuine and he doesn't get into trouble.

Likewise, watch 'Mr. Untouchable' and they interview a guy who murdered while working the 70's drug syndicate. Did decades in jail and is now a community activist.

So, it is possible for people to change their criminal lifestyle. Sometimes, getting knocked on the head (going to jail) too many times just makes you see the error or your ways.

Quote: darkoz

Only he really knows if he genuinely felt cheating was wrong after living the life so long.

If you watch one of the gangster docs on Netflix, they interview (I forget his first name) Franzese and he talks about murders and cons and robberies and now he doesn't do that. He tours the country doing seminars about why that lifestyle is not good.

So he seems genuine and he doesn't get into trouble.

Likewise, watch 'Mr. Untouchable' and they interview a guy who murdered while working the 70's drug syndicate. Did decades in jail and is now a community activist.

So, it is possible for people to change their criminal lifestyle. Sometimes, getting knocked on the head (going to jail) too many times just makes you see the error or your ways.

I've seen that guy, Franzese, you're talking about. And I think I've seen just about every cheating scam program made. One I really enjoyed was on the Tran Ogranization. Another was on Tommy Charmichael.

No, we ALL don't post with a handle. Jason England is my real name and I stand behind the things I say on the internet. I've never used a "handle" online - it's always just my first and last name with or without a space between depending on the software in use.

And if you'll read what he said, you'll find that it was an opinion ("awfully nice of him...."), not a fact that could be demonstrably true or false. Regardless, it was a barb of sarcasm/douche-baggery thrown at a departed friend of mine that can't respond here. So I responded for him by calling out the guy hiding behind a fake name.

And yes, it is relevant, in the sense that I can assure you he wouldn't say it like that to my face. That speaks to the bravery issue.

Jason England

an AP should not look at a horse player with disdain because a good one plays with an advantage.

Quote: ontariodealer

an AP should not look at a horse player with disdain because a good one plays with an advantage.

Name one?

There's VERY VERY FEW. There's been a few nice angels and some guys with extra information or parimutuel arbitrage. I haven't ever meet anyone who can gain an advantage by purely handicapping horses.


It was obvious what type of horse player I was talking about. There's a few in every race and sports book they are degenerate handicappers and have little to no chance to overcome the vig. They are usually broke chasing losses with every dollar the can scrounge up

It's along the lines of beating live keno. Sure there are situations with an advantage, however few and far between.

Examples of guys I'm talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfXDw2tsfrk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_wn6-oVEVo

if you look at the final tables at the w.s.o.p, there are different people every year, the so called pro's dispatched by amatuers every year....if you look at the final tables at the world series of handicapping you will see the same faces over and over. (just one example)

Quote: ontariodealer

if you look at the final tables at the w.s.o.p, there are different people every year, the so called pro's dispatched by amatuers every year....if you look at the final tables at the world series of handicapping you will see the same faces over and over. (just one example)

I'm not sure what that has to do with betting horses.

I'm not arguing about poker. Poker is nothing like betting ponies, you're comparing apples and oranges.

my point was there are lots of professional horse players taking the money every day from the guys in your videos.

Quote: JasonEngland

AxelWolf,

Mr D. did not have a gambling addiction of any kind. It's true he didn't save well, but not because he was a gambler. He supported 3 - 4 other people in his household at various times during his life, even towards the end when he was battling cancer.

His real name was Roderick William Dee (hence, Mr. D) and he was placed onto the Nevada List of Excluded Persons in 2013, a few years after that sequence was filmed. Rod passed away on December 20th, 2013 and was subsequently removed from the "Black Book" in 2014.

As for the bill validator, yes it existed. I have photos of the actual device used by Mr. Dee. It is still in use by a friend of his, but the spots where it can be used successfully are becoming rarer and rarer. There was a counter-measure added to some of the potentially beatable machines at some point in 2010 and 2011.

How do I know all of this? Because Rod was a dear friend and I was actually in the car with him the night we filmed that sequence with the documentary crew. He and I actually worked on 2 different documentaries about cheating in an effort to get some leniency out of a judge that was sentencing him a few weeks after one of the docs was being filmed. Rod told the truth and genuinely wanted to help stop this type of thing towards the end of his life.

Just wanted to clear the air about his having a gambling addiction.

Jason England

Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry to hear your friend passed. I wasn't passing judgment on what he was doing. I'm just can't comprehend how someone could have such a lucrative device with the balls to use it for 10 years but not save anything. However I understand if he had medical problems and took care of family.

Calling Djatc out for his opinion on the subject seems out of line considering the seriousness of this crime and the length of time he committed to it. There's ZERO GREY AREA here. It's not like he made a foolish mistake when he was younger and didn't know he was blatantly cheating. DJs Post was actually mild compared to what 90% of the forum members are thinking and would probably say. Phil Ivey got blasted and he wasn't cheating IMO.

Well this little race vs. poker vs. whatever-someone-wishes-to-think-is-supposedly-superior-to-something-else thoroughly irrelevant sidebar injected here could get "interesting" in the Chinese proverb sense of the term, and I'd rather not stick around for it if it does. What is different, whether one chooses to think it is good or not, is that those are the two things in the casino, and the only two, that have one significant very fundamental thing in common: they do not involve players betting against the house. They involve me betting against you, and in both those two cases and only those two the casino or track has no stake whatsoever in who gets the pot or the pari-mutual pool.

Are coupon clippers and promo chasers more attractive individuals of notably better character than others? Good luck selling that. Are there gambling games of any sort anywhere that do not have unsavory chronic degenerates attached to them? I don't think so. And in the particular cases of both poker and pari-mutual race wagering, I certainly hope there's never of shortage of them in the pot or the pool. Happily to me, in the case of a pari-mutual pool, I don't have to rub elbows with and smell or hear the prattle of any particular poker/slot/VP/horse/craps/dog/roulette/pai-gow or whatever flavor of degen that I don't care to when and if I don't care to, and neither does anybody else, since they don't need to be present or even in the same time zone for me to bet against their level of diligence, knowledge, emotional maturity and skill at it from where I choose to be while I do it.

For the rest, I choose to mostly bet with the house through selectively owning pieces of some of them through equity shares, bonds, and some other forms of publicly traded securities in them. But you go ahead and do what makes you happy and feel special.

Quote: AxelWolf

Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry to hear your friend passed. I wasn't passing judgment on what he was doing. I'm just can't comprehend how someone could have such a lucrative device with the balls to use it for 10 years but not save anything. However I understand if he had medical problems and took care of family.

Calling Djatc out for his opinion on the subject seems out of line considering the seriousness of this crime and the length of time he committed to it. There's ZERO GREY AREA here. It's not like he made a foolish mistake when he was younger and didn't know he was blatantly cheating. DJs Post was actually mild compared to what 90% of the forum members are thinking and would probably say. Phil Ivey got blasted and he wasn't cheating IMO.

AxelWolf,

I agree with you - it's mind boggling that he had a device that allowed him to make $500 - 1000 dollars per day in the coin-op days (with the light-wand and later the "kickstand" devices) and upwards of $1000 in 5 minutes once he had the device that beat the bill validator, and yet he lived on about $40,000 per year and fed 3 (and occasionally 4) other people out of that money.

He lived in an approximately 1000 sq ft rental property, drove cars that never worked properly, and rarely had 2 nickels to rub together. You and I find this scenario preposterous because we're looking at it from the point of view of what we would do if we had these devices, the guts to use them and larceny in our hearts. I'll tell you what I would do if I met those three criteria (I don't, by the way): I'd get every penny I could from every machine in town in a 2-week period and then move to Tahiiti and that would be the end of it. You'd probably do something similar.

But here's the thing, Rod wasn't like that. As he said many times when I'd ask him why he didn't just hit the industry for a huge score and be done, "Because I wasn't greedy." He meant it. Rod didn't cheat for fast cars, flashy jewelry and material things. He cheated to survive. It's basically the only job he knew and had done it his entire life. (He broke in at the Dunes in the late 70s kicking in coolers for the guys in charge - later moved to the Stardust and did the same thing.) Although he would sometimes exaggerate for the cameras how much money he'd stolen from the machines over the years, privately he and I estimated that it was a lot closer to $500,000 - 600,000 over a 12-year span - and some of that money was split with blockers and partners, or paid back "up the chain" to the guy who had built and sold him the device in the first place.

Rod was a career criminal for sure - I never claimed otherwise nor do I defend his actions. The thing is...he never tried to defend his actions either. He knew they were wrong and on many occasions would lament the fact that he couldn't do what he really wanted to do for a living: magic shows. As it turned out, Rod was one of the finest card handlers in the world and could do amazing things with a deck of cards for pure entertainment. He actually worked a handful of shows like this over the years and was genuinely good at it, but couldn't do it frequently enough to make a living.

So, while I don't condone his actions over the years, I know for a fact that he was genuinely sorry for the damage he'd done and the pain he'd caused people. When I see someone that doesn't even have the guts to sign his real name (a personal pet peeve of mine in online forums - I'm a member of over a dozen) taking shots at Rod's sincerity, it gets to me. So I fired back and will continue to do so to protect the memory of a good guy who did some bad things.

Jason England

Quote: JasonEngland

AxelWolf,

I agree with you - it's mind boggling that he had a device that allowed him to make $500 - 1000 dollars per day in the coin-op days (with the light-wand and later the "kickstand" devices) and upwards of $1000 in 5 minutes once he had the device that beat the bill validator, and yet he lived on about $40,000 per year and fed 3 (and occasionally 4) other people out of that money.

He lived in an approximately 1000 sq ft rental property, drove cars that never worked properly, and rarely had 2 nickels to rub together. You and I find this scenario preposterous because we're looking at it from the point of view of what we would do if we had these devices, the guts to use them and larceny in our hearts. I'll tell you what I would do if I met those three criteria (I don't, by the way): I'd get every penny I could from every machine in town in a 2-week period and then move to Tahiiti and that would be the end of it. You'd probably do something similar.

But here's the thing, Rod wasn't like that. As he said many times when I'd ask him why he didn't just hit the industry for a huge score and be done, "Because I wasn't greedy." He meant it. Rod didn't cheat for fast cars, flashy jewelry and material things. He cheated to survive. It's basically the only job he knew and had done it his entire life. (He broke in at the Dunes in the late 70s kicking in coolers for the guys in charge - later moved to the Stardust and did the same thing.) Although he would sometimes exaggerate for the cameras how much money he'd stolen from the machines over the years, privately he and I estimated that it was a lot closer to $500,000 - 600,000 over a 12-year span - and some of that money was split with blockers and partners, or paid back "up the chain" to the guy who had built and sold him the device in the first place.

Rod was a career criminal for sure - I never claimed otherwise nor do I defend his actions. The thing is...he never tried to defend his actions either. He knew they were wrong and on many occasions would lament the fact that he couldn't do what he really wanted to do for a living: magic shows. As it turned out, Rod was one of the finest card handlers in the world and could do amazing things with a deck of cards for pure entertainment. He actually worked a handful of shows like this over the years and was genuinely good at it, but couldn't do it frequently enough to make a living.

So, while I don't condone his actions over the years, I know for a fact that he was genuinely sorry for the damage he'd done and the pain he'd caused people. When I see someone that doesn't even have the guts to sign his real name (a personal pet peeve of mine in online forums - I'm a member of over a dozen) taking shots at Rod's sincerity, it gets to me. So I fired back and will continue to do so to protect the memory of a good guy who did some bad things.

Jason England

I'm sure 80 % of the members don't use their names on here. Even the owner doesn't. None of the mods do, respected doctors and attorneys don't.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, however you may have a reason to have your real name exposed. For instance a good writer may want his name out there. An AP, on this forum absolutely wouldn't want that (Djatc is an AP). That's a legitimate reason. Anyone talking about jackpots and money wouldn't want there names exposed, especially since this is a gambling forum. Gambling attracts cheats and thieves. People have had problems in RL that started on forums.

Even someone not an AP wouldn't want there name exposed online. I actually think its foolish to do so unless the reward is greater than the risk and for most people that's not the case. Is it brave or careless?

Quote: AxelWolf

Even someone not an AP wouldn't want there name exposed online. I actually think its foolish to do so unless the reward is greater than the risk and for most people that's not the case. Is it brave or careless?

I don't even give out my full name in person, most of the time - just my first name (and sometimes, not the real one).

I surely don't go walking around in bars with a my full name and street address on a nametag.

I'm not looking for particularly any more privacy online than I expect in a bar that is new to me... but with the ease of an online search and the uniqueness of my legal name, I'm not going to plaster it on every post I make.

Quote:

When I see someone that doesn't even have the guts to sign his real name (a personal pet peeve of mine in online forums - I'm a member of over a dozen) taking shots at Rod's sincerity, it gets to me.

Sounds like a variation on the old "ad hominem" attack, i.e. assault the individual, not their message.

It's an old rhetorical convention used to deflect.

Guys it's really simple: djatc insulted my friend by alluding to a lack of sincerity on Rod's part with regard to his regret for all the damage he'd done.

I took umbrage and responded with an equally snide comment pointing out how easy it is to insult people when you have no personal accountability for your statements at risk.

That's it. It's over and done. If djatc wants to chime in and apologize to me for the insult, fine. If not, fine.

Jason England

PS: AxelWolf, I happen to do some writing and I'm a minor public figure in the magic world. But that has nothing to do with my disdain for online pseudonyms. I never used them and I joined my first internet forum in 1997. May have even been on some old Internet Relay Chat's before that - using my real name. While some people have legitimate reasons to use them, especially in a forum devoted to gambling and full of APs - I find that all too often they're just used as an online mask to avoid accountability. (A quick perusal of the YouTube comments section will show you exactly what I'm talking about.)

In short, I understand the reasons for having them, but when I'm pissed off it's just tough for me to see past someone saying something mean and snarky and not having the balls to sign their name to it. I'm no longer pissed off about it - I did my duty to my friend by coming to his defense (even if I didn't do a very good job of it) and that's the end of it.

Jason, you did a fine job defending your friend just remember there really isn't anybody on here worth the bother.

Quote: JasonEngland

Guys it's really simple: djatc insulted my friend by alluding to a lack of sincerity on Rod's part with regard to his regret for all the damage he'd done.

I took umbrage and responded with an equally snide comment pointing out how easy it is to insult people when you have no personal accountability for your statements at risk.

That's it. It's over and done. If djatc wants to chime in and apologize to me for the insult, fine. If not, fine.

Jason England

PS: AxelWolf, I happen to do some writing and I'm a minor public figure in the magic world. But that has nothing to do with my disdain for online pseudonyms. I never used them and I joined my first internet forum in 1997. May have even been on some old Internet Relay Chat's before that - using my real name. While some people have legitimate reasons to use them, especially in a forum devoted to gambling and full of APs - I find that all too often they're just used as an online mask to avoid accountability. (A quick perusal of the YouTube comments section will show you exactly what I'm talking about.)

In short, I understand the reasons for having them, but when I'm pissed off it's just tough for me to see past someone saying something mean and snarky and not having the balls to sign their name to it. I'm no longer pissed off about it - I did my duty to my friend by coming to his defense (even if I didn't do a very good job of it) and that's the end of it.

Remember your friend MR. D hid his Identity in that video.


I can assure you Djatc in a real person whose not hiding his name for the purpose of trolling or avoiding accountability.

Had it been anybody other than your friend, I have a feeling you wouldn't have felt his comment to be that out of line. You took it to personally. I don't think his comment was something most people weren't thinking.

He hasn't meet your friend and he may have judged him on some of the facts presented and what he seen and heard in the video. You may be doing the same thing with Dj after only seeing one comment.

I never met his friend, and if I did I probably wouldn't shake his hand.

WGAS if, at the end of his life, he had an epiphany and regretted cheating casinos as his vocation / avocation during his working years?

The guy was a dyed in the wool, unrepentant cheat, at least til he realized his days were numbered.

Attempting to preserve some shred of respect for his memory has failed; it's like trying to build goodwill for Hitler by remarking how at the end he saved the taxpayers the cost of a trial by killing himself.

Quote: AxelWolf

Remember your friend MR. D hid his Identity in that video.


I can assure you Djatc in a real person whose not hiding his name for the purpose of trolling or avoiding accountability.

Had it been anybody other than your friend, I have a feeling you wouldn't have felt his comment to be that out of line. You took it to personally. I don't think his comment was something most people weren't thinking.

He hasn't meet your friend and he may have judged him on some of the facts presented and what he seen and heard in the video. You may be doing the same thing with Dj after only seeing one comment.

AxelWolf,

You seem like a level-headed guy. More level-headed than I was when I fired back at Djatc. I apologize for derailing this thread like that.

You're right - I did take it personally, because it was an attack (no matter how trivial) on a friend of mine. If Rod had been able to defend himself I probably wouldn't have stepped in at all. It's the "kicking a guy when he'd down" (or in this case, dead) element that got under my skin.

The thing about Rod is this: I agree with everyone here that says his actions over the years were despicable. What I don't agree with is petty attempts to diminish a man's honest words just because of actions he'd done in his past. I won't defend Rod's crimes (nor could he). But I will defend the veracity of his statements about being sorry for what he'd done, because I was there, had many conversations about the subject with him, helped him pay restitution when he went to jail for his crimes and know first-hand that his sorrow was genuine. That's worth defending in my book.

As I said, I'm over it and harbor no ill-feelings towards anyone.

Incidentally, being filmed in silhouette wasn't Rod's idea. It was done (and is often done) by the producers of those types of television shows to make them seem "sexier" somehow. It's not an ineffective technique, but it's a bit tired in my opinion, having worked on several of those expose shows in the past.

Quote: MrV

Attempting to preserve some shred of respect for his memory has failed; it's like trying to build goodwill for Hitler by remarking how at the end he saved the taxpayers the cost of a trial by killing himself.

MrV, are you familiar with Godwin's Law by any chance? If not, here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Pay particular attention to the second sentence under the "Corollaries and Usage" heading.

Jason

Quote:

MrV, are you familiar with Godwin's Law by any chance?

You bet.